Hugely frustrating when an average opposition player gets early goal and then…

[SimonHoddle]

Hugely frustrating when an average opposition player gets an early goal and then gets some ridiculous super charge to confidence like a power up from a super Mario game!! Not quite real life SI! But anyway…any ideas of how to stop the FM 23 super charged opponents ??

[santy001]

Be better? Looking at what is available in the screenshot you are in the second leg of a European tie and you had won this. The onus is entirely on the opposition to attack and so they'll play far more aggressively than they may do under normal circumstances. No point defending a loss after all. In most circumstances the majority of teams won't start a game with a very aggressive plan. When they do, if it yields early results they'll continue in that manner and steamroll you. 

If you notice you're having an easy time of it by doing X, you keep doing X. 

[SimonHoddle]

17 minutes ago, santy001 said:

Be better? Looking at what is available in the screenshot you are in the second leg of a European tie and you had won this. The onus is entirely on the opposition to attack and so they'll play far more aggressively than they may do under normal circumstances. No point defending a loss after all. In most circumstances the majority of teams won't start a game with a very aggressive plan. When they do, if it yields early results they'll continue in that manner and steamroll you. 

If you notice you're having an easy time of it by doing X, you keep doing X. 

I think it’s generally acknowledged that in FM an early goal (or miss) can disproportionately impact a players confidence. I have plenty of other examples of average players scoring early and then blitzing goals way beyond their abilities. I don’t think it’s realistic.

be better haha. Good advice. The opposition were only one goal down and playing at home. I don’t think that meant they were going to come at my team like a bullet train from minute 1. Nor would they in real life btw.

I stupidly selected a plug and play deep lying formation which, as most people know in FM, means my team gets constant passes over a static high line (despite low block set up) so I was asking for trouble. Should have just kept the sane 4231 control possession high line cos that means you concede fewer chances.

i don’t get your last line at all. We were 4-0 down at h/t. We were never having an easy time of it. 

[themadsheep2001]

It's not generally acknowledged. I don't know where got that from 

[santy001]

Weird theory about players missing/scoring early that I'm unaware of having any basis in reality.

18 minutes ago, SimonHoddle said:

i don’t get your last line at all. We were 4-0 down at h/t. We were never having an easy time of it. 

It was in reference to the AI. They're having an easy time of steamrolling your team by playing aggressive after the first goal. They're going to keep doing it. At least seemingly until half time. They probably then took their foot off the gas as they were in a comfortable position.

It seems like you've realised your own mistake though. You changed formation to a deeper tactic against an opponent likely to push up. You conceded early which then alleviates the pressure on the opposition to get a goal and it becomes difficult to stem the flow. 

 

[SimonHoddle]

5 minutes ago, santy001 said:

Weird theory about players missing/scoring early that I'm unaware of having any basis in reality.

It was in reference to the AI. They're having an easy time of steamrolling your team by playing aggressive after the first goal. They're going to keep doing it. At least seemingly until half time. They probably then took their foot off the gas as they were in a comfortable position.

It seems like you've realised your own mistake though. You changed formation to a deeper tactic against an opponent likely to push up. You conceded early which then alleviates the pressure on the opposition to get a goal and it becomes difficult to stem the flow. 

 

4 goals for a distinctly average player in one half against a strong defence isn’t realistic. There can be a massive OP of a player scoring early. Too many examples of that. 
If my mistake was to defend deep and counter in an away leg when I’m a goal up….when does one ever defend deep? I don’t mind losing but there has to be logic. Defending in this game (and I’m not a lonely voice here) is still way too vulnerable. Particularly the plug and play tactics for light users like myself. I also have several examples of DLs which are in exactly the same high position whether you play catenaccio or gegenpress. 

 

[SimonHoddle]

25 minutes ago, themadsheep2001 said:

It's not generally acknowledged. I don't know where got that from 

I assume you’re taking exception to the word disproportionately. Because scoring and missing does impact confidence (as it should). I use the word disproportionate because a journeyman has just scored 4 goals in one half in Europe against a top defence and I’ve seen other examples where players score early and then go on an OTT hot streak in the match. 
 

[themadsheep2001]

In every thread you've made there's a running trend of your game management being an issue. A lot of these seems to stem from presumptions about the game that don't really exist. I think first and foremost you reassess your thoughts of the game and how you approach it.

Go back to basics, go to the tactics forum, or even better watch some of the content by Rashidi. And do it with an open mind or you're going to have the same issues time and time again. 

[SimonHoddle]

7 hours ago, themadsheep2001 said:

In every thread you've made there's a running trend of your game management being an issue. A lot of these seems to stem from presumptions about the game that don't really exist. I think first and foremost you reassess your thoughts of the game and how you approach it.

Go back to basics, go to the tactics forum, or even better watch some of the content by Rashidi. And do it with an open mind or you're going to have the same issues time and time again. 

It feels like every reply a moderator puts out there these days is either sarcastic or dismissive.
 

You clearly haven’t read all my threads as there are several about bugs which SI directly acknowledge are unfixed for 2023. Also several where I ask for tactical direction from the community. But who cares about the truth when you can make a cheap dig.

I am direct and challenging about this game - it needs to be rigorously reviewed. I also often acknowledge I’m wrong btw. Because no I don’t have the time to dive through tactics forums and watch videos. I would assume in a game like Touch or Console (understanding the gamer probably has less time to invest) the P&P tactics should be robust. 

Incidentally I get alot of support from the community. A little more empathy from you guys would go a long way. 

[XaW]

5 minutes ago, SimonHoddle said:

It feels like every reply a moderator puts out there these days is either sarcastic or dismissive.

You clearly haven’t read all my threads as there are several about bugs which SI directly acknowledge are unfixed for 2023. Also several where I ask for tactical direction from the community. But who cares about the truth when you can make a cheap dig.

I am direct and challenging about this game - it needs to be rigorously reviewed. I also often acknowledge I’m wrong btw. Because no I don’t have the time to dive through tactics forums and watch videos. I would assume in a game like Touch or Console (understanding the gamer probably has less time to invest) the P&P tactics should be robust. 

Incidentally I get alot of support from the community. A little more empathy from you guys would go a long way. 

You mean like when I tried to help you here:

But you didn't upload the save anywhere so I could look at it more.

Or when I tried to help you with average positions?

I don't know if you uploaded a save in a bug report or not, but I showed you it works in the full version.

You have made several posts with demanding requests from people in here rather than just asking questions. You are clearly frustrated with how the game works, but several in here has tried again and again to be helpful and supportive. We moderators are not here for your enjoyment or at your request, we are here on our spare time to make sure everyone follows the house rules and are civil towards one another. We chose to try to help people when they have issues or questions, but your brash tone again and again when we've tried to help does encourage you to get more.

Go ahead, be direct, be critical, that's fine, but if you keep pushing back when anyone tries to help you, the help will dry out eventually. If you are irritated and frustrated with a topic, posting at that exact time might not always be the best timing for it, as you might come across much more crass than you actually intend.

My offer to look at your save still stands, by the way, if you actually want me to take a deeper look at your issues.

[themadsheep2001]

I'm done. I've spent multiple threads trying to help you, and the only person being dismissive here is you. There's a reason you go through the same issues and others don't.

If it was a uniform problem everyone would have the same issues but they don't. Good luck with your frustrations. 

[SimonHoddle]

I said thank you multiple times when people help 😂. I thanked you on that thread. Idk how to upload a save and I didn’t want to bother you further. 
 

easy now lads. Closing ranks and all coming at me isn’t a good look.

[themadsheep2001]

9 minutes ago, SimonHoddle said:

I said thank you multiple times when people help 😂. I thanked you on that thread. Idk how to upload a save and I didn’t want to bother you further. 
 

easy now lads. Closing ranks and all coming at me isn’t a good look.

I'm not closing rank, i only speak for myself so don't accuse people of anything. I'm simply not going to offer help to someone who repeatedly doesn't want to listen then accuses me of being dismissive. 

[santy001]

9 hours ago, SimonHoddle said:

any ideas of how to stop the FM 23 super charged opponents ??

Based on this I felt a sarcastic response of "be better" was warranted. I presumed you weren't yourself being serious with this assertion. If you were, then apologies. 

There isn't too much anyone can really advise if that's your starting position though. That you need help with 'super charged opponents' because it doesn't exist. You can't really put it out there that you expected a plug and play tactic to be robust, if its the wrong solution to the problem the opposition are posing, its going to fail. 

[herne79]

9 hours ago, SimonHoddle said:

I stupidly selected a plug and play deep lying formation which, as most people know in FM, means my team gets constant passes over a static high line (despite low block set up) so I was asking for trouble. Should have just kept the sane 4231 control possession high line cos that means you concede fewer chances.

You didn’t lose so heavily because you selected that particular tactic - you lost because you selected a tactic which you hadn’t tried and tested yourself, and then carried on regardless until it was way too late (if at all).  Sorry but that’s not the game’s fault.  I understand you’re feeling a bit pissed at the game but in answer to your question “how to stop the FM23 supercharged opponents” : don’t make the same mistake again 👍.

btw it’s always been perfectly viable to play with a “deep lying formation” - they can just be trickier to set up and maintain than other systems.

Edited April 6, 2023 by herne79

[KillYourIdols]

Assuming these stats are Accurate, I woudn't call him "Average". There is a very god chance a player like this could rip a team to shreds if they aren't adaquatly set up. As others have said, you were away in a Knockout leg, How did you set up? Did you push for more goals and get caught on the Counter? Did you sit back and defend a lead and invite pressure? Did you man mark him after his 2nd goal or set other Instructions?

[SimonHoddle]

I played the P&P direct counter attack with 5221 (2 wingers, 2 WBs) and they played 442. Bang average is a slight exaggeration but 3 high quality CBs playing deep shouldn’t concede 4 goals to a CF in one half of football.

there does seem to be a disposition in the game where a player scores early and confidence levels rise beyond recognition. It’s anecdotal yes but I’ve heard it mentioned by other posters.

in all honesty I didn’t change my tactics no. I just replayed the game with the sane tactics and won 3-1 haha. I like losing but not if it’s absurd.

and I didn’t MM because a lot of tacticians on this board say it screws up defensive positioning and considering I was playing deep and rigid it seemed wrong to get my team pulled out of positions.

IMO……the always MM PI is very dated, contrary and vague. What does always MM really mean. Because it obviously doesn’t mean always MM.

[SimonHoddle]

6 hours ago, herne79 said:

You didn’t lose so heavily because you selected that particular tactic - you lost because you selected a tactic which you hadn’t tried and tested yourself, and then carried on regardless until it was way too late (if at all).  Sorry but that’s not the game’s fault.  I understand you’re feeling a bit pissed at the game but in answer to your question “how to stop the FM23 supercharged opponents” : don’t make the same mistake again 👍.

btw it’s always been perfectly viable to play with a “deep lying formation” - they can just be trickier to set up and maintain than other systems.

It would be lovely if SI made it clearer how defensive formations work. No I’d never tried that tactic but P&P is surely available for those who don’t have the time to try and test. I don’t get pissed off losing, I get pissed off when it feels absurd. 

[herne79]

9 minutes ago, SimonHoddle said:

It would be lovely if SI made it clearer how defensive formations work. No I’d never tried that tactic but P&P is surely available for those who don’t have the time to try and test. I don’t get pissed off losing, I get pissed off when it feels absurd. 

I agree, some things could be clearer in game.  One thing that isn’t made clear is that the default tactics built into the game (I’m guessing you used one here) are not and have never been “plug and play”.  They’re just a starting point for us to adapt as we see fit for the players at our disposal.  Sometimes they’ll work without adjusting, others require tweaking and pretty much all of them may well require adjusting during the course of a match - as you found out to your cost 😔.

So yeh I get the frustration but take it on the chin and use it as a learning point - if you use a tactic for the first time, keep a very close eye on what’s happening during the match and adjust things asap if it starts going pete tong 👍.

[SimonHoddle]

28 minutes ago, herne79 said:

I agree, some things could be clearer in game.  One thing that isn’t made clear is that the default tactics built into the game (I’m guessing you used one here) are not and have never been “plug and play”.  They’re just a starting point for us to adapt as we see fit for the players at our disposal.  Sometimes they’ll work without adjusting, others require tweaking and pretty much all of them may well require adjusting during the course of a match - as you found out to your cost 😔.

So yeh I get the frustration but take it on the chin and use it as a learning point - if you use a tactic for the first time, keep a very close eye on what’s happening during the match and adjust things asap if it starts going pete tong 👍.

I did use the default tactics yes. Again have SI been clear about these not being P&P 🤔 

I like being challenged it makes it more fun. But I do feel there is a little too much ambiguity in FM. Eg I’ve seen loads of examples of my DL equally high up the pitch (when the opponent has the ball) if playing gegenpress or catenaccio. There may be an explanation but the game doesn’t really provide it… IMO

really appreciate your measured response. The eye will be closer when I play next! :-)