Asymmetric formations - cheating or genius?

[bielsadidnothingwrong]

Full disclosure, I just want a conversation, I don’t have a strong opinion either way about how anyone plays their game. However, I personally have never been able to use asymmetric tactics because the AI never do (unless they’re down a player, and even then) and it feels like I am playing with a sort of unfair advantage. What does the community think? I expect quite a few don’t care, and that’s fine. 

When do you use asymmetrical tactics? Do you think they give you an advantage? Should the AI managers incorporate them more in the game?  

[gunnerfan]

I’ve seen a few asymmetric formations posted in the Tactics forum, but I haven’t used any. I doubt they take the AI out of its normal functioning, so I wouldn’t regard using one as cheating. If fact, I suspect they may create more defensive problems for the user than they do for the AI.

[Overmars]

I tried an asymmetric 4-2-3-1 (AMC on the left, ST on the right) in the pre-winter patch and it worked great -- although about the same as a conventional 4-2-3-1 or 4-3-3 had been working for me. I didn't view it as unfair to the AI. The formations I find unfair are formations with three central strikers, since no one really plays like that in real life and the match engine can't really cope with multiple AFs.

[Daniel Evensen]

In my opinion, if it's possible in-game, it really shouldn't be thought of as "cheating."

In fact, there was a fairly well done recreation of the 1991 Red Star Belgrade tactic that was put together during FM21 - you can find the video here.  If an asymmetric formation is needed to recreate a real-life tactic, I see no reason why it should be thought of as "cheating."

I might be biased, though - I'm also very much in favor of using downloaded tactics, which I know is not a very popular opinion...

[Maviarab]

Like a 4231...I would consider it very much explpoiting...rather than cheating, though I couldn't care less what people do, their game, play it how you like.

And everyone cheats/exploits/whatever...or...the vast majority of us do...becayse ultimately it's a game and we can do shizz you couldn't in real life.  And that's cool.

[Daniel Evensen]

2 minutes ago, Maviarab said:

Like a 4231...I would consider it very much explpoiting...rather than cheating, though I couldn't care less what people do, their game, play it how you like.

And everyone cheats/exploits/whatever...or...the vast majority of us do...becayse ultimately it's a game and we can do shizz you couldn't in real life.  And that's cool.

Yep, you're exactly right.

The point of this game is not necessarily to recreate football as precisely as possible.  If that were the case, you certainly wouldn't see so many lower league teams that wind up winning the Champions League within 10 to 20 years or so.

Instead, it's all about providing a realistic environment in which players can immerse themselves and come up with their own stories.  It's almost like Dungeons and Dragons for sports fans — and the game really is a lot better if you slow down and get deep into the story.

[DarJ]

Im not a fan of asymmetric tactics because I think it takes advantage of the AI not being able to account for players not being where they are supposed to be so they can’t defend properly against it. It’s the same reason why the game limits the number of positions we can put our players in during set pieces, they can account for someone being in those positions in the code. Imagine if we were able to put out players wherever we wanted during those situations, there would be infinite combinations possible and SI won’t be able to balance that for the AI in the code. 

[deltablue]

For a while now I've used a formation with a single winger, as a result of once arriving at a club with hardly any (and lots of central defenders) and having to cobble together a formation with what I had. It's by no means a 'super-tactic' but I have had a more consistent trend of success (well on a particular version a least) than I have had with more conventional formations. 

[damian2112]

I've used 4-1-3-1-1 version of 4-2-3-1 - with DMCR-MCL-AMC setup (usually, or inverted DMCL-MCR-AMC, depending on the stronger side of the opponent) in my Juventus save, can't really say it's better or worse for the AI as my main tactic is 4-3-3, both tactics using Gegenpress or Vertical Tiki-Taka, but that may be just because of the strength of the squad I've build as I've dominated 26/27 season with Serie A, Coppa Italia and CL wins, with just one loss during the season. Usually I use the asymmetric formation only when the analysts tell me that the opponent is vulnerable against 4-2-3-1, and I have way too many CM/AMC capable players, but not too many DMCs.

[K94]

Personally, I've only used an asymmetric tactic when forced to by the available squad and lack of finances to do any different. But to be fair it's mostly just because I'm just way too bothered from the weird placing of players in the tactic screen in any asymmetric formation for it to ever convince to use it  

[GreenTriangle]

On 05/03/2023 at 19:29, bielsadidnothingwrong said:

 Do you think they give you an advantage?

if they would offer a clear advantage then they would be extremely used. they are not extremely used, so they don't offer a significant advantage. when formations with 3 strikers or strikerless offered such an advantage, the number of those who used them was very high.

[podunkboy]

I use asymmetric tactics when the squad I'm given favor such a tactic (i.e. lots of players natural at AMR, but all my left midfielders aren't as good at AML.)  And mostly because I really don't know what I'm doing, but by using asymmetric tactics, it makes me feel like a tactical genius .When I started playing back in FM'10, I knew absolutely NOTHING about tactics or "soccer" in general. And 20,000 hours of game time later, some would argue I haven't learned a thing. 

[Daniel Evensen]

5 hours ago, podunkboy said:

I use asymmetric tactics when the squad I'm given favor such a tactic (i.e. lots of players natural at AMR, but all my left midfielders aren't as good at AML.)  And mostly because I really don't know what I'm doing, but by using asymmetric tactics, it makes me feel like a tactical genius .When I started playing back in FM'10, I knew absolutely NOTHING about tactics or "soccer" in general. And 20,000 hours of game time later, some would argue I haven't learned a thing. 

In my mind, that's part of the fun of it all!  And, yeah, I don't think that feeling that you still don't understand the first thing about the game ever goes away.

I play Action! PC Football to get my American football kick; you can see my meager results here.  The more I think I know what offenses and defenses I need to call, the more I realize that I don't know the first thing about what I'm doing.  And that's part of the fun of it all: you always feel like you're learning something new.

Of course, FM is the best of all worlds, since your in-game character grows along with your understanding of the in-game world and its tactical nature.

Personally, though, I still prefer to ignore what the players on my team are actually good at, set up the tactic I want, and sell and buy players until I get something that fits.  Maybe that's why my squad dynamics always suck, lol.