FM 25 DEVELOPMENT UPDATE

[Novem9]

20 минут назад, jmlima сказал:

Edit - To say, of course, heavily dependent on much you keep updating graphics, sounds and back of the house stuff.

 

Large number of fixes and corrections

20 минут назад, jmlima сказал:

Unity is the king of big patches

Your holy war looks comical

[jmlima]

21 minutes ago, Novem9 said:

...

Your holy war looks comical

Na.. Actually quite a fan. But no blinkers hence can see the good and the bad.

Edited September 13 by jmlima

[HighFlyingDwarf]

Women's football should be in the game.

International football should be in the game.

Player weights should be in the game.

None of these items are exclusive to each other. We shouldn't have to pick and choose. This ultimately comes down to poor management and decision making which has been pervasive for years in terms of certain editions of the game and is now clearly evident with such a massive migration and change.

Other things I want to highlight:

1. SI's business surely has as much to do now with data and analytics for real world teams as it is about the game. Arguably the game is less important than dealing with clubs directly for data. This has been on my mind for some time and I think is a contributing factor to the feature removal.

2. I've never seen any video game company use analytics and numbers as much as a determining factor as SI has and yet be so inconsistent with the numbers that they tout. For example, it's all well and good to say 5% of people play International Management, but this is a feature which has had no changes for ages and is the pinnacle of a players career rather than the aim in most cases.

It's impossible to know how many people will engage with women's football in the game, but I can tell you without any hesitation that it will never be removed from the game after it's implemented. Both on societal grounds and the example I highlighted in point 1. SI wants to be a big player in providing data to the pro game, and women's football is a massive opportunity for that as a growing industry.

I'm assuming in terms of the above two features that the calculated judgement is that x will draw more than y in terms of usage, but how would you know? There were numbers being floated a few years ago that as few as 5% of people were playing womens international football in FIFA? Again, for the reasons I highlight above, there are financial and societal implications that would prohibit them from deciding to call time on developing women's football in the game if they wanted to do so further down the line.

Additionally, 100% of people would have seen weights in the game, and yet nobody seems to point that out and the justification (being made by players, because SI's reasoning is a single ridiculous line) is that it's an irrelevant number and not relevant to the match engine. This is arguably the most egregious removal since nearly every sports game on the market has weight as a relevant factor or visible statistic and if it's indeed not relevant then instead the question should be why not?

The fact that this is still being modelled on the backend reeks of dishonesty to me over the actual cause of it. If it's because you're concerned about people getting needled on social media about their weight, then say that.

Human beings aren't perfect, it's immersive for people to gain weight if they have a low natural fitness or are low in morale, or other relevant things which are happening. My understanding is that FM is a football management simulation. Removing information that would be relevant to a football manager is against the ethos of the game.

[wazzaflow10]

3 hours ago, Novem9 said:

Once upon a time I dreamed of the possibility of creating not a manager, but a player. And to be able to announce the end of my career at any time to become a manager. In this way, my character would have a background, and the game world itself would be something new. 

But FM still has a long way to go for this to make real sense.

It'd have been a fun experiment to get something like new star soccer (when it was on PC) and FM together as a continuous game world. Just export the NSS save into FM and go after you've retired.

That or the game randomly chooses a recently retired player for you and you take over their management career so you don't just seemingly appear out of nowhere.

I think the create someone new approach is fine but it'd be an interesting twist to basically just become an existing player/coach. One of the "issues" I've had is if you go for a top job immediately there's often a very good manager just sitting there after you've taken their job. Why not just become Pep or Klopp or Ancelotti?

[CaptainSa]

13 minutes ago, HighFlyingDwarf said:

Player weights should be in the game.

 

There's no point to player weights being in the game because for the 52% of players that have weights, there's no way of knowing whether they're accurate or not. And for 48% of players in the database, they don't have a weight. In the database, players like Anthony Gordon and Noni Madueke have a weight of 0 and so the game makes one up for them. And given that weight has either, depending on who you ask, no effect at all on the game or a very small effect on whether a player has a certain attribute score, what's the point of having it over something like body type?

Edited September 13 by CaptainSa

[HighFlyingDwarf]

Just now, CaptainSa said:

There's no point to player weights being in the game because for the 52% of players that have weights, there's no way of knowing whether they're accurate or not. And for 48% of players in the database, they don't have a weight. In the database, players like Anthony Gordon and Noni Madueke have a weight of 0 and so the game makes one up for them. And given that weight has either, depending on who you ask, no effect at all on the game or a very small effect on whether a player has a certain attribute score, what's the point of having it?

On this basis, transfer values for real world players should be removed.

[XaW]

1 minute ago, HighFlyingDwarf said:

On this basis, transfer values for real world players should be removed.

This is a very poor comparison considering weight is far from as useful as a transfer value. And also a bad one since transfer value is a value estimated by your staff and not a fixed variable.

[Novem9]

16 минут назад, wazzaflow10 сказал:

Why not just become Pep or Klopp or Ancelotti?

It's probably a licensing issue or using real public figures without their consent (something like that, legal stuff).

For me it was also an immersion issue. But either I'm getting old or FM has taught me to be detached from this game. It used to bother me when a person out of nowhere would take a warm place in a club. But there are too many little nuances in the game that kill immersion, so this is far from the biggest issue of all.

[HighFlyingDwarf]

3 minutes ago, XaW said:

This is a very poor comparison considering weight is far from as useful as a transfer value. And also a bad one since transfer value is a value estimated by your staff and not a fixed variable.

It's not a comparison. I'm saying that it should be removed on the basis of the specification of the prior comment, not that I think it should be.

[CaptainSa]

21 minutes ago, HighFlyingDwarf said:

On this basis, transfer values for real world players should be removed.

Transfer values are a subjective calculation that a scout or an agent or a whoever comes up with. Weight isn't a subjective measure in the game, it's just a useless and inaccurate one, because half of players in the database have a randomly generated one and the other half have some figure taken from... where exactly? Just three Premier League teams list their players weights on their websites. Many other websites out there post differing figures for the weight of the same player. It's just a bad stat with unreliable data.

[spursfan]

36 minutes ago, HighFlyingDwarf said:

Additionally, 100% of people would have seen weights in the game, and yet nobody seems to point that out and the justification (being made by players, because SI's reasoning is a single ridiculous line) is that it's an irrelevant number and not relevant to the match engine.

This describes weight as used in FM, *factually*.
Transfer values are definitely relevant to the game of FM, though obviously not to the match engine.

[XaW]

8 minutes ago, HighFlyingDwarf said:

It's not a comparison. I'm saying that it should be removed on the basis of the specification of the prior comment, not that I think it should be.

But you are comparing them, you are saying if X is removed then Y should too. My issue is not if it was correct or not to remove weight, I'm saying your analogy is not a good one.

Transfer value is a good informational field to many, but I personally don't look at it at all. It shows many people who are not deeply familiar with the an approximate value for a player, so what they should expect to pay or be paid for the player, but there are conditions that could make it higher or lower.

Weight has none to an almost negligible impact on anything in the game, other than showing it for immersion. Especially seeing as about half the FM24 database doesn't even have a value there. As well as according to the researchers, it's almost impossible to find a good source for it anymore. So they add body type instead and let the game guess.

The comparison of, "If X is removed then Y should too" fails here, where one is a helpful metric for many users, while the other has just about no impact at all. Showing the weight or not is not something I'm bothered about it any way shape or form, but if you want to compare it to something, then I'd say something like hair colour is a much more comparable metric, which incidentally is not shown on the player profile as far as I know.

[wazzaflow10]

12 minutes ago, Novem9 said:

It's probably a licensing issue or using real public figures without their consent (something like that, legal stuff).

For me it was also an immersion issue. But either I'm getting old or FM has taught me to be detached from this game. It used to bother me when a person out of nowhere would take a warm place in a club. But there are too many little nuances in the game that kill immersion, so this is far from the biggest issue of all.

Yeah its probably a legal/licensing issue. But that said there's nothing stopping a fired AI Pep from taking another job so who knows.

And yeah there's definitely little immersion pieces that are missing depending on how you play. Scouting was a big one for me in 24.

[JonasWS]

5 hours ago, H_a_a_k_o_n said:

Nah, you will buy it. Just like me. Not overwhelmed by news, but as soon as december kicks in your are dragged in . We have all been here before. Negativity (Wibble/wobble, 2D/3D, new GUI). I am certain it will still be a great game.

no, I've never been there before, all the things you mention have not interested me, I've just been excited about them. In this case it is different, a feature is not added or a feature improved, you choose to remove a feature, and have spent large amounts of time on a new feature for which there has been no demand and which probably will not come to be used extensively. And no, I'm not going to buy it. I will probably buy FM26, unless the next step of development turns out to be to introduce futsal to include the minor sports, or other features no one will use, but which puts the company in a good light in the media image at the expense of the fans who puts money into the company.

[scythian12]

1 hour ago, HighFlyingDwarf said:

Women's football should be in the game.

International football should be in the game.

Player weights should be in the game.

None of these items are exclusive to each other. We shouldn't have to pick and choose. This ultimately comes down to poor management and decision making which has been pervasive for years in terms of certain editions of the game and is now clearly evident with such a massive migration and change.

Other things I want to highlight:

1. SI's business surely has as much to do now with data and analytics for real world teams as it is about the game. Arguably the game is less important than dealing with clubs directly for data. This has been on my mind for some time and I think is a contributing factor to the feature removal.

2. I've never seen any video game company use analytics and numbers as much as a determining factor as SI has and yet be so inconsistent with the numbers that they tout. For example, it's all well and good to say 5% of people play International Management, but this is a feature which has had no changes for ages and is the pinnacle of a players career rather than the aim in most cases.

It's impossible to know how many people will engage with women's football in the game, but I can tell you without any hesitation that it will never be removed from the game after it's implemented. Both on societal grounds and the example I highlighted in point 1. SI wants to be a big player in providing data to the pro game, and women's football is a massive opportunity for that as a growing industry.

I'm assuming in terms of the above two features that the calculated judgement is that x will draw more than y in terms of usage, but how would you know? There were numbers being floated a few years ago that as few as 5% of people were playing womens international football in FIFA? Again, for the reasons I highlight above, there are financial and societal implications that would prohibit them from deciding to call time on developing women's football in the game if they wanted to do so further down the line.

Additionally, 100% of people would have seen weights in the game, and yet nobody seems to point that out and the justification (being made by players, because SI's reasoning is a single ridiculous line) is that it's an irrelevant number and not relevant to the match engine. This is arguably the most egregious removal since nearly every sports game on the market has weight as a relevant factor or visible statistic and if it's indeed not relevant then instead the question should be why not?

The fact that this is still being modelled on the backend reeks of dishonesty to me over the actual cause of it. If it's because you're concerned about people getting needled on social media about their weight, then say that.

Human beings aren't perfect, it's immersive for people to gain weight if they have a low natural fitness or are low in morale, or other relevant things which are happening. My understanding is that FM is a football management simulation. Removing information that would be relevant to a football manager is against the ethos of the game.

Well, judging by my precision as a researcher when evaluating players, I would not use the FM database for any real life scouting purpose if I was a professional club. I highly doubt any do.

[kiwityke1983]

54 minutes ago, CaptainSa said:

Just three Premier League teams list their players weights on their websites. 

I'd put money on those weights also not being accurate.

My Dad played professionally the club added 2 stone to his weight and 3 inches to his height.

I played semi-pro my profile was a stone heavier and 2 inches taller.

[jayedson]

1 hour ago, kiwityke1983 said:

I'd put money on those weights also not being accurate.

My Dad played professionally the club added 2 stone to his weight and 3 inches to his height.

I played semi-pro my profile was a stone heavier and 2 inches taller.

I've also been guilty in the past of saying I was a couple of inches bigger than I was...  

[jayedson]

3 hours ago, HighFlyingDwarf said:

Player weights should be in the game.

They could have not shown women's weight like a lot of media outlets do but why not just keep men's weight in there (like a lot of media outlets do)? 

https://brownpoliticalreview.org/2018/11/athletic-rosters-college-womens-body-image-epidemic/

https://fitisafeministissue.com/2014/02/21/whats-the-difference-why-dont-we-share-the-weights-of-female-athletes/

I was waiting for a new interaction where you could criticise a player for their weight gain, fall out with them, and be forced to apologise to try to remedy the situation (a la Guardiola and Kalvin Philips).

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/68341149#:~:text=Manchester City boss Pep Guardiola,fourth-round tie against Liverpool.

[autohoratio]

15 minutes ago, jayedson said:

They could have not shown women's weight like a lot of media outlets do but why not just keep men's weight in there (like a lot of media outlets do)? 

Some others have said it above already, but clubs don't tend to publish accurate figures for players' weights anymore, if they even do at all. So for the vast majority of the time it would either be outdated, inaccurate, or just total guesswork based on their height and buld anyway.

[jmlima]

18 minutes ago, autohoratio said:

Some others have said it above already, but clubs don't tend to publish accurate figures for players' weights anymore, if they even do at all. So for the vast majority of the time it would either be outdated, inaccurate, or just total guesswork based on their height and buld anyway.

Guys, the reason is stated in the blog clearly:

Quote

Through the creation of our Women's Football database, we discovered that while the weight of male athletes can change a bit month to month, women’s body types are very different from men’s and their weight fluctuates a lot more, often weekly. 

It's not related to some kind of conspiracy, nor unavailable data. In fact their statement seems to imply they have the data.

(how nobody in their development team seemed to know this very basic anatomical fact is another story)

[autohoratio]

Just now, jmlima said:

In fact their statement seems to imply they have the data.

Maybe some clubs will provide data to SI directly (whether they do or not I have no idea but they do consult to some extent with real life teams to improve the game), but in this very thread there have been a few researchers saying (or implying) that they don't have the data.

e.g. this post from santy001 who is the researcher for Stoke City

On 04/09/2024 at 20:06, santy001 said:

Do you think every year for FM with a new batch of youngsters coming through at Stoke I get down to Claytonwood with a set of scales and being like "look lads, I need you to get on the scales as the accuracy of the weight in your profile for FMXX depends on this"?

Take out the fact the police would probably want a word if I was approaching 16 year old lads as a full grown man, we have a weight option in the researcher tools, and we have a weight description option. I've been way more likely to use the weight description option for the majority of the time I've been doing this because Stoke don't put out information about player weights reliably. 

This is about the limit of useful information Stoke produces on its own players for browsing through for example:

[jmlima]

3 minutes ago, autohoratio said:

Maybe some clubs will provide data to SI directly (whether they do or not I have no idea but they do consult to some extent with real life teams to improve the game), but in this very thread there have been a few researchers saying (or implying) that they don't have the data.

e.g. this post from santy001 who is the researcher for Stoke City

Oh, that's agreed. Someone actually points out the percentage and it's nearly 50% of the database without weight but, my point was that's not the reason given by them to remove it (it prob should have been ages ago but that's another discussion...). In the update they never mention 'lack of data' which, albeit by omission, seems to imply they had data (not all certainly, but let's assume 50% same as with the male database).

[wazzaflow10]

2 hours ago, kiwityke1983 said:

My Dad played professionally the club added 2 stone to his weight and 3 inches to his height.

I played semi-pro my profile was a stone heavier and 2 inches taller.

Almost all american sports are guilty of this. Just pure obsession with being the right "size" to fill the role they want you play.

Jordan Mailata was 6'7 146kg / 320 lbs in 2017 when he started his NFL Pathways journey from rugby and now he's listed at 6'8 165 kg / 366 lbs as an NFL lineman. I'm sure some of that is natural growth but gaining nearly 45 lbs is hard to do. Tbh I'm not sure why they didn't mold him to be a bigger version Jonah Lomu.

[Fat_Frank8]

2 hours ago, jmlima said:

Guys, the reason is stated in the blog clearly:

It's not related to some kind of conspiracy, nor unavailable data. In fact their statement seems to imply they have the data.

(how nobody in their development team seemed to know this very basic anatomical fact is another story)

I call complete bollocks on that explanation to why weight is being removed. Wasn’t it stated in this thread that weight did have little or no impact on the match engine? And then a fluctuation of a couple kg is so important that if not implemented it’s better to remove weight altogether? Absolutely no chance. 

[themadsheep2001]

The whole argument about weight just feels so pointless overall. Half the weights in the game are randomly generated, the other half aren't even that accurate. Weight has no gameplay impact either. Pointless of SI to remove it and pointless for people to complain its gone. 

[Federico]

I have to be honest and don't judge me a bad FM player: if they removed weight without any notification, I'm pretty sure I would have never noticed it.

[Lord Rowell]

2 hours ago, themadsheep2001 said:

The whole argument about weight just feels so pointless overall. Half the weights in the game are randomly generated, the other half aren't even that accurate. Weight has no gameplay impact either. Pointless of SI to remove it and pointless for people to complain its gone. 

I think people had a right to point it out. Its not pointless, I disagree.

FWIW if you've all seen my posts, I'm very comfortable with removing "weight" and I've made specific cases on this - see my posts/
The recent posts (which SI did not do) that 1/2 weights have been randomly generated, is genuinely informative - thank you for those individuals who added this knowledge . It was someone in this thread or another who added this info. It WAS not SI.

If SI had put this info, the context could have been different. Alas, more bad communication from Miles Jacobsen.

I don't like the use of the word "pointless". Its not for one or other to dismiss others issues in that way. Address issues with good arguments and language.

But just saying "pointless" is dismissive and unpleasant.

[themadsheep2001]

24 minutes ago, Lord Rowell said:

I think people had a right to point it out. Its not pointless, I disagree.

FWIW if you've all seen my posts, I'm very comfortable with removing "weight" and I've made specific cases on this - see my posts/
The recent posts (which SI did not do) that 1/2 weights have been randomly generated, is genuinely informative - thank you for those individuals who added this knowledge . It was someone in this thread or another who added this info. It WAS not SI.

If SI had put this info, the context could have been different. Alas, more bad communication from Miles Jacobsen.

I don't like the use of the word "pointless". Its not for one or other to dismiss others issues in that way. Address issues with good arguments and language.

But just saying "pointless" is dismissive and unpleasant.

You're entitled to disagree and i didnt say people didnt have a right, I just think the entire argument, irrespective of view, is pointless, thats my stance on the matter - So much energy expended on something with so little impact (literally none in gameplay terms), particularly in the context of other things that have been removed. I'm not going to argue the issue because i think its a complete non-issue. If SI want to make a thing of it, and people think its a big deal and want to argue it back and forth thats their view and perogative, we've all got opinions and my opinion is a collective shrug that something so small has become a lightning rod until the next batch of news comes out. 

[wazzaflow10]

14 minutes ago, themadsheep2001 said:

my opinion is a collective shrug that something so small has become a lightning rod until the next batch of news comes out. 

Well small in terms of the game. Not small in terms of the perceived politics behind the reason which is why its attracted the crowd is has.

Really I think they could have just done with specific weights will be removed because many are inaccurate and half are made up rather than go on about weight fluctuation. In its place they could have put the body type the researchers use. Lean, normal, muscular probably would have even been sufficient if they don't want to be too specific.

 

[spursfan]

1 hour ago, wazzaflow10 said:

Well small in terms of the game. Not small in terms of the perceived politics behind the reason which is why its attracted the crowd is has.

It's a development (technical) thread, would have been great to have it remain so (what x means to the game of FM).

If the consensus is that discussions about weight/height/etc are essentially political (what x means to humans), would it be better to have it discussed separately? 

[wazzaflow10]

54 minutes ago, spursfan said:

If the consensus is that discussions about weight/height/etc are essentially political (what x means to humans), would it be better to have it discussed separately? 

If you're referring to the forums then no. Generally the mods try to keep everything somewhat centrally located unless it's completely off topic i.e. discussing another game as seen earlier.

If you're referring to the actual update the very next sentence I suggested they could have just said most of the data we have in the game is inaccurate. The moment they tied it (whether intentional or not) with women's weight fluctuating it opened the door for people. We've all seen people are already on edge about this game because of women's football being included. This just gave them another reason to hate on it.

[jmlima]

9 hours ago, themadsheep2001 said:

The whole argument about weight just feels so pointless overall. Half the weights in the game are randomly generated, the other half aren't even that accurate. Weight has no gameplay impact either. Pointless of SI to remove it and pointless for people to complain its gone. 

The argument is pointless but, it made me wonder yet again just how much fake depth really is in the game. How many more things we see and do in the game are meaningless and serve little to no purpose under the hood.

[trevjim]

9 hours ago, themadsheep2001 said:

The whole argument about weight just feels so pointless overall. Half the weights in the game are randomly generated, the other half aren't even that accurate. Weight has no gameplay impact either. Pointless of SI to remove it and pointless for people to complain its gone. 

Agreed. Especially when all SI needed to do was remove it from the women's version of that's the area they were worried about 

[trevjim]

5 minutes ago, jmlima said:

The argument is pointless but, it made me wonder yet again just how much fake depth really is in the game. How many more things we see and do in the game are meaningless and serve little to no purpose under the hood.

Someone on here said 95% of the game is transfers and tactics. 

 

The other 5% is designed to look like you are impacting the world when in reality it does very little.

That's why there is a big push from users for a more streamlined and bloat free version.

 

All the tedious and broken additions are just a chore and have such little impact on the game.

It's reminding me of the F1 manager series. There looks to be a lot of player control when in reality it's just having the best car (tactics) and driver (players)

 

And that's ok, but embrace it. It's what made CM so good. It's what made FM pre 2012 the glory days.

The QOL additions since 2012 have been perfect.

The "features" since 2012 have been negative additions 

 

 

[kiwityke1983]

10 minutes ago, jmlima said:

The argument is pointless but, it made me wonder yet again just how much fake depth really is in the game. How many more things we see and do in the game are meaningless and serve little to no purpose under the hood.

The board and fans club culture is definitely one.

You can just ignore it play exactly how you want and if you are even vaguely successful they'll just change the entire club culture to how you were playing, irrespective of the original culture.

[spursfan]

37 minutes ago, trevjim said:

Agreed. Especially when all SI needed to do was remove it from the women's version of that's the area they were worried about 

It's not that, otherwise they would have done so.

Taking the principles which Miles has always mentioned:- 
 

• Would we do it in the same way if we had our time again?
• Would we have done this at all?
• Do we have the time required to do this to the highest possible standard, in our first cycle of a new era

Weight probably doesn't meet any of the 3 criteria.
Shouts and International Management aren't meeting the third criteria, so we'll have to wait unfortunately
After the FifaE collaboration, it's good to review VS and Drafts from scratch

With Unity as the context, leagues including Women's are on track, so it's a go for that.

[spursfan]

35 minutes ago, kiwityke1983 said:

The board and fans club culture is definitely one.

You can just ignore it play exactly how you want and if you are even vaguely successful they'll just change the entire club culture to how you were playing, irrespective of the original culture.

I haven't been successful enough to challenge the culture in significant ways, so for those saves I find being unsackable helps lol.

But it's also true that results do matter (as they do irl)

As for players and tactics, I don't really go galacticos or 'meta -- but I do find Training quite useful if one makes a little extra effort to actually use the feature ;-)

[kiwityke1983]

57 minutes ago, spursfan said:

I haven't been successful enough to challenge the culture in significant ways.

Very spursy.

I was actually looking forward to this feature and being forced to change my approach.

But in reality I find it's more an illusion of depth rather than meaningful depth.

[trevjim]

1 hour ago, kiwityke1983 said:

Very spursy.

I was actually looking forward to this feature and being forced to change my approach.

But in reality I find it's more an illusion of depth rather than meaningful depth.

I suppose it's fairly realistic in in the sense that results trump everything.

Win everything? Who cares if you play boring football.

 

Sportswashing: City and Newcastle 

Cheating: City

 

As long as the results are good then fans are quick to forget everything else

[spursfan]

1 hour ago, kiwityke1983 said:

Very spursy.

I was actually looking forward to this feature and being forced to change my approach.

But in reality I find it's more an illusion of depth rather than meaningful depth.

I remember in earlier versions if we 'disagree' sufficiently with the board it leads to a (usually) quick dismissal.

[kandersson]

Everybody plays the game differently. As I said in a previous post, international football is a big part of most of my saves, be it a club and country challenge (San Marino double, Canada/Toronto FC, New Zealand/Wellington), a build a nation save or just a side job in a one-club save. Personally I don't have much interest in a long term save without international football.

As for weight, it might be 'pointless' for most people and I do find it a smaller issue than removing international management. Though for me it's one of the many things thad can add character to players and make the game more immersive. It's not necessarily about current real players btw: saves tend to become more interesting for me when the game is mostly populated by newgens, and I don't have a real life reference for their weight.

Also, if FM aims to be more and more realistic I would say that players' weight is quite relevant irl since clubs and managers often punish or fine overweight players and in fact FM already gives the option to warn and fine players who skip training. Personally for the sake of realism I would prefer that FM went in this direction, rather than removing weight.

Edited Saturday at 13:08 by kandersson

[EvilWolf1980]

I have owned very FM manager since 2005 but I wont be buying FM25.

Every feature I have loved has now gone but I bet the price stays the same.

1 create a club, I love creating my own club in the lowest leagues and then working to win the champions League.

2, Touchline Shouts. Whenever I was drawing and needing a goal I used to use my touchline shouts and more often than not it helped us get the winning goal.

3. and now they have removed international football management. I used to role play as an international player who had just retired took over a club that had gone becoming defunct like Bury. I would rebrand the team revive them and take them to champions league winners and eventually earning my spot as England manager and then going onto the world cup. 

With so many features I love being removed I am willing to bet the price stays the same so were paying more and getting less. I have never not got a football manager game but it seems to me FM25 being stripped to the bare bones is not worth getting I will be back for FM26. 

[parsdaft1982]

48 minutes ago, EvilWolf1980 said:

I have owned very FM manager since 2005 but I wont be buying FM25.

Every feature I have loved has now gone but I bet the price stays the same.

1 create a club, I love creating my own club in the lowest leagues and then working to win the champions League.

2, Touchline Shouts. Whenever I was drawing and needing a goal I used to use my touchline shouts and more often than not it helped us get the winning goal.

3. and now they have removed international football management. I used to role play as an international player who had just retired took over a club that had gone becoming defunct like Bury. I would rebrand the team revive them and take them to champions league winners and eventually earning my spot as England manager and then going onto the world cup. 

With so many features I love being removed I am willing to bet the price stays the same so were paying more and getting less. I have never not got a football manager game but it seems to me FM25 being stripped to the bare bones is not worth getting I will be back for FM26. 

Is this not the 2nd time you made this post?

[Carmi88]

21 minutes ago, parsdaft1982 said:

Is this not the 2nd time you made this post?

yes but that post was locked/deleted so it needs posting again otherwise they will need to buy the game

[-Jef-]

I just wanna say that these types of posts are burning my eyes. Not because of the content (can't read) but cos of the aesthetic lmao

 

[omerrath]

How come it has almost been 24h since that ‘leak’ is published , and no one mentioned it here?

 

[jayedson]

9 hours ago, kandersson said:

Everybody plays the game differently. As I said in a previous post, international football is a big part of most of my saves, be it a club and country challenge (San Marino double, Canada/Toronto FC, New Zealand/Wellington), a build a nation save or just a side job in a one-club save. Personally I don't have much interest in a long term save without international football.

As for weight, it might be 'pointless' for most people and I do find it a smaller issue than removing international management. Though for me it's one of the many things thad can add character to players and make the game more immersive. It's not necessarily about current real players btw: saves tend to become more interesting for me when the game is mostly populated by newgens, and I don't have a real life reference for their weight.

Also, if FM aims to be more and more realistic I would say that players' weight is quite relevant irl since clubs and managers often punish or fine overweight players and in fact FM already gives the option to warn and fine players who skip training. Personally for the sake of realism I would prefer that FM went in this direction, rather than removing weight.

I made a similar point earlier and agree that to dismiss player weight as something purely cosmetic and inconsequential is a little short sighted, as indeed we all play the game differently and with varying levels of micro / macro management. 

For those playing attributeless saves, weight makes a good proxy for strength, and height a good proxy for jumping reach (I remember reading somewhere height doesn't impact the ME nearly as much as jumping reach). So however inaccurate or random weight may be for x% of players in the db, it's still an element of a player's profile that may or may not be considered by us as players. 

I've made it clear before unlike some, I enjoy micro managing the squad dynamic / player managent side of the game. It would probably be an issue for current players maybe but for newgens, being able to track fluctuating player weights and act on it by telling a player they need to get in the gym more or adjust their diet, or telling a young striker they need to 'bulk up' would be an interesting area of player interaction that would illicit the usual mix of positive / negative reaction from the player based on their personality and relationship with you as their manager. 

It's by no means high on my priority list but is just an example of how elements of gameplay could be amplified.

In an ideal world, even the social media section could be integrated in a more gamified way, with players gaining social followers getting overconfident and players losing social followers feeling their confidence drop, and us as managers choosing whether to address it or not. 

How many new features can be added to a football simulation in its current state? Anything like this should at least be considered so removing elements of the game, however trivial or cosmetic they feel at the moment, feels like a backward step from an immersion perspective, and a missed opportunity from a future game mechanic perspective, although anything can obviously be reintroduced. 

All of this comes down to time and in order for the devs to meet deadlines, these things have had to be dropped in the transition to unity, but international management and shouts in particular better come back with a bang for FM26... 

[Novem9]

Today I have been waiting for the opportunity to move to another club for almost two months. After the next Euro, there were coaching changes. Perhaps one of the reasons for the delay in the management of a national teams is that the change of coaches is implemented unrealistically. Everything should happen much faster, with preliminary agreements, etc. This is a completely new functionality. With multiple steps, multi-level behavior.

Let's add that up to FM18 inclusive, AI managers could leave for another club one matchday before end of a season, even if 1st place was at stake (I personally saw it and sent a bug report). This was fixed, but now between the end of the season and the new one there is 'a window of silence', when clubs are waiting for... something. And this is a very important month, delay weakens clubs.

All this requires some refinement or even the creation of new logic, which would be great and much better. Just thoughts.

[Novem9]

2 часа назад, omerrath сказал:

How come it has almost been 24h since that ‘leak’ is published , and no one mentioned it here?

 

But there is no breaking news here? Details will be announced at the end of September, cool, hurray.

[Novem9]

12 часов назад, spursfan сказал:

I remember in earlier versions if we 'disagree' sufficiently with the board it leads to a (usually) quick dismissal.

I played in Uruguay and had a very annoying club owner. I vaguely remember the details, but he irritated me with his tyranny and at the same time it was fun as a change. After his refusals, I was asked at a press conference about the situation in the club. I answered honestly and negatively. When I moved to the next club, the board of this new club made me promise not to criticize them publicly. FM22