Southgate: Episode IV - A New Hope

[TM]

Just now, Baptista_8 said:

He didn't head it in did he? Left foot finish wasn't it? But yeah take your point it should be higher than 0.22 that one.

Lack of clear cut chances has been a problem since game one though - always going to end up costing us.

Toney headed it on to him to head it in if I remember correctly?

finish was against Denmark

[georginho_juventusygr]

Someone replied to my post and said that the quality gap wasn't big. Come on, who are ya kidding?

Good to reach the final.

Two Euro finals under Gareth. One Nations League final four.

I think Gareth will say this is it, though.

[Baptista_8]

Just now, TM said:

Toney headed it on to him to head it in if I remember correctly?

finish was against Denmark

Ooh yes, sorry.

[skybluedave]

1 minute ago, Baptista_8 said:

He didn't head it in did he? Left foot finish wasn't it? But yeah take your point it should be higher than 0.22 that one.

Lack of clear cut chances has been a problem since game one though - always going to end up costing us.

You thinking of Denmark goal. Come on. Not like we scored a ton of goals this tournament 

[Coulthard's Jaw]

Just now, skybluedave said:

I genunely don't think there is another possible England manager out there that doesn't start Kane (if he'a fit). Like this isn't a Southgate thing. We could have Pep in charge and he'd be starting Kane

The guy is being subbed off before 60 minutes, just shouldn't be starting should he?

[ajw10]

2 minutes ago, skybluedave said:

I genunely don't think there is another possible England manager out there that doesn't start Kane (if he'a fit). Like this isn't a Southgate thing. We could have Pep in charge and he'd be starting Kane

dunno, think an elite manager would pick his best team

[TalkSport]

Good job he never went into management. Just leave it down to the players to work it out is why we fail  

[Robson 07]

2 minutes ago, skybluedave said:

I genunely don't think there is another possible England manager out there that doesn't start Kane (if he'a fit). Like this isn't a Southgate thing. We could have Pep in charge and he'd be starting Kane

Why is he being paid over £5M a year?  

Get to the finals and show people why you earn that money.   He's proved before now that the Daily Mail doesn't pick the team but there are also reasons to look for in why we haven't won the Euros.  Kane being undroppable is a massive reason. 

[skybluedave]

4 minutes ago, Coulthard's Jaw said:

The guy is being subbed off before 60 minutes, just shouldn't be starting should he?

No, probably not. It's why I prefaced it with 'if fit'. I guess only Kane and Southgate really know what percent Kane was this tournament. But 99% of managers will try and start Kane as often as they can. 

[Robson 07]

2 minutes ago, skybluedave said:

No, probably not. It's why I prefaced it with 'if fit'. I guess only Kane and Southgate really know what percent Kane was this tournament. But 99% of managers will try and start Kane as often as they can. 

He was fit.  What's this mysterious injury? 

[Lucas]

8 minutes ago, TalkSport said:

Good job he never went into management. Just leave it down to the players to work it out is why we fail  

Seriously, ex players who did worse in an England shirt should not be coming out with this absolute counter productive rubbish. 

Rio saying Gareth should 'take some stick' for us not winning as well. 

Well, maybe, yes, but right after the game has finished there is no humility from any of these ex players just looking to cast blame and generate clicks and attention for themselves.

[sc91]

2 minutes ago, Robson 07 said:

He was fit.  What's this mysterious injury? 

It's just Harry Kane, great striker, won **** all for a reason, he just can't acknowledge when he's a problem. 

[Lucas]

2 minutes ago, Robson 07 said:

He was fit.  What's this mysterious injury? 

He wasn't fit. He was injured and missed the last few games of Bayerns season due to a back injury. 

It was very noticeable in his mobility and the fact he couldn't jump or challenges for balls most of the time. 

I'd not be surprised if he has some time out after this tournament to recuperate more after getting barely no rest in 6 weeks.

[skybluedave]

1 minute ago, Robson 07 said:

He was fit.  What's this mysterious injury? 

I don't know  He was coming off an injury end of season. People speculated it has effected him this tournament. 

But thats not the point, my overall point was no manager is dropping Kane unless he is proper injured. You can say it's Southgate's failing but stick whoever you want in charge this summer and they are starting Kane.

[Robson 07]

1 minute ago, Lucas said:

He wasn't fit. He was injured and missed the last few games of Bayerns season due to a back injury. 

It was very noticeable in his mobility and the fact he couldn't jump or challenges for balls most of the time. 

I'd not be surprised if he has some time out after this tournament to recuperate more after getting barely no rest in 6 weeks.

In which case, Southgate's inability to see this and control over it, simply gets worse.  Horrendous if true. 

[Robson 07]

2 minutes ago, skybluedave said:

I don't know  He was coming off an injury end of season. People speculated it has effected him this tournament. 

But thats not the point, my overall point was no manager is dropping Kane unless he is proper injured. You can say it's Southgate's failing but stick whoever you want in charge this summer and they are starting Kane.

Look at reasons why we may have done better, not at what perpetuates England failing to win a tournament. 

[Darren Moores Mum]

Kane didn't look fit all the way through. That he was subbed several times makes me think it was known that was the case.

[skybluedave]

Saying what I said, someone like Bielsa 100% drops Kane and I'd 100% be up for him taking charge

[Baptista_8]

4 minutes ago, Darren Moores Mum said:

Kane didn't look fit all the way through. That he was subbed several times makes me think it was known that was the case.

It's then unbelievably weak management starting him every game. Especially when you have Toney and Watkins waiting in the wings.

[themadsheep2001]

Kane wasnt fit. He injured his back against Real Madrid, which is why he was subbed off, and then missed the rest of Bayerns games. Id bet he's playing with pain killing injections 

[themadsheep2001]

6 minutes ago, Darren Moores Mum said:

Kane didn't look fit all the way through. That he was subbed several times makes me think it was known that was the case.

And why we suddenly took 3 strikers 

[Coulthard's Jaw]

3 minutes ago, themadsheep2001 said:

Kane wasnt fit. He injured his back against Real Madrid, which is why he was subbed off, and then missed the rest of Bayerns games. Id bet he's playing with pain killing injections 

I know dropping Kane is a big call but if you want to win the big trophies you have to make big calls. He never looked right, playing with injections will do him harm long term as well, poorly handled situation.

[Robson 07]

3 minutes ago, themadsheep2001 said:

Kane wasnt fit. He injured his back against Real Madrid, which is why he was subbed off, and then missed the rest of Bayerns games. Id bet he's playing with pain killing injections 

Commendable.  Love players playing through knocks.   But equally crap from Southgate; Kane was sh*te. Imagine playing with 10.25 players from kickoff.  Or 9.5 if Trent and Gallagher were also starting. 

[enigmatic]

38 minutes ago, Coulthard's Jaw said:

The guy is being subbed off before 60 minutes, just shouldn't be starting should he?

Poor Gareth, got bashed for basically his entire career for not being brave enough to sub Kane, and now he actually subs him a couple of times it just proves he shouldn't have started him  

Don't think there are many managers that don't start Kane in a final. He's never been quick, always drifts into midfield more than you'd like, and it's not the first time he's somehow ended up joint top scorer despite people worrying about his lethargy all tournament, though last time he scored a few more goals and they weren't all tapins or pens.

[Bigwig]

In Southgate’s first tournament he persisted with Deli Alli who wasn’t fit at the time and stuck with him despite calls to replace him. He hasn’t learned. 

[Coulthard's Jaw]

Just now, enigmatic said:

Poor Gareth, got bashed for basically his entire career for not being brave enough to sub Kane, and now he actually subs him a couple of times it just proves he shouldn't have started him  

Don't think there are many managers that don't start Kane in a final. He's never been quick, always drifts into midfield more than you'd like, and it's not the first time he's somehow ended up joint top scorer despite people worrying about his lethargy all tournament, though last time he scored a few more goals and they weren't all tapins or pens.

Come on, our captain and striker doesn't even make it to 60 minutes when we're chasing a goal, I'm not really in the mood for your edgelord act so lets leave it there.

[themadsheep2001]

7 minutes ago, Coulthard's Jaw said:

I know dropping Kane is a big call but if you want to win the big trophies you have to make big calls. He never looked right, playing with injections will do him harm long term as well, poorly handled situation.

 

6 minutes ago, Robson 07 said:

Commendable.  Love players playing through knocks.   But equally crap from Southgate; Kane was sh*te. Imagine playing with 10.25 players from kickoff.  Or 9.5 if Trent and Gallagher were also starting. 

I actually get the initial gamble at the start of the tournament, but at no point did he grow into it. Could see it immediately that he was ****ed. Should have benched him by game 2 and use the extra time to seee if you could get more by the knockouts

[Robson 07]

4 minutes ago, enigmatic said:

Poor Gareth, got bashed for basically his entire career for not being brave enough to sub Kane, and now he actually subs him a couple of times it just proves he shouldn't have started him  

Don't think there are many managers that don't start Kane in a final. He's never been quick, always drifts into midfield more than you'd like, and it's not the first time he's somehow ended up joint top scorer despite people worrying about his lethargy all tournament, though last time he scored a few more goals and they weren't all tapins or pens.

Lots and lots of plaudits and I'm a big fan!  Shamefully but less trophies. 

[Darren Moores Mum]

10 minutes ago, enigmatic said:

Poor Gareth, got bashed for basically his entire career for not being brave enough to sub Kane, and now he actually subs him a couple of times it just proves he shouldn't have started him  

Don't think there are many managers that don't start Kane in a final. He's never been quick, always drifts into midfield more than you'd like, and it's not the first time he's somehow ended up joint top scorer despite people worrying about his lethargy all tournament, though last time he scored a few more goals and they weren't all tapins or pens.

You manage the situation don't you? It's not about what happened previously but when your main striker can't get through a hour and has previously looked poor, then perhaps something isn't right 

There's not a single game where he looked right. I bloody love Kane but that was tragic to watch throughout.

[enigmatic]

10 minutes ago, Coulthard's Jaw said:

Come on, our captain and striker doesn't even make it to 60 minutes when we're chasing a goal, I'm not really in the mood for your edgelord act so lets leave it there.

He got subbed off on the 61st minute, for a runner against a side capable of playing keep ball for the rest of the game, after the same runner scored a wonder winner in the last game.

Not really sure it's "edgelord act" to point out that Gareth actually making the early change people asked for for once might not be evidence the player who started every game and finished the unimportant ones was nowhere near fit to start as opposed to completely the wrong player to chase a deficit against a side that keep the ball, but I'm happy to sleep too  

 

Just now, Darren Moores Mum said:

You manage the situation don't you? It's not about what happened previously but when your main striker can't get through a hour and has previously looked poor, then perhaps something isn't right 

There's not a single game where he looked right. I bloody love Kane but that was tragic to watch throughout.

I distinctly remember the same (frankly justified) criticisms of him looking lethargic at other tournaments, including 2018 when he ended up with the Golden Boot. (Ludicrously he's shared it this time round too). 

[Divinity]

I love this narrative of Trent being a defensive liability from people who evidently haven't watched him since he was 22. Hopefully he takes heed and doesn't play for England again.  

[EnterUsernameHere]

14 minutes ago, Divinity said:

I love this narrative of Trent being a defensive liability from people who evidently haven't watched him since he was 22. Hopefully he takes heed and doesn't play for England again.  

Especially when they've been watching Trippier and Walker who have both been dreadful defensively (and going forward...)

[titchuk]

Someone make me feel better and tell me I'm wrong: we talk about us having a talented squad, and it's true, but tonight felt like maybe the end of an era and I'm worried about when our next opportunity might be.

2028 feels like the obvious one what with it being on home soil but if anything it feels like it might be too obvious and the pressure becomes too much. And some of our key players over the last 6 years are most likely going to not be there - Kane will be 34 and based on tonight retired, Stones 34, Maguire 35, Walker 38(!), Shaw 33 and probably finally crocked for good. We have some ok defenders coming through but who is the number 9 who'll lead the line? Are Bellingham and Foden going to be that much better in 4 years than they are now?

Hopefully I'm just being maudlin because...yknow... but whereas in previous years it felt like we were still building up to something, tonight felt like the something and I'm concerned its going to be downhill from here.

[Divinity]

You should be glad to be getting rid of that lot tbh and excited for the young talent you have. Defensively you'll be fine from the look of it.

[sc91]

9 minutes ago, titchuk said:

Someone make me feel better and tell me I'm wrong: we talk about us having a talented squad, and it's true, but tonight felt like maybe the end of an era and I'm worried about when our next opportunity might be.

2028 feels like the obvious one what with it being on home soil but if anything it feels like it might be too obvious and the pressure becomes too much. And some of our key players over the last 6 years are most likely going to not be there - Kane will be 34 and based on tonight retired, Stones 34, Maguire 35, Walker 38(!), Shaw 33 and probably finally crocked for good. We have some ok defenders coming through but who is the number 9 who'll lead the line? Are Bellingham and Foden going to be that much better in 4 years than they are now?

Hopefully I'm just being maudlin because...yknow... but whereas in previous years it felt like we were still building up to something, tonight felt like the something and I'm concerned its going to be downhill from here.

You've got some of the best young talent in the world delivering in the too leagues in the world.

Key players over the past 6 years? You've failed in the past 6 years. 

England youth is strong, one residing notion that was missed during this is that the core is actually pretty damn good, and they're really young.

Saka, Bellingham, Foden, Rice, Palmer, Mainoo, list goes on. That's a ridiculously strong young team and they first name internationals. 

Gut feeling is like Germany where these players will gel and have time to deliver.

Frankly, you need a manager to do so.

[Astafjevs]

England will have at least until 2030 where they're genuine contenders for tournaments regardless of coach because of their talent pool and the age of said talent pool.

Whether they win or not is a different question but France have just gone final, winners, R16, final, semi-final in their last five events, largely because they have a ridiculous group to pick from. No reason England can't add a third final too.

[VamPook]

5 hours ago, Robson 07 said:

Except he's not.  Proven bad defender and midfielder.  Knocking a long pass is alone not a good player. 

Utter nonsense

Just like how Walker is an excellent defender then

[VamPook]

[dafuge]

It’s obviously nonsense, but still fitting that England become Spurs. 

[Baptista_8]

Gareth has to go now.

[Darius1998]

56 minutes ago, VamPook said:

He would be getting pelted all tournament long if he did what Walker did for that Switzerland goal.

I remember feeling a little relieved when he converted the winning penalty in that game. He was already getting scapegoated for being played in midfield and if he missed there, I fully expected the abuse to go up a few levels.

[Bigwig]

Southgate talking about his future makes it sound alike it’s his decision to make but the FA really need to be stepping up here. 

[skybluedave]

Just now, Bigwig said:

Southgate talking about his future makes it sound alike it’s his decision to make but the FA really need to be stepping up here. 

I'd be amazed if he stays. He seriously thought about stepping down after Qatar by all accounts. And he said if we didn't win tournament he'd go. If he stays it'll be because the FA have begged him and offered him even more money. 

Question is then, how stupid are the FA. I feel like they just can't be bothered to do the whole new manager process 

[Bigwig]

If he’s earning the rumoured £5m per year that’s a lot to walk away from.  Don’t see him getting that anywhere else. 

[Wiggins Top Boys]

I tell you what the most insufferable part of this tournament has been. Liverpool fans going on about Trent as if they could give a toss about England. Go away ffs

[TalkSport]

5 minutes ago, Bigwig said:

If he’s earning the rumoured £5m per year that’s a lot to walk away from.  Don’t see him getting that anywhere else. 

Smash our way through nations league beating heavyweights Ireland/Finland/Greece, motivated to stay on till WC26. 

[EnterUsernameHere]

6 minutes ago, Wiggins Top Boys said:

I tell you what the most insufferable part of this tournament has been. Liverpool fans going on about Trent as if they could give a toss about England. Go away ffs

You watched those England performances and that was the most insufferable part of the tournament for you? Ok...

[Bigwig]

I think it’s natural for club fans to defend their players when they see them being overly criticised or see players in their position underperforming when they know that their own player could potentially offer something there.

After one ineffective game in central midfield people were saying that Trent’s tournament and possible England career was over, which was complete tosh.  

[adhikapp]

Trent's midfield performance in the first 2 games was unfair scapegoating. Thought he did well, but Mainoo was better. Foden was far worse and he's basically playing the position he played in the FA Cup Final, yet he kept his place until the final. Southgate had no balls to drop Foden.

[eenie]

It's not TAA's fault that Southgate waited until the finals of a major tournament to experiment with him in central midfield for England. Whether or not he's an international-level central midfielder, you can't just chuck him in there like that. The whole thing smacked more than a little of Southgate trying, yet again, to shoehorn his best players onto the pitch rather than picking guys in the correct positions to give the best team rather than the best individuals.

Once Walker retires (surely any second now), TAA will get that RB spot and if he plays his cards right, should nail it down for the next three tournament cycles at least.