I am struggling, a moan and a plea.

[Thirkwood]

Ive just taken over Fulham towards the end of 2028 they had been having a rough season and where 19th, i come in and switch to the back up keeper and we win our first game 1-0 then a really good 3-0 against Brighton followed. My keeper having a 7.7 then a 7.6 and my defenders holding a big improvement between 6.9 and 7.4.

Play Everton and had very close XG before they got a pen in the 84th min. i was loosing 5-1. they score the pen and get another and im just again finding myself so done. 7-1. 7-1!!! I just dont know what im doing anymore apparently. I had such a great time with the Beta but since the full release ive downloaded a skin and im simming games because if i Sim the team plays well if i actually try and use the match engine to enjoy the game 8/10 times my team capitulate in the most stupid ways. I was at Hull, checked our strengths and where we played well and built a tactic around it. we would play well loads of the ball, loads of chances, high xg and every game ended in a draw when they scored their only 2 shots. Im watching the A.I play silky smooth one touch football while my players seem to be using rice pudding for boots. People said nothing changed match engine wise since the beta but i find it so hard to stomach as in the beta i had a 5 year save and was Loving almost everything since full release i feel im struggling to get that same enjoyment. 

Now the moan is out the way does anyone have any ideas, thoughts agreeing or disagreeing I just need some rationalisation that im no going insane that the Beta was great but the release feels worse off. Just anything to keep me going on this game i usually love but am feeling more and more like im falling away from

[FrazT]

There were no changes to the ME in the full release, so you will need to look at your games more closely and find out what you can do to affect the results.

[bigmattb28]

Commenting to see how many replies you get that say it's your tactics

[xkvicd]

Another proof that percived quality of FM games is not determined by the game itself but how well the save is going.

[Dadecane]

Its normal to struggle early on in a new job, u need to find a way to grind out results, the wins will come. Dont let up. 
 

i had a save in fm22 where I started in Ibiza, got hired by Villareal, took the chance at a bigger gig so excited, my god I couldnt get that villareal side to win a game for the life of me, I got fired in 4 months. It bugged the hell out of me. Thankfully, Real Betis was struggling at the time, Fired pellegrini and hired me. Betis, and its players, fit me like a glove from the get. I immediately finished top 6, went to europa league where we lost in semis the next season, and Finished 3rd that year making UCL. 
 

im confident I woulda straightened things out at Villareal, but I was never able to survive the initial slump and that was it. 
 

keep your head up

[kevhamster]

How is the team morale, and how are the dynamics looking?  I've found these to be quite important.

[Ngoc]

but it's too easy that's what I keep reading from many

Quote

This game is as easy as ever

This game is as easy as ever, with Real Zaragoza Liga Hypermotion I am leading the league and I am in the cup final after beating Barcelona 3-1, Getafe 7-1 and Atletico Madrid 4-1.

I hope that next year with the new version of Unity the difficulty will be fixed, once you get the morale and tactical familiarity you are unstoppable.

https://steamcommunity.com/app/2252570/discussions/0/3957036254250574725/

This only proves to me that is impossible to please everybody and you have to remove the extreme whine on one side and the other because they are probably a 0.00001% very vocal.

True is **** happens luck is part of this game is not math you can influence stuff to a degree but like ANY GAME luck is part of the equation (like when you roll dice in a board game) 

The fun part is to react as a man to difficulties accept them live through them and solve them and if you have no fun go to another game it's your free time nobody forces you to do something you don't enjoy. I don't think a post like this gives any valuable information to the devs if I were devs and read something like this I wouldn't have an answer because a lot of people say the exact opposite which is crazy easy to win even with a very weak team. (as i proved with my link)

So good luck with your whine i hope you will enjoy the game...my advice? Start a new save with a different team and see how it goes or endure it as a man and try to fight the crazy unlucky odd!

Edited November 14, 2023 by Ngoc

[Dadecane]

I personally think the goal thing is overstated as well, possibly a bit high yes but I prefer that to it being a bit low. 
 

i just took a new job in my third season and im into my 4th game without a goal lol. Three 1-0 losses and one 0-0 tie. 
 

im not saying im not saying a lot of 4-3’s around the league yes I see it, but for every 4-3 I also see tons of weeks where nobody scores more than 2. 
 

i prefer they fix the squad building and rotation and the player interactions before touching the goals per game. 
 

just my 0,02€

[Thirkwood]

On 14/11/2023 at 03:52, FrazT said:

There were no changes to the ME in the full release, so you will need to look at your games more closely and find out what you can do to affect the results.

I have been told this and it just further confused me as to why i had so much fun with the Beta but not since the full release. Im not a new player i do my best to interoperate the im given and use that for the tactics, options. I dont like to plug and play others tactics but coming back to this post 2 seasons later (forgot to tick to follow my own topic) it was honestly just my keepers (yes all 3 of them) seem to have spaghetti fingers, we would concede multiple goals and they where all tanking between 5.8 and 6.2 averages even when my defence would have high 6's but every game the opposition keeper had 7.0+ and thats just leaving me more frustrated.

[Thirkwood]

On 14/11/2023 at 08:27, xkvicd said:

Another proof that percived quality of FM games is not determined by the game itself but how well the save is going.

Not true, to go back to my beta save i could get my arse handed to me but still have a good time. i would have something to take from it like we lost this game 3-1 but i can see my CB had a stinker but at least our link up play was good. Im not a player who wants to win everygame at all times. Hell i got through the season from this post and survived and finished 15 (some how) but it was a slog because so often it felt like my striker couldnt score if the ball was on the line and the keeper was haaving a brew. The entire team i had taken over where over paid and underperforming and that probably contributed to the issues but i disagree with the idea that because i was having a bad save im saying its a bad game i even state i had a great time with the beta, just been struggling since the full release.

[Thirkwood]

On 14/11/2023 at 09:11, Dadecane said:

Its normal to struggle early on in a new job, u need to find a way to grind out results, the wins will come. Dont let up. 
 

i had a save in fm22 where I started in Ibiza, got hired by Villareal, took the chance at a bigger gig so excited, my god I couldnt get that villareal side to win a game for the life of me, I got fired in 4 months. It bugged the hell out of me. Thankfully, Real Betis was struggling at the time, Fired pellegrini and hired me. Betis, and its players, fit me like a glove from the get. I immediately finished top 6, went to europa league where we lost in semis the next season, and Finished 3rd that year making UCL. 
 

im confident I woulda straightened things out at Villareal, but I was never able to survive the initial slump and that was it. 
 

keep your head up

I appreciate this response, we did end up grinding out some results and i ended up lasting till my contract expired at the end of the next season. May genuinely of been the team. all very overpaid, the keeper was on like 140k and had a career average of 6.5 before i even touched him etc. Think i was just dealing with the frustration from going from a really fun beta save to what was quickly feeling like a rough journeyman. At Strasborg now, keeping my head up 

[Thirkwood]

On 14/11/2023 at 09:55, kevhamster said:

How is the team morale, and how are the dynamics looking?  I've found these to be quite important.

Moral and Dynamics where pretty good going into the game, not so much after but we bounced back to a lower midtable finish in the end. Genuinely just think i had some bad players and that was hindering the experience. 

[Thirkwood]

On 14/11/2023 at 16:41, Ngoc said:

but it's too easy that's what I keep reading from many

https://steamcommunity.com/app/2252570/discussions/0/3957036254250574725/

This only proves to me that is impossible to please everybody and you have to remove the extreme whine on one side and the other because they are probably a 0.00001% very vocal.

True is **** happens luck is part of this game is not math you can influence stuff to a degree but like ANY GAME luck is part of the equation (like when you roll dice in a board game) 

The fun part is to react as a man to difficulties accept them live through them and solve them and if you have no fun go to another game it's your free time nobody forces you to do something you don't enjoy. I don't think a post like this gives any valuable information to the devs if I were devs and read something like this I wouldn't have an answer because a lot of people say the exact opposite which is crazy easy to win even with a very weak team. (as i proved with my link)

So good luck with your whine i hope you will enjoy the game...my advice? Start a new save with a different team and see how it goes or endure it as a man and try to fight the crazy unlucky odd!

Yep this is fair dinkum. I think i was just feeling very done at that point and seem to be struggling with main game after a successful beta run. Popped it in here in general discussion not for the devs but for maybe ideas and feedback or more just an ear i guess. As the only person in my friends who likes football and simulation games i did not really know where else to turn as an outlet. either way i stuck it out for another season and a half. cant opf been to bad

[Ngoc]

That’s all good if now you feel better venting is ok if it makes you feel better after you realize it was a bit much

i wish the people that say it’s too easy would be as wise but no they just vent for the fun of venting they never understand anything and keep exploiting easy tactics 

[SPE3D]

On 14/11/2023 at 02:15, Thirkwood said:

Ive just taken over Fulham towards the end of 2028 they had been having a rough season and where 19th, i come in and switch to the back up keeper and we win our first game 1-0 then a really good 3-0 against Brighton followed. My keeper having a 7.7 then a 7.6 and my defenders holding a big improvement between 6.9 and 7.4.

Play Everton and had very close XG before they got a pen in the 84th min. i was loosing 5-1. they score the pen and get another and im just again finding myself so done. 7-1. 7-1!!! I just dont know what im doing anymore apparently. I had such a great time with the Beta but since the full release ive downloaded a skin and im simming games because if i Sim the team plays well if i actually try and use the match engine to enjoy the game 8/10 times my team capitulate in the most stupid ways. I was at Hull, checked our strengths and where we played well and built a tactic around it. we would play well loads of the ball, loads of chances, high xg and every game ended in a draw when they scored their only 2 shots. Im watching the A.I play silky smooth one touch football while my players seem to be using rice pudding for boots. People said nothing changed match engine wise since the beta but i find it so hard to stomach as in the beta i had a 5 year save and was Loving almost everything since full release i feel im struggling to get that same enjoyment. 

Now the moan is out the way does anyone have any ideas, thoughts agreeing or disagreeing I just need some rationalisation that im no going insane that the Beta was great but the release feels worse off. Just anything to keep me going on this game i usually love but am feeling more and more like im falling away from

You won't want to hear this but it will be down to you and your tactics. The good news is is it is fixable. You just need to figure through looking at statistics through the data hub through your players qualities etc etc what you are good at and what you are not good at. 

[Ngoc]

or you can plop one of the 3 OP tactics that all the one that says the game is too easy to use and never ever listen when someone tells them to try something slightly less OP...

They know is OP they select it and then they cry is so easy I can't get over it. (those are basic tactics without any change) if you know what makes Gegenpress OP you can actually modify a 5-2-3 adding those instructions and still being OP. The point is that when you play diablo or whatever other game with class pick the OP class and then say is too easy.

 

Edited November 16, 2023 by Ngoc

[Thirkwood]

14 minutes ago, SPE3D said:

You won't want to hear this but it will be down to you and your tactics. The good news is is it is fixable. You just need to figure through looking at statistics through the data hub through your players qualities etc etc what you are good at and what you are not good at. 

I did do this, I'm much calmer now than at post but I think the players who where there when I joined where just not good enough to be in the premier League. Hard bottoming out at least 3 players a game on sub 6.4 even when I catered to the strengths of the team and it was super demoralising as it was every game. The tactic actually was working quite well (contrary to the results) we would have good clear cut chances and most of our shots came from inside the box. The crux was my keeper despite his really high attributes and 140k or so a week wage (was there when I arrived) had a career average of 6.5 and that was buffed by the season with me where he got his highest of a 6.7 and added to this my strikers where averaging a 6.5 themselves. Once I replaced the keeper and brought in a striker things improved significantly. 100% appreciate the time for the feedback and idea I don't mind being told my tactic might of been guff. It happens but I did use the reports, data hub and player preferences while building the tactic just sadly let down by a few weak links

[Thirkwood]

1 minute ago, Ngoc said:

or you can plop one of the 3 OP tactics that all the one that says the game is too easy to use and never ever listen when someone tells them to try something slightly less op...

They know is OP they select it and than they cry is so easy I can't get over it.

 

Yeah not into OP tactics. Like to build my own I'd rather fail on my own ground than success off a meta.

[Ngoc]

Good job! ^_^ keep doing what you like and never listen to whoever tells you "this is the best tactic" It probably is I don't doubt it but why would you want to ruin your own game by making it too easy...

[SPE3D]

3 minutes ago, Thirkwood said:

I did do this, I'm much calmer now than at post but I think the players who where there when I joined where just not good enough to be in the premier League. Hard bottoming out at least 3 players a game on sub 6.4 even when I catered to the strengths of the team and it was super demoralising as it was every game. The tactic actually was working quite well (contrary to the results) we would have good clear cut chances and most of our shots came from inside the box. The crux was my keeper despite his really high attributes and 140k or so a week wage (was there when I arrived) had a career average of 6.5 and that was buffed by the season with me where he got his highest of a 6.7 and added to this my strikers where averaging a 6.5 themselves. Once I replaced the keeper and brought in a striker things improved significantly. 100% appreciate the time for the feedback and idea I don't mind being told my tactic might of been guff. It happens but I did use the reports, data hub and player preferences while building the tactic just sadly let down by a few weak links

I do feel on most instances of complaints on this board it is more the player than the game. Well done for sorting it out 👍

 

Ps that's not too say this game hasn't got some genuine issues.

[wearesporting]

Players had a form bounce with a new manager then landed back on how rubbish they were in the first place

 

[Thirkwood]

5 minutes ago, wearesporting said:

Players had a form bounce with a new manager then landed back on how rubbish they were in the first place

 

Yeah mine didn't even get a bounce. Some of them where just god awful. Sold them to other teams and checked on later in the save. Still doing dreadful. Restored some confidence knowing it was more them than me 😂

[wearesporting]

37 minutes ago, Thirkwood said:

Yeah mine didn't even get a bounce. Some of them where just god awful. Sold them to other teams and checked on later in the save. Still doing dreadful. Restored some confidence knowing it was more them than me 😂

Yeah unless you're one of those really good players a journeyman type save you'll come across disaster jobs you can do nothing about.

Always remember if your frustration with the game is getting to you, you can always take a break. Resign your manager and close the game. Return when you're ready.

Edited November 16, 2023 by wearesporting

[Thirkwood]

2 minutes ago, wearesporting said:

Yeah unless you're one of those really good players a journeyman type save you'll come across disaster jobs you can do nothing about.

Always remember if your frustration with the game is getting to you, you can always take a break. Resign your manager and close the game. Return when your ready.

100% just needed the moan. Don't have any friends who play so this was my only outlet

[Ngoc]

all teams i play against make subs this is a ******** that is going on but i never met a team that didn't make subs

[Etebaer]

The AI not making subs i can not confirm as i see them doing subs but then i played only one season in the lower leagues and things may change in different leagues and nations, also my save is a FM23 save i converted right from the FM23 start date into a FM24 save.

I see very high scores though...

And regarding to OP tactics - in real Football every tactic is an OP tactic as the weak tactics will get sorted out and frowned upon - that teams still win and lose is based on the ground that if two OP tactics meet its still down to luck, team cohesion, morale and player abiltiy etc. to succed as it allways is.

The secret about tactics is that in reality a tactic can make you lose but it can not make you win bcs the rule of two equal forces cancelling each other out apply!

IF someone wins a game tactically it was the inability of the opposition to neuter them and that comes down to the coach applying the wrong measures or the players unable to execute it and in the end that is a thing of player and team mentality, fitness, quality and morale - tactic only can organize this but it can not substitute it!

 

So to win step one tactically is to neuter the other team but neuter them with the minimaly amount of effort needed.

Step two is to have whats left after that to probe and provoke the oposition into risk, confusion and error to let them subsequently suffer for it!

Step three is to allow your players to win the game for you by giving them the needed amount of freedom that your tactic allows after neutering the oposition and define when and where you want to take risks in attack.

How do you do that is up to you yourself!

 

Tactic is allways executed by players but remember not to execute your players by tactic - that task is up to your opposition!

Edited November 16, 2023 by Etebaer

[Ngoc]

By that logic everybody should use only gegenpress as if you don’t you probably lose as it was proven all other tactic are higher chance of losing 

I don’t think is a fair way to describe tactic it would make sense if they were rock paper scissor type of tactic but they are not one is just stronger that all others 

[Butters76]

On 14/11/2023 at 04:52, FrazT said:

There were no changes to the ME in the full release, so you will need to look at your games more closely and find out what you can do to affect the results.

Pretty sure there were. They just don't release any update notes when going from early access to full release since the full realease is considered "1.0"

[AndrikoDS]

I've been experiencing similar to the OP for many years in this game. I have come to the conclusion it's a combination of a few things; it seems to take quite a bit of time for a new club to 'settle in' when you take over, which is even more apparent in recent years with all the squad dynamic stuff, on top of which it always seems to take a while for the team to 'get' the tactics you are using. Usually you have to just plow through it, and accept there are 'hidden' aspects to the players, like the one with great attributes always playing like a donkey, and occasionally that guy who has no talent who seems to get a 7.5 rating every game.

Also, I think there are times when a team of good players just don't combine in the right way, on top of which the AI is a bit stupid, so inheriting their squad several years into a game can be a bit of a shocker.

This is all fair enough, and realistic. However, the problem I find with FM is that it plays out so unintuitively in the match engine. Sure, the team aren't used to me or the tactics, but that suddenly means everyone just wants to boot the ball up the field instead of passing it around or something. And when a tactic isn't quite right, the whole team seems to play like they have no clue, then suddenly changing one guy from support to attack or something and they are geniuses. Basically, the game doesn't make it very easy to understand what isn't working tactically, and it can be frustrating.

[Thirkwood]

23 hours ago, AndrikoDS said:

I've been experiencing similar to the OP for many years in this game. I have come to the conclusion it's a combination of a few things; it seems to take quite a bit of time for a new club to 'settle in' when you take over, which is even more apparent in recent years with all the squad dynamic stuff, on top of which it always seems to take a while for the team to 'get' the tactics you are using. Usually you have to just plow through it, and accept there are 'hidden' aspects to the players, like the one with great attributes always playing like a donkey, and occasionally that guy who has no talent who seems to get a 7.5 rating every game.

Also, I think there are times when a team of good players just don't combine in the right way, on top of which the AI is a bit stupid, so inheriting their squad several years into a game can be a bit of a shocker.

This is all fair enough, and realistic. However, the problem I find with FM is that it plays out so unintuitively in the match engine. Sure, the team aren't used to me or the tactics, but that suddenly means everyone just wants to boot the ball up the field instead of passing it around or something. And when a tactic isn't quite right, the whole team seems to play like they have no clue, then suddenly changing one guy from support to attack or something and they are geniuses. Basically, the game doesn't make it very easy to understand what isn't working tactically, and it can be frustrating.

Readying the end of this for the "the game doesn't make it easy to understand what isn't working" made me laugh because it is accurate. I always check the data hub and end up with Too many goals in behind try a low line with Too many goals from distance try high line immediately following 😂

[Dagenham_Dave]

On 16/11/2023 at 18:52, krkyseventwo said:

As of now, the game is too easy because the AI doesn't bother to make subs or rotate their teams

Sighs, yes they do. First 11 games of my current season, and only once has the AI not made a sub. And I'm not including 90+ min subs in that. Don't believe everything you read on here. This is the gaming forum equivalent of the flat earth society. 

However, there have been a FEW games where the AI hasn't made subs, but this is the exception rather than the rule, in my own experience. A fix is probably required somewhere, although I imagine it will be difficult to implement given it's only affecting a handful of scenarios. 

Nowhere near bad enough for it to be affecting saves in any meaningful way. 

[greenz81]

18 minutes ago, Dagenham_Dave said:

Sighs, yes they do. First 11 games of my current season, and only once has the AI not made a sub. And I'm not including 90+ min subs in that. Don't believe everything you read on here. This is the gaming forum equivalent of the flat earth society. 

However, there have been a FEW games where the AI hasn't made subs, but this is the exception rather than the rule, in my own experience. A fix is probably required somewhere, although I imagine it will be difficult to implement given it's only affecting a handful of scenarios. 

Nowhere near bad enough for it to be affecting saves in any meaningful way. 

Jimmy Wong pinned the next major patch will include 

• Improvements to AI squad building and substitutions logic 

if only a ‘few’ people experienced, then why is it in the major patch. Just stop please! So many people have posted it as a problem! Just because you haven’t seen it doesn’t mean it doesn’t exist.

 

[Dagenham_Dave]

1 hour ago, greenz81 said:

Just because you haven’t seen it doesn’t mean it doesn’t exist.

Please point out where I said it didn't 'exist'. To help with this, I'll even quote the pertinent part of my post. 

 

1 hour ago, greenz81 said:

However, there have been a FEW games where the AI hasn't made subs, but this is the exception rather than the rule, in my own experience. A fix is probably required somewhere

I'm assuming you're able to read through the floods of angry tears every time you post something on here. 

[Johnny Ace]

Quit the bickering please guys