Head of Youth Development attributes

[Ghost77]

Hi managers,

I would like to ask you how do you approach your HOYD attributes. I have a Model Professional with 18 at Working with Youngsters. But he has only 9 at Judging PA and 13 at Judging PP, which of course isn't very good (and I am a PL club).

Would you personally let him go and find someone with better attributes, but worse personality? Or would you give him time?
He have not produced many good youngsters in first two years, but so haven't HOYDs with better attributes in my previous saves, so I am bit on the fence here.

AND! If you have some really good HOYDs, please use this thread to share them. It would be much appreciated.

Cheers!

[XaW]

The "official" word I've gathered about HoYD is this:

Quote

Head of Youth Development (HoYD)
The club’s HoYD is responsible for bringing Newgens into the club. He will influence what “type” of players are selected and can partially or fully pass on his personality to some of these Newgens. The “type” of players selected refers to a player’s position and style, for instance a HoYD with a preferred 4-5-1 formation and a Technical Coaching Style may produce more technically styled midfielders than another HoYD.
The HoYD will also influence the rare “freak” or exceptional Newgens that come through, modifying their ability and style.
This role is filled by the HoYD by default, however if none is employed whichever staff member is set to be responsible for youth development will fill this role.

My personal approach is:

1. Personality (Because this impacts players and professionality is the most important for development. I prefer Model Citizen and Perfectionists, then Resolute, Model Professional, and Professional).
2. Formation & Tactical Style (that fits my tactical approach since if use IFs out wide, I don't need out and out wingers for example)
3. Attributes (Determination, Working with youngsters and judging abilities)

Also, remember that changing HoYD can take years to impact the coming players. The HoYD is a long-term impact on future newgens. If I remember correctly it's about 3 years BEFORE they actually come through an intake (don't quote me on that one though).

[Brother Ben]

Correct me if i'm wrong but isn't the Judging Player Ability/Potential only useful for scouts and your assistant Manager?  I'm pretty sure it has no influence on youth intakes.

[Ghost77]

1 hour ago, XaW said:

My personal approach is:

Thanks!

Would you keep this one at Nottingham Forest?

Also do you have any good HOYD to share (at the start of the game)?

[Hovis Dexter]

28 minutes ago, Brother Ben said:

Correct me if i'm wrong but isn't the Judging Player Ability/Potential only useful for scouts and your assistant Manager?  I'm pretty sure it has no influence on youth intakes.

I would have thought that the HoYD is the person who makes the final decision on who to promote from, say, the U10s to U12s and so on and also the person who makes the final decision on who to invite to play for these children's teams and as such would need good JPA / JPP attributes.

Edited January 16, 2023 by Hovis Dexter

[Ghost77]

32 minutes ago, Brother Ben said:

Correct me if i'm wrong but isn't the Judging Player Ability/Potential only useful for scouts and your assistant Manager?  I'm pretty sure it has no influence on youth intakes.

As far as my knowledge goes, it is important as he is selecting the new candidates for the youth team. Also as you can see in the screenshot the game itself is highlighting the important attributes for HOYD.

[john1]

 

I always go for him on any save, He got model citizen personality.

 

[Brother Ben]

16 minutes ago, Ghost77 said:

As far as my knowledge goes, it is important as he is selecting the new candidates for the youth team. Also as you can see in the screenshot the game itself is highlighting the important attributes for HOYD.

No i'm pretty sure the judging attributes is just for players you can see in game.

I'm aware it highlights them but I don't think they make any difference prior to the intake.

Anyone able to confirm?

[HUNT3R]

9 minutes ago, Brother Ben said:

No i'm pretty sure the judging attributes is just for players you can see in game.

I'm aware it highlights them but I don't think they make any difference prior to the intake.

Anyone able to confirm?

Hopefully that helps. I'm sure there are more posts, but I couldn't find them when I did a quick search.

[Brother Ben]

24 minutes ago, HUNT3R said:

Hopefully that helps. I'm sure there are more posts, but I couldn't find them when I did a quick search.

So I was right, kind of  .  Maybe.

For me its all about personality as I only want him to bring through youth.  I don't want him scouting.

[HUNT3R]

5 minutes ago, Brother Ben said:

For me its all about personality as I only want him to bring through youth.  I don't want him scouting.

I value attributes far more, because of the fact that he influences the rare freak newgen coming through. I can improve an average or decent personality. I cannot increase a newgen's potential later! Obviously though, I don't hire HoYD's with bad personalities. 

[Brother Ben]

1 hour ago, HUNT3R said:

I value attributes far more, because of the fact that he influences the rare freak newgen coming through. I can improve an average or decent personality. I cannot increase a newgen's potential later! Obviously though, I don't hire HoYD's with bad personalities. 

Fair.  To be honest i'm at such a low level that I usually have to take what I can get and always in the order @XaW mentions above

Edited January 16, 2023 by Brother Ben

[rsihn]

Something that hasn't been mentioned is your HOYD's coaching style which should be viewed as fairly important as it dictates the type of players your academy will produce.  This will  sometimes come up in the email on intake day with a blurb about how your HOYD has influenced the personalities of some of the players and his "xxx" training style has rubbed off on them.   Training styles include General, Fitness, Attacking, Defending, Mental, Tactical, and Technical.  Tactical training style offers no unique benefit and should be considered the same as General for the purposes of influencing the intake players.  All of the other training styles will offer a defined template for the attribute distribution for the intake players though.  This is quite important as you likely don't want a bunch of the physically biased players that a HOYD with a Fitness training style would produce if you are playing tiki-taka, for example, but you probably would prefer a HOYD with a Mental or Technical training style. 

You can add a training style column to your staff view pages to be able to easily discern this information. 

You should probably also take a look at the staff attribute weighting chart in the link below as it shows that despite SI only highlighting "the most important stats" for a HOYD, the game engine seems to view lots of other stats as being quite important for the role as evidenced by how heavily the game weights them.  

 

[Rashidi]

On 16/01/2023 at 21:14, HUNT3R said:

I value attributes far more, because of the fact that he influences the rare freak newgen coming through. I can improve an average or decent personality. I cannot increase a newgen's potential later! Obviously though, I don't hire HoYD's with bad personalities. 

That is true, if you get a HOYD with a great personality with great attributes and plays your preferred formation. He is the gold standard. Then he impacts the freaks basically the outliers all the 5 stars.

You could get a model citizen youth with good personalities , if your HOYD has a great personality. However, if the HOYDs attributes are poor, then the youth could have bang average attributes. I am more driven towards getting HOYDs with great personalities and who play the system I want. Then I make sure the rest of my U19 staff have great personalities. Never forget the HOYD is just one part of the youth coaching setup, not the only part. I am more keen getting all youth coach with  good personalities who can play my system. When intakes happen, and i get a decent intake I don't need to worry about mentoring them, which in latter versions of FM is more hit and miss. Players with great personalities can be easier to train, but ultimately it boils down to how people manage their game and training time.

@rsihnCoaching style is a descriptor for the aggregate of all attributes, useful for people who play attributeless saves. Ultimately it tells you information you already know if you can see their attributes. People also make the mistake of assuming its all about the attributes of the coaching staff, there are other factors too, and two which are beyond your control.

[DMVian]

If my HOYD doesn't manage the U18 or B team, does working with youngsters matter?

I like working in smaller leagues where even multiple good years in a row and begging for staff wage increases still doesn't let you sign well rounded HOYD. I usually punt HOYD and focus on personality, then formation, then judging ability. Then after that youth.

I have thought about being less focused on determination and personality. It isn't to hard to find youth coaches with good personalities and I think (someone can confirm) if your club has a determined personality and your youth coaches are determined, youngster will naturally slowly improve even before you can put them in mentor groups or fine them ruthlessly. In my U18, I also keep around lesser prospects with no shot at being first teamers but have great personalities to rub off on them.