FM 25 DEVELOPMENT UPDATE

[StormenDK]

The two things that were cut? - I don't really care.

International management sucks balls currently, and if they can't integrate that feature properly until next year, then postpone it, by all means. No reason to have it in if it is broken or not finished.

Weight? - I have never used it for anything, so by all means remove it from the UI.

This year will be a year of streamlining. So we will see lots of features removed, rather than just adding new ones. It makes perfect sense when moving to a new engine, to really look at what works and what doesn't, and remove stuff that is not needed and/or used. Call it de-bloating FM, if you will.

It is better to start with a cleaner (but less feature-rich) plate, and then add on that in the future.

But just because they remove stuff, doesn't mean that nothing new will be added or improved. Which seems to be what they will be focusing on in the coming months.

[ajw10]

The only reason I was going to buy this game was due to women's football but now that seems pointless due to the removal of managing internationals.

[Fat_Frank8]

7 minutes ago, Craigus89 said:

Got a source for those numbers, or just pulling stuff out of your arse? 

Whose to say the game won’t start attracting female players if it now features the people who they watch/look up to/dream of being when they’re older?

The general attitude on display by many of the posters here, while not surprising, is absolutely ****1ng embarrassing. 

I said that i guessed on the 999 of 1000 and the other is from the development update. Which one do you want source on? My guess?
How many do you think is going to play women’s management compared to international management?

[TopToffee]

4 hours ago, KrvakForLife said:

This talk of "if you don't like it, don't buy it" doesn't make sense.

Does this inhibit criticism? Criticism as long as it is constructive is good for companies, and all feedback is feedback, I understand that you like the game as much as I do, I love this game. But it is not pleasant to inhibit others from giving their opinion and criticizing as long as it is constructive.

I completely agree

However “It’s borderline disgusting” isn’t constructive in any way.

[TopToffee]

4 hours ago, FlazeepX said:

You're right to a degree, yes I have a choice not to buy it, but it shouldn't even be the case in the first place. The game is quite clearly unfinished, they purposely lacked more development on FM24 to focus on FM25, yet we're being delivered half a game? How can you accept that is the bar?
 

It seems to be a common theme in the games industry in the past  few years to rush a game just so it's out there, with features broken, features missing, delayed game dates, and you're okay with that? Game developers need to up their game and stop accepting the minimal as okay, and still charge your fans the same or even more for less, craziness.

“The game is clearly unfinished”

well yes, it’s 4th September and the game isn’t releasing until the end of November!

You might have a point if the removals/missing features/changes were sprung on people on release day, without a demo… but that isn’t the case.

[Craigus89]

2 minutes ago, Fat_Frank8 said:

I said that i guessed on the 999 of 1000 and the other is from the development update. Which one do you want source on? My guess?
How many do you think is going to play women’s management compared to international management?

Alright, 5% play international management. I'll say more than 5% will manage a womens team, more like 10%. Want a source? It's just a guess, but that's fine right? Useful for you?

[DP]

International management has been in the game since I started playing CM2. 

Anyone remember the ‘cheat’ where you could set your name as the real life manager back then to manage one of the UK nations from the start? Terry Venables 😎

As something that has been in the game for so long - a staple feature even though many didn’t play it - it is a shame it’s not there for FM25. 

[Platinum]

International management going is a bit disappointing but only because I hoped we would have an improved version. The current version was never worth playing IMO and I likely wouldnt have played it.

I don't really care much that weight is gone (even though I did use it). But I do wonder if they are creating a solution to a problem that never existed. EAFC displays weight values for women, and it's a game played much more people and a younger audience, and it's not an issue at all. This is assuming its been removed for body shaming reasons.

[Lord Rowell]

1 hour ago, mackem10 said:

 

Well, we are of opposing views my Lord.

I find it an incredible thought that football manager is being influenced by the possibility of body shaming, perhaps that's just because I'm removed from it somehow, I don't know.

As for trivia and having zero impact on the ME, nor does player faces or club and competition badges but I wouldn't want to play the game without them, what they add to the game is of the utmost importance to me having an enjoyable immersive experience.

Re. the bit I've emboldened, I find it incredible too. But its reality and the state of the world these days and I don't want a "game" to make it worse, lead to more online bullying and, the reality is, in some cases, destroy people's lives.
As for club badges and player faces, I wouldn't want to play the game without them either - the difference is they're highly visual and in your face. To compare them with a weight stat which few people use or notice is not a good comparison of things

[Watson156]

Just my opinions on the blog put out today. 

Firstly, the 2 parts about the e-sports and Miles not doing public appearances, who cares and why is this even apart of the FM25 blog. If Miles is sooo important to the development of FM25, that he is now realising that he has to be around to help out, then in my opinon there are far more problems coming. Why is it taking so long to realise that he is needed, and if thats always been the case then why hasn't he been doing it all along and trying to keep to the original deadline of early November release?

The lack of international management is a massive mistake in my opinion, but it was very predictable and it is entirely their own fault. For soo many years people have been asking for an improved International Managment experience and it has been completely ignored. The fact that they have just decided to not even just copy over the current shambolic version of International Management is pretty on par for what they have been doing for years now. 

The removal of weight, couldn't care less. Dont think its anywhere near as important as people seem to think/make it out to be.

Overall its just another massive dissapointment. I thought that the reason that FM24 was just a copied version of FM23 with a lick of paint was because they were already working on FM25. If they have been working on this game for around 2 years and are still not ready/running at a delayed pace, then I have absolutley no hope for this game. 

I think that a lot of people were expecting a lot/too much from this game & developers. I don't know what the new engine will bring and how much better it will make the game in the long run, but I just hope that FM25 will be playable. Thats how low my expectations are for this game.

Now the good news from the update.........

 

[TopToffee]

Amazing how many people seem to find it desperately important that the world knows they don’t care about women’s football.

[Fat_Frank8]

2 minutes ago, Craigus89 said:

Alright, 5% play international management. I'll say more than 5% will manage a womens team, more like 10%. Want a source? It's just a guess, but that's fine right? Useful for you?

Not really useful, mostly because no one could possibly think that 10% will play it. 

[davehanson]

2 minutes ago, TopToffee said:

“The game is clearly unfinished”

well yes, it’s 4th September and the game isn’t releasing until the end of November!

You might have a point if the removals/missing features/changes were sprung on people on release day, without a demo… but that isn’t the case.

Have they announced a demo yet out of interest?

[xOGxTerror]

1 minute ago, Lord Rowell said:

Re. the bit I've emboldened, I find it incredible too. But its reality and the state of the world these days and I don't want a "game" to make it worse, lead to more online bullying and, the reality is, in some cases, destroy people's lives.
As for club badges and player faces, I wouldn't want to play the game without them either - the difference is they're highly visual and in your face. To compare them with a weight stat which few people use or notice is not a good comparison of things

Are you saying the inclusion of weight will destroy people’s lives? 
 

You do realize EAFC has the women’s weights already right…?

[davehanson]

Just now, TopToffee said:

Amazing how many people seem to find it desperately important that the world knows they don’t care about women’s football.

I’m guessing it’s slightly less than the people who have posted here who state they don’t care about international management being removed

[TopToffee]

Just now, davehanson said:

Have they announced a demo yet out of interest?

No. But there has been a demo of FM every single year, as far as I’m aware?

[Bahoi]

14 minutes ago, xOGxTerror said:

What a dumb reason to defend something. They shouldn’t fix features in the game to make them work right for current players- they should add a new mode with the chance it’ll attract new players! 
 

how about fixing issues which have been in the game for years and rewarding your core fans for sticking around. Instead of binning off already existing features to add something that 1% of the player population may play at some point. 
 

 

They have no incentive to do that, you will buy the game regardless. They know how addicted we* are. 

 

We = 80% of the player base. 

[TopToffee]

Just now, davehanson said:

I’m guessing it’s slightly less than the people who have posted here who state they don’t care about international management being removed

It absolutely is not.

[TopToffee]

2 minutes ago, Fat_Frank8 said:

Not really useful, mostly because no one could possibly think that 10% will play it. 

That would be another opinion.

Edited September 4 by TopToffee

[Craigus89]

1 minute ago, Fat_Frank8 said:

Not really useful, mostly because no one could possibly think that 10% will play it. 

Once again, got a source for that, or are we still just chucking around statements with no substance?

[Dbuk1]

Is there anyone in this forum that could name 100 woman footballers currently playing? I fear that playing the woman’s game would be the equivalent to playing generated player names. What is the percentage of players that play generated player names currently?

[Dbuk1]

3 minutes ago, TopToffee said:

Amazing how many people seem to find it desperately important that the world knows they don’t care about women’s football.

It it’s important when the game we play puts most of its resources into it instead of other more deserving elements 

[sc91]

Cutting parts to the game once again screams inability to take on tasks they said they could do. 

Another version to skip.

[davehanson]

2 minutes ago, TopToffee said:

It absolutely is not.

That is an opinion

[TopToffee]

Just now, Dbuk1 said:

Is there anyone in this forum that could name 100 woman footballers currently playing? I fear that playing the woman’s game would be the equivalent to playing generated player names. What is the percentage of players that play generated player names currently?

I doubt I could name 100 MLS players either. CERTAINLY couldn’t name 100 from the Gibraltar league.

[TopToffee]

Just now, davehanson said:

That is an opinion

To quote a certain radio presenter… It’s not an opinion. It’s counting.

Edited September 4 by TopToffee

[XaW]

Just now, Dbuk1 said:

Is there anyone in this forum that could name 100 woman footballers currently playing? I fear that playing the woman’s game would be the equivalent to playing generated player names. What is the percentage of players that play generated player names currently?

Well, then you should name 100 players playing in the Norwegian 3rd tier, since that's in the game too... See how poor that sounds?

I'd compare it more to the MLS. Strange rules, drafting, allocated money. And a league I have 0% interest in. Should I advocate for it to be removed?

[HUNT3R]

1 minute ago, Dbuk1 said:

Is there anyone in this forum that could name 100 woman footballers currently playing? I fear that playing the woman’s game would be the equivalent to playing generated player names. What is the percentage of players that play generated player names currently?

The counter point to this is that I start unemployed and willing to start wherever someone is willing to hire me. In the depths of Norway, Austria, China or Ecuador, I know none of the names there either.

[XaW]

1 minute ago, TopToffee said:

I doubt I could name 100 MLS players either. CERTAINLY couldn’t name 100 from the Gibraltar league.

Stop making my points before me!  

[TopToffee]

1 minute ago, Dbuk1 said:

It it’s important when the game we play puts most of its resources into it instead of other more deserving elements 

Why are other elements “more deserving”?

[davehanson]

3 minutes ago, TopToffee said:

No. But there has been a demo of FM every single year, as far as I’m aware?

And there has been international football in every single interaction of FM too.

There are a lot of people in this thread stating that new features haven’t been announced yet, and as such people shouldn’t speculate as to what is in the game and what isn’t.

Well, in that case we shouldn’t be so sure that there will be Beta access or a demo either, as far as I am aware neither of those things has been announced yet

[wazzaflow10]

14 minutes ago, HUNT3R said:

Same as I did before, to judge them physically, tbh. 

Crouch had average or above average Agility, Balance and Strength, IIRC. Can 'reach' high but can be out-muscled. Lukaku was a tank. 20 Strength, 20 Balance and average Agility.

 

Lukaku and Crouch are a poor example. Not the same height not even close to similar physical stats that you'd expect there to be a confounding of weight to physical abilities.

In FM 19

Isak and Haaland are 18 and 17 respectively. They are of the same height (within 1cm) and basically the same physical profile with the exception of Haaland has a strength of 15 to Isak's 10. Given Isak's height you might think you could train him to be a target forward or even a complete IF you could get his strength up.

And just so we know its possible to achieve high strength despite being being on the lighter side James Hanson in 2019 was 194cm and 78kg with a strength of 18.

But given how slight Isak is relative to his height its not likely he'd ever really make up that strength but it still might be possible.

Richarlison and Hulk were also the same height but Hulk was a whopping 14kg heavier. They had the same strength rating of 15. So is Richarlison strong for his size and shouldn't expect to get stronger or is Hulk weak for his size?

[JAwtunes]

4 hours ago, Fat_Frank8 said:

The worst CM/FM since CM4 incoming

that's giving me flashbacks. CM4 was a shocker 

[davehanson]

1 minute ago, TopToffee said:

To quote a certain radio presenter… It’s not an opinion. It’s counting.

Please tell me how many people have said they don’t care about internationals management as opposed to those who have said they don’t care about women’s football

[xOGxTerror]

3 minutes ago, Craigus89 said:

Once again, got a source for that, or are we still just chucking around statements with no substance?

Here is a link to a women’s database for FM23. It has 1600 downloads in a year. 
 

https://www.fmscout.com/a-women-football-database-fm23.html

Do you think that is 10% of the playerbase?

 

for example, the player name fix has over 500k downloads on the same website. 
 

You wanna actually talk statistics or…?

[TopToffee]

Just now, davehanson said:

And there has been international football in every single interaction of FM too.

There are a lot of people in this thread stating that new features haven’t been announced yet, and as such people shouldn’t speculate as to what is in the game and what isn’t.

Well, in that case we shouldn’t be so sure that there will be Beta access or a demo either, as far as I am aware neither of those things has been announced yet

It’s been definitively stated that international management isn’t in the game.

Until the point that it’s stated that there isn’t a demo, it is REASONABLE to assume there will be one.

[HUNT3R]

1 minute ago, wazzaflow10 said:

Lukaku and Crouch are a poor example. Not the same height not even close to similar physical stats that you'd expect there to be a confounding of weight to physical abilities.

In FM 19

Isak and Haaland are 18 and 17 respectively. They are of the same height (within 1cm) and basically the same physical profile with the exception of Haaland has a strength of 15 to Isak's 10. Given Isak's height you might think you could train him to be a target forward or even a complete IF you could get his strength up.

And just so we know its possible to achieve high strength despite being being on the lighter side James Hanson in 2019 was 194cm and 78kg with a strength of 18.

But given how slight Isak is relative to his height its not likely he'd ever really make up that strength but it still might be possible.

Richarlison and Hulk were also the same height but Hulk was a whopping 14kg heavier. They had the same strength rating of 15. So is Richarlison strong for his size and shouldn't expect to get stronger or is Hulk weak for his size?

I can't engage in this as my point has never been to replace weight with strength. My stance on this topic was to look at Agility, Balance and Strength.

[mackem10]

3 minutes ago, Lord Rowell said:

Re. the bit I've emboldened, I find it incredible too. But its reality and the state of the world these days and I don't want a "game" to make it worse, lead to more online bullying and, the reality is, in some cases, destroy people's lives.
As for club badges and player faces, I wouldn't want to play the game without them either - the difference is they're highly visual and in your face. To compare them with a weight stat which few people use or notice is not a good comparison of things

While I would hate for anyone to be the subject of bullying, It seems like an awfully (like ridiculously) high level of censorship in order to counter a possible problem.

 

I bring up the faces and badges because you stated weight didn't change the ME which was apparently of great importance, well nor do they, they provide immersion and realism, the same thing that weight does for me. I understand those who don't use it not caring, I don't care about international football as I don't use it although I can more than understand folk being miffed about that.

 

 

[wazzaflow10]

35 minutes ago, RandomGuy. said:

Any idea what International management would need, game wise, that won't be included in club management?

You'd have to ask SI. Last time I did an international team was 2010.

[jimbo22]

9 minutes ago, TopToffee said:

Amazing how many people seem to find it desperately important that the world knows they don’t care about women’s football.

No need to think a forum about a game and people talking about it is telling the world. Rather silly assessment to be honest.

[kiwityke1983]

1 minute ago, XaW said:

Well, then you should name 100 players playing in the Norwegian 3rd tier, since that's in the game too... See how poor that sounds?

I'd compare it more to the MLS. Strange rules, drafting, allocated money. And a league I have 0% interest in. Should I advocate for it to be removed?

It barely works as the AI can't fathom the rules so by the logic of international management and shouts (two things I'll personally miss) absolutely yes.

I also couldn't even name the entire men's national team for either NZ or England so...maybe take my opinion with a pinch of salt haha

[Dbuk1]

8 minutes ago, TopToffee said:

I doubt I could name 100 MLS players either. CERTAINLY couldn’t name 100 from the Gibraltar league.

Did Miles state that his main focus has been to implement the Gibraltar league? You understand the point???

Edited September 4 by Dbuk1

[XaW]

Just now, kiwityke1983 said:

It barely works as the AI can't fathom the rules so by the logic of international management and shouts (two things I'll personally miss) absolutely yes.

I also couldn't even name the entire men's national team for either NZ or England so...maybe take my opinion with a pinch of salt haha

Well, I personally wouldn't be bothered if it was gone, but I'm not going to insist on it. If someone likes it, then let them enjoy it. Same with women's football imo.

[sc91]

1 minute ago, XaW said:

Well, I personally wouldn't be bothered if it was gone, but I'm not going to insist on it. If someone likes it, then let them enjoy it. Same with women's football imo.

I'm always a sceptic when a company cuts a long term feature (international management), no doubt to be reintroduced later on down the line as a feature for a later version.

[Craigus89]

3 minutes ago, Dbuk1 said:

Did Miles state that his main focus has been to implement the Gibraltar league? 

You couldn't have missed the point by a wider margin.

4 minutes ago, mackem10 said:

While I would hate for anyone to be the subject of bullying, It seems like an awfully (like ridiculously) high level of censorship in order to counter a possible problem.

 

I bring up the faces and badges because you stated weight didn't change the ME which was apparently of great importance, well nor do they, they provide immersion and realism, the same thing that weight does for me. I understand those who don't use it not caring, I don't care about international football as I don't use it although I can more than understand folk being miffed about that.

 

 

So removing weight is an "awfully, ridiculously high level of censorship"?

LOL. I just can't. 

What a fragile bunch of children.

Edited September 4 by Craigus89

[davehanson]

5 minutes ago, TopToffee said:

It’s been definitively stated that international management isn’t in the game.

Until the point that it’s stated that there isn’t a demo, it is REASONABLE to assume there will be one.

Where did I compare the beta being in to international being removed? 
 

I said people have been told to stop speculating about what the game will have in it. Yet we are allowed to assume there will be a demo and a beta. Okay…….

[Dbuk1]

Just now, Craigus89 said:

You couldn't have missed the point by a wider margin.

 

If you could help me out?

[TopToffee]

6 minutes ago, davehanson said:

Please tell me how many people have said they don’t care about internationals management as opposed to those who have said they don’t care about women’s football

In the past 2 pages about 10 people have felt the need to inform everyone they don’t care about women’s football.

 

2 have said they don’t care about international management being removed. Well 1.5 really - one just said they’re comfortable with it being removed if it can’t be implemented properly in time.

[TopToffee]

Just now, davehanson said:

Where did I compare the beta being in to international being removed? 
 

I said people have been told to stop speculating about what the game will have in it. Yet we are allowed to assume there will be a demo and a beta. Okay…….

You’re free to assume what you like. I’m playing the odds and will assume there will be a demo.

i didn’t mention a beta.

[XaW]

1 minute ago, sc91 said:

I'm always a sceptic when a company cuts a long term feature (international management), no doubt to be reintroduced later on down the line as a feature for a later version.

If they reimplement it as is, then I agree. If they spend the time revamping it into something that works a lot better than it does right now, then I'm all for it. I had a go on international management in FM24 and it's really not worth to play in its current state imo.