FM24 Early Access Official Feedback Thread

[Dagenham_Dave]

12 minutes ago, DP said:

Why should I need to limit myself?

I explicitly said you didn't have to. However, it's not up to SI to make the game easier or harder for just you. 

[kiwityke1983]

2 minutes ago, Dagenham_Dave said:

No, the goals in my save are maybe a little higher than IRL, but not drastically more. 

Yeah but there's a very loud group of people every year who I'm convinced don't even actually play the game who just holiday looking for stats to moan about as "game breaking" as they aren't 1:1 with life.

Also see passes completed and corners.

Whatever floats ya boat I guess.

The ME for me personally though looks fantastic this year as close to real football as we've had I hope they don't ruin it so the stats align perfectly with the real world.

[kiwityke1983]

5 minutes ago, PGHJuice said:

If you're not seeing a ridiculous amount of long shots going in at an alarming rate, then I don't know what to tell you. Keepers are playing like they're blind. I've had countless defensive midfielders with less than 10 in finishing scoring goals on me from 20 yards out. It's insane

I haven't seen anymore than I'd expect to see watching football IRL.

Most of the goals I've seen have been pullbacks or through balls or the real OP thing this year.

Set pieces!

[Muja]

1 minuto fa, kiwityke1983 ha scritto:

 I hope they don't ruin it so the stats align perfectly with the real world.

Which is never possible anyway

[XaW]

1 minute ago, kiwityke1983 said:

Yeah but there's a very loud group of people every year who I'm convinced don't even actually play the game who just holiday looking for stats to moan about as "game breaking" as they aren't 1:1 with life.

Also see passes completed and corners.

Whatever floats ya boat I guess.

The ME for me personally though looks fantastic this year as close to real football as we've had I hope they don't ruin it so the stats align perfectly with the real world.

I encourage anyone to look at games more than statistics in isolation. SI have also said they do their stats a bit different to real life, as they always know the intention of the players, rather than estimating. The example used was a hopeful pass vs clearing the ball. Unless the difference is vast, I suggest looking at how it looks in matches to see if there are errors. Some times having the games be good is more important than matching the exact percentages imo.

[kiwityke1983]

3 minutes ago, XaW said:

I encourage anyone to look at games more than statistics in isolation. SI have also said they do their stats a bit different to real life, as they always know the intention of the players, rather than estimating. The example used was a hopeful pass vs clearing the ball. Unless the difference is vast, I suggest looking at how it looks in matches to see if there are errors. Some times having the games be good is more important than matching the exact percentages imo.

Yep as I say the matches look brilliant and exactly like the real matches I watch every week...to the point I'm recreating my team's real problems in the match engine this year!

[EffectiveFball]

12 minutes ago, kiwityke1983 said:

Someone from SI explained this on a different page. 

TLDR it is slightly higher than actual football but only due to the way FM tracks passes as opposed to real life.

Do you know where this is liked? I find it slightly hard to believe this could make 10 points difference.

Additionally, pass completion numbers are up significantly on the last game.

[skiante]

I really think that the major "issue" with the ME right now is the amount of goals compared to IRL.

It's a little bit higher, not too much, if SI could balance that improving AI defense for the final release, we would have a near-perfect match engine.

[Muja]

Okay, after a few hours of play I feel like giving feedback as well.
Many people have already expressed their satisfaction with the new ME, so I have nothing more to add.

What I am very happy about is something that I don't know if it was introduced this year (since I haven't played FM22 and FM23).

But the preset tactics in my opinion are at a perfect level. They are good enough to allow you to make the team play the way you want right away, but not good enough to allow you to dominate the league without the slightest effort.

I'm someone who has never liked "winning big" with lesser teams (because in my eyes it is simply not realistic), so this is something I am very happy about. I think I will count on these tactics to keep me from coming up with some game-breaking tactic that risks making my experience too easy, unrealistic, and therefore less fun.

[Dagenham_Dave]

18 minutes ago, PGHJuice said:

I've had countless defensive midfielders with less than 10 in finishing scoring goals on me from 20 yards out.

A player with 1 for finishing can score from 20 yards out. It's not the only attribute that is factored in. And you also have the mental stats and hidden stats too. 

[Dagenham_Dave]

1 minute ago, Muja said:

Okay, after a few hours of play I feel like giving feedback as well.
Many people have already expressed their satisfaction with the new ME, so I have nothing more to add.

What I am very happy about is something that I don't know if it was introduced this year (since I haven't played FM22 and FM23).

But the preset tactics in my opinion are at a perfect level. They are good enough to allow you to make the team play the way you want right away, but not good enough to allow you to dominate the league without the slightest effort.

I'm someone who has never liked "winning big" with lesser teams (because in my eyes it is simply not realistic), so this is something I am very happy about. I think I will count on these tactics to keep me from coming up with some game-breaking tactic that risks making my experience too easy, unrealistic, and therefore less fun.

I've always played with one of the default tactics, because that's what the AI uses, so I see it as fair competition that way. 

[Muja]

In questo momento, Dagenham_Dave ha scritto:

I've always played with one of the default tactics, because that's what the AI uses, so I see it as fair competition that way. 

We think alike, then!

[PGHJuice]

4 minutes ago, Dagenham_Dave said:

A player with 1 for finishing can score from 20 yards out. It's not the only attribute that is factored in. And you also have the mental stats and hidden stats too. 

I 100% understand that. My beef is the rate at which it happens. 

[Sunshinelufc]

1 minute ago, skiante said:

I really think that the major "issue" with the ME right now is the amount of goals compared to IRL.

It's a little bit higher, not too much, if SI could balance that improving AI defense for the final release, we would have a near-perfect match engine.

As a human player, mine is a lot higher than IRL. My team have scored 3 or more goals in 15 out of 22 Championship games so far. 4 of which have seen me score 5 or more goals;  5-1 against Preston, 5-0 against Watford, 5-1 against Stoke, 7-0 against Coventry. 

[jim owen]

28 minutes ago, PGHJuice said:

If you're not seeing a ridiculous amount of long shots going in at an alarming rate, then I don't know what to tell you. Keepers are playing like they're blind. I've had countless defensive midfielders with less than 10 in finishing scoring goals on me from 20 yards out. It's insane

if its just on you its your tactics, if its on you and for you then its a potential issue so put it in the bug tracker. Can't say i've seen it myself.

[kiwityke1983]

16 minutes ago, EffectiveFball said:

Do you know where this is liked? I find it slightly hard to believe this could make 10 points difference.

Additionally, pass completion numbers are up significantly on the last game.

It's in this feedback somewhere maybe around page 4 or 5.

[kiwityke1983]

I've started a bug report in the tracker regarding the players unhappy about squad depth and it seemingly being unresolvable if anyone else wants to add to it. @Dagenham_Dave @PGHJuice I think you both had the exact same issue.
 

 

[kandersson]

3 hours ago, Johnny Ace said:

On Attack, the Libero never quite did that, unfortunately. For years, he would just sort of cross the halfway line and hang around there, I'm not sure if was a game breaker or anything but I think it's better now it's D/S only

The "Quarta role" might be a good feature request  

Yeah I thought with new rotations and positional play a Libero on Attack could be viable and personally I think the 'John Stones role' irl is a but more aggressive than current version of Libero on Support. Maybe traits/PPM's like gets forward whenever possible or gets into opposition area could help?  Fun fact: Quarta lacks any relevant trait for the Quarta role atm 

Will post a request for the Quarta role at some point 

[kingjericho]

On 20/10/2023 at 12:04, d d said:

Is there a way of getting more options for the scaling in the preference screen, or do i have to wait for the wait for the full version on release day?

go to

X:\Users\XXXXX\AppData\Local\Sports Interactive\Football Manager 2024\Preferences\version 2\ui_zoom_level

edit that file to the scaling you wish. I think you need to restart the game to see the changes

[DP]

37 minutes ago, Dagenham_Dave said:

I explicitly said you didn't have to. However, it's not up to SI to make the game easier or harder for just you. 

It is up to SI to produce as realistic a game world as possible I’m afraid. And that’s what they are trying to do. 

If the AI is still struggling to squad build at the top level then it’s on them - as they have said they are trying to improve it. 

[StevehFC]

50 minutes ago, Platinum said:

Depends which issues you are referring to but it's a big improvement overall

Youth players not developing at all. 

[Tikka Mezzala]

3 minutes ago, StevehFC said:

Youth players not developing at all. 

That's just the way it is in Scotland, mate. 

[phnompenhandy]

6 minutes ago, DP said:

It is up to SI to produce as realistic a game world as possible I’m afraid. And that’s what they are trying to do. 

If the AI is still struggling to squad build at the top level then it’s on them - as they have said they are trying to improve it. 

You have a warped sense of "realism". In what real-world scenario would you be given a job as a football manager?

[SPE3D]

1 hour ago, Dagenham_Dave said:

Interesting that you've taken one person's view on it when you've no idea how his game has been set up, what level of detail etc etc

Also, AI squad building is not an exact science, nor is it totally binary. SI have said this area of the game has been improved, but this doesn't suddenly mean that every team in the future is going to be filled with wonderkids. There still has to be a balance, and it must be difficult getting that spot on. They will have tested this extensively and must be relatively happy with the results. I suppose time will tell, but just gotta trust the process for now, until we hear of extensive failings on it, not just the opinion of one person.  

It isn't just one person and the only feedback so far has been negative but fair comment. Also nice to see SI have responded and are looking into it which is encouraging.

[EffectiveFball]

16 minutes ago, kiwityke1983 said:

It's in this feedback somewhere maybe around page 4 or 5.

Can't find what you're referring to. Other people identify this issue around page 7 but I can't find your explanation.

[StevehFC]

2 minutes ago, Tikka Mezzala said:

That's just the way it is in Scotland, mate. 

[DP]

Just now, phnompenhandy said:

You have a warped sense of "realism". In what real-world scenario would you be given a job as a football manager?

How does that impact making sure the AI are as realistic as possible?

Should we play the games for 30 minutes instead of 90 or with two balls because the whole premise is set on not being realistic?

[kiwityke1983]

3 minutes ago, EffectiveFball said:

Can't find what you're referring to. Other people identify this issue around page 7 but I can't find your explanation.

It's on page 8 is a blue highlighted reply from Jack Joyce and he discusses the passing stats in detail after some other stuff.

[GunmaN1905]

Is it just me or direct free-kicks just aren't happening?

As already mentioned, corners and wide FKs are borderline broken, I'm scoring a ridiculous number of goals with mixed settings and not even trying to exploit a certain area, but in my 60+ matches played, I've seen only two direct FK goals.

Scored one from the edge of the area in goalkeeper's corner and conceded one from like 30m+ out because of what looked like poor wall. As in the ball going on the outside of the wall into the corner.

And I can't help but feel that even the best defenders look stupid way too often in chaotic situations. Second balls after set-piece cross is cleared or situations after blocked shots. While those situations are also one of the highest goalscoring situations in real life, some of the goals are just unexplainable.

[Dagenham_Dave]

Just now, SPE3D said:

It isn't just one person and the only feedback so far has been negative but fair comment. Also nice to see SI have responded and are looking into it which is encouraging.

I've actually found over the years that the further you go into the future, the better it becomes, and I have my own theory on this. 

I feel as though the real life players in the game are far better than the initial batch of newgens that come through, and this leads to the AI teams picking the older players for longer because the newgens, for the most part, don't catch up. Once the gameworld is completely full of newgens, then this balances out better, however this can take 15-20 years, and not many people play for that long. And I think this is the hardest aspect for SI to try and improve on. I reckon if you were able to start a brand new game where the gameworld was initially populated by just newgens (and not regens of existing players like one of the options you have now), you would see a much better balanced gameworld from the start. 

As I said though, it's just a theory, could be hopelessly wrong. 

[JackPretzel]

1 hour ago, Dagenham_Dave said:

That's on the human player then. If they want a more realistic challenge, don't fill your team up with wonderkids. It's really quite simple. Would be great if the AI was advanced enough to keep up with that, but it never has been. So if you're one of those players who exploit how easy it is to build a team full of the world's best players (and that's great if you are, play how you want), you can't really complain about the game being too easy. 

FM is a game that is as easy or as difficult as you make it. 

I want the AI to sign and play more young players because it makes the game world more interesting and dynamic. It spoils the immersion when you're ten years into a save and all the big clubs have an average squad age of 30+ and hardly any players under 23 in the starting XI. That was the case in my saves in both FM22 and FM23.

Quote

Would be great if the AI was advanced enough to keep up with that, but it never has been.

It was far better before FM22. In my FM21 save there were lots of regens breaking through. 

Edited October 21, 2023 by JackPretzel

[Dagenham_Dave]

Just now, JackPretzel said:

It was far better before FM22.

Nonsense, people have been whining about this for years. 

[Domoboy23]

5 minutes ago, Dagenham_Dave said:

I've actually found over the years that the further you go into the future, the better it becomes, and I have my own theory on this. 

I feel as though the real life players in the game are far better than the initial batch of newgens that come through, and this leads to the AI teams picking the older players for longer because the newgens, for the most part, don't catch up. Once the gameworld is completely full of newgens, then this balances out better, however this can take 15-20 years, and not many people play for that long. And I think this is the hardest aspect for SI to try and improve on. I reckon if you were able to start a brand new game where the gameworld was initially populated by just newgens (and not regens of existing players like one of the options you have now), you would see a much better balanced gameworld from the start. 

As I said though, it's just a theory, could be hopelessly wrong. 

Exactly this IMO too. I feel the reputation of existing real players far outweighs the newgens due to comp reps and awards being how shall I say... not exactly standardized in the default database or consistent. However, after 10 years this should settle out and you end up with sensible AI newgen progression and age ranges in national teams.

[JackPretzel]

1 minute ago, Dagenham_Dave said:

Nonsense, people have been whining about this for years. 

Regens broke through in the top teams far more quickly in pre-FM22 versions of the game. That is far more realistic (and IMO, better) than the top clubs having almost no regens in their starting XIs until 15~ years into the save, which was my experience in FM22 and FM23.

[Dagenham_Dave]

3 minutes ago, JackPretzel said:

 It spoils the immersion when you're ten years into a save and all the big clubs have an average squad age of 30+

Guaranteed all these players 30+ will be real life players, which adds to my theory above. Perhaps the problem isn't increasing the quality of newgens coming through, but decreasing the quality of the real life players at the start of the game. But SI will never do this, can you imagine the meltdown on here if they did? 

[phnompenhandy]

9 minutes ago, Dagenham_Dave said:

I've actually found over the years that the further you go into the future, the better it becomes, and I have my own theory on this. 

I feel as though the real life players in the game are far better than the initial batch of newgens that come through, and this leads to the AI teams picking the older players for longer because the newgens, for the most part, don't catch up. Once the gameworld is completely full of newgens, then this balances out better, however this can take 15-20 years, and not many people play for that long. And I think this is the hardest aspect for SI to try and improve on. I reckon if you were able to start a brand new game where the gameworld was initially populated by just newgens (and not regens of existing players like one of the options you have now), you would see a much better balanced gameworld from the start. 

As I said though, it's just a theory, could be hopelessly wrong. 

It's an interesting and plausible theory. Do you think it's the visible attributes and PA that are lesser in regens, or is it more the hidden attributes. It would make sense if SI were 'shy' in dishing out bad attributes for the likes of professionalism, ambition and sportsmanship to real players, but not hold back on regens.

[kiwityke1983]

2 minutes ago, JackPretzel said:

Regens broke through in the top teams far more quickly in pre-FM22 versions of the game. That is far more realistic (and IMO, better) than the top clubs having almost no regens in their starting XIs until 15~ years into the save, which was my experience in FM22 and FM23.

But also before FM22 and 23 anyone over 28 was basically 50 the decline in their stats was so precipitous.

[Azz_88]

Really enjoying the game but a couple of things so far in my game. Holidayed to Christmas and took over a struggling St Albans team in conference south:

first 3 games with a balanced 442 and 3 instructions led to a 7-3 win, 3-1 win and 6-3 win so a lot of goals but this cooled down over the next few games thankfully.

 

Seen it mentioned but goalkeeper broke his hand in a game and out for weeks. 3 games later sub keeper broke his wrist in a game so scrambling around to find another loan keeper now. It can happen irl but seems to be happening for lots of people. 

[Dagenham_Dave]

5 minutes ago, JackPretzel said:

Regens broke through in the top teams far more quickly in pre-FM22 versions of the game. That is far more realistic (and IMO, better) than the top clubs having almost no regens in their starting XIs until 15~ years into the save, which was my experience in FM22 and FM23.

Just booted up my FM21 long term save, year is 2034, first team I looked at, Man Utd, doesn't look stacked with youngsters to me. 

[SynergyIso7]

Can anyone tell me if interactions with a player have improved in the sense that when they ask for more playing time, you can offer them time off the bench or in cups and they're happy about it?

Also, if player comes to you about playing time and has been playing badly, why do they think they deserve more game time? 

If a player wants a move to a bigger club but doesn't understand that you are building something and they can't see the potential and are only concerned about your current club ranking. 

It's hard to programme I suppose. 

[Dagenham_Dave]

4 minutes ago, phnompenhandy said:

Do you think it's the visible attributes and PA that are lesser in regens, or is it more the hidden attributes. It would make sense if SI were 'shy' in dishing out bad attributes for the likes of professionalism, ambition and sportsmanship to real players, but not hold back on regens.

Hidden attributes in RL players being higher is a good shout. SI need to be careful with real life players. This is why you don't get news reports about real life players being spotted in nightclubs and missing training etc. 

[Dagenham_Dave]

2 minutes ago, SynergyIso7 said:

Can anyone tell me if interactions with a player have improved in the sense that when they ask for more playing time, you can offer them time off the bench or in cups and they're happy about it?

Also, if player comes to you about playing time and has been playing badly, why do they think they deserve more game time? 

If a player wants a move to a bigger club but doesn't understand that you are building something and they can't see the potential and are only concerned about your current club ranking. 

It's hard to programme I suppose. 

I have to say I haven't seen much difference in this, there was supposed to be more contextual information about different levels of unhappiness, but I've not seen much, if any, evidence so far. I am running an FM23 save in the new game, so no idea if that would have any effect or not. 

[phnompenhandy]

5 minutes ago, SynergyIso7 said:

Can anyone tell me if interactions with a player have improved in the sense that when they ask for more playing time, you can offer them time off the bench or in cups and they're happy about it?

Also, if player comes to you about playing time and has been playing badly, why do they think they deserve more game time? 

If a player wants a move to a bigger club but doesn't understand that you are building something and they can't see the potential and are only concerned about your current club ranking. 

It's hard to programme I suppose. 

I think the new feature of setting targets might improve this aspect. Like DD, I'm continuing a FM23 save and haven't come across the feature yet.

[serkanedabasar78]

They have 3 year contracts and they still keep asking for contracts.

[latrell]

After importing my save one of the great features i am loving is the new options to sell players makes life so much better 

[Dagenham_Dave]

Just now, phnompenhandy said:

I think the new feature of setting targets might improve this aspect. Like DD, I'm continuing a FM23 save and haven't come across the feature yet.

Oh, I've set a couple of targets and already noticed an issue with that. Gave a young player a target of scoring 7 league goals to improve his squad status. 

Got the news report through with the update on targets, player was 'disappointed' and when hovering over the icon it says he understood his recent injury had hampered this progress

Fast forward one week (and no games in between, on international break), and he's now 'devastated' and it's 'my fault'. 

Aye ok then. 

[EffectiveFball]

35 minutes ago, kiwityke1983 said:

It's on page 8 is a blue highlighted reply from Jack Joyce and he discusses the passing stats in detail after some other stuff.

Just read the post. Doesn't alleviate my concern at all.

I am referring to the premier League, not lower leagues.

The difference in pass completion is so large it cannot be explained away by more accurately recorded clearances. It seems unlikely this would make much more than a percentage point of difference.

I can simulate 1 to 1 to see how passing has change. Simulating the same save in fm23 and fm24 produces significantly higher pass completion in the latter. No teams broke 90% completion in fm23 but 6 do in fm24. Burnley averaging 69% in fm23 are averaging 81% in FM24.

My tactic is averaging the same completion numbers, which suggests to me there is a problem with the behaviour of AI teams/managers.

 

 

[andu1]

The only issues i found so far with the ME are the high number of corners per game and the 4-4-2 formation which for Ai means too many goals conceded.

Maybe it would be best of the 4-4-2 used 2 DM's? Like its used IRL

[SynergyIso7]

23 minutes ago, Dagenham_Dave said:

I have to say I haven't seen much difference in this, there was supposed to be more contextual information about different levels of unhappiness, but I've not seen much, if any, evidence so far. I am running an FM23 save in the new game, so no idea if that would have any effect or not. 

There's a lot of black and white context. There's frustration when trying to get your point across and there's not an answer available to explain what you want to say. 

All this player power stuff doesn't happen in real life like it does in the game. It's a rare occurrence, not every player is hellbent on destroying a manager. 

[andu1]

AI are using too often a mezalla in a 4-4-2 which is totally unrealistic.

All teams that use 4-4-2 IRL have 2 holding midfielders. Using a mezalla would mean suicide..

Please SI replace the AI 4-4-2 WITH 4-4-2 DM as they are unable to defend with flat 442