Qualified teams not being recognized? Nation rules error.

[owncredible]

I am trying to convert my realistic USA database into the FM24 editor. When I ran my initial tests, I ran across this error where it doesn't seem to be recognizing my NCAA teams:

I understand that when converting files from one game to successor, there are going to be some conflicts that I have to resolve. However, this is confusing and frustrating me as I have the qualified teams already set (see picture below).

I tried to look on the forums here for answers, but none of the existing threads seemed to apply to my situation. Does anyone know what could be causing this? If needed, I can send my file over via a private message. Though, I don't expect anyone to look through every part of the file, which is why I'm hoping to get some guidance on what to look for if possible.

[Wolf_pd]

All teams are still there and have the competition set?

[owncredible]

5 minutes ago, Wolf_pd said:

All teams are still there and have the competition set?

Correct. All teams divisions are set to NCAA Division I and their secondary divisions are set to their respective conferences they play in.

[owncredible]

The error mentioned above is for when I try to test all divisions. I am now getting another error when I click on an individual division to test:

I'm not sure if they're correlated.

Edited November 8, 2023 by owncredible

[Wolf_pd]

55 minutes ago, owncredible said:

The error mentioned above is for when I try to test all divisions. I am now getting another error when I click on an individual division to test:

I'm not sure if they're correlated.

Are there any teams in there that do not take part NCAA division 1?

[owncredible]

9 minutes ago, Wolf_pd said:

Are there any teams in there that do not take part NCAA division 1?

Yes, the National Independent Soccer Association is a separate league, and none of the teams are remotely involved in NCAA Division 1 or listed as being a part of that competition. For the NCAA, there are USSL D2 subdivisions with teams listed that have the NCAA as a parent competition (as the NCAA utilizes the United States Soccer Leagues Division Two competition). Though, they are not actually a part of the structure. I just did a test to remove these affiliations and teams, but that didn't do anything as well. Going beyond that, if I remove the NCAA division as a whole from the rule set, the error turns to MLS where it can't find the rules for 29 teams (which I do know the cause of that error).

Additionally, as I have my Ultimate USA fictional database, I have now tested that as well. The UUSA database also utilizes the USSL D2 competition, but the structure is different from the realistic database. After testing, I am also receiving an error where the conference I used is unable to find the teams  (keep in mind the error is different as I have the rules structured differently. I don't use qualified teams in this one):

I am starting to believe that there may be an issue with the United States Soccer League Division Two and it's respective USSL D2 subdivisions.

[themodelcitizen]

Is it only created teams that it's not picking up?

I wonder if you could go through and mass edit them to change the competition to NCAA division 1, even if it says that already, if it was imported from FM23 it might need to register that as a change in the new editor for some reason

Edited November 8, 2023 by themodelcitizen

[owncredible]

12 minutes ago, themodelcitizen said:

Is it only created teams that it's not picking up?

I wonder if you could go through and mass edit them to change the competition to NCAA division 1, even if it says that already, if it was imported from FM23 it might need to register that as a change in the new editor for some reason

I just tried that, and it didn't work. Actually, I think that was one of the first things I tried last night when I first noticed the issue.

About 10 minutes ago, I tried to create a test league and added 13 teams to it. One of those teams was a recently created club, and another was a preexisting team (after you asked if it is only created teams). Neither of them seemed to show up either, and it still gave me the "No Teams Found" error. So, the problem seems to be beyond the USSL D2 division. 

[themodelcitizen]

Yeah that's odd. Could be editor bugs. Does removing the "secondary division" stuff do anything? Unlikely I know, just brainstorming. You'd have to organize it separately obviously if that was the case

[themodelcitizen]

Are they set as academy teams? Maybe it thinks those aren't "first teams" (in your "get qualified teams" entry) anymore?

[owncredible]

7 minutes ago, themodelcitizen said:

Yeah that's odd. Could be editor bugs. Does removing the "secondary division" stuff do anything? Unlikely I know, just brainstorming. You'd have to organize it separately obviously if that was the case

Nope, still the same error.

7 minutes ago, themodelcitizen said:

Are they set as academy teams? Maybe it thinks those aren't "first teams" (in your "get qualified teams" entry) anymore?

Not that I’m aware of. They do have a min (17) and max age (23) and the contracts are set to amateur for the players, but that’s about it.

[themodelcitizen]

Might think they're U23s? Doubtful but try removing that "team type" entry from the "get qualified teams" entry. Otherwise I'm stuck too. Hopefully they address this stuff

[owncredible]

5 minutes ago, themodelcitizen said:

Might think they're U23s? Doubtful but try removing that "team type" entry from the "get qualified teams" entry. Otherwise I'm stuck too. Hopefully they address this stuff

I also tried U23s and just now removed the "team type" entry. Both still resulted in error.

I'm going to take a break from testing for now. Seems like I'm getting nowhere. Very frustrating as I wanted to get this done, so I could actually play.

[themodelcitizen]

Playing?! Lol, but looking back at it again, what competition has that "qualified teams" entry above? It it NCAA Division 1? If so, you should be able to get away with just putting "get all teams from division" under "teams" and scrapping "qualified teams" entirely if that's what's confusing it. If that's for like a College Cup type stage, you could get the teams in a different way

[owncredible]

9 minutes ago, themodelcitizen said:

Playing?! Lol, but looking back at it again, what competition has that "qualified teams" entry above? It it NCAA Division 1? If so, you should be able to get away with just putting "get all teams from division" under "teams" and scrapping "qualified teams" entirely if that's what's confusing it. If that's for like a College Cup type stage, you could get the teams in a different way

Doing that seemed to take away the error. So annoying it was that simple, and I thought it was something else. Overthinking at it’s finest. Now, I’m getting an MLS error, but I’m pretty sure I know what’s causing it.

Edited November 8, 2023 by owncredible

[Dallan]

Interesting thread. I was getting a similar error trying to import a database I tweaked for personal use last year that used a similar framework for the NCAA (replacing USSL D2 so that the hardcoding for US academies sends players there after they age out).

When I removed "qualified teams" similarly to the plan you settled on (it seemed redundant) - I was still getting the "no teams found for stage 0 of <subconference>" error you talk about in your UUSA database. Did you ever find a fix there? I wonder if there's some issue where Get All Teams from Division is having trouble with secondary divisions?

 

Edited November 9, 2023 by Dallan

[themodelcitizen]

19 hours ago, owncredible said:

Doing that seemed to take away the error. So annoying it was that simple, and I thought it was something else. Overthinking at it’s finest. Now, I’m getting an MLS error, but I’m pretty sure I know what’s causing it.

You're welcome, although (and for @Dallan too) why "qualified teams"? Seems like they tightened that up so it only works for teams who qualify through a process somewhere. 

I also wonder if secondary divisions being used this way could cause issues with news items and Board expectations? The team's "division" not actually generating any fixtures could cause issues. Secondary divisions are more for stuff like Brazil's state leagues. Subdivisions might work in the stupid game logic better even if they're more complex 

[Dallan]

Re: why qualified teams, there are some Advanced Rules decision made with the underlying structure I think @owncredible and I were both building on top of that could be revisited. As I'm sure you know, doing anything in the USA rules is a mess where things you think will work don't, and things that you don't expect to work work for reasons you don't understand and can't explain, so when you find something that works it becomes gospel. 

Even when I move all the teams with that conference as "secondary" into that conference as "division" and remove the secondary division entirely it still throws the same "no teams found for stage 0" error. Maybe if I try doing it for all the other conferences? (edit: no, still doesn't work  )

You're likely right that subdivisions would work better and simpler (assuming it doesn't cause problems with scheduling out-of-conference games, which was done under the main "NCAA" competition)). I'll see about trying that when I have time.

at the very least, by the time I actually get to play this game instead of editing it SI will have worked out most some of the early bugs

Edited November 9, 2023 by Dallan

[themodelcitizen]

Oh yeah, I'm tempted to start editing so that by the time it's all patched up I can get a game going I had a really interconnected USL2 on FM18 but haven't made a big US database since then (i.e. with the Canadian teams leaving), and haven't converted it to NCAA before, but managed to do a lot just within the parent division. Inter-conference games could be a hidden stage and send results to both conferences. Separate hidden stages can be set up and associated with a competition ID just for awards, like if you want only certain schools to be eligible that don't necessarily cross-reference to specific (sub)divisions

[owncredible]

2 hours ago, Dallan said:

Interesting thread. I was getting a similar error trying to import a database I tweaked for personal use last year that used a similar framework for the NCAA (replacing USSL D2 so that the hardcoding for US academies sends players there after they age out).

When I removed "qualified teams" similarly to the plan you settled on (it seemed redundant) - I was still getting the "no teams found for stage 0 of <subconference>" error you talk about in your UUSA database. Did you ever find a fix there? I wonder if there's some issue where Get All Teams from Division is having trouble with secondary divisions?

 

No, that error still was taking place. Though, I really haven’t done much testing with that yet as I was focused on the realistic DB.

1 hour ago, themodelcitizen said:

You're welcome, although (and for @Dallan too) why "qualified teams"? Seems like they tightened that up so it only works for teams who qualify through a process somewhere. 

I also wonder if secondary divisions being used this way could cause issues with news items and Board expectations? The team's "division" not actually generating any fixtures could cause issues. Secondary divisions are more for stuff like Brazil's state leagues. Subdivisions might work in the stupid game logic better even if they're more complex 

And yes, pretty much all of what @Dallan stated is true for me as well. I’m more so inheriting the structure rather than creating it myself. Eventually, I’d like to go back through and see what improvements I could make, but I don’t have much time. I’m also not as experienced, so that’s a factor as well.

For my UUSA database in FM23, I did try to use a different structure for the NCAA, but the newgens didn’t generate like they do in the realistic DB. So, I also have to figure out how I can do that.

Edited November 9, 2023 by owncredible

[themodelcitizen]

19 minutes ago, owncredible said:

No, that error still was taking place. Though, I really haven’t done much testing with that yet as I was focused on the realistic DB.

And yes, pretty much all of what @Dallan stated is true for me as well. I’m more so inheriting the structure rather than creating it myself. Eventually, I’d like to go back through and see what improvements I could make, but I don’t have much time. I’m also not as experienced, so that’s a factor as well.

For my UUSA database in FM23, I did try to use a different structure for the NCAA, but the newgens didn’t generate like they do in the realistic DB. So, I also have to figure out how I can do that.

At one point (maybe still) the newgens only generated in the Academy Division and then after a year or two were (randomly) assigned to a team in the USL2 divisions (but not South Central, Metro, Valley, Deep North, Lone Star, or Chesapeake for some reason). The USL2 divisions (usually repurposed for NCAA) didn't actually generate their own newgens, they would get them from Academy teams. Lots of potential there for having the academy league operate as high school nationals, but that's obviously an even more insane amount of work

[owncredible]

1 minute ago, themodelcitizen said:

At one point (maybe still) the newgens only generated in the Academy Division and then after a year or two were (randomly) assigned to a team in the USL2 divisions (but not South Central, Metro, Valley, Deep North, Lone Star, or Chesapeake for some reason). The USL2 divisions (usually repurposed for NCAA) didn't actually generate their own newgens, they would get them from Academy teams. Lots of potential there for having the academy league operate as high school nationals, but that's obviously an even more insane amount of work

Thanks for the clarification. I do remember you mentioning that before. Also, I didn’t know that some of the divisions weren’t assigned any newgens, so I’ll keep that in mind as well. I’m not sure if that’s changed, but I may have used some of those divisions for my Ultimate USA NCAA structure.

[Dallan]

On 09/11/2023 at 13:16, owncredible said:

No, that error still was taking place. Though, I really haven’t done much testing with that yet as I was focused on the realistic DB.

I actually seem to have found an answer to this while trying to update GUM's US DB from last year to 24 (hat tip to @SaintsCanada for figuring it out and TMC for bringing it to my atttention in the Japan thread): apparently if you're getting this "no teams found for stage 0" error in the regional sub-divisions for, say, the NCAA, it can be gotten past by adding the teams that should be in that sub-division to the sub-division's Registered Teams (either in the DB entry for the sub-division, or in the sub-division's advanced rules). As long as you add the registered teams, It doesn't seem like you have to change the stage to use Get Registered Teams instead of Get All Teams from Division (which makes no sense but, you know what, okay).

After I do this for all 20-odd NCAA conferences and their 200-odd teams I'll be able to confirm whether it's playable, but this was the only thing left for me to fix to get the GUM file working so I'm pretty chuffed, and if you are still running into this error I thought it'd be useful for you to know. I see you're working on a realistic US DB this year and I'm looking forward to seeing your work, but it'll be good to actually be able to play in the meantime!