Low res skins...disappear? (FM24)

[Napolitanos21]

The last years i use skins like Yacs, Heffem and FME-Zealand's skin. FME skin was very friendly for Low Res Laptop screens (mine is 1366x768). Also it was easy to modify some panels it even if your are not a skinner (not even close to that level) with a little help from this forum members and moderators. At the moment im reading there is not planning for release a version for FME-Zealand's 2024. Also Yacs skin and Heffem are not making anymore low res versions for a long time. 

It's sad that none of the great skinners out there treat the lower screens users like they don't exist. At the moment low res users have ZERO options to play with a beautiful, detailing skin, without missing a lot of informations and having huge buggy panels at our screens, like the ''mainstream'' 1920x1080 versions works at Low resolution Laptops. I know its very early yet but this kind of skins year by year looks like endangered species. Im afraid to just edit the config file of FME 23 just to 24.0.0 because i dont want to have crushes and lose my trust in the game.

So if anyone have a plan for a low res skin please place it here. I'm sure I'm not the only one who is worried about the disappearance of these versions of skins. We can help each other (i think). 

[JustHowie]

I believe sas has a laptop version, I myself have been trying to balance the just skin to work at lower resolutions it's kind of hard to strike the right balance where things look right for high and low

[TCSSkin]

I understand where you are coming from completely, TCS used to be a low res skin when that was all i had. It all boils down to the difficulty creating low res skins, the reason that the base skins are so sparse is because they need to support every possible resolution, and with making skint that adapt resolution wise you have two options. Adaptable, or lots of information. Making a skin that supports multiple resolutions takes a high degree of skill and especially time, considering skinning isn't a paid hobby and done entirely in people's free time, its understandable why people don't want to commit that time. TCS for example, isn't built to support low resolution screens and even if I wanted to, I physically do not have the time to make a seperate skin.

Another reason is, simply put it's not worth the time or effort that it takes, taking a look at the Steam hardware survey in September of this year which is essentially opt in. Skin makers can focus on the displays that most people have, combined 1080p and 1440p are over 75% of the survey, anything underneath 1080p adds up to 9.53%

Lamenting people for not dedicating hours upon hours to cater to 9.53% of a userbase simply isn't fair in my mind.

 

[snowofman]

17 minutes ago, Napolitanos21 said:

The last years i use skins like Yacs, Heffem and FME-Zealand's skin. FME skin was very friendly for Low Res Laptop screens (mine is 1366x768). Also it was easy to modify some panels it even if your are not a skinner (not even close to that level) with a little help from this forum members and moderators. At the moment im reading there is not planning for release a version for FME-Zealand's 2024. Also Yacs skin and Heffem are not making anymore low res versions for a long time. 

It's sad that none of the great skinners out there treat the lower screens users like they don't exist. At the moment low res users have ZERO options to play with a beautiful, detailing skin, without missing a lot of informations and having huge buggy panels at our screens, like the ''mainstream'' 1920x1080 versions works at Low resolution Laptops. I know its very early yet but this kind of skins year by year looks like endangered species. Im afraid to just edit the config file of FME 23 just to 24.0.0 because i dont want to have crushes and lose my trust in the game.

So if anyone have a plan for a low res skin please place it here. I'm sure I'm not the only one who is worried about the disappearance of these versions of skins. We can help each other (i think). 

justhowie is correct, the sas24 skin has a leptop version aswell for 1366x768

that said, it's still early in the process and most don't release a skin until after beta. just to get rid of most bugs and stuff while working on it

So i would give it abit of time and then roam around the wise net to see what has been released, not every skin gets in here as a thread

But we do have some "great skinners" in here and even if they don't have focus on low res skins, they are still doing great work  

[Napolitanos21]

10 minutes ago, JustHowie said:

I believe sas has a laptop version, I myself have been trying to balance the just skin to work at lower resolutions it's kind of hard to strike the right balance where things look right for high and low

I try yesterday this skin and it doesnt work good for my resolution. Maybe its not for 1366x768 but for bigger laptop screens. Laptop doesnt means 1366x768. I use this with icons only sidebar and even the sidebar doesnt works normaly.

[snowofman]

6 minutes ago, Napolitanos21 said:

I try yesterday this skin and it doesnt work good for my resolution. Maybe its not for 1366x768 but for bigger laptop screens. Laptop doesnt means 1366x768. I use this with icons only sidebar and even the sidebar doesnt works normaly.

try with 85% zoom

[Napolitanos21]

Im not blame anyone for anything. I use your skin now and i try to make it playable for me. I know its very hard for the skinners to cover many resolutions. But imagine how hard is for amateurs with no idea at this things to turn an ''unplayable'' skin to ''playable''.

The statistics says we are less (the low res users) but we still exist, we dont have the money to buy bigger laptops or buy PC's. Im also prefer a big screen resolution but i cant have it at the moment. Im buying the game 7 years in a row and i try to make more and more people recognize how good is. Im also making free facepacks from AI and photoshop to make it more realistic, spending hours everyday too for zero money, just for FM fans. Im here for help or information, not for blame the skinners if you get it like this.

Anyway this post is for someone who have a low res screen and hunting a skin or its working to make one. If someone can help this small but existing piece of FM players is welcomed. Skinner or not. 

34 minutes ago, TCSSkin said:

I understand where you are coming from completely, TCS used to be a low res skin when that was all i had. It all boils down to the difficulty creating low res skins, the reason that the base skins are so sparse is because they need to support every possible resolution, and with making skint that adapt resolution wise you have two options. Adaptable, or lots of information. Making a skin that supports multiple resolutions takes a high degree of skill and especially time, considering skinning isn't a paid hobby and done entirely in people's free time, its understandable why people don't want to commit that time. TCS for example, isn't built to support low resolution screens and even if I wanted to, I physically do not have the time to make a seperate skin.

Another reason is, simply put it's not worth the time or effort that it takes, taking a look at the Steam hardware survey in September of this year which is essentially opt in. Skin makers can focus on the displays that most people have, combined 1080p and 1440p are over 75% of the survey, anything underneath 1080p adds up to 9.53%

Lamenting people for not dedicating hours upon hours to cater to 9.53% of a userbase simply isn't fair in my mind.

 

 

[Napolitanos21]

19 minutes ago, snowofman said:

try with 85% zoom

The letters, pics and fonts gonna be really tiny with 85%. The panels sizes is the main thing. The letters and pics looks ok with 100%. Speaking for Sas laptop skin. not for others for that.

[snowofman]

7 minutes ago, Napolitanos21 said:

The letters, pics and fonts gonna be really tiny with 85%. The panels sizes is the main thing. The letters and pics looks ok with 100%. Speaking for Sas laptop skin. not for others for that.

ahh okay, yeah it's optimized for 1366x768 85% as the size on laptops are making skin for them hard and imo, not worth the time spend.

but still alot are going through it and makes them in the hopes some may find joy in them, but as said so many times on this forum by many ppl... it's impossible to make everyone happy.. i hope you find something you can use and that fits your needs  

 

[TCSSkin]

Fwiw, my first ever proper skin was converting Vitrex to laptop resolution in 2016, I had a tiny bit of knowledge beforehand but that was my first proper knowledge

[GIMN]

1. The full game hasn't even been released yet.  Early Access hasn't even been available for 100 hours.  Relax.
2. I expect most skinners started because they couldn't find something that was particular to their needs.  No better time to start than now.
3. There is real challenge to make something that works at all resolutions.  Many in the past have, like SAS, released multiple skins to cater.  That's double the work.  And yet you even complain about those.  Why would people continue to double their workload?
4. Even if it wasn't double the work, it is an exercise in compromise.  The best low res skin would almost certainly be built by someone who uses low res all the time.  So...back to point 2...no better time to start learning/making skins than now.  Be the solution.

[keysi]

I made low-resolution skins for FM21 and FM22. They were designed for 1366x768. I did that mainly because I wanted to have some custom skin for my own playing while I was on the small laptop outside of my usual spot. 

My advice would be to take the Base FM skin and just try to adapt a couple of screens like club overview or player overview. I had a lot of edits in my 'normal' custom skin but I remember I deleted most of them for that low-resolution version because it would take me months to edit everything. 

It's all about try & error. It's easy to say there's nothing for one group and there's everything for another group. 

[Napolitanos21]

As I said before but no one seems to read it. Last year's FME skin released and then never update cause the skinner "retires" from the project. So i modify many panels by my self for the first time ever. But then I have a good and friendly pattern to make my tries and errors. It takes months to make a not buggy thing even with a ready canvas. If any panel made for high res it's very hard to have success. I can't be the solution so easily cause I'm not a skinner, games graphic designer and I never be one cause I don't have the time to learn a whole new language like a pro and maybe i don't have the skills at all. I already give a lot of my free time to explore the skinning language from 0. My whories is clear. Year by year the low res skins are disappearing. If the skinners with experience and skills leave completely these skins the only lost in this situation has been Football Manager and SI. Also FM25 they say it's a new era. This is mean possibly more difficulity with new stuff to learn even for the skinners. 

 

Im saying once again. I know it's still early but already are out there 10 and more skins and only one can be a bit close to low res. This is make me whorie about the future of this kind of skins. 

It's not a simple thing for someone who had no idea to fighting from zero and at the end of the day he can't play and enjoy the game who loves and supports with his money for years. To be honest SI and FM team it's time to recognize the problem with their base skins and make something much better by them selfs who supports everyones screens and the skinners dont need to change the whole skin to make the game enjoyable. Not anymore like as menial and unimportant job. The skin it's very important! 

That's my whories. I hope you understand. 

[snowofman]

8 hours ago, Napolitanos21 said:

As I said before but no one seems to read it. Last year's FME skin released and then never update cause the skinner "retires" from the project. So i modify many panels by my self for the first time ever. But then I have a good and friendly pattern to make my tries and errors. It takes months to make a not buggy thing even with a ready canvas. If any panel made for high res it's very hard to have success. I can't be the solution so easily cause I'm not a skinner, games graphic designer and I never be one cause I don't have the time to learn a whole new language like a pro and maybe i don't have the skills at all. I already give a lot of my free time to explore the skinning language from 0. My whories is clear. Year by year the low res skins are disappearing. If the skinners with experience and skills leave completely these skins the only lost in this situation has been Football Manager and SI. Also FM25 they say it's a new era. This is mean possibly more difficulity with new stuff to learn even for the skinners. 

 

Im saying once again. I know it's still early but already are out there 10 and more skins and only one can be a bit close to low res. This is make me whorie about the future of this kind of skins. 

It's not a simple thing for someone who had no idea to fighting from zero and at the end of the day he can't play and enjoy the game who loves and supports with his money for years. To be honest SI and FM team it's time to recognize the problem with their base skins and make something much better by them selfs who supports everyones screens and the skinners dont need to change the whole skin to make the game enjoyable. Not anymore like as menial and unimportant job. The skin it's very important! 

That's my whories. I hope you understand. 

I understand your frustrations and wishes/hopes

but the fact still is that making a skin takes a very long time, and making a skin for laptops are twice the time of a normal skin

as said, its still early in the game cycles and lots can still come out, but i agree that more and more are moving away from making laptop skin simply because they either don't feel it's worth it if they don't use it themself or that maybe changed from laptop to desktop themself (or got a external screen)

The community is year after year given something for free in most cases "lets use the SAS24 laptop skin as example" it's optimized for 1366x768 85% which is the normal resolution for most smaller laptops and if you for some reason can't use it because of the zoom, then i'm sorry to say that the problem lies at your feet.

 

Not liking a skin for whatever reason is perfectly fine, we all have preferences and needs of how we would love a skin to look. but it does limit the choices of usable skins.

Learning XML to make a custom skin is no small achivement, but being a pro at it is not really needed as "almost" everything you'll ever need is premade for you from SI side and we just move things around to fit the creators need

and thats how it often start and i dare to say that "almost" every skin out there is made because the skins that were avaiable didnt have / live up to what the creator were looking for to enjoy and play the game like he want to, so that he/she wants to share his work is only a bonus for the whole community and not something he's forced to by any means, 

And yes.. There is years where few skins are missing, that can as you say yourself be down to ppl "retire" from skining.. but some are also stopping because the demands and or negativity towards what has been made gets too much.

 

Anyway: at the end of the day, we as a community have to remember that Skin is made by unpaid volunteers and given to the community to enjoy, so if ppl don't like something, pick another skin or make the changes yourself (and yes it's not easy)  

 

I hope there will be something that fits your needs and that you enjoy using. Happy gaming!

[Napolitanos21]

21 minutes ago, snowofman said:

I understand your frustrations and wishes/hopes

but the fact still is that making a skin takes a very long time, and making a skin for laptops are twice the time of a normal skin

as said, its still early in the game cycles and lots can still come out, but i agree that more and more are moving away from making laptop skin simply because they either don't feel it's worth it if they don't use it themself or that maybe changed from laptop to desktop themself (or got a external screen)

The community is year after year given something for free in most cases "lets use the SAS24 laptop skin as example" it's optimized for 1366x768 85% which is the normal resolution for most smaller laptops and if you for some reason can't use it because of the zoom, then i'm sorry to say that the problem lies at your feet.

 

Not liking a skin for whatever reason is perfectly fine, we all have preferences and needs of how we would love a skin to look. but it does limit the choices of usable skins.

Learning XML to make a custom skin is no small achivement, but being a pro at it is not really needed as "almost" everything you'll ever need is premade for you from SI side and we just move things around to fit the creators need

and thats how it often start and i dare to say that "almost" every skin out there is made because the skins that were avaiable didnt have / live up to what the creator were looking for to enjoy and play the game like he want to, so that he/she wants to share his work is only a bonus for the whole community and not something he's forced to by any means, 

And yes.. There is years where few skins are missing, that can as you say yourself be down to ppl "retire" from skining.. but some are also stopping because the demands and or negativity towards what has been made gets too much.

 

Anyway: at the end of the day, we as a community have to remember that Skin is made by unpaid volunteers and given to the community to enjoy, so if ppl don't like something, pick another skin or make the changes yourself (and yes it's not easy)  

 

I hope there will be something that fits your needs and that you enjoy using. Happy gaming!

Yes i know why some skinners doesnt share their skins anymore....the negativity is huge from people out there. But somehow negativity affects 99% the low res creators and everything new doesnt support low res. Btw I give a try to Sas24 laptop version last night. At 85% dezoom i need microscope to make the letters and pics visible. At 95% its a lot better but many panels doesnt fits good or leaves empty space (like player overview profile). I spend the night editing some things but not everything with success. Ηundreds of folders and XML's and suddenly not so friendly for an amateur to edit even simple thins like heights and withdt of panels, pictures, portraits, logos and pop ups sizes or add something from another skin. Im not giving up but its day 5 without playing the game at all. 

[_Ben_]

To me - this feels like a ridiculous argument. ‘There are no low res skins’ vs ‘I’m fed up with skinners because they don’t care for low res skins.’ You can’t moan about skinners and still expect them to skin to meet your needs. As TCS said, less than 10% of people use a resolution classed as ‘low’ so why would double the work be necessary?

You’ve failed to see that we all started from where you are. Nobody here works for SI and creates these for a living. I tried to make a ‘low res Statman’ but it was impossible to build and test - blind - as I can’t mirror that on my own setup. How would you expect a novice to do that? How would you expect a novice to create any skin? You learn.

If you want to make a skin suitable for your own setup, I feel the problem has to be solved by you making one. That’s what we all did. 

[Grootinho]

Personnally i joined skinning community two years ago with the help of @TCSSkin and last year @_Ben_ and @GIMNmainly. And which this experience i can say some things probably already said.

First of all we generally prepare a skin to fit our needs and we made it for free with a large amount of hours on it.

My configuration is Macbook 16", 2 screen FHD 23" and a laptop 15" FHD.

Explain me how and why i should take a massive extra time to adapt it to low res without any possibilty to test those configuration ? It's the same problem for the extra wide resolution btw.

I really think you have to put you at the place of the skinners guys which spend days and days to custom this and offer them to the community. Really the workload is huge. 

[Napolitanos21]

3 hours ago, _Ben_ said:

To me - this feels like a ridiculous argument. ‘There are no low res skins’ vs ‘I’m fed up with skinners because they don’t care for low res skins.’ You can’t moan about skinners and still expect them to skin to meet your needs. As TCS said, less than 10% of people use a resolution classed as ‘low’ so why would double the work be necessary?

You’ve failed to see that we all started from where you are. Nobody here works for SI and creates these for a living. I tried to make a ‘low res Statman’ but it was impossible to build and test - blind - as I can’t mirror that on my own setup. How would you expect a novice to do that? How would you expect a novice to create any skin? You learn.

If you want to make a skin suitable for your own setup, I feel the problem has to be solved by you making one. That’s what we all did. 

You lose the point. In FM19 there are 7-8 skins for low res, last year FM23 had 2-3 and the one (FME) this year is out of the race, today its one at the moment and its not exactly for low res as i said before.. Year by year i see this ''poor and unimportant less than 10%'' with very limited options. Im sorry for not buying a new expensive laptop with a big screen to make the things easier. Really sorry, its not raining money here in Greece and i have personal life, priorities and problems who needs my money more than a new big screen. Also a 10% its not a small piece for a company. Its a big lose (if they lose this 10%). 

If you cant help me please dont waste my time with this kind of comments and read more carefully what I wrote. Im not against the skinners, i just notice something and calls for some help. Its so bad?

If you dont care just ignore it. I never said about paid skinners who living from that. The SI graphics team its different story and they work for the company, paid from the company, So them (i dont know their names) needs to be more skillful and learns from the unpaid skinners. They paid for this and i pay them for this every year. I am not the one who needs to learn. Not the first in the line at all.

[_Ben_]

12 minutes ago, Napolitanos21 said:

So them (i dont know their names) needs to be more skillful and learns from the unpaid skinners. They paid for this and i pay them for this every year. I am not the one who needs to learn. Not the first in the line at all.

I don't want this to be an argument and I don't want to step outside of any of the rules of the forum but you've been told by quite a few people that this is not the fault of anyone - just how both us amateur skinnings and how the SI devs work. Maybe this is your chance to learn how to skin? We all have personal lives, priorities and problems like you say you do, but this could be your chance. Do it right and that 10% you speak of would be very happy with you.

[TCSSkin]

Going to close this thread, I think all that needed to be said, has, and I don't think we're that far off things starting to get a bit nasty.