FM 25 DEVELOPMENT UPDATE

[Smoo]

1 hour ago, NineCloudNine said:

This is such a weird take. What does “mandatory” mean in this context? You don’t have to play or engage with any part of the game if you don’t want to. This is like conplaining about the inclusion of South America, or lower leagues, or international football. 

Mandatory: If I load the top 10 men's league's and their second division, are the women's top two league also loaded? Do I have the option not to load them?

I usually play with a large database. If I choose to load all the leagues I usually load, the inclusion of women's football will increase the size of the database I play on by god knows how much, this impacts the performance of my PC and the speed of my game. Either I take the hit to performance, or I load fewer leagues. Either way, I'm impacted by something I'll never use.

[Colonel Tigh]

7 minutes ago, Smoo said:

Mandatory: If I load the top 10 men's league's and their second division, are the women's top two league also loaded? Do I have the option not to load them?

I usually play with a large database. If I choose to load all the leagues I usually load, the inclusion of women's football will increase the size of the database I play on by god knows how much, this impacts the performance of my PC and the speed of my game. Either I take the hit to performance, or I load fewer leagues. Either way, I'm impacted by something I'll never use.

It has always worked that you get to select what divisions you want loaded and there is zero indication this will change 

[Smoo]

5 minutes ago, Colonel Tigh said:

It has always worked that you get to select what divisions you want loaded and there is zero indication this will change 

If that's the case then that's fine.

But I think some people are assuming that every available women's league will be loaded for every men's league you load.

There is also the problem that you could end up with elite men's managers managing women's teams, which would be a problem. We've all seen weird scenarios where Guardiola ends up manager of Nottingham Forrest and the like.

[Colonel Tigh]

2 minutes ago, Smoo said:

If that's the case then that's fine.

But I think some people are assuming that every available women's league will be loaded for every men's league you load.

There is also the problem that you could end up with elite men's managers managing women's teams, which would be a problem. We've all seen weird scenarios where Guardiola ends up manager of Nottingham Forrest and the like.

I think reputation wise that won’t be an issue. I’m more interested to know will the women’s game scale in terms of popularity, infrastructure and finances as you progress through the game. That could be fun 

[grade]

19 minutes ago, Smoo said:

If that's the case then that's fine.

But I think some people are assuming that every available women's league will be loaded for every men's league you load.

There is also the problem that you could end up with elite men's managers managing women's teams, which would be a problem. We've all seen weird scenarios where Guardiola ends up manager of Nottingham Forrest and the like.

At this point is all speculation. We had just one phrase that it is going to be one ecosystem...

Quote

Full details of which leagues will be playable will be revealed in the coming months, but, yes, you will be able to seamlessly move between managing men’s and women’s teams. One game, one ecosystem.

The quote again is here. This can be debatable:

- It can mean what we have now. We load the leagues we want to play, and that is it.

- If it means that if you want to load the premier league, it loads both men's and women's games.

I'm more inclined to believe it is the first option, the second since many people have limited PCs. Forcing this means that it will duplicate the loading times and processing times...

As I said, it is all speculation at this point. I don't see SI releasing any more information until September (which is what bothers me the most).

[GSfan]

Look at this: "For a while, this has felt quite old school given that modern football managers spend way more time on their phones than laptops."

 

What the ****? I don't never ever play the game on my phone, or laptop, or other ******** devices. Is it a blame that being old school gamer or etc.

 

Such a horrible concept that in every circumstance putting the ****ing gen Z to the forefront than those who play the game for years, maybe since CM series.

 

I hope one day your monopolization on manager games would end. It seems that I'll end up playing the game after 25 years.

[jcafcwbb]

8 minutes ago, GSfan said:

Look at this: "For a while, this has felt quite old school given that modern football managers spend way more time on their phones than laptops."

 

What the ****? I don't never ever play the game on my phone, or laptop, or other ******** devices. Is it a blame that being old school gamer or etc.

 

Such a horrible concept that in every circumstance putting the ****ing gen Z to the forefront than those who play the game for years, maybe since CM series.

 

I hope one day your monopolization on manager games would end. It seems that I'll end up playing the game after 25 years.

I think that what Miles meant that real life managers do not spend their lives looking at emails on laptops. He did not mean us and the way we play the game.

[jcafcwbb]

Reading again what Miles said about the shouts was that they didn't work and made little effect on the match engine.

I play on console now and we have four shouts, do you have more on the full PC version?, and I find it hard to see how they would affect the match engine:

Praise - this may mean don't change anything and can only affect morale. Probably best used when you are knocking at the opponent's door or if you are away at an opponent like Man City and are defending well and are still 0-0. Whilst morale may be lifted, for a short while, will it change things?

Fire-Up - whilst it might mean be more positive and get stuck in what does it affect in the match engine.

Demand More - I cannot see what this would change - maybe morale?

Focus - when you defending a lead/draw or just scored. Isn't this just the same as change to a Cautious mentality? Or move the mentality down one?

A lot of things the shouts do can be changed in the tactics menu. You should also decide what part morale or player engagement plays in whether they listen to the shouts. Shouts should never be a magic win button and like, real life, their effectiveness should change depending on the situation.

You get the impression that some players are not totally listening to what Southgate or his team are shouting to them. That should also be an aspect of the game.

[themadsheep2001]

13 hours ago, endtime said:

Imagine being so triggered by the inclusion of women's football, jeez.

Just call sexism for what it is tbh. 

[Polando]

Does anyone lead their team with one tactic? Even if I create a great tactic that will give me a few or a dozen wins, sometimes even a place in European cups, sooner or later there comes a moment of breakdown and I get beaten by everyone, even though I beat him to zero a few months earlier. I understand the realism of the game, but it makes no sense.

[Federico]

10 minuti fa, Polando ha scritto:

Does anyone lead their team with one tactic? Even if I create a great tactic that will give me a few or a dozen wins, sometimes even a place in European cups, sooner or later there comes a moment of breakdown and I get beaten by everyone, even though I beat him to zero a few months earlier. I understand the realism of the game, but it makes no sense.

Wrong thread?

[MichaelNevo]

13 minutes ago, Polando said:

Does anyone lead their team with one tactic? Even if I create a great tactic that will give me a few or a dozen wins, sometimes even a place in European cups, sooner or later there comes a moment of breakdown and I get beaten by everyone, even though I beat him to zero a few months earlier. I understand the realism of the game, but it makes no sense.

Definitely wrong thread, but just so you're aware, not everything is about the tactic you use, so it most probably does make sense if that's all you're focused on.

[Sheila]

Sorry the whole thing loks like its being dumbed down (especially visually) just so it can be sold on console in hopes of grabbing more of the FIFA crowd, than actually doing what they promised in bringing us a better game and not just a yearly reskin.

I'm assuming this years version will be alot cheaper since they're stripping it of features and adding very little to it.

Edited Sunday at 14:38 by Sheila

[2feet]

On 28/06/2024 at 03:13, Rashidi said:

I’ve had friends who’ve seen me play FM and are only interested in the match day experience. Most are put off with the spreadsheet feel that the game has had over the last 20 years and I for one am glad that we have ditched the “Home” screen in favour of a portal where I don’t need to deal with an “inbox” and spend each turn skipping messages and only responding to necessary ones.

Personally I’ve wanted a UI that felt like Oracle’s cubes, and with the tile UI interface it seems like we can have a top down approach to drilling for information.  And instead of being saddled with detailed information, and having to ascertain what’s necessary and what’s not, we now have a UI that simplifies things.

Naturally SI only revealed the design pages so there is plenty more to come, I for one remain guardedly optimistic and will only have a concrete opinion once the game is in my hands.

I do have some concerns and these involve immersion. While I understand the need to rework how touchline shouts will be implemented within the overall game flow, I do hope we don’t have to wait till it’s reintroduced in FM26. That by far is the BIGGEST form of immersion in the game for me. I like the sensation of feeling that my shouts matter.

Since the current implementation of shouts has always left questions unanswered, I feel that the best way of kicking them back in again is via cutaways.

Each time  a shout is used, the game could cutaway to the manager gesticulating, this could give developers the change to code the script to recalculate from that moment onwards. It’s also a great way to showcase our eye patches, earrings and watches. I look forward to getting my hands on FM25.

I suggested cutaways a while ago, like a miniature small tv-screen pops up in one corner showing a close-up of the sidelines with the manager issuing their instructions to the player.

What we watch in the cutaway scene presents many possibilities for interesting gameplay.

How the player reacts could indicate if they have had difficulty understanding the new instructions.

Examples:

They may become confused if you're telling him to do something contrary to his player traits. 

Or confused if he is tired and struggling to focus.

Or may become more motivated if the player feels he will be more effective with the new instruction.

So you would have to watch what happens in the cutaway closey and get a read of how the issuing of the instructions went.

And do you issue the shout from a distance or do you call the player over to you on the sidelines?

If you call him over then does your team then suffer for him being temporarily out of position? If so then your timing of when to issue the shout becomes very important, only call a player over if there is a gap in play.

If you issue the shout from distance, then does that limit what you can tell him, due to the distance, and only being able to use gesticulation.

When you look at it, there are really so many variables with the concept of a shout, and Im not surprised the developers need to take time to get it right.

But l'd love to see something like this implemented well in the future.

[gunner86]

4 hours ago, Sheila said:

I'm assuming this years version will be alot cheaper since they're stripping it of features and adding very little to it.

You do realise that what was announced wasn’t everything right? That’s not the whole announcement for the game.

[MichaelNevo]

5 hours ago, Sheila said:

Sorry the whole thing loks like its being dumbed down (especially visually) just so it can be sold on console in hopes of grabbing more of the FIFA crowd, than actually doing what they promised in bringing us a better game and not just a yearly reskin.

I'm assuming this years version will be alot cheaper since they're stripping it of features and adding very little to it.

If you read properly, they explained why they removed certain features from fm25 and it makes sense. It would be very silly to assume that they would make the game cheaper... they won't have taken the decision lightly and if it allows time to work on more important stuff, personally I welcome the decision.

[obongwati]

8 hours ago, MichaelNevo said:

If you read properly, they explained why they removed certain features from fm25 and it makes sense. It would be very silly to assume that they would make the game cheaper... they won't have taken the decision lightly and if it allows time to work on more important stuff, personally I welcome the decision.

I really really doubt the leaks are from the PC version, looks more like the mobile/touch version with the space between boxes, or perhaps they have added a Lite PC skin version which was available few years ago.

Just like any games, mobile version will soon be the core market, and from a business standpoint it's a win-win in the long term. But the SI aren't dumb enough to ignore existing hardcore FM players for something so Lite, it's well documented they're stubborn to drastic changes in any FM versions. ME is probably the most likely changes, which will effect in the short term, but in terms of interface i really doubt the leaks are the PC version.

[MichaelNevo]

1 hour ago, obongwati said:

I really really doubt the leaks are from the PC version, looks more like the mobile/touch version with the space between boxes, or perhaps they have added a Lite PC skin version which was available few years ago.

Just like any games, mobile version will soon be the core market, and from a business standpoint it's a win-win in the long term. But the SI aren't dumb enough to ignore existing hardcore FM players for something so Lite, it's well documented they're stubborn to drastic changes in any FM versions. ME is probably the most likely changes, which will effect in the short term, but in terms of interface i really doubt the leaks are the PC version.

I'd consider a leak as something that they didn't want to get out, where as this has been intentionally put out there for people to look at. Here is a direct quote from the information we were given...

Today, however, I want to tell you about Football Manager 25 [PC/Mac], Football Manager 25 Console [Xbox One/S/X & PlayStation 5]. More news on Football Manager 25 Touch and Football Manager 25 Mobile will follow later in the cycle.

[obongwati]

2 hours ago, MichaelNevo said:

I'd consider a leak as something that they didn't want to get out, where as this has been intentionally put out there for people to look at. Here is a direct quote from the information we were given...

Today, however, I want to tell you about Football Manager 25 [PC/Mac], Football Manager 25 Console [Xbox One/S/X & PlayStation 5]. More news on Football Manager 25 Touch and Football Manager 25 Mobile will follow later in the cycle.

Regardless it's a leak or a public announcement, pretty unnecessary to come into conclusion this early. 

5 Screenshots should tell you it's just to test the waters, the community are clearly triggered by it. Will see the following updates in the following weeks. 

[DP]

21 minutes ago, obongwati said:

Regardless it's a leak or a public announcement, pretty unnecessary to come into conclusion this early. 

5 Screenshots should tell you it's just to test the waters, the community are clearly triggered by it. Will see the following updates in the following weeks. 

‘Testing the waters’ for something that potentially releases in 3/4 months sounds a bit optimistic. I think SI are pretty set in the direction from a UX perspective  

Then again it’s surprising to see wireframe mockups rather than an actual game screenshot this late into the development cycle. 

[KillYourIdols]

Dont mind what we have seen of the UI so far tbh, I like to think it is laid out more like an "App" that a manager and data team may use IRL rather than pages of text like we are used to. I just want to see the data packed in rather then it lacking and made to fill the screen, leaving blank, wasted space.

I'm holding out for a skin that, invariably, adds more data/style than SI allow by default.

[MichaelNevo]

2 hours ago, obongwati said:

Regardless it's a leak or a public announcement, pretty unnecessary to come into conclusion this early. 

5 Screenshots should tell you it's just to test the waters, the community are clearly triggered by it. Will see the following updates in the following weeks. 

I'm not one of those people being triggered because I understand its not a finished game, it's as you say "screenshots". I'd rather judge the finished article personally. I only quoted you because I felt you didn't understand what is was that they'd put put there.

[rusty217]

On 30/06/2024 at 18:15, Smoo said:

Mandatory: If I load the top 10 men's league's and their second division, are the women's top two league also loaded? Do I have the option not to load them?

I usually play with a large database. If I choose to load all the leagues I usually load, the inclusion of women's football will increase the size of the database I play on by god knows how much, this impacts the performance of my PC and the speed of my game. Either I take the hit to performance, or I load fewer leagues. Either way, I'm impacted by something I'll never use.

It's not just leagues. If continental cups/internationals are running for women that'd slow down the game too. Plus players are often loaded even if the league isn't.

It needs to be completely optional with the possibility of having nothing at all running in the game. TBH if I ever do a women's save I'd want the same there too, women only with no men's leagues running and slowing the game down.

[forameuss]

32 minutes ago, rusty217 said:

It's not just leagues. If continental cups/internationals are running for women that'd slow down the game too. Plus players are often loaded even if the league isn't.

It needs to be completely optional with the possibility of having nothing at all running in the game. TBH if I ever do a women's save I'd want the same there too, women only with no men's leagues running and slowing the game down.

What is it that makes people believe that this wouldn't be the case?  It'd be a pretty clear departure from how it's been for over two decades now to force inclusion of leagues that people don't want.  It'll likely be one of the many design decisions behind why this feature has been years in the making. 

[-Jef-]

Guess people forgot that they are re-doing ME to accomodate for womens football. Which should lead to a better and more realistic ME for men as well since it's a shared one. And instead just focusing on there being wOmEn in the game alongside their precious Messi, Ronaldo and Bellingham.

[forameuss]

26 minutes ago, -Jef- said:

Guess people forgot that they are re-doing ME to accomodate for womens football. Which should lead to a better and more realistic ME for men as well since it's a shared one. And instead just focusing on there being wOmEn in the game alongside their precious Messi, Ronaldo and Bellingham.

I mean, giving a very slight benefit of the doubt, we don't know they're doing that.  But I would be very, very surprised (and bitterly disappointed) if they weren't taking the opportunity to do that.  And you're absolutely right that if they're doing that, it could bring benefits across the board that wouldn't have been there otherwise.  

Almost like there's something more to these kinds of opinions.

[-Jef-]

56 minutes ago, forameuss said:

I mean, giving a very slight benefit of the doubt, we don't know they're doing that.  But I would be very, very surprised (and bitterly disappointed) if they weren't taking the opportunity to do that.  And you're absolutely right that if they're doing that, it could bring benefits across the board that wouldn't have been there otherwise.  

Almost like there's something more to these kinds of opinions.

We DO know that they're doing that as that's exactly what Miles wrote in his blog about adding women in the game.

[forameuss]

29 minutes ago, -Jef- said:

We DO know that they're doing that as that's exactly what Miles wrote in his blog about adding women in the game.

Whereabouts is that?  I don't remember them saying explicitly that they would.  If they have, fair enough. Like I said, it's absolutely what they should be doing.

[rusty217]

2 hours ago, forameuss said:

What is it that makes people believe that this wouldn't be the case?  It'd be a pretty clear departure from how it's been for over two decades now to force inclusion of leagues that people don't want.  It'll likely be one of the many design decisions behind why this feature has been years in the making. 

My post was about continental cups/internationals. They've never been optional and are always running regardless of the leagues you run.

Edited Monday at 14:32 by rusty217

[forameuss]

15 minutes ago, rusty217 said:

My post was about continental cups/internationals. They've never been optional and are always running regardless of the leagues you run.

YOu didn't need to edit that post, you're right, completely missed the key part of that post. Apologies.  

Something I'd never considered, is something like the Champions League always "active" even if you choose no nations in Europe?

I'd imagine they could completely isolate the women's game and not have anything even remotely active unless you choose at least one league from there.

[-Jef-]

1 hour ago, forameuss said:

Whereabouts is that?  I don't remember them saying explicitly that they would.  If they have, fair enough. Like I said, it's absolutely what they should be doing.

https://www.footballmanager.com/news/how-were-introducing-womens-football-football-manager

 

"To get our women’s database right we will have to examine every single in-game attribute and define exactly how we judge the data; attributes such as pace, acceleration and agility will likely stay with the same range, but some attributes may need a different scale. These attributes also feed into our match engine of course, and work done in this area (for example, looking at height of players and how that may affect how they play – such as aiming shots higher if a goalkeeper is smaller) will be of benefit for the match engine overall."

 

[JamieTC13]

On 27/06/2024 at 16:21, Brentford Alan said:

The pictures could have been created weeks or months ago, for all we know. 

But why would they show it if it isn't going to look close to looking like that, it looks more like a new skin than a total new UI, just my opinion 

[rusty217]

20 hours ago, forameuss said:

YOu didn't need to edit that post, you're right, completely missed the key part of that post. Apologies.  

Something I'd never considered, is something like the Champions League always "active" even if you choose no nations in Europe?

I'd imagine they could completely isolate the women's game and not have anything even remotely active unless you choose at least one league from there.

NP, edited it because I thought it came across as a bit too hostile.

Yep, the continental competitions are always running even if you choose no nations in that continent. The game loads a few players for teams in un-loaded leagues too. It's only a couple per high reputation team, but it's something. My game already runs slow enough as is, would really prefer it not be even slower

For the record, I'm not against women's football being added at all. My concern is entirely performance based, and that's completely on SI to get right, women's football could be added with no performance decreases at all, will it? While I'm probably not planning to play it myself, it's still an interesting addition and it's certainly possible I'll give it a go too.

[grade]

2 hours ago, rusty217 said:

NP, edited it because I thought it came across as a bit too hostile.

Yep, the continental competitions are always running even if you choose no nations in that continent. The game loads a few players for teams in un-loaded leagues too. It's only a couple per high reputation team, but it's something. My game already runs slow enough as is, would really prefer it not be even slower

For the record, I'm not against women's football being added at all. My concern is entirely performance based, and that's completely on SI to get right, women's football could be added with no performance decreases at all, will it? While I'm probably not planning to play it myself, it's still an interesting addition and it's certainly possible I'll give it a go too.

I really hope the processing times, don't take a hit. I want those parts to more faster in each version, but not slower.

We will know something about it, when SI decide to make a proper features announcements starting in September, if not guess in early November, we will find out for ourselves.

Edited Tuesday at 13:52 by grade

[FlorianAlbert9]

23 ore fa, rusty217 ha scritto:

My post was about continental cups/internationals. They've never been optional and are always running regardless of the leagues you run.

Set a lowest details they will have zero impact, so it will not be an issue. 

 

[afailed10]

Em 01/07/2024 em 13:07, -Jef- disse:

Guess people forgot that they are re-doing ME to accomodate for womens football. Which should lead to a better and more realistic ME for men as well since it's a shared one. And instead just focusing on there being wOmEn in the game alongside their precious Messi, Ronaldo and Bellingham.

Bellingham in the same sentence as the two GOATs? Boy I wonder what kinda stuff they’re smoking in England 

[vrig]

On 02/07/2024 at 12:29, grade said:

I really hope the processing times, don't take a hit. I want those parts to more faster in each version, but not slower.

We will know something about it, when SI decide to make a proper features announcements starting in September, if not guess in early November, we will find out for ourselves.

Since it looks like the UI is all they really care about shaking up, it would be pretty criminal to see processing times be seriously impacted.

[-Jef-]

4 hours ago, afailed10 said:

Bellingham in the same sentence as the two GOATs? Boy I wonder what kinda stuff they’re smoking in England 

What makes you think I am from England? Stop being so judgemental.

[ViG1980]

There’s a bit of a Pro Evo soccer feel about all this. Obviously nowhere near as bad but they are removing A LOT to be able to move to the new engine. Moving to the new engine is the right thing to do and I have full faith that we’ll get the game we want out of it. But it feels like that will be 2-3 years away and not in the first or second edition. 

This first edition will look prettier but worried it’s going to be overly simple. 

[DP]

10 hours ago, afailed10 said:

Bellingham in the same sentence as the two GOATs? Boy I wonder what kinda stuff they’re smoking in England 

Probably the sort of stuff that allows the English to have made the greatest football manager game of all time 🤩