Average positions. Game v Real life

[SimonHoddle]

I’ve noticed recently that average positions in FM don’t really reflect average positions IRL. see examples below. One is FM Spurs v Man C. The other is real life. 
the game version basically identically reflects the tactics. The real life version shows v interesting gaps and positioning to be exploited. IRL it appears spurs are playing a 2-3-4-1 formation and ( it would be Pep) City are playing 2-3-1-1-2-1!
if average positions are just a replica of tactics they are redundant. Matches follow much more different patterns and I think FM should reflect this.

 

[XaW]

Well, that will depend on your roles and the flow of the game. I play a 4-5-1 DM Wide

But for my last match this was my average position.

So for me, they are not like at all, it looks more like a 4-2-3-1, and that's because of how the roles and player instructions work. For formation is how players structure themselves without the ball, so if you have the ball very little your average positions will look more like your formation than if you have the ball a lot. And Man City tend to have the ball alot...

[enigmatic]

They look pretty similar to me tbh, considering we're talking about different games with different lineups and tactics and the average position isn't necessarily calculated in exactly the same way. Spurs play with more aggressive fullbacks and City have their wingers cut in or swap wings more and cover their left back more, but it's not like they always do this.

Your pitch map is from 2016(!), when Spurs were managed by Poch, Son started up front with Dele Alli behind him for Spurs and City had a Fernando/Fernandinho midfield combo with David Silva puling all the strings in front

 

Here's the pitch map from a different game a while ago with different shapes

[SimonHoddle]

Yes but I don’t see that replicated in the game. The time of the real life match I’ve copied and pasted is irrelevant haha. It’s the only one I could find.

[SimonHoddle]

7 hours ago, XaW said:

Well, that will depend on your roles and the flow of the game. I play a 4-5-1 DM Wide

But for my last match this was my average position.

So for me, they are not like at all, it looks more like a 4-2-3-1, and that's because of how the roles and player instructions work. For formation is how players structure themselves without the ball, so if you have the ball very little your average positions will look more like your formation than if you have the ball a lot. And Man City tend to have the ball alot...

Which is what I want to see.

I play a fluid system but every position analysis screen I look at exactly replicates my and opposition tactic. 

I wonder if it’s another Touch anomaly?

Edited February 18, 2023 by SimonHoddle

[XaW]

14 minutes ago, SimonHoddle said:

Which is what I want to see.

I play a fluid system but every position analysis screen I look at exactly replicates my and opposition tactic. 

I wonder if it’s another Touch anomaly?

I can't say as I haven't played Touch much. Report it as a potential bug and let SI look at it. It seems to work in the full game at least.

[SimonHoddle]

24 minutes ago, XaW said:

I can't say as I haven't played Touch much. Report it as a potential bug and let SI look at it. It seems to work in the full game at least.

Will do. TY

[Lord Rowell]

On 18/02/2023 at 10:21, SimonHoddle said:

 

Just on the IRL average positions above, a few things.

- When is this taken from(?) as those squad numbers don't correlate to Man City's present squad numbers

https://www.mancity.com/players/mens

- 7 and 15 very narrow, probably in-game Pep switched them. So if you play LHS first half, RHS 2nd half it'll calculate a central average position

- If Ake was no. 6 as he is this season, he's likely played LB/WB and CB at different periods, again distorting the average position

Average positions in a single match need to be interpreted in context, especially with a tinkerer like Guardiola.

Edited February 19, 2023 by Lord Rowell
Messed up copying and pasting!

[SimonHoddle]

It’s taken from 2016 but tbh it can be taken from anytime. It’s just one I could find on Google. 
 

I first started thinking about it when spurs beat city recently. They put average positions up on the screen and they bore absolutely no obvious relation to tactics. Whereas in my game, average positions are always identical to tactics, for me and opponent. It’s like they’re irrelevant as you just look at opponents tactics screen to work out the gaps. Very unrealistic 

[DarJ]

The biggest difference is that the average position are not calculated the same way then there is the fact that IRL players are free to move and roam around depending on who the manager is but in FM the movement is predictable once you see the roles and player trait and they will always make the same type of movement. You can even see an example of it in the screenshot you provided; the back line is very recognizable because generally defenders don't tend to roam around like midfielders and strikers 

[SimonHoddle]

17 minutes ago, DarJ said:

The biggest difference is that the average position are not calculated the same way then there is the fact that IRL players are free to move and roam around depending on who the manager is but in FM the movement is predictable once you see the roles and player trait and they will always make the same type of movement. You can even see an example of it in the screenshot you provided; the back line is very recognizable because generally defenders don't tend to roam around like midfielders and strikers 

Cheers! That explains