FM 25 DEVELOPMENT UPDATE

[Etebaer]

International Management is bad to play so few players actually like it thus SI does not invest the necessary Devtime into reworking it which keeps the playerparticipation low and makes it possibly even shrink letting SI pandering even more if they should spend any effort on it - i think we have a self fulfilling prophecy here!

Honestly - there is every 2 years a huge marketing chance for international football almost for free but SI needs to give some braintime into it so the mode does not suck - any by now they should have enough playerfeedback why it sucks!

Making decisons based on raw statistics is allways wrong and if not it was random luck - to make a good decision you need to understand why the statistic shows a certain number!

 

I fully expected all kind of struggles with the change of the engine and it comes to no surprise to me that it has repercussions on the development of FM25 - its good they are upfront honest!

[themadsheep2001]

Have had to remove a few posts. 

Once again for those at the back: anyone suggesting someone or people should be removed from their jobs, will be removed from the thread. 

[themadsheep2001]

14 minutes ago, Mobius said:

My understanding is that International Management has been 99% the same for years, as far as I can remember nothing major has changed with it (as I guess the fact it's being removed and revamped shows) , so what changed in FM25 that made it need to be removed, when it was included in all previous versions.

In fact the features page on the official FM24 page mentions "Discover new ways to setup your game world and approach your career, plus fresh ways to approach squad planning at both your club and National Team." so this was considered a selling point last year.

Is there a reason International Management couldn't be left in FM25 as it currently exists, and also improved for FM26?

The blog post makes some mention of the issues of moving stuff over to the new engine etc but that doesn't seem to be specific to International Management, I can't imagine it's fundamentally different to shifting the non-international management aspects of the game... It also says they've paused work on that area and allocated resources to other key areas, but again I'm not sure why that means binning International Management entirely, rather than leaving it as it is, and has been for many previous iterations of FM?

Only 5.6% of PC Players have used International Mode according to the blog. I'd love to see more stats like that. How many people are using the "Player Targets" feature which was introduced last year?

Suspect the answer is Unity. Why recreate something into a new system if you're going to rip it up anyway.  Might as well not waste time and resources putting it there in the first place. 

[Kcinnay]

3 minutes ago, themadsheep2001 said:

Have had to remove a few posts. 

Once again for those at the back: anyone suggesting someone or people should be removed from their jobs, will be removed from the thread. 

I thought I was polite. In short: I guess (or hope at least) there'll be plenty of good to say and show about FM25. Do it. Especially when in charge. The comparison with how absurdly quick managers can be sacked in real life football was to make the comparison. Not to say he should be dismissed.

So for those at the back: I'm still optimistic, I applaud the implementation of women's football (something for which the gaffer deserves much respect and I'm lookin' forward to it, coming from a background as a football coach at top tier level in women's football in Belgium) because it will give it a huge boost in real life - and I expect that huge graphical and tactical changes are to be expected - for the better. BUT some sort of salesmanship wouldn't hurt. Otherwise this wouldn't be a trending topic late in the evening, at the start of the night.

[MatthewS17]

So, taking all that extra time for FM25 for this big reveal was....... for what, exactly? 

It seems like more has been taken away than added. The UI was clunky before, the screenshot just look like a different version of clunky and outdated. Adding women's football, but taking out the international aspect. Whether or not it is played by many. This is a whole feature, where there's been a problem encountered, and rather than fixing it, just a shrug and removing it from the game for this edition. Not even adding it later. The whole edition. 

I'm mystified trying to wrap my head around this. 

You'd think we're talking about releases as complicated as Cyberpunk was.

Oh, right Projekt Red actually fixes the issues with their game. My bad, forgot that part. 

[santy001]

4 minutes ago, MatthewS17 said:

You'd think we're talking about releases as complicated as Cyberpunk was.

Oh, right Projekt Red actually fixes the issues with their game.

It's an interesting comparison but probably not for the reasons you're going after. 

If I'm correct in remembering this, Cyberpunk was the final game CDProjektRed built on their own internal engine. They're a studio who have been around for a while building games and were running into technical issues in terms of the limitations of what they could achieve with their engine and following the success of Witcher 3 had onboarded a lot of staff who struggled to work effectively with their internal set-up.

There's no hidden insight or secret knowledge I have, but SI have been around for a very long time in gaming terms and were realistically at the same point where they have been hitting the limits of what is possible with their internal tech. SI have also been at it long enough that statistically speaking there's a good chance people have been retiring after long careers with SI and certainly some big names within the studio have moved elsewhere as happens in the industry. So another situation where you have to onboard staff and help them apply their skills to a setup they probably have minimal familiarity with.

The switch to Unity is now another problem because you've likely got a lot of staff who if they've been there for a while likely never used Unity. How Witcher 4 plays on Unreal will be the mark of judging how successful CDProjektRed manage their equivalent transition. 

Cyberpunk is a game I really enjoyed, in my opinion easily the best of it's genre that came out between RDR2 and BG3. It took nearly 3 years though for it to reach the point of Phantom Liberty coming out and doing some of the serious lifting that put its name back in a good place.

[kiwityke1983]

4 hours ago, Mobius said:

How many people are using the "Player Targets" feature which was introduced last year?

I'd suggest very few seeing as I could never get a player to agree to them.

This is how they consistently went:

Me- Sends an 18 year old kid on loan - "how about we set a target?"

18 year old kid to his manager: - "get lost loser I'm far too good a player to be having to deal with targets"

Repeat for all but 1 or 2 players I managed to get to accept them.

I gave up even attempting to give people targets sometime during my beta save.

And yes I flagged this as a problem at the time saying players shouldn't be allowed to refuse targets, they should be able to get upset at being given too difficult to achieve targets, but they shouldn't be able to refuse.

[whatsupdoc]

3 hours ago, MatthewS17 said:

So, taking all that extra time for FM25 for this big reveal was....... for what, exactly? 

It seems like more has been taken away than added. The UI was clunky before, the screenshot just look like a different version of clunky and outdated. Adding women's football, but taking out the international aspect. Whether or not it is played by many. This is a whole feature, where there's been a problem encountered, and rather than fixing it, just a shrug and removing it from the game for this edition. Not even adding it later. The whole edition. 

I'm mystified trying to wrap my head around this. 

You'd think we're talking about releases as complicated as Cyberpunk was.

Oh, right Projekt Red actually fixes the issues with their game. My bad, forgot that part. 

Given the uncertain feeling it probably makes sense for them not to reveal too much, so they're not committed to anything that may not end up working. Bit late in the game to be thinking like that, but probably good practice.

[ostkiz]

Maths don't lie, we will see Fm25 numbers and if his path is going as well as they expect. 

Right now looks like I will enjoy the 24 as much as I can, and have a lof of free time in 2025.

SI that's not the way, when a company don't listen the community there is a huge problem, and you have been doing this for many years, the only thing it's saving you is that there isn't a real competence. 

Edited September 5 by ostkiz

[SkyNoudyo]

I reckon what’s going on here is that they were working on women’s football from the start, while for international management it would depend on how easy it is to convert from the old to the new engine. Then they came to the conclusion it would take too long, or they would maybe even have to rewrite it from scratch, and so it can’t be developed in time.

I can imagine though, regarding two points:

Weight will most likely be visible using a custom skin, the same as simulating matches, and;

SI cannot afford to just do a data update of $10; they need to keep the lights running and their staff paid. 

Edited September 5 by SkyNoudyo

[RandomGuy.]

6 hours ago, themadsheep2001 said:

Suspect the answer is Unity. Why recreate something into a new system if you're going to rip it up anyway.  Might as well not waste time and resources putting it there in the first place. 

But what would they need to uniquely create for International management? That's what I'm confused about.

Squad registrations will be in the game. Moving players between squads will be in the game. Presumably the AI will be selecting International squads so eligibility parameters will be in the game. International tournaments will be in the game. International breaks will be in the game. You'll likely be able to view other clubs matches still?

There wasn't a huge amount else that I can think of around International management?

I don't understand what massive thing is missing that makes it better to block everyone from being an International manager than just having the basic version we've had for years? I'd be surprised if people wouldn't rather the basic version than none, particularly those interested in women's football where a lot of leagues are still so unbalanced that International football is a big draw.

[XaW]

3 minutes ago, RandomGuy. said:

But what would they need to uniquely create for International management? That's what I'm confused about.

Squad registrations will be in the game. Moving players between squads will be in the game. Presumably the AI will be selecting International squads so eligibility parameters will be in the game. International tournaments will be in the game. International breaks will be in the game. You'll likely be able to view other clubs matches still?

There wasn't a huge amount else that I can think of around International management?

I don't understand what massive thing is missing that makes it better to block everyone from being an International manager than just having the basic version we've had for years? I'd be surprised if people wouldn't rather the basic version than none, particularly those interested in women's football where a lot of leagues are still so unbalanced that International football is a big draw.

You can read my comments about earlier in the thread for my guess, but if you are not familiar with coding or software development, it's not easy for SI to give details without going into very technical explanations, I assume. In my earlier comments, I said I think it's because they would need to port to Unity and that they see that they struggle to to so with the existing code for international management. So instead of spending massive amounts of time and resources on doing that with a subpar feature, they decided to scrap it and rebuild it in the future instead. This gives them more time to make the rest of the move to Unity better (I hope) instead of doing everything halfway.

[lijieneo]

Drop International Management Mod. Is this all done to convert a PC game into a Mobile game? By the way, you can play International Management Mod on FM25 Mobile, right?

Wait, no Weight. Hmmm...

Edited September 5 by lijieneo

[DP]

8 minutes ago, XaW said:

You can read my comments about earlier in the thread for my guess, but if you are not familiar with coding or software development, it's not easy for SI to give details without going into very technical explanations, I assume. In my earlier comments, I said I think it's because they would need to port to Unity and that they see that they struggle to to so with the existing code for international management. So instead of spending massive amounts of time and resources on doing that with a subpar feature, they decided to scrap it and rebuild it in the future instead. This gives them more time to make the rest of the move to Unity better (I hope) instead of doing everything halfway.

Technical explanations are ok though - look at how the latest Crusader Kings 3 dev diary starts 😅

https://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/developer-diary/dev-diary-155-the-shattered-empire.1701999/

[Javier]

hace 11 horas, santy001 dijo:

The biggest barriers to including a league like the Saudi League will be licensing and research, it's not especially easy to just find people to do that. 

Speaking of which, do we know if there's been extra researchers recruited for the women's database? Because if it's the same team doing both men and women the accuracy of the database for both football worlds, so to speak, is certain to suffer as a result.

Edited September 5 by Javier

[XaW]

2 minutes ago, DP said:

Technical explanations are ok though - look at how the latest Crusader Kings 3 dev diary starts 😅

https://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/developer-diary/dev-diary-155-the-shattered-empire.1701999/

Tbf, I have a feeling that CK fans are a bit more technical than FM fans!

I personally wouldn't mind this from SI, but I don't think the reception for updates would be any better (for the general audience) if Miles got a dev to dig deep into why it would be hard to move the code to Unity! 

[Javier]

hace 12 minutos, XaW dijo:

Tbf, I have a feeling that CK fans are a bit more technical than FM fans!

A bit off topic but to be honest I've been pleasantly surprised lately by the amount of people that play both FM and Paradox games (me being one of them of course ). I guess they both scratch the same nerdy alternate worlds itch.

Edited September 5 by Javier

[kiwityke1983]

4 minutes ago, XaW said:

I don't think the reception for updates would be any better (for the general audience) if Miles got a dev to dig deep into why it would be hard to move the code to Unity! 

It couldn't be any worse.

The two updates so far have had me personally go from hyped for the new era to pretty worried about what shape the game is in.

Looking around various social media sites this morning I'm not alone with most posts/videos tending towards being worried by the announcements.

I'll really hit the panic button or not when the gameplay drops.

[davehanson]

25 minutes ago, XaW said:

You can read my comments about earlier in the thread for my guess, but if you are not familiar with coding or software development, it's not easy for SI to give details without going into very technical explanations, I assume. In my earlier comments, I said I think it's because they would need to port to Unity and that they see that they struggle to to so with the existing code for international management. So instead of spending massive amounts of time and resources on doing that with a subpar feature, they decided to scrap it and rebuild it in the future instead. This gives them more time to make the rest of the move to Unity better (I hope) instead of doing everything halfway.

But this is kind of what I don’t understand to be honest - and a more detailed explanation from someone at SI might prove helpful.

Internationals will continue from their blog - so players will get called up, caps and goals will appear, managers will get sacked and hired, tournaments will be played - so it kind of strikes me as almost running it as a ‘view only’ league - that seems fair to say?

So they must have had to code that? Surely then it is just a case of allowing a player to take charge? I understand it would be basic with no training etc - but that’s what we have at the moment. And if they would have done that, and explained that it would be improved on next year, I can only speak for myself, I would be happy with that. Or if they can come out and say why they can make it ‘view only’ but not playable. Something just feels ‘off’.

[Micho21]

hace 10 horas, SPE3D dijo:

The general vibe of that latest development article is not encouraging. I wouldn't be surprised if this year's game is eventually scrapped and they go to FM26. A move I wouldn't be against if it meant we got a playable game.

I feel the same. To be a bit optimistic, they had similar vibes with FM24 (it was perceived as just a small actualization of FM23) and it was such a good edition imho, quite a bit better than the previous one.

But this is a bit different, I think they are really in a hurry and worried about the deadline, they put so many eggs in the basket and now they are not fully convinced to deliver all of them properly.

[XaW]

24 minutes ago, Javier said:

A bit off topic but to be honest I've been pleasantly surprised lately by the amount of people that play both FM and Paradox games (me being one of them of course ). I guess they both scratch the same nerdy alternate worlds itch.

I do too, so there must be some overlap, but I know too many people who only play FM and would never call themselves gamers or anything else. They just like football and FM lets them scratch that itch, it seems,

24 minutes ago, kiwityke1983 said:

It couldn't be any worse.

The two updates so far have had me personally go from hyped for the new era to pretty worried about what shape the game is in.

Looking around various social media sites this morning I'm not alone with most posts/videos tending towards being worried by the announcements.

I'll really hit the panic button or not when the gameplay drops.

I think we know far too little to be worried just yet. Apart from the fact that SI are finding out that certain part of the game are harder to port to Unity than others, we know very little of what the game will look like or play as. I'm waiting for more detail (and screenshots! not just some UI mockups) until I decide if I like where things are going. But seeing that the UI will most likely be shaken up quite a bit, I think a certain number of players will dislike it no matter. FMers are quite conservative and would rather like old issues than new solutions!  

21 minutes ago, davehanson said:

But this is kind of what I don’t understand to be honest - and a more detailed explanation from someone at SI might prove helpful.

Internationals will continue from their blog - so players will get called up, caps and goals will appear, managers will get sacked and hired, tournaments will be played - so it kind of strikes me as almost running it as a ‘view only’ league - that seems fair to say?

So they must have had to code that? Surely then it is just a case of allowing a player to take charge? I understand it would be basic with no training etc - but that’s what we have at the moment. And if they would have done that, and explained that it would be improved on next year, I can only speak for myself, I would be happy with that. Or if they can come out and say why they can make it ‘view only’ but not playable. Something just feels ‘off’.

We don't know the details, but SI do, and I think they know that removing it would cause fallout with a number of fans, so I don't think SI have taken this road without taking fans reactions into consideration. So it would seem like adding it would cost more than the fallout of removing it, and for me, that says a lot about how difficult or time consuming it would have to be... That said, I would also be more than happy to get a more detailed or technical explanation for the reason.

[armbi]

1 hour ago, ostkiz said:

the only thing it's saving you is that there isn't a real competence

Exactly. If they had real competition on the market, FM 23 and FM 24 would not be ordinary DLCs, and FM 25 would be fully ready to play without any weaknesses. Well, that's the advantage of monopoly, you can do more with your customers.

[RandomGuy.]

1 hour ago, XaW said:

You can read my comments about earlier in the thread for my guess, but if you are not familiar with coding or software development, it's not easy for SI to give details without going into very technical explanations, I assume. In my earlier comments, I said I think it's because they would need to port to Unity and that they see that they struggle to to so with the existing code for international management. So instead of spending massive amounts of time and resources on doing that with a subpar feature, they decided to scrap it and rebuild it in the future instead. This gives them more time to make the rest of the move to Unity better (I hope) instead of doing everything halfway.

I get all that, I just can't figure out, at all, what extra code there will be for International management compared to club management.

It's literally the same apart from more registration windows (which will be in the game for AI managers), and less fixtures.

It would be nice to hear confirmation they're not completely removing International football from the game, as that would make more sense than them having it in but AI controlled.

[XaW]

1 minute ago, RandomGuy. said:

I get all that, I just can't figure out, at all, what extra code there will be for International management compared to club management.

It's literally the same apart from more registration windows (which will be in the game for AI managers), and less fixtures.

It would be nice to hear confirmation they're not completely removing International football from the game, as that would make more sense than them having it in but AI controlled.

If I understood it correctly, international football will be in the game in general with callup and the world cup and such, just not for us to manage.

[kiwityke1983]

10 minutes ago, XaW said:

I think we know far too little to be worried just yet. Apart from the fact that SI are finding out that certain part of the game are harder to port to Unity than others, we know very little of what the game will look like or play as. I'm waiting for more detail (and screenshots! not just some UI mockups) until I decide if I like where things are going. But seeing that the UI will most likely be shaken up quite a bit, I think a certain number of players will dislike it no matter. FMers are quite conservative and would rather like old issues than new solutions!  

It's the tone of the updates linked to the details of them that has me worried. 

So far nothing that's been cut particularly worries me or the direction of the new UI etc it's the fact we've got features being cut, delays to the release, Miles cancelling holidays and all we've seen are some pretty rough looking mock ups!

All of that added together plus throw in the general tone of the updates which are largely tempering expectations rather than hyping them and I am at this point in time fairly worried as to what shape the games in as the picture painted by the updates isn't positive IMO.

This could of course all switch round when we see some gameplay, especially of the ME which is makes up about 80% of whether an FM is good or not in my mind.

[Craigus89]

2 minutes ago, XaW said:

If I understood it correctly, international football will be in the game in general with callup and the world cup and such, just not for us to manage.

Even more or a reason why the decision not to let users manage those teams is a strange one, if most, or a lot of the background mechanics are in place for the simulation anyway.

[XaW]

1 minute ago, kiwityke1983 said:

It's the tone of the updates linked to the details of them that has me worried. 

So far nothing that's been cut particularly worries me or the direction of the new UI etc it's the fact we've got features being cut, delays to the release, Miles cancelling holidays and all we've seen are some pretty rough looking mock ups!

All of that added together plus throw in the general tone of the updates which are largely tempering expectations rather than hyping them and I am at this point in time fairly worried as to what shape the games in as the picture painted by the updates isn't positive IMO.

This could of course all switch round when we see some gameplay, especially of the ME which is makes up about 80% of whether an FM is good or not in my mind.

I hope, they are just getting the negatives out early and then focus on the positives later on, but who knows. I just think we know far too little to make any educated guess as to how it will work. And unless you are a die hard international manager or a huge fan of women's football, no one can be very positive or negative about things yet. At least that's how I see it.

Just now, Craigus89 said:

Even more or a reason why the decision not to let users manage those teams is a strange one, if most, or a lot of the background mechanics are in place for the simulation anyway.

Not really, it could be that the general stuff is easy to move, but the manager specifics are the hard ones. Who knows, at this point? I would love for more details, but I think SI knew this decision wouldn't be taken with joy from the fan base, so I don't think they did this on a whim...

[Kubix21800]

Wow, this dev update definitely shows that the FM25 is in rough spot in terms of development. It'll probably be the first Football Manager game in a while that I'll skip, unless some drastic updates will make the game better.

Removal of several features, with the international management and no weight status in player profile the most recent ones, it unfortunately feels like FM25 is a half baked game that needs far more time than over 2 months to actually be considered a well polished game.

[BillHoudini24]

The thing is, besides the separate discussions about weight, international management, create-a-club, etc, FM25 has already been a disaster from a project development perspective.

Part of my job is to develop products/tools for clients. If at this point of development, I had nothing to show for (please don't mention those screenshots published a few months ago) and all my updates to the client were about removing parts of the product that existed when we made the initial deal, I am 100% sure that the client would take their business elsewhere, because there are hundreds, if not thousands of other companies that can do a similar job to mine.

That's the problem with monopolies and I am saying this as someone who has been buying the game almost every year since 2006, I suppose I qualify as a "loyal" customer.

It's September and we have no concrete news about AI behavior, player interactions, graphics, newgen faces, things that the majority of the client base is truly concerned about. It is sad to realise, but it has become quite difficult to justify supporting the company this year. It's not a financial justification, but more of a matter of principle.

 

[Kubix21800]

15 hours ago, Os said:

Was I the only one who found Nick Maddens departure disturbing?

Wait,  he's gone?! When did he leave?

[armbi]

9 minutes ago, Kubix21800 said:

it unfortunately feels like FM25 is a half baked game that needs far more time than over 2 months to actually be considered a well polished game.

From a marketing perspective, it's a good policy. You can now develop FM like Paradox games and earn money normally.

[kiwityke1983]

21 minutes ago, XaW said:

I hope, they are just getting the negatives out early and then focus on the positives later on, but who knows. I just think we know far too little to make any educated guess as to how it will work. And unless you are a die hard international manager or a huge fan of women's football, no one can be very positive or negative about things yet. At least that's how I see it.

I too hope they are getting the negatives out first before wowing me with the positives.

But as a layman standing on the outside looking at the information available I can't help but feel that SI are in panic mode and the development isn't going well from what they themselves have told me.

It's a bold marketing strategy let's see how it works out.

I'm very much looking forward to the end of September and hopefully some actual new feature releases to get excited by.

[Staf9]

just seen the update. really disappointed about the release delay. I find the longer we go into the actual football season the desire to pay the game drops. 

amazed at them dropping international management from FM25. saying its an area few play is a weak excuse IMO as the reason people dont play it is due to the limitations on it as we cant train the players during a tournament so after 2 matches they are all tired. this is something that has been brought up for years so you would think it would've been reviewed before now. it would seem simple to add the ability to have 2-3 coaches at international level and a training set up. 

 

[Kubix21800]

13 minutes ago, armbi said:

From a marketing perspective, it's a good policy. You can now develop FM like Paradox games and earn money normally.

I see your point, but Paradox makes one game every few years, in that time span selling DLCs to add new content.

SI would have to abandon yearly releases in order to develop FM like Paradox.

[qwerty22]

I think SI have been very smart in coming up with controversy every release to improve exposure and PR, Some examples:

- Qatar world cup where they prevented it from happening in winter and was never hosted in Qatar in the summer in the game.

- Gay footballers coming out

- Removing Russia

- Brexit

The modern gaming industry is not about the quality of the product but about how much money you can make even if it means moving away from the principles that got you there and not fixing any key issues for years.

Micro transactions will come and we will have to accept that it's the era we live in.

Can't manage a national team this year, Maybe next year we will be limited to 20 seasons.

 

 

Edited September 5 by qwerty22

[FCP_Football]

Dropping international football because no one plays it, for womens football that no one is going to play.

 

Waste of dev time.

[Carmi88]

2 minutes ago, qwerty22 said:

I think SI have been very smart in coming up with controversy every release to improve exposure and PR, Some examples:

- Qatar world cup where they prevented it from happening in winter and was never hosted in Qatar in the summer in the game.

- Gay footballers coming out

- Removing Russia

- Brexit

The modern gaming industry is not about the quality of the product but about how much money you can make even if it means moving away from the principles that got you there and not fixing any key issues for years.

Micro transactions will come and we will have to accept that it's the era we live in.

Can't manage a national team this year, Maybe next year we will be limited to 20 seasons.

 

 

These were controversial?

[CamAshworth]

The fact that half the "FM25 update" is taken up by the esports world cup - which from what I can see was just a massive back slapping exercise of all the usual faces in the content creator scene again is quite literally laughable.

I presume the same faces will be rolled out again from Si Towers telling us how great the new game is again in the coming weeks and months.

As was mentioned earlier in the thread Nick Madden leaving abruptly with absolutely no fanfare or thanks (That I have seen) from Si or Miles was very worrying.

 

[whatsupdoc]

3 minutes ago, FCP_Football said:

Dropping international football because no one plays it, for womens football that no one is going to play.

 

Waste of dev time.

I'll play it

[Carmi88]

4 minutes ago, whatsupdoc said:

I'll play it

Same, gotta knock those Chelsea women off their high horse and get the arsenal ladies back on top

[qwerty22]

9 minutes ago, Carmi88 said:

These were controversial?

 

 Yes , Go back on these forums and read for yourself, It was carnage

- Brexit wasn't confirmed at the time and nobody knew if it would affect football in terms of EU player restrictions and SI were wrong coz in real life EU players didn't count as foreign

- Qatar world cup took place in the winter and was very successful 

The controversy was in the lack of option for the player to switch it on or off, The same with International management/Weight  we can just have a switch to toggle it on or off instead of forcing the paying customers and involving them in some political statements that they have nothing to do with.

 

Edited September 5 by qwerty22

[armbi]

13 minutes ago, Kubix21800 said:

SI would have to abandon yearly releases in order to develop FM like Paradox.

Cannot agree here. Last years releases looks just the same like for example Europa Universalis - cosmetic changes, no big new features, but you pay full price.

[Craigus89]

12 minutes ago, Carmi88 said:

These were controversial?

Only to the type of people who find it offensive that they can't see women's weights listed.

[themadsheep2001]

25 minutes ago, Carmi88 said:

These were controversial?

No. As ever it was a small group of people on the forum being loud for a little while. 

[themadsheep2001]

19 minutes ago, Carmi88 said:

Same, gotta knock those Chelsea women off their high horse and get the arsenal ladies back on top

Will sending United to knock you both off. 

[Brentford Alan]

20 minutes ago, FCP_Football said:

Dropping international football because no one plays it, for womens football that no one is going to play.

 

Waste of dev time.

 

Sigh, international football has not been dropped, being able to control an international team is taking a year hiatus so they can develop a much better mode as requested by the community for a long long time. I gave international management a go on FM22 for the first (and currently last) time in years and it was crap. 

Dropping it for a year to allow it to be properly developed in to a genuinely worthwhile game mode is a good move rather than another half-baked idea shoehorned in for the sake of it, if you really need to play as an international manager stick with FM24 or the latest version you have and download the updated databases provided by the community. If it doesn't appear in FM26 that's on SI and they'll deserve what stick they get for it.

And if only 5.6% of the player base play the women's version of the game I dare say in a few years it'll be dropped as well.

[forameuss]

8 hours ago, MatthewS17 said:

Oh, right Projekt Red actually fixes the issues with their game. My bad, forgot that part. 

3 years later.  And only when they had a DLC to flog.  And then sometimes not even then.

[Brentford Alan]

2 hours ago, Javier said:

Speaking of which, do we know if there's been extra researchers recruited for the women's database? Because if it's the same team doing both men and women the accuracy of the database for both football worlds, so to speak, is certain to suffer as a result.

 

There has been recruitment of researchers for the women's game, although some current men's team researchers may also take on the female side of their club as well. If they have (I really don't know if any at all have) I'm sure they've considered whether they can handle the extra responsibility before committing to the task.

[DP]

I would love to understand SI’s vision for international football. Is it for the player to mange an international side only, true to life? If so, good luck with ensuring there is enough to do outside of the fixtures. 

I don’t mind the current way it is implemented as it’s light and breezy enough to make sure it doesn’t over burden the player with their club duties. Only a few fixes and tweaks needed really. 

[Cavjj]

I'm among those who are generally disappointed by the update.

Disclaimer: I log 500 to 100 hours with each edition. I buy the minute the beta drops and the in-game editor, so, what, £50 a year? For 500-1000 hours of entertainment, that's amazing value, and I've been happy with this arrangement year after year.  I'm full of admiration for what Miles + Co continue to achieve with each edition.

I'm not a regular poster on the forum, but I'm very much a regular player (and I spent one season as a researcher a long time back).

The player base was fully aware that FM25 would be a significant step. I think we appreciated there might be teething problems.

I think it's great that women's football is being introduced. I'm not a huge fan of that side of the game in real life, but I'm interested in playing in a brand-new environment, so I'll definitely check it out. The hiding of the weight attribute is a little regrettable, but personally, it won't make a huge difference to me.

The temporary removal of international management, though, is shocking. I can only repeat what plenty of others have already said in the thread: that such a low percentage of players engage with international management indicates the state of it as a play environment—it's not indicative of interest. Players have been calling for an international management revamp for years. I could perhaps stomach this removal a bit more when/if FM commits to a properly revamped international experience for FM26. (Edit: On re-reading I see the update commits to "international management will return in a much more feature-rich way to FM26,")

But more than the actual game details, the update's tone is uncomfortable and unfortunate. We're grateful for transparency, and we genuinely are, but tempering expectations with emotional matters such as cancelled vacations is grim and unfair to the player base. We know the team is working very, very hard.

The result must be that the team smashes the new match engine out of the park. I've no doubt they will.

Edited September 5 by Cavjj