What attribute corresponds to this?

[뜨페이뜨]

What I want to know is coordination.
 
Very closely related to technique, it's how efficiently the body integrates and performs the complex movements required on a particular play. 
It's not a concept of pure athleticism, which is why the same athlete can look at it extremely differently depending on the sport. 
A baseball player can't dribble like a soccer player, and a soccer player can't hit a ball like a baseball player, because they've been training differently. So of course, coordination is measured for athletes in the same sport.

Now, you might say, well, you could just reduce it to technique, but that's not the case.
For example, let's compare Lewandowski and Ronaldo. 
They both have good ball touch, but there are certain plays they don't do well. Lewandowski has the flexibility to receive the ball with his back to the defense and turn around, but he has trouble driving the ball forward with stability. 
Ronaldo, on the other hand, can dribble at a consistent speed (with no opposing defense), but he can't turn his back on a defender, much less make a smooth turn. 
This is due to the different physical coordination (upper and lower body balance, joint mobility, center of gravity, etc.) required to perform each play, regardless of the player's technical level.

Think of rhythmic gymnastics or figure skating as examples of sports where coordination is extremely important: the more unnatural and complex the movements you're trying to execute, the higher the coordination required by that sport/play, and we see a huge gap between pure athleticism and these factors even among top-tier players.

[Lord Rowell]

I would say you're describing the agility attribute, in some contexts in combination with balance.

[뜨페이뜨]

50 minutes ago, Lord Rowell said:

I would say you're describing the agility attribute, in some contexts in combination with balance.

What exactly is balance an attribute?

[HUNT3R]

It's important to keep in mind that most actions or passages of play uses several attributes. It's almost never just a single attribute for an action. It sounds like you're talking about (Ronaldo especially) of a few years ago, but specifically about Balance - it's used in a number of different actions. IMO, it's very underrated, though I might not disagree when someone tells me that I am overrating it.  You're looking at situations like -

- Receiving the ball and passing/shooting/crossing on the turn. Obviously, it would be in combination with strength to hold off the defender and passing/finishing or long shots/crossing. 

- Passing/shooting/crossing at pace and how well he'll keep his balance when doing so.

- I've touched on it, but how well he can stand his ground when challenged. Strength would be the bigger factor, but Balance is also used to 'ride' the challenge or hold off a player by keeping your balance.

 

[뜨페이뜨]

1 hour ago, HUNT3R said:

It's important to keep in mind that most actions or passages of play uses several attributes. It's almost never just a single attribute for an action. It sounds like you're talking about (Ronaldo especially) of a few years ago, but specifically about Balance - it's used in a number of different actions. IMO, it's very underrated, though I might not disagree when someone tells me that I am overrating it.  You're looking at situations like -

- Receiving the ball and passing/shooting/crossing on the turn. Obviously, it would be in combination with strength to hold off the defender and passing/finishing or long shots/crossing. 

- Passing/shooting/crossing at pace and how well he'll keep his balance when doing so.

- I've touched on it, but how well he can stand his ground when challenged. Strength would be the bigger factor, but Balance is also used to 'ride' the challenge or hold off a player by keeping your balance.

 

Isn't balance also used in contention situations?
There are players who are relatively average or weak in strength, but have the superior coordination I mentioned. For example, zico from Brazil and iniesta from Spain.
However, if you look at Iniesta's previous series attributes, he doesn't have a high balance.

Edited April 16, 2023 by 뜨페이뜨

[HUNT3R]

13 hours ago, 뜨페이뜨 said:

Isn't balance also used in contention situations?

Yes, but again, it's never a single attribute that's being used in a situation, as I've tried to explain.

Someone like Iniesta might not have the pure strength (and as said, balance plays a part too, but it's mostly strength) to hold off a defender, but his dribbling, technique and agility (where balance will also play a part) will mean he's going to be a slippery opponent.

You cannot look at one attribute in isolation, but rather at how they all combine in a situation.

[뜨페이뜨]

4 minutes ago, HUNT3R said:

Yes, but again, it's never a single attribute that's being used in a situation, as I've tried to explain.

Someone like Iniesta might not have the pure strength (and as said, balance plays a part too, but it's mostly strength) to hold off a defender, but his dribbling, technique and agility (where balance will also play a part) will mean he's going to be a slippery opponent.

You cannot look at one attribute in isolation, but rather at how they all combine in a situation.

If so, either Iniesta's balance attribute is measured incorrectly (Iniesta's number is between 11 and 13), 
Or is balance not an appropriate example, and other attributes like dribbling or agility are more appropriate?

The manual seems to be very poorly written.
I think the next version should be more detailed and nuanced and include more attribute types.

Edited April 17, 2023 by 뜨페이뜨

[Johnny Ace]

22 hours ago, 뜨페이뜨 said:

For example, let's compare Lewandowski and Ronaldo. 

In these cases, I think holding off a defender with your back to goal, is mostly Strength, as you're physically holding him off

Riding tackles and staying on your feet with the ball, would be be Balance, the player is able to better keep his balance under challenging circumstances

 

2 hours ago, 뜨페이뜨 said:

If so, either Iniesta's balance attribute is measured incorrectly (Iniesta's number is between 11 and 13), 

My guess is that Iniesta was never known as a ball carrying type player so never needed a high Balance attribute but attributes are always combined in every circumstance

2 hours ago, 뜨페이뜨 said:

The manual seems to be very poorly written.

If you hover over the attributes on the player profile, it gives you a pretty good description, it should then give you good idea of when attributes are being used  

[뜨페이뜨]

1 minute ago, Johnny Ace said:

My guess is that Iniesta was never known as a ball carrying type player so never needed a high Balance attribute but attributes are always combined in every circumstance

It's not necessarily an attribute that only applies to ball carrying.

In basketball terms, it would be how good your shooting touch is and how spectacular your dribbling technique is. For example, it's safe to say that Zidane's coordination is the best it's ever been.

However, he is lacking in the second requirement, physical condition.
This refers to the extent to which a player's height, leg length, etc... allow them to display their technique and coordination appropriately in their position (and overcome the opponents they typically face in their position).
This is probably why Zidane's reaction to the ball, technique, and touch are at an overwhelming level, but he has a hard time translating that coordination to a Messi level on the field.

In that sense, a smaller Zico or Iniesta might be more coordinated than Zidane.

[Johnny Ace]

15 minutes ago, 뜨페이뜨 said:

It's not necessarily an attribute that only applies to ball carrying.

Exactly, it's basically how well a player keeps their balance, so receiving and distributing the ball, a player will need to keep their balance but carrying the ball is where it will be tested the most   

[XaW]

2 hours ago, 뜨페이뜨 said:

Or is balance not an appropriate example, and other attributes like dribbling or agility are more appropriate?

I think you are going about this the wrong way. You are looking at the game trying to min-max it, but FM doesn't work like that. Some games, like say Trackmania, are deterministic. By that, I mean that if you input the exact same in two races, you get the exact same time (on the thousand of a second), FM is not like that. You can have a perfect squad of perfect players playing the perfect tactic, but you can still lose to a worse team. And on the contrary, you can have flawed players playing an incoherent tactic, but still win over a better team. The only thing you can do is push the odds in your favour. Having the squad of perfect players will make you win MORE games than flawed players, but never 100%.

That's why Real Madrid can lose to a 3rd tier team in the cup, or why Leicester can win the league, or why Liverpool could be Milan in the CL final in 2005. The best team doesn't always win, but they will win more often than still.

Looking at attribute X in isolation will not give you enough to work on. Because there are loads of other attributes that impact any situation, and that goes for both players. I've seen is that the players field of view even come into account. So if player A is looking the right way at the time, that player might have a big advantage over player B who is a superior player, but looked another direction at that specific time. Or how their bodies are turned when the situation starts, or how fatigued they are, or how wet the grass is, and a million other factors that come into play outside the one attribute.