FM 25 DEVELOPMENT UPDATE

[Hzano123]

4 minutes ago, kiwityke1983 said:

The thing is there have been two different justifications so far.

5% of players for some game modes.

5% of SAVES for international management.

Which would suggest the number of players using international management is much higher than 5%!

Personally I've never used 2D since they introduced 3D so it wouldn't bother me if they cut it but I know a lot of people love it.

I'll be happy with even a moderate graphical improvement and players having actual physical form so collisions between players happen, that would be the number 1 immersion increaser for me in the ME.

The weird thing for international football is that it stuck in the weird paradox

SI said the game mode not being played by player base -> SI not focus much on International -> The mode suck -> Players complain and ask/ suggest to improve it (still no rest in International football even if it been asked for years) -> SI did very little to improve it -> The players try to play but still suck so they drop it mid way -> The player base play it less and less -> SI said the mode is not being play alot.

 

Like bruh the reason the mode not being played is because the mode not being improved much, even when we are in big event of the year which is the world cup.

[kiwityke1983]

14 minutes ago, Hzano123 said:

The weird thing for international football is that it stuck in the weird paradox

SI said the game mode not being played by player base -> SI not focus much on International -> The mode suck -> Players complain and ask/ suggest to improve it (still no rest in International football even if it been asked for years) -> SI did very little to improve it -> The players try to play but still suck so they drop it mid way -> The player base play it less and less -> SI said the mode is not being play alot.

 

Like bruh the reason the mode not being played is because the mode not being improved much, even when we are in big event of the year which is the world cup.

I can't remember the last version of FM I didn't play at least one or two saves where I did a stint of international management.

It's not every save but definitely every version of FM I have at least one or two saves where I do some international management jobs, usually England or NZ (my actual countries).

The blog is carefully worded to justify taking the option away by using the percentage of saves instead of players.

The percentage of players who played internationally has to be far higher than the percentage of saves.

Due to test saves and other such things I've probably started 50+ saves in FM24, 3 of which have had me do some international management.

I'd imagine almost everyone who played international management is in the same boat.

[Tonton_Zola]

10 hours ago, Dagenham_Dave said:

I'd be very surprised if the graphics in the first version of the new engine will be that amazing, comparatively speaking.  To run SI's match engine and marry it up with state of the art graphics would be a big ask whilst still making it accessible for a lot of the user base. 

I can foresee a lot of people expecting too much to be majorly disappointed. 

On the plus side, I've got the order in for extra popcorn, so it's all good. 

I am generally an optimistic person, but my two pennies:

The real UI screenshots won’t look too different from those WIP files.

The match day graphics will represent a marginal improvement, but still disappoint most here, including myself.

Happy to be quoted on this when it’s all revealed.

my faith in the SI project over the last half decade at so - its prioritisation, its comms, its pursuit of public interest press, its general executive decision-making - is extremely low sadly.
 

Women’s football is a noble endeavour but, let’s be clear, the data will almost certainly lay near the true extent of interest in it currently, and that its development has taken x % of total resource in a  game rebuild cycle says everything you need to know…

[Tetsuro P12]

I hope SI wont really care about those few saying "don't focus on the 3D match engine", they aren't football lovers but just 'chess players' that would like any game full of micromanagement to fullfill their rainy days.

Of course the players cares a lot about the 3D match engine, and expect to see there the major improvements, because they actually like 'played football'.

Instead, remove the stressful and useless micromanagement. Football Mamager Console is the best thing happened to the series after Championship Manager 97/98.

They sure have enough data to know how many players actually play 3D matches. I for one play full games, it's just nice to see an entire match, how it develops.

Edited September 7 by Tetsuro P12

[RandomGuy.]

Am I the only one who thinks the screenshots we've seen so far of the game look good?

I love the old games style but I think the news one suffer more because they've not actually changed a whole lot in about 10 years bar removing colour.

If they add colour, with a fresher, simpler, look, then that'll be great I reckon, and get rid of some screen fatigue. I can barely play the game without skins anymore because it feels like I've been playing the same game for years otherwise.

 

[El Payaso]

59 minutes ago, Tetsuro P12 said:

Instead, remove the stressful and useless micromanagement. 

What do you mean by this? In my opinion match days should only be one part of the game and definitely not the biggest. Other areas also need to have plenty of interesting things to do and I would definitely hope that for example creating a style of play and setting up training would have more features and that they would consume more of our time. Many things have been simplified too much on FM. 

[(sic)]

14 hours ago, flogside said:

This is what happens when the focus is on making a game look more like FIFA than worrying about the gameplay and immersion. The game, in my opinion, never needed to be upgraded graphically. It's football manager not FIFA manager. There has been issues in the game for so many years that needed addressing more than a graphical overhaul. Yes, international management being one of them, academies and youth representation in-game, another. But year after year the game has been bogged down by pointless things like social media rubbish, press conferences etc that it takes so long to play......for the older FM fan it's now almost impossible and too tedious to play. Too many clicks to get anything done. 

I've no issue with women's football being introduced, but not at the expense of progress in other areas!

I stopped playing this game regularly around 2015 and this update and the whole move and importance of graphics to si has reminded me why. 

Certainly won't be purchasing FM25. Need to find me a legal digital download of FM12 to buy!

I hope FM25 turns out to be a huge success but SI clearly have graphics and 3d engine as priority. Perhaps including women's football at the same time as a graphical overhaul was a little short sighted, if not admirable!

 

 

 

New Engine is not there just for better graphics or a graphical overhaul. Yes, that's one of the things it brings, but that's not the only reason they're doing this.

Also, graphics do very much improve your immersion, so I just don't understand your point.

 

I don't understand how you can say that SI have been focusing on 3d and graphics for so long, yet every single year people are complaining how graphics are awful, how they're a downgrade from 10 years ago, how they look like straight from the 90s. It's obvious that the graphics haven't been important to them that much. Or rather, the engine they had didn't support something better.

You mentioned immersion, and a few sentences later, you complain about "social media rubbish", press conferences, etc. that make the game more bloated.
Those things are actually there to add immersion. Now yes, I can agree those things have been implemented poorly, and I personally do dislike those features, however there's a potential there to make it way more immersive, and less annoying to deal with.

 

The engine itself brings so many more possibilities to this game, they can now implement that they maybe couldn't before, your immersion will improve, the graphics will improve, the UI/UX hopefully do improve (and these are not just for "looks", anyone who has any understanding of what UX actually means, will know that), existing features will be done in a much better way (except those will only come into the game in FM26 ).

 

 

[jmlima]

13 hours ago, Dagenham_Dave said:

I'd be very surprised if the graphics in the first version of the new engine will be that amazing, comparatively speaking.  To run SI's match engine and marry it up with state of the art graphics would be a big ask whilst still making it accessible for a lot of the user base. 

...

Guys, unity is not 'state of the art graphics'. Been saying that for a while. It's a real struggle to find a scenario, other than for an indy developer, where the answer to 'great graphics engine' is unity. Unity is all about portability and multi-platforms not state of the art graphics. There's a reason why the guys behind FIFA not only developed their own engine but dragged that byzantine mess behind them all the way to the end without ever changing engine. 

[Blünderbossu]

It's certainly a nice thing to have if the engine looks better graphically but I hope they're staying laser-focused on how it plays. I suspect a pretty but unbalanced and glitchy match engine would not be perceived as an improvement. If they're struggling for time I pray they'll throw everything at functionality and leave making it shiny until next year.

Edited September 7 by Blünderbossu

[jmlima]

Also, to be fair to SI, they are not alone in this. They are not their own bosses. For better or for worse, Sega Sammy has got a say in a lot of things, certainly release dates, release schedules and even, to a degree, content and prioritising content. That's pretty normal when a developer is owned by a third party that has got an entire catalogue of developers and games to manage. They are a listed company and a fiasco in one of their top series for the European branch does have an impact on the bottom line in more ways than one.

[Livelihood13]

2 hours ago, RandomGuy. said:

Am I the only one who thinks the screenshots we've seen so far of the game look good?

I love the old games style but I think the news one suffer more because they've not actually changed a whole lot in about 10 years bar removing colour.

If they add colour, with a fresher, simpler, look, then that'll be great I reckon, and get rid of some screen fatigue. I can barely play the game without skins anymore because it feels like I've been playing the same game for years otherwise.

 

Nope - I’m in agreement with you!

When I see pics/videos of older FM’s I think the less bloated look feels way more appealing.

Especially with the player base increasing, I’d imagine more people would prefer a clean, simple look. And the data can still be there but buried a bit deeper for all of those who have the time and enjoy that side of things.

[flogside]

1 hour ago, (sic) said:

New Engine is not there just for better graphics or a graphical overhaul. Yes, that's one of the things it brings, but that's not the only reason they're doing this.

Also, graphics do very much improve your immersion, so I just don't understand your point.

 

I don't understand how you can say that SI have been focusing on 3d and graphics for so long, yet every single year people are complaining how graphics are awful, how they're a downgrade from 10 years ago, how they look like straight from the 90s. It's obvious that the graphics haven't been important to them that much. Or rather, the engine they had didn't support something better.

You mentioned immersion, and a few sentences later, you complain about "social media rubbish", press conferences, etc. that make the game more bloated.
Those things are actually there to add immersion. Now yes, I can agree those things have been implemented poorly, and I personally do dislike those features, however there's a potential there to make it way more immersive, and less annoying to deal with.

 

The engine itself brings so many more possibilities to this game, they can now implement that they maybe couldn't before, your immersion will improve, the graphics will improve, the UI/UX hopefully do improve (and these are not just for "looks", anyone who has any understanding of what UX actually means, will know that), existing features will be done in a much better way (except those will only come into the game in FM26 ).

 

 

Because the 3d graphics have been one of the top priorities of SI for years and years. Just because people are complaining each year that they aren't very good doesn't mean they have been prioritising them. They've not been very good because the engine they used for them probably wasn't good enough. That doesn't mean they haven't been important to them. I'm biased, I know. I never wanted 3d graphics in the first place. That was never why I played fm.

I appreciate graphics can have an affect on immersion for people but I started playing this game when it was just commentary and the immersion was just fine. The 2d pitch was the same.

There is a difference between immersion and having pointless features just because they are in the real world. Yes, social media is a thing but what exactly does it add to the game to make you feel more immersed in it? All I see is that people find it irritating and pointless. 

You obviously know more about match engine etc than I do and I totally agree that it's a benefit if what you say is true and it improved all round gameplay. But that likely won't be in FM25. Maybe not even in 26. Maybe it's me and the game has evolved into something that no longer holds as much interest to me. Just appears that it could be going in a direction I'm not as bothered about. Maybe I'll be wrong and it will be amazing. Right now though, these updates......good for transparency but not a great look.

[Reiver]

I am going to throw out an idea that I haven't seen anyone yet bring up.

So, International Management is off cause it's not up to their standard, and they had some difficulties elsewhere so they paused the development of new features there to focus on getting the rest of the game ready on time. This is something they had to know would not be accepted well. At the same time, it is fair to assume that once the game is out, the development of these features will continue; it is also fair to assume that since they were originally planned to come out in this game cycle, the new international management features had to be already fairly developed.

Why not then, once the game is out, focus specifically developing this cut content as a priority with the view to have it available when they update the game in February/March?

Imagine how different even the reaction to the announcement would have been if they had said that.

[Tetsuro P12]

2 ore fa, El Payaso ha scritto:

What do you mean by this? In my opinion match days should only be one part of the game and definitely not the biggest. Other areas also need to have plenty of interesting things to do and I would definitely hope that for example creating a style of play and setting up training would have more features and that they would consume more of our time. Many things have been simplified too much on FM. 

Too much fluff in FM for PC, it's just discouraging to approach it. Long live FM Console and yes, to me, to see my players play a realistic football and being realistic themselves, and the pitch, and the lights, it's all. The other important parts of the game are already in a pretty good state (scouting, transfers, tactics, etc.), except UI an the 3D match engine. Remove the fluff.

[El Payaso]

12 minutes ago, Tetsuro P12 said:

Too much fluff in FM for PC, it's just discouraging to approach it. Long live FM Console and yes, to me, to see my players play a realistic football and being realistic themselves, and the pitch, and the lights, it's all. The other important parts of the game are already in a pretty good state (scouting, transfers, tactics, etc.), except UI an the 3D match engine. Remove the fluff.

Could you still tell me what you consider as fluff? 

And I do agree with you on the ME things. I had a six-year hiatus from the game and was quite annoyed to see that some repetitive scenarios that practically never should happen in a game of football still were there from six years back.

To see a ME that doesn't remind you of ME from years and years ago but gives you a feeling of a new game is high on my priorities too. 

But I would still claim that the match days are just part of the gameplay and shouldn't even be the biggest part. This means that the general gameplay should be both interesting and complex enough. I don't agree that areas like transfers, scouting, training or tactics are at a good state as they currently are. 

[JamieTC13]

I know some of us don't use international management but it still does make the game feel better, see like when you get a job offer from a nation and that so it's just nice to have that option and getting rid of that is a backwards step surly 

[rdbayly]

On 04/09/2024 at 17:47, kiwityke1983 said:

CM4 is always held up as a disaster.

At the time I didn't have the internet so had no clue why the game was delayed etc or that it even was, it was a genuine surprise every year when I'd go into Game and they'd have the new CM.

I also remember absolutely loving the 2D engine at the time, it was revolutionary and really increased my immersion.

I can't imagine the meltdown these days if the game released in March!

I ejected my my CM4 disc and shattered it into a million pieces when my entire squad was on international duty at the Euros on the day of my Champions League final.

It remains to this day the only time I've ever done such a thing.

[Tetsuro P12]

1 ora fa, El Payaso ha scritto:

Could you still tell me what you consider as fluff? 

And I do agree with you on the ME things. I had a six-year hiatus from the game and was quite annoyed to see that some repetitive scenarios that practically never should happen in a game of football still were there from six years back.

To see a ME that doesn't remind you of ME from years and years ago but gives you a feeling of a new game is high on my priorities too. 

But I would still claim that the match days are just part of the gameplay and shouldn't even be the biggest part. This means that the general gameplay should be both interesting and complex enough. I don't agree that areas like transfers, scouting, training or tactics are at a good state as they currently are. 

Everything is important, but some parts of the game requires extra care because still not in a good state, like the 3D match and the UI. The fluff are those things that you micromanage but that aren't actually fun and makes you just waste your time. I have one life and I'm oretty jealous about my time, I do not want to waste it but to have fun with it. So I don't care to micromanagement or to add new useless aspects but to strenghten the actual interesting parts, especially those in needs. Graphics are really meh, and the match engine is more like a pinball then an actual football game. I preferred definitely the old PES in this aspect. It was all scripted but felt more realistic.

I really have high hopes for FM25.

[(sic)]

4 hours ago, flogside said:

Because the 3d graphics have been one of the top priorities of SI for years and years. Just because people are complaining each year that they aren't very good doesn't mean they have been prioritising them. They've not been very good because the engine they used for them probably wasn't good enough. That doesn't mean they haven't been important to them. I'm biased, I know. I never wanted 3d graphics in the first place. That was never why I played fm.

I appreciate graphics can have an affect on immersion for people but I started playing this game when it was just commentary and the immersion was just fine. The 2d pitch was the same.

There is a difference between immersion and having pointless features just because they are in the real world. Yes, social media is a thing but what exactly does it add to the game to make you feel more immersed in it? All I see is that people find it irritating and pointless. 

You obviously know more about match engine etc than I do and I totally agree that it's a benefit if what you say is true and it improved all round gameplay. But that likely won't be in FM25. Maybe not even in 26. Maybe it's me and the game has evolved into something that no longer holds as much interest to me. Just appears that it could be going in a direction I'm not as bothered about. Maybe I'll be wrong and it will be amazing. Right now though, these updates......good for transparency but not a great look.

What do you have to support that claim though? I just can't point out anything that would suggest they are focusing on graphics that much, over the rest of the game.

 

People need to realize that they need to bring in a younger audience as well. To do that, you cannot simply have a game that looks like it came straight out of 90s. To you, graphics make no difference maybe, but to someone else, it's a difference between playing the game, and not trying it out at all.
They cannot rely on people who have played the game for 20 years, and expect it to be and feel the same as it did back then. They have to bring in new people, who have never played the game.

 

In it's current state, social media, press conferences, etc. do not add much, other than being annoying things you have to do. If they're done properly, they have potential to be something more, it remains to be seen though.

 

Just wanted to point out match engine is different from the game engine. Match engine is probably going to stay relatively the same, aka your simulation when you go into a match. 
The new game engine is basically what runs everything else inside the game.

Think of the game engine as a car engine, you have 1.2L, 1.6L, 2.0L, 3.0L engines, they can be petrol, diesel, etc. They make the car run. FM basically had an equivalent of an old 1.2L engine, and there's only so much you can do with that. Upgrading to a new 2.0L engine, more possibilities come with it. More power, speed, etc.
It's the same with FM, the old engine simply isn't suitable enough for what they want to do with the game. Whether it's graphics, more realistic simulation, new UI/UX, how the game looks and plays outside of matches, etc. etc. It can do a job, just like it did until now, but if you want the game to actually improve, and not stay the same year in year out, you have to upgrade the core part of the game.

Of course, not everything will be added now, and as we see, they removed a lot of stuff. But it's a much better base, that will allow them to actually do stuff better.

 

I fully expect FM25 will feel different to play, and obviously some people do not want that, but it is necessary.

The way FM plays now, in many areas, is just not great. It's only because people are used to it, that it's not a problem.

But here we go back to my original point: they need to bring new players in, and to do that, you have to improve the gameplay (on top of graphics).

 

The thing is, all we can talk about now is in theory. In theory this is a great change, that has a lot of potential to improve the game.

In practice, we do not know anything yet. Those mockups of UI that we got previously, were going in a good direction, but looked horrible. The general gameplay, we know nothing about. FM25 might as well be a bad game for all we know. So we just need to wait for some new information, to see new features, or just how old features will work in this new game.

 

Edited September 7 by (sic)

[trevjim]

5 hours ago, Livelihood13 said:

Nope - I’m in agreement with you!

When I see pics/videos of older FM’s I think the less bloated look feels way more appealing.

Especially with the player base increasing, I’d imagine more people would prefer a clean, simple look. And the data can still be there but buried a bit deeper for all of those who have the time and enjoy that side of things.

Absolutely. The sheer data dump can be overwhelming and off-putting. Most of it is largely pointless too.

Two examples:

 

1)  Weight. Been told they are removing it because it doesn't do anything. So there's an example of data that was pointless. I am sure there is so much more that's shown but has little to no effect on the game.

 

2) analysis and feedback from staff during and between matches. If you download the number one tactic from the forums. You will win most matches and punch way above your weight, yet you will get feedback from your staff about being over run in midfield or too high up the pitch or whatever. Meaning of you listened to them. You would make your tactic worse. Again showing that the data they give you is irrelevant and broken.

 

 

Edited September 7 by trevjim

[jmlima]

55 minutes ago, (sic) said:

...

But here we go back to my original point: they need to bring new players in, and to do that, you have to improve the gameplay (on top of graphics).

...

That's probably one of the main reasons that dictated this whole change. I suspect what many people don't realize is the logical consequence of that (plus extra portability). They will be quite shocked. That's when we'll find out if Sega Sammy / SI did their homework with regards to how much they will lose, versus how much they will gain.

[DS7]

With some major features being removed like international football, will FM25 still be compatible with FM24 saves? I have a online save with a friend that i want to play in FM25. Can i be confident that i will be able to pass a online FM24 save to fm25?

[bella699]

I think we have to be concerned. I have played CM/FM from the start in 1992. The history tells me to be concerned. CM4, new 2D engine, and CM4 was delayed from november 2002 to 28th of march 2003. The game was a awful to play the first 3 months. FM2009 first time with the 3D engine. The game was awful with bugs and crashes the first 2-3 months. FM25, the new engine has been announced since the announcement of FM2024. Until now, we have only got 3 screenshots of a deeply simplyfied gameplay, and to be fair, it looks like SI wants FM25 to be a console game rather than a PC game. More features has been removed, and we haven´t seen anything to the new Unity engine yet. I hope the best for the future, but I am concerned. Specially for the PC players.   

Edited September 7 by bella699

[bella699]

7 minutes ago, DS7 said:

With some major features being removed like international football, will FM25 still be compatible with FM24 saves? I have a online save with a friend that i want to play in FM25. Can i be confident that i will be able to pass a online FM24 save to fm25?

Online games will not be a part of the game from the start.

[DS7]

28 minutos atrás, bella699 disse:

Online games will not be a part of the game from the start.

I'm not sure i'm following, can you explain? 

[bella699]

40 minutes ago, DS7 said:

I'm not sure i'm following, can you explain? 

Miles has announced in the announcement of 25/6, that the online part of the game, will be removed.

[DS7]

8 minutos atrás, bella699 disse:

Miles has announced in the announcement of 25/6, that the online part of the game, will be removed.

loool see you guys in 2026 then.

[santy001]

There hasn't been any announcement network games will be removed. There are other forms of playing against others online which have been impacted though.

[Boycott]

Look I'm just going to hold on to this view that the team at SI has something up their sleeve to show in the coming weeks. Call it naive or blind faith or whatever you want. I don't believe a company that just had probably its biggest showcase event in the history of the franchise would intentionally choose a few days later to put dampers into the community. Especially as the days of FM being a bit of a niche game for football nerds is long gone anyway. They have one of the largest game userbase on the steam platform, their game is heard of by people who are just generally football fans in the same way you didn't have to play FIFA to know that was a gaming franchise, and Miles set up the expectation that FM25 would be a new era of the franchise when we were still in the cycle of FM23. If it turns out FM25 is extremely undercooked that would arguably put his job on the chopping board as far as the player base goes since he printed his name to the promise that lowering your expectations for FM24 would be a short term necessity for the start of something new in FM25 with the Unity engine.

If it turns out I am wrong then I don't believe someone that experienced as him would try to run down the clock on putting a half baked game without being up front that the switchover was a lot harder than anticipated. And putting it out at full price too. I don't believe SI for all its overpromises over the years, and there have been many, are in the same boat as a company like EA in doing that to its customer base.

Edited September 8 by Boycott

[whatsupdoc]

11 hours ago, trevjim said:

Absolutely. The sheer data dump can be overwhelming and off-putting. Most of it is largely pointless too.

 

Personally, I love the raw data. I use it to understand what each position in my system is doing over the course of a season and base my transfers on the output. For example:

In my current 3-5-2, I can see that the players with the highest number of passes per game are my defenders. This has cemented the idea that I need defenders with good technical skills.

 

Likewise, I can see that the players with the most attempted headers per game are my strikers, which surprised me as I'm playing short. But again it's helped inform what I need up front:

 

The issue isn't with the raw data, it's with the AI advice which as you say is not particularly good.

[vonreichsm]

I think for me i will not buy the FM25 without coaching the national team. And i don´t know why the weight of players is out. That´s terrible i think. And that only because of women football? I have every FM since FM 2011. That´s what i say to what miles says. Not good information:(.

[srvngrc]

2 saat önce, vonreichsm said:

I think for me i will not buy the FM25 without coaching the national team. And i don´t know why the weight of players is out. That´s terrible i think. And that only because of women football? I have every FM since FM 2011. That´s what i say to what miles says. Not good information:(.

It's been like this for years. If they cannot solve a problem or fail to improve a thing, they remove it completely instead of working harder.

Who knows, maybe they will remove transfers next year because it does not work properly

Edited September 8 by srvngrc

[Marino Stuparich]

18 minuti fa, srvngrc ha scritto:

It's been like this for years. If they cannot solve a problem or fail to improve a thing, they remove it completely instead of working harder.

Who knows, maybe they will remove transfers next year because it does not work properly

 

[Polando]

I've been playing this game since FM 2009, and I've never read about any features being removed during the announcement of the upcoming edition, let alone two so crucial to the entire game. Players' expectations are being diminished more and more with each passing year. It's sad to see.

[vikeologist]

1 minute ago, Polando said:

I've been playing this game since FM 2009, and I've never read about any features being removed during the announcement of the upcoming edition, let alone two so crucial to the entire game. Players' expectations are being diminished more and more with each passing year. It's sad to see.

Just off the top of my head, I thought there'd been multiple features removed for upcoming editions; FM Classic, Draft. they were all features I didn't use on versions i don't use, but I have vague memories of someone being upset at losing something every year,

I'm not being an SI shill. I actually agree with the expectations being diminished part, but being realistic, every year there's both good things and disappointments, and often the good things are an absence of bad things like bugs (but still important).

It's not easy to sustain any level of success or dominance over a long period of time. I'm sure at some point SI will completely screw the pooch. Maybe that's FM25, or maybe it buys them another 10 years.

[Lexis]

26 minutes ago, vikeologist said:

Just off the top of my head, I thought there'd been multiple features removed for upcoming editions; FM Classic, Draft. they were all features I didn't use on versions i don't use, but I have vague memories of someone being upset at losing something every year,

I'm not being an SI shill. I actually agree with the expectations being diminished part, but being realistic, every year there's both good things and disappointments, and often the good things are an absence of bad things like bugs (but still important).

It's not easy to sustain any level of success or dominance over a long period of time. I'm sure at some point SI will completely screw the pooch. Maybe that's FM25, or maybe it buys them another 10 years.

Dominance over what? There hasn't been any competitor in ages. Which might stand as a testament to what they've built, depending on how you want to see it.

What I don't understand is why didn't they just leave it in exactly like it was? Better than not having it at all and would've been fine to wait for 26 to have it revamped. Was even the effort of porting it as-is too much? If that's the case then it goes again to resource allocation and why are they spending resources on other things that are far far less consumed, such as .... I don't want to name it.

[pelle_ii]

10 hours ago, bella699 said:

Miles has announced in the announcement of 25/6, that the online part of the game, will be removed.

Can you point to where he said that?

Because I can not find it. Only about Versus Mode, Challenge Mode and Fantasy Draft.

 

But will be highly dissapointed if there is no normal Online Mode.

[jmlima]

9 hours ago, Boycott said:

Look I'm just going to hold on to this view that the team at SI has something up their sleeve to show in the coming weeks. Call it naive or blind faith or whatever you want. I don't believe a company that just had probably its biggest showcase event in the history of the franchise would intentionally choose a few days later to put dampers into the community. ...

The history of the IT industry (both hardware and software) is full of great companies that one day had a 'great idea' that turned out to be their last. Never underestimate that.

[bella699]

24 minutes ago, pelle_ii said:

Can you point to where he said that?

Because I can not find it. Only about Versus Mode, Challenge Mode and Fantasy Draft.

 

But will be highly dissapointed if there is no normal Online Mode.

Sorry. You are right. I saw it in a comment on another site. Not official site, so by bad.....

[jmlima]

On 07/09/2024 at 04:51, kiwityke1983 said:

The thing is there have been two different justifications so far.

5% of players for some game modes.

5% of SAVES for international management.

Which would suggest the number of players using international management is much higher than 5%!

Personally I've never used 2D since they introduced 3D so it wouldn't bother me if they cut it but I know a lot of people love it.

I'll be happy with even a moderate graphical improvement and players having actual physical form so collisions between players happen, that would be the number 1 immersion increaser for me in the ME.

So, this got me curious. Where in the game does it say that this type of data is shared with SI? I can only see the opt-in for targetted ads and marketing campaigns.

The only bit where something remotely related to this is mentioned is in the Gamesight privacy policies:

Quote

'The data stored by the API includes information such as hashed IP address, API version, anonymized User ID, timestamp, Developer API Key, OS version, screen resolution, timezone, system language, and in-game events. Player’s data collected by the Gamesight platform is presented to our Customers to analyze the performance of their marketing and the performance of their game.'

Which (for those interested) you can op-out of (well, if you believe these opt outs...).

In short, where is it stated what type of data SI is retrieving from usage, system, etc?  What is SI tracking and extracting, how, what is being done with it, where is the op[t-out for it, etc? Does anyone know?

[kiwityke1983]

1 minute ago, jmlima said:

So, this got me curious. Where in the game does it say that this type of data is shared with SI? I can only see the opt-in for targetted ads and marketing campaigns.

The only bit where something remotely related to this is mentioned is in the Gamesight privacy policies:

Which (for those interested) you can op-out of (well, if you believe these opt outs...).

In short, where is it stated what type of data SI is retrieving from usage, system, etc?  What is SI tracking and extracting, how, what is being done with it, where is the op[t-out for it, etc? Does anyone know?

No idea bro!

You'd have to ask someone at SI, I'm just a dude on the forums with no particular special behind the scenes insights.

Might be buried in the EULA?

[jmlima]

8 minutes ago, kiwityke1983 said:

No idea bro!

You'd have to ask someone at SI, I'm just a dude on the forums with no particular special behind the scenes insights.

Might be buried in the EULA?

For those even remotely interested, there is indeed a section for it in the EULA ( https://store.steampowered.com/eula/2252570_eula_1 ), but related to closed beta testers only:

Quote

(d) The Software may contain functions for collecting and tracking information related to Testers' use of the Software. You acknowledge that SEGA does and may collect data derived from Your playing of the Game and Software and SEGA reserves the right to compile, save, use and analyse such information. The collection and storage or the above data and game play is solely for the purposes of facilitating the existing functionality of the Game, assisting SEGA in assessing improvements to it and other games based on general playing patterns and for digital management purposes;

The other section related to the data Sega collects points to a dead website: http://athttps//privacy.sega.com/en/sega-europe-limited-privacy-policy

Presumably the link in the EULA is incorrect and should actually point to this: https://privacy.sega.com/en/sega-europe-limited-privacy-policy

Even if pretty opaque as usual for corporations EULAs, it does have a section relating to 'data' (no detail) that is collected:

 

Quote

 

(G) INFORMATION ABOUT YOUR USE OF OUR PRODUCTS:

(i) to track the performance of our Products; 
(ii) to communicate with our platform operators and partners; and
(iii) to improve our advertising and targeting systems.

 

[Woodmansee]

When can we see the game engine in action to see if all this is worth it?

[jmlima]

3 minutes ago, Woodmansee said:

When can we see the game engine in action to see if all this is worth it?

If it was ready for prime time they wouldn't be delaying the release... I mean, some people will still say this is all a very clever 5d chess marketing ruse but...

[renaldasuk]

they say only 5% play international management mode.

 

I checked FM 23 achievements, 7.5% won the world cup, let's say half of those who played it, won. that's already 15% of all FM23 players, who played in the world cup. what if we add smaller nations, that do not qualify for the world cup?

how do you get 5% SI?

 

1. no one will pay international management from the start, because it is so bad and has been neglected for years with 0 development

2. since most players start with club management first, it is only those who play  long term saves, can engage with international management and only minority of FM players are playing long enough to be offered an international job

 

it is easy to manipulate statistics, to support your point, rather than admit that you have no talent and skill to make international football work within your new or most likely updated code

 

 

[Spedding]

3 hours ago, pelle_ii said:

Can you point to where he said that?

Because I can not find it. Only about Versus Mode, Challenge Mode and Fantasy Draft.

 

But will be highly dissapointed if there is no normal Online Mode.

there hasnt been any mention that normal online is cut.

[trevjim]

FM desperately needs a competitor. It seems to be going the same way as FIFA.

 

PES and FIFA used to push each other so much. Until Fifa introduced Ultimate team and the money dried up for PES (Despite being the far better game in terms of gameplay for the last 20 years)

Now Fifa is a shallow cash cow with awful gameplay and PES is a free to play mobile game dressed up as a PC one.

FM with no true competitor has become stale and focusing on the wrong things and able to become average and yet still sell.

A new competitor or a fresh change of direction in the SI leadership would be welcome 

[Dbuk1]

50 minutes ago, renaldasuk said:

they say only 5% play international management mode.

 

I checked FM 23 achievements, 7.5% won the world cup, let's say half of those who played it, won. that's already 15% of all FM23 players, who played in the world cup. what if we add smaller nations, that do not qualify for the world cup?

how do you get 5% SI?

 

1. no one will pay international management from the start, because it is so bad and has been neglected for years with 0 development

2. since most players start with club management first, it is only those who play  long term saves, can engage with international management and only minority of FM players are playing long enough to be offered an international job

 

it is easy to manipulate statistics, to support your point, rather than admit that you have no talent and skill to make international football work within your new or most likely updated code

 

 

This going to make crazy sheep mad Monday morning

[jmlima]

9 minutes ago, Dbuk1 said:

This going to make crazy sheep mad Monday morning

4.3% for FM24 so, roughly 86% of players from the 5% given win the world cup.

But... 7.1% win an international tournament...

[Daniel Evensen]

On 07/09/2024 at 00:01, Hzano123 said:

Like bruh the reason the mode not being played is because the mode not being improved much, even when we are in big event of the year which is the world cup.

We've been telling SI that for years.

Seriously - you can find posts on this very forum going back over 10 years that complain about international play.  There have been dozens of suggestions over time.

It is insane that SI doesn't create a special version for the game for each Euro or World Cup competition, given how popular those are.  They are leaving a lot of money on the table by constantly choosing to do nothing with international play.

I think this will eventually be fixed, but apparently it requires dragging Miles kicking and screaming into reality.