Major overlooked issue for years by SI!!!!

[harrystroe]

I am newly promoted, declared official by winning the league YET, the AI still will not recognize my promotion and despite my next budget is set I simply can not sign players because the AI still keep me in the same league until 1st of July and all the players will not declare their interests towards joining my team because "you will need to promote first" .

 

This issue was overlooked since 2015 by SI although a simple fact that a new promoted team may and should have access towards all the football players to be able to sign them (acknowledging the fact that I am promoted in the superior league hence players should desire to sign), but AI and game mechanic will not allow it since 1st of July (because AI and game mechanic still sees me in the same league I just promote from). Further in this matter, it will let you only maximum 2 3 weeks to operate on a very fast pace on the transfer market when finally!!!!!!! the AI recognize you as promoted to a superior league, and the players may or desire to sign contracts with my team, by this time many players already sign contracts with any other team in the new promoted league.

 

I genuinely believe that this is a major issue that has been in the game for years but no one seems to understand that once you are declared promoted, the AI should recognize you already being part of the new promoted league, hence to operate your transfers according to the league you were promoted not in the same bracket to the league from you just promote.

 

Hope I was very explicit to this quite abnormal and totally out of reality game-wise issue.

 

Edited January 14, 2023 by harrystroe

[FrazT]

There is a default season change-over date set in the game ( usually 30/6) and I suspect that the coding changes needed to adjust this just for teams whose circumstances change prior to that date would be considerable and impractical. 

[jcp1417]

5 hours ago, FrazT said:

There is a default season change-over date set in the game ( usually 30/6) and I suspect that the coding changes needed to adjust this just for teams whose circumstances change prior to that date would be considerable and impractical. 

That is exactly what the OP said, just re-worded.

[jlboybeamer]

7 hours ago, FrazT said:

There is a default season change-over date set in the game ( usually 30/6) and I suspect that the coding changes needed to adjust this just for teams whose circumstances change prior to that date would be considerable and impractical. 

So basically don’t want to do the work to implement this needed change/fix ? 

Nice reply

[harrystroe]

9 hours ago, FrazT said:

There is a default season change-over date set in the game ( usually 30/6) and I suspect that the coding changes needed to adjust this just for teams whose circumstances change prior to that date would be considerable and impractical. 

So you are telling me that in real life football market this thing is happening but SI sees it as impractical and a considerable change? 

Well than I have to ask from which sources SI take all these information how transfer market works because is very visible their sources are not reliable and out of any common sense. 

All over the world teams are promoted in any league and they are able to do whatever transfer they need or want at any given time once they are officially declared promoted, but only SI according to you believe that this is impracticable and not worth it to stick with realities.

[Michael Sant]

Well FrazT, as capable as he is, isn't responsible for the development of the game. I'm not a coder/developer myself despite working for SI, but there is a lot to consider before changes would/could be made in this area. 

It's not something we're ignorant of, and hopefully this can be taken in the good faith its intended. Impractical can mean a lot of things, it may be perfectly possible for it to be changed to work a certain way, but only the top X% of players would have a PC capable of running that level of processing for example. So that may mean that solution is impractical. Impractical is never meaning "its not worth spending 5 minutes on this".

Playing a save this year as Brackley Town its certainly an issue I've run into myself with promotions quickly up the leagues. 

[chipspice1974]

Yep good point. Missed out on players myself when everyone knows I’m a premiership club after winning promotion but the game won’t recognise it till end June. Not very realistic is it.

[Mst82]

What about when you win the league but never get to see your side lift the trophy - that always bugs me?
 

If you win the league at a canter it doesn’t seem to be an issue, but if it’s tight at the top and you clinch it late on, you don’t actually see the trophy presentation. Happens year after year too. 

[Etebaer]

Well, in germany my experience is that around 16th to 19th of June the transition into the new season happens, the budget ist usually already updatet at that time, you get your new league schedule and be recognized as promoted/relegated team and you can make contracts for the coming season while the transfermarket is still ~2weeks closed.

Dont know if it is different in other leagues but it appears to me as not a problem in the way it works as i described.

Leagues with a different schedule may have a problem?

[jcp1417]

7 hours ago, Michael Sant said:

it may be perfectly possible for it to be changed to work a certain way, but only the top X% of players would have a PC capable of running that level of processing for example. So that may mean that solution is impractical. Impractical is never meaning "its not worth spending 5 minutes on this".

Terrible example. You cannot think we are stupid enough to accept that the reason why this change is not practical is because it would require a much better processor. 

This is a state-based change we're talking about. it doesn't take much processing power at all to simply flip a switch. 

[Pasonen]

14 minutes ago, jcp1417 said:

Terrible example. You cannot think we are stupid enough to accept that the reason why this change is not practical is because it would require a much better processor. 

This is a state-based change we're talking about. it doesn't take much processing power at all to simply flip a switch. 

But it wasn't THE reason what Sant gave but answer to open perspective of people thinking this change. Anyway this is the reason it's better posting suggestions to right section of forum which is

https://community.sigames.com/forums/forum/353-football-manager-feature-requests-pcmac/

 

[jcp1417]

12 minutes ago, Pasonen said:

But it wasn't THE reason what Sant gave but answer to open perspective of people thinking this change. Anyway this is the reason it's better posting suggestions to right section of forum which is

https://community.sigames.com/forums/forum/353-football-manager-feature-requests-pcmac/

 

SI, as a multi million dollar company, shouldn't need its customers to post suggestions to fix fundamental flaws within the game. This is not a feature request, it’s a bug. It shouldn’t need to be posted to the bug forum either because if anyone on the dev team actually plays the game, they would know this. 

[gunnerfan]

6 hours ago, jcp1417 said:

SI, as a multi million dollar company, shouldn't need its customers to post suggestions to fix fundamental flaws within the game. This is not a feature request, it’s a bug. It shouldn’t need to be posted to the bug forum either because if anyone on the dev team actually plays the game, they would know this. 

It doesn’t need to be posted in the Bugs Forum because it’s already known. The above posts make it clear that the developers are aware of it, but  it clearly isn’t as simple to resolve as some posters here seem to think. If they can resolve it in a way that doesn’t either put the game out of reach for a large percentage of users or make the game more difficult to play, I’m sure it will be. In the meantime, there’s always the IGE.

[forameuss]

22 hours ago, jcp1417 said:

SI, as a multi million dollar company, shouldn't need its customers to post suggestions to fix fundamental flaws within the game. This is not a feature request, it’s a bug. It shouldn’t need to be posted to the bug forum either because if anyone on the dev team actually plays the game, they would know this. 

No, it's not. It would be a bug if this wasn't working exactly as it is designed to.  It's not optimal, obviously, but it makes sense why there's a set date when the season ticks around as computationally that is simpler.  So it's working as planned, whether that plan is optimal or not.

[jcp1417]

3 hours ago, forameuss said:

No, it's not. It would be a bug if this wasn't working exactly as it is designed to.  It's not optimal, obviously, but it makes sense why there's a set date when the season ticks around as computationally that is simpler.  So it's working as planned, whether that plan is optimal or not.

fair point. either way, it needs fixed and it's insane for anyone to explain that it's not fixed because it would put a strain on processing

[GuitarMan]

Please stick to the topic - if this continues on the current trend of "stupid" and "insane" we will have to close the thread. 

For what it's worth, like @Michael Sant above - I have been affected by this when playing myself also. Equally like Michael and Frazt I am not responsible for developing the game, so don't know the ins and outs of why this hasn't happened yet. I do think there is merit to discussion around this however - lets make sure we don't get to far from the topic

 

 

[Sunstrikuuu]

Where it gets really frustrating is that certain things seem to update *before* the season ends.  I've been sacked for not achieving promotion or avoiding relegation when I still have a playoff to play.  I've lost playoff promotion finals because they squad didn't realize the season wasn't over yet and got upset they hadn't been promoted.

I'm sympathetic to 'it's hard to fix', but that can't be a reason not to change it. 

[Neil Brock]

It does update throughout the season and as a team is more likely and seals promotion there will be a team reputation boost which will allow the interest of players to increase. You'll notice a lot more players are interested as it becomes more likely - that pool of players increases, plus that your own players are likely to become more demanding when it comes to contract extensions etc.

However as stated above, there is a 'season update day' in game (where the leaderboard appears) which does additional calculations across the entire game. This has to happen at some point and only certain elements of the calculations can be done on a granular basis. It is and has been a discussion point internally for a long time and where we can, we do look to review and improve how this works. 

[Maviarab]

I personally fail to see how a piece of code can possibly make it unplayable for the majority of players.  We're not talking processing power here or graphics prowess...it's code.

LIke in the majority of code, whatever form that takes, can a simple repeating flag not be implemented at the end of the season (rather than the start of the next one)...has x won promotion?  If no do nothing, if yes give x boost and trigger flag for next highest league?

Now I admit I don't know how FM is coded but this would seem the simplest solution/fix which would benefit everyone and affect (negatively) no one.

Edited January 17, 2023 by Maviarab

[forameuss]

If you have to ask "is it not as simple as", invariably it is not as simple as that.  If it was, they would have already done it, not, as they said in the post above, still be looking for an optimal solution.

[Maviarab]

On 17/01/2023 at 13:10, forameuss said:

If you have to ask "is it not as simple as", invariably it is not as simple as that.  If it was, they would have already done it, not, as they said in the post above, still be looking for an optimal solution.

There are lots of things they 'could have done' over the last 10 years that we're still waiting for.  The fact is, yes/no code flags do exists in FM for many many things already, sooo...

[forameuss]

Generous use of the word "fact" there in a post like that.  The only fact is that someone who does have access to people who would know these things for a fact, has said that they know things aren't perfect, and they're yet to find a way to solve it properly.  But it also doesn't take a look at the code to assume with a fair degree of certainty that the solution isn't a "yes/no code flag".  

[enigmatic]

tbf this one has improved quite a bit in recent versions: you get a promotion-sized transfer budget and reputation boost as soon as you secure promotion which is better than waiting until season end

[callamity]

On 17/01/2023 at 13:07, Maviarab said:

I personally fail to see how a piece of code can possibly make it unplayable for the majority of players.  We're not talking processing power here or graphics prowess...it's code.

LIke in the majority of code, whatever form that takes, can a simple repeating flag not be implemented at the end of the season (rather than the start of the next one)...has x won promotion?  If no do nothing, if yes give x boost and trigger flag for next highest league?

Now I admit I don't know how FM is coded but this would seem the simplest solution/fix which would benefit everyone and affect (negatively) no one.

Its code that requires a recalculation across the board of reputation and other things. This calculation requires processing power and if it was to happen everytime a club put points on the board the majority of laptops would freeze and not be able to process the game.  Even if it was included from game week 30 for example the processing time every week would most likely make the game crash on a budget to mid market 3 year old or older laptop.

[Maviarab]

On 18/01/2023 at 17:30, callamity said:

Its code that requires a recalculation across the board of reputation and other things. This calculation requires processing power and if it was to happen everytime a club put points on the board the majority of laptops would freeze and not be able to process the game.  Even if it was included from game week 30 for example the processing time every week would most likely make the game crash on a budget to mid market 3 year old or older laptop.

Lol...sure.  My 10 year old PC handles all FM's calculations just fine.  Please, stop it.

It can be done ion the very final day of the season (whatever day that is depending on league)...one calculation for all teams in league.  That's not killing anyones machine regardless of how old/bad it is.

 

Edited January 19, 2023 by Maviarab

[callamity]

13 hours ago, Maviarab said:

Lol...sure.  My 10 year old PC handles all FM's calculations just fine.  Please, stop it.

It can be done ion the very final day of the season (whatever day that is depending on league)...one calculation for all teams in league.  That's not killing anyones machine regardless of how old/bad it is.

 

Thats not what you are asking for