Sports Scientist and Fatigue

[Feron]

Does anybody know if the Sports Scientist only provides information on the player's fatigue levels - or if they also actively help reduce the fatigue?

After reading a little bit it seems it's only the former and that would be pretty underwhelming I have to say.

 

Same with the Physios - apparently their proficiency only affects the accuracy of information on how long injuries will take.   Possibly also their length (mixed opinions on the internet) - that would be interesting to know.  However, in real life they also help prevent injuries! Through massages and other treatments. So it's a little disappointing they don't seem to do that in FM.

[Furmanbp]

To be honest we do not know exactly what they do because game does not tell us. We can only guess. Same is with training and having two coaches assigned to one training type. The game does not like to tell how this game work for some strange reason. 

[Sardaukar]

After last patch, my teams has been absolutely murdered with injuries...

Maybe something is bit off. 

[Neil Brock]

2 hours ago, Sardaukar said:

After last patch, my teams has been absolutely murdered with injuries...

Maybe something is bit off. 

Fatigue is liable to build up quicker in high intensity tactics. Worth keeping an eye on your medical centre to make sure players aren't being pushed too hard. 

[Feron]

1 hour ago, Neil Brock said:

Fatigue is liable to build up quicker in high intensity tactics. Worth keeping an eye on your medical centre to make sure players aren't being pushed too hard. 

can you also have a look at the opening post, and clarify what Sports Scientists do - do they only provide information or also actively have an impact on fatigue?
and same about physios - do they only provide information or help shorten injury periods?  possibly also help prevent them like they do in real life with their treatments?

Edited March 16, 2023 by Feron

[damian2112]

I feel that physios actually can help injured players recover faster than the initial prognosis, at least in my Juventus save with several world class physios I have seen them cutting sometimes a good week off the length of the injury. But I don't really know if this is the norm, and I also don't have the slightest idea if the sports scientists are actually doing any difference.

But as another poster mentioned, after the winter patch I do get quite more injuries than normal, and I don't really think it's the high intensity tactics liable for this as most of the injuries are happening during training. I use to fill all possible training slots (maybe that has an effect after the patch), but I look for schedule combinations that do not go over 50% intensity for the day, and certainly no heavy physical training during the season.

[Furmanbp]

21 hours ago, Neil Brock said:

Fatigue is liable to build up quicker in high intensity tactics. Worth keeping an eye on your medical centre to make sure players aren't being pushed too hard. 

And that is interesting knowledge. That should be told to us in pop-up information window, either on tactic screen or in medical center or even both! Also, can we get access to all loading hints in future. I ma pretty sure there is a lot of knowledge there but my computer run so fast that usually I can not read more than a quarter of each hint. 

[Furmanbp]

19 hours ago, Feron said:

can you also have a look at the opening post, and clarify what Sports Scientists do - do they only provide information or also actively have an impact on fatigue?
and same about physios - do they only provide information or help shorten injury periods?  possibly also help prevent them like they do in real life with their treatments?

@Neil Brock

I would also like to add to Feron question. Can we be somehow informed what does change having more physios or sport scientist in team. Can we be shown what is benefit of having extra pair of hand on board. So as a (virtual) manger we can make a cost-benefit calculation of whether it is worth to have that extra person or not? How it could work? For example we could get an email now and then that physios taking care after too many players and we could consider employing another one. Or we could see an workload of current physio team in percentage terms in medical centre. When workload would be above 100% would mean that they are overworked and are less effective. Or maybe one physio is always enough? 

[phantombandit]

they reduce injury chance, if they directly effect fatigue we do not know,

 

8 minutes ago, Furmanbp said:

@Neil Brock

I would also like to add to Feron question. Can we be somehow informed what does change having more physios or sport scientist in team. Can we be shown what is benefit of having extra pair of hand on board. So as a (virtual) manger we can make a cost-benefit calculation of whether it is worth to have that extra person or not? How it could work? For example we could get an email now and then that physios taking care after too many players and we could consider employing another one. Or we could see an workload of current physio team in percentage terms in medical centre. When workload would be above 100% would mean that they are overworked and are less effective. Or maybe one physio is always enough? 

zealand did a video on this. If you are interested, I can try and find it.

[Furmanbp]

2 minutes ago, phantombandit said:

they reduce injury chance, if they directly effect fatigue we do not know,

 

zealand did a video on this. If you are interested, I can try and find it.

yes please! Thou that info should be in game by default.

[du Garbandier]

16 hours ago, damian2112 said:

at least in my Juventus save

I have noticed at top-level Italian clubs, and nowhere else, that fitness coaches often double as sports scientists. 

[Feron]

6 hours ago, phantombandit said:

they reduce injury chance, if they directly effect fatigue we do not know,

 

sorry but this is exactly my question and doesn't answer it:

do they reduce the injury chance by delivering information on fatigue levels (so that the manager can make better informed decisions) or does it have an active impact on fatigue/injury risk

 

as to zealand:

he once made a video on FM22 or even FM21 where he (believes to have) found that having more than one sports scientist has little or even zero impact but that it does have an impact to have a high quality one (or something along those lines).

for Physios this is not the case

[phantombandit]

7 hours ago, Feron said:

 

sorry but this is exactly my question and doesn't answer it:

do they reduce the injury chance by delivering information on fatigue levels (so that the manager can make better informed decisions) or does it have an active impact on fatigue/injury risk

 

as to zealand:

he once made a video on FM22 or even FM21 where he (believes to have) found that having more than one sports scientist has little or even zero impact but that it does have an impact to have a high quality one (or something along those lines).

for Physios this is not the case

Sports scientists directly reduce the fatigue and injuries of your players.

 

13 hours ago, Furmanbp said:

yes please! Thou that info should be in game by default.

Go to the 8 minute mark.

 

 

[Furmanbp]

@phantombandit

Thanks for the video! Really well edited and well done. Thou about information he present us, I think that his statistical sample is to low to have definitive answer, both for CA and fatigue. Rather indication that it could do what he claim it does, and further investigation of that topic would make sense (what I mean to do it on proper sample size). Also I am not sure if he run whole season when he measure fatigue, he never state it, thou I would assume he does. 

What I want to say is that if his sample and amount of trials is to small then his results can be just totally random results. Even if its look like we would expect it to look. 

[Ngoc]

We won't get an answer, but in doubt, I would say get as many and as good as you can, no? In doubt I always try to get the best possible stuff I can I wonder why people always try to cheap it out especially in you leave stuff in automatic you want to have them to be the best possible.

Edited March 19, 2023 by Ngoc

[phantombandit]

On 18/03/2023 at 18:36, Furmanbp said:

@phantombandit

Thanks for the video! Really well edited and well done. Thou about information he present us, I think that his statistical sample is to low to have definitive answer, both for CA and fatigue. Rather indication that it could do what he claim it does, and further investigation of that topic would make sense (what I mean to do it on proper sample size). Also I am not sure if he run whole season when he measure fatigue, he never state it, thou I would assume he does. 

What I want to say is that if his sample and amount of trials is to small then his results can be just totally random results. Even if its look like we would expect it to look. 

It is a low sample size unfortunately. SI wont reveal the actual way it works, that is part of what makes the game feel realistic.

[Furmanbp]

9 hours ago, phantombandit said:

It is a low sample size unfortunately. SI wont reveal the actual way it works, that is part of what makes the game feel realistic.

I do not think that would kill realism. On other hand I could say that being manager in dark is unrealistic. For sure manager would know if he have enough physios or sport scientist. We do not know, kind of unrealistic, don't you think? But it is not about realism in first place, it is about making informed decision in game, that is more important than realism. If I want 100% realism I would go and made coach licence myself xD. Do not misunderstand me, I am not against realism in any sense. I believe that if you play any game you should know the rules.

This also could apply to coaches, don't you think that one with good motivation and one with good discipline would have kind of synergy? But not, you need one who have both attributes high to get more stars rating in training section.
 

[phantombandit]

32 minutes ago, Furmanbp said:

I do not think that would kill realism. On other hand I could say that being manager in dark is unrealistic. For sure manager would know if he have enough physios or sport scientist. We do not know, kind of unrealistic, don't you think? But it is not about realism in first place, it is about making informed decision in game, that is more important than realism. If I want 100% realism I would go and made coach licence myself xD. Do not misunderstand me, I am not against realism in any sense. I believe that if you play any game you should know the rules.

This also could apply to coaches, don't you think that one with good motivation and one with good discipline would have kind of synergy? But not, you need one who have both attributes high to get more stars rating in training section.
 

The game is simply a spreadsheet with cool graphics running over it. If you knew exactly what numbers effected what you could 'solve' the game. And it is realistic. You cant look at a physiotherapist in real life and immediately know that they will reduce your teams injuries by exactly 64.35%. This game doesnt tell you that either.

You want to know the rules: physios reduce injuries and the higher their physiotherapy number they greater the effect. That is what we know, anything else you need to just get a subjective feel for in your playthrus, same in real life. 

 

Edited March 21, 2023 by phantombandit

[Furmanbp]

On 21/03/2023 at 00:09, phantombandit said:

The game is simply a spreadsheet with cool graphics running over it. If you knew exactly what numbers effected what you could 'solve' the game. And it is realistic. You cant look at a physiotherapist in real life and immediately know that they will reduce your teams injuries by exactly 64.35%. This game doesnt tell you that either.

 

To properly use spreadsheet is good to know how it work.

You know the value of attributes, so you saying you go take a look at person and see that person attributes value in real life? Regardless of that, knowing attributes value solves your game righ? As you know, higher attribute is better. No it does not, so your argument is not valid. 
True I can not look on Physio and see for how many percentage points he will reduce injuries. But I can take a look on physio and see if he have too much work. I can see if he is slacking in job, and many others things.

 

 

On 21/03/2023 at 00:09, phantombandit said:

You want to know the rules: physios reduce injuries and the higher their physiotherapy number they greater the effect. That is what we know, anything else you need to just get a subjective feel for in your playthrus, same in real life. 

Is it thou? Have you done statistical research on proper size scale with as small amount of variables as possible?

Anyway, here I propose simple solution. Let us know how mechanic works, who will want to know it, can enable "deep explanation pop up window" in preferences, now when you hover over particular mechanic it will be described deeply. There we go, solution for both sides. So it does not solve game for you, and it does not solve game form me either. Everyone happy. 

[Ngoc]

Life is not math, but the game is math, so if they want the game to resemble life, they need to hide the math to look like life. If they tell you the math, the game won't work anymore, and it will be an exercise is calculation.

[rsihn]

On 17/03/2023 at 08:44, du Garbandier said:

I have noticed at top-level Italian clubs, and nowhere else, that fitness coaches often double as sports scientists. 

I've been doing this for a long time with my clubs.  I started doing it when using teams that had just turned pro and didn't really have the budget or coaching spots for a dedicated fitness coach and by giving your SS a dual role, it doesn't count towards your coaching allowance so you essentially get a free extra coach.  After doing this for awhile I found that it worked out quite well and continued with it.  The only problem I find is that it becomes harder and harder to convince a SS to accept the dual role as you move to the top tiers of football.  The game engine already gives a weighting to Fitness coaching in the CA calculation for sports scientists which implies that it is somehow important for the role so it only makes sense to me to go all in and have the same staff member perform both roles. 

[XaW]

Cleaned up a few posts here as it was turning into a mess. You know who you are. Please stop it.