FM 25 DEVELOPMENT UPDATE

[jmlima]

1 hour ago, Brentford Alan said:

 

They haven't just thrown it up overnight though, from a quick timeline check and apologies for any errors, Bournemouth were in their fourth Premier League season when plans were submitted for the training ground in 2019, planning permission was given later in the year, and they are still at least 3 months from completion of the project. Even taking away a generous years delay for Covid I assume this would be an acceptable timeline in game for players to keep things realistic? Ie 3-4 years of relative success to acquire funds and then a 4 year build?

Finally something I actually know about. Funds are complex. You are looking at funding and build times from a perspective. In some countries stadiums are part funded by the taxpayer (don't even ask why...) in other countries, some clubs will get fully subsidized stadiums. If the new stadium is part of an overall larger event (say an Euro), funding happens even quicker. I mean, Euro 2004 had a bucket load of state handouts, and clubs got in massive debt, that they offloaded to the clubs, not the football bits. Some of them are still paying the stadiums, some interest only (!), the stadiums also bust several clubs. This is just to illustrate how complex these things are and how far they are from a 'one solution for all'. The financing bit is, well, better abstracted as FM does not have a chance in hell of ever reproducing the myriad different ways the financing operates. One thing we can say. A club with 100m will not just suddenly throw those 100m into a 100m stadium. They would still finance it over a period of time so, strictly from a cash flow perspective, what you see going out would not be those 100m but the regular payments over the course of many years.

Re design and building, you don't need a 4 year build. Again, in some countries, the design can take 6-9 months, approvals can be fiendishly complex (months, years, who knows?) or rubber stamped, depending on country, club, ownership, etc. Design may stagger a bit if the stadium is integrated with the inevitable associated shopping centres, office blocks, resi blocks, and so on. But, a competent and well resourced design team can still pull all of this in under a year (if the brief does not change... which it probably will as investors come on board...). Build time, anything over 2 years and you are slower than you need to be. I mean, depends on size, 2 years for a full blown major stadium, for one of those regional 5-15000 seats affairs, anything over 9 months and it's too slow. In short, yeah, 4 years but from design to completion (not just build). If for an event like an Euro, probably less as things can be compressed, approvals fast-tracked and so on. These days, because the decision on hosting is made a decade in advance, all these things can be properly planned and staggered over a longer period, which makes the process much more cost effective and allows investors to be brought on board in a more effective manner.

[Minotti]

10 hours ago, samrnpage said:

Analytics and graphs actually make it easier to view and digest the data compared to not having them. It seems like a very strange take on it... I guess looking at lines of numbers is easier for you? 

No! I don’t need a data hub! I wanna manage a team, chose tactics, buy/sell/loan players and watch the games. I don’t need to see graphs of xG and all kind of crap that’s popular. It’s already ruined the game in real life with people and commentators talking about made up expressions as an indication of how much they’ve “seen” the game. 
 

I just need a manager game where tactics gets better by making them more variable and complex and a better match engine as well as graphics. I couldn’t care less about crap like that or about the tedious “interviews” and social “interactions”

[Craigus89]

35 minutes ago, Minotti said:

No! I don’t need a data hub! I wanna manage a team, chose tactics, buy/sell/loan players and watch the games. I don’t need to see graphs of xG and all kind of crap that’s popular. It’s already ruined the game in real life with people and commentators talking about made up expressions as an indication of how much they’ve “seen” the game. 

Ah, the Kevin Keegan approach to managing a football team. 

Edited 13 hours ago by Craigus89

[Costav]

45 minutes ago, Minotti said:

No! I don’t need a data hub! I wanna manage a team, chose tactics, buy/sell/loan players and watch the games. I don’t need to see graphs of xG and all kind of crap that’s popular. It’s already ruined the game in real life with people and commentators talking about made up expressions as an indication of how much they’ve “seen” the game. 
 

I just need a manager game where tactics gets better by making them more variable and complex and a better match engine as well as graphics. I couldn’t care less about crap like that or about the tedious “interviews” and social “interactions”

This is how the world works in 2024. Your statement is like saying "I don't need a tablet/laptop to analyse the match, give me the VHS of a match and I will analyse it all by my own".
Although I agree that there is an excessive americanization of this sport in terms of data, stats, %, etc (footbal is not like basket, baseball or others,when you have a sequnce of repeated actions that you can perfectly summarize with statistics), data are very useful now-a-day (and give you more insight of what happens in the pitch.

If you don't like the data hub, please don't look at it. It's very easy!

[Minotti]

27 minutes ago, Craigus89 said:

Ah, the Kevin Keegan approach to managing a football team. 

I don’t want to burst your bubble but this is a GAME. It’s really not anything close to reality. I doubt Ancelottj actually decides to send a player to language course for extensive learning and that he decides if the club should pay for it or not LOL! You don’t really think you’re close to being a real life manager for playing FM, I hope not!

[Minotti]

15 minutes ago, Costav said:

This is how the world works in 2024. Your statement is like saying "I don't need a tablet/laptop to analyse the match, give me the VHS of a match and I will analyse it all by my own".
Although I agree that there is an excessive americanization of this sport in terms of data, stats, %, etc (footbal is not like basket, baseball or others,when you have a sequnce of repeated actions that you can perfectly summarize with statistics), data are very useful now-a-day (and give you more insight of what happens in the pitch.

If you don't like the data hub, please don't look at it. It's very easy!

That is missing the point! All the effort the developers put on crap like this means less effort to put on things that ACTUALLY make the game FUN!! 

[Carmi88]

23 minutes ago, Minotti said:

That is missing the point! All the effort the developers put on crap like this means less effort to put on things that ACTUALLY make the game FUN!! 

Some people find digging through all the stats and analysis fun though.

 

You state graphics as something to be improved, but people like me enjoy 2D, (and the weirdos who do commentary only ) so with your logic I think they should put less effort and resource on how the ME looks and focus more on other things 

[Costav]

40 minutes ago, Minotti said:

That is missing the point! All the effort the developers put on crap like this means less effort to put on things that ACTUALLY make the game FUN!! 

I agree with you that some other parts require more attention. This does not mean that the data hub is something that should be shut down.

[samrnpage]

I mean speak for yourselves. The fun part is diving into all the data and finding those hidden gems and wonderkids using it. 

[Craigus89]

48 minutes ago, Minotti said:

I don’t want to burst your bubble but this is a GAME. It’s really not anything close to reality. I doubt Ancelottj actually decides to send a player to language course for extensive learning and that he decides if the club should pay for it or not LOL! You don’t really think you’re close to being a real life manager for playing FM, I hope not!

You're right, its a game. People should be able to play it how they like, right? Some people enjoy stats and data, why would you want that gone just because you don't like it or think it should be a part of the game?

Carry on role playing like a proper football man if you want to, but don't wish others enjoyment away just because it doesn't conform to your 1990's view of what football should be.

And what has realism got to do with any of this, no one mentioned it nor cares.

[jmlima]

1 hour ago, Craigus89 said:

...

Carry on role playing like a proper football man if you want to, but don't wish others enjoyment away just because it doesn't conform to your 1990's view of what football should be.

...

Loba was already doing analytics even before the 90s. And he wasn't the only one. By mid-late 90s analytics were already coming into football. Yes, VHS tape style, but nevertheless. Caveman football really started to end by the late 70s. Heck, even direct football had a basis on percentages so that can potentially already be said to be analytics.

[Harima83]

I wonder if the Advanced Editor will have any issue, or even be removed, in FM25. I'm a bit worried.

Edited 10 hours ago by Harima83

[wazzaflow10]

8 hours ago, Tetsuro P12 said:

The Console version is for the veterans. Championship Manager's Amiga player, here. FM is for new maniacs of data and people without a life, FMC is for those who cares about the meat, we old players and new (non-maniacs) players. I like the easyness of the old together with the 3D match emotions of the new. Hopefully they will make the game more accessible by cutting the fluff and boosting the 3D match. I want to see the players play like in real life (animations, movements, applied tactics; and more eye catching, a better field, players models, etc.). I'm on Xbox SS. So, Amiga, PC and then Xbox. Skipped mobile because of the tiny screen, and I need the phone for other, FMC can plays in background.

FMC24 is good now, I criticized it a lot in its early days (especially because of its ostic UI/UX and ugly 3D match engine, back in time), make it excellent.

It will be unfortunate to not have international managment. It works good today, in my opinion. I do manage both club and international teams, given the opportunity. Today, I don't care at all about womens football, but who knows. Social agendas are of no interest for me (I actually hate them, I'm already skipping streaming services, movies and games influenced by gender wars, LGBTQ and woke in them, but I understand that womens football is a different thing, well... hopefully). Maybe it will be a new boulder to manage for SI. International management would have been eventually far easier to re-implement.

The console version is the same as the pc version with slight limitations on how many leagues you're running and possibly how long you can play. But nice gatekeeping.

Edited 10 hours ago by wazzaflow10

[Tetsuro P12]

2 ore fa, wazzaflow10 ha scritto:

The console version is the same as the pc version with slight limitations on how many leagues you're running and possibly how long you can play. But nice gatekeeping.

I see the Console version as totally different. It's far easier to navigate, it has far less fluff to consider, it's slender. I tried the demo of FM24 (for PC) but got overwhelmed and uninstalled it almost immediately; it's just not for me, and I suppose many others. I want to be happy while playing, not stressed. FMC is the answer to those criticizing the bloated game that FM became. Now let's see how FM25 will be, I hope they will build it on semplicity (not just simpler UI panels, but a simpler game too, like FMC already is).

Edited 7 hours ago by Tetsuro P12

[Malicious Penguin]

9 hours ago, Tetsuro P12 said:

The Console version is for the veterans. Championship Manager's Amiga player, here. FM is for new maniacs of data and people without a life, FMC is for those who cares about the meat, we old players and new (non-maniacs) players. I like the easyness of the old together with the 3D match emotions of the new. Hopefully they will make the game more accessible by cutting the fluff and boosting the 3D match. I want to see the players play like in real life (animations, movements, applied tactics; and more eye catching, a better field, players models, etc.). I'm on Xbox SS. So, Amiga, PC and then Xbox. Skipped mobile because of the tiny screen, and I need the phone for other, FMC can plays in background.

FMC24 is good now, I criticized it a lot in its early days (especially because of its ostic UI/UX and ugly 3D match engine, back in time), make it excellent.

It will be unfortunate to not have international managment. It works good today, in my opinion. I do manage both club and international teams, given the opportunity. Today, I don't care at all about womens football, but who knows. Social agendas are of no interest for me (I actually hate them, I'm already skipping streaming services, movies and games influenced by gender wars, LGBTQ and woke in them, but I understand that womens football is a different thing, well... hopefully). Maybe it will be a new boulder to manage for SI. International management would have been eventually far easier to re-implement.

Surprised you still play FM seeing as they introduced gay players a few years ago.

[trevjim]

17 hours ago, samrnpage said:

Analytics and graphs actually make it easier to view and digest the data compared to not having them. It seems like a very strange take on it... I guess looking at lines of numbers is easier for you? 

I wouldn't mind the sheer data dump if it actually meant anything.

 

Download a meta tactic from the forums and you will get all sorts of warnings from your assman about being overrun in midfield or to ease of the tracking etc. the data feedback will suggest your tactic isn't working when it actually is.

 

[trevjim]

1 hour ago, Tetsuro P12 said:

I see the Console version as totally different. It's far easier to navigate, it has far less fluff to consider, it's slender. I tried the demo of FM24 (for PC) but got overwhelmed and uninstalled it almost immediately; it's just not for me, and I suppose many others. I want to be happy while playing, not stressed. FMC is the answer to those criticing the bloated game that FM became. Now let's see how FM25 will be, I hope they will build it on semplicity (not just simpler UI panels, but a simpler game too, like FMC already is)

FM Touch used the be the jam. 

All the good stuff of FM without all the tedious and repetitive bloat slimlined.

It was so much better than the full version.

 

There are countless posts and comments on here about people wanting it back or at least a bloat free version.

 

Cynical me thinks they got rid of it simply because it was outshining their full fat version 

Edited 7 hours ago by trevjim

[zakbrown96]

2 minutes ago, trevjim said:

FM Touch used the be the jam. 

All the good stuff of FM without all the tedious and repetitive bloat slimlined.

It was so much better than the full version.

 

There are countless posts and comments on here about people wanting it back or at least a bloat free version.

 

Cynical me thinks they got rid of it simply because it was outshining their full fat version 

FM24 Touch is still a thing, Via Console, Switch, iPhone and iPad, and I believe you can also play it via Xbox Cloud. 

[trevjim]

Just now, zakbrown96 said:

FM24 Touch is still a thing, Via Console, Switch, iPhone and iPad, and I believe you can also play it via Xbox Cloud. 

Which is a shame because the majority of players are PC and don't want to rely on Xbox cloud.

 

If they ported it to all the consoles and mobiles, they should have kept it on PC. Especially as that's were they would have ported it from

[Novem9]

16 часов назад, Petra90 сказал:

Ah yes, can't wait for when I start playing as Arsenal's U-20 manager I start plotting to kill the main squad manager so I can inherit his job.

Sounds ambitious. The main thing is not to forget to launch FM after that too.

[Tetsuro P12]

21 minuti fa, trevjim ha scritto:

FM Touch used the be the jam. 

All the good stuff of FM without all the tedious and repetitive bloat slimlined.

It was so much better than the full version.

 

There are countless posts and comments on here about people wanting it back or at least a bloat free version.

 

Cynical me thinks they got rid of it simply because it was outshining their full fat version 

I missed it, unfortunately, so I can't speak for it. To me FMC is the golden egg, SI made so many things right and patched some annoyances through the years.

Though 3D match is key, it's where I spend most of my time and get most happyness, seeing how my new players brings novelty to the team, how it plays the matches and so on. Hopefully it will be a good upgrade in FM(C)25.

Now, worried about the lack of news from the developers.

Edited 7 hours ago by Tetsuro P12

[trevjim]

19 minutes ago, Tetsuro P12 said:

I missed it, unfortunately, so I can't speak for it. To me FMC is the golden egg, SI made so many things right and patched some annoyances through the years.

Though 3D match is key, it's where I spend most of my time and get most happyness, seeing how my new players brings novelty to the team, how it plays the matches and so on. Hopefully it will be a good upgrade in FM(C)25.

Now, worried about the lack of news from the developers.

FM Touch was essentially the same as FMC just newer. They renamed it because.......who knows.

Calling it "Touch" though was a mistake imo. It made it sound like a mobile game

[Lord Rowell]

51 minutes ago, zakbrown96 said:

FM24 Touch is still a thing, Via Console, Switch, iPhone and iPad, and I believe you can also play it via Xbox Cloud. 

I understand that. But I do think its a great shame it was dropped from the PC version. I hope once SI have navigated the move to Unity, that they might consider re-introducing FM Touch for PC players.

[StevehFC]

3 hours ago, Harima83 said:

I wonder if the Advanced Editor will have any issue, or even be removed, in FM25. I'm a bit worried.

I’d be surprised if that’s removed. If it is I don’t see me buying FM25. 

[Minotti]

I think some people here are completely missing the point! Over the last 6-7 years we have had very few changes that ACTUALLY matters, tactical flexibility, better match engine, better transfer dealings from AI clubs etc. Instead we have gotten lots of “manicure” changes that for some reason seem to con people into believing that the “game is so real life” cause it has statistics, “sports scientists” and whatnot when in reality they really offer very very little if anything! 
 

fix the major stuff first and give us better tactical board and flexibility along with match engine we’ve been screaming about and better graphics etc instead of graphs, stats or stupid **** like “now you can hire sports scientists” when none of these actually matters! You should’ve stopped at scouts and medicals. It doesn’t make the game more realistic by adding personnel just to look cool! What’s next, a janitor? Ball boys ??

[Malicious Penguin]

FM Console IS available on PC - I've said it in a few threads now!

Use either Xbox Gamepass or the Microsoft Store.

[trevjim]

Just now, Malicious Penguin said:

FM Console IS available on PC - I've said it in a few threads now!

Use either Xbox Gamepass or the Microsoft Store.

That's the issue. 

 

Why remove it (touch) from PC if we have to go through those means to get it. People would much rather play it on Steam then pay for Gamepass or use Microsoft store

[trevjim]

37 minutes ago, Minotti said:

I think some people here are completely missing the point! Over the last 6-7 years we have had very few changes that ACTUALLY matters, tactical flexibility, better match engine, better transfer dealings from AI clubs etc. Instead we have gotten lots of “manicure” changes that for some reason seem to con people into believing that the “game is so real life” cause it has statistics, “sports scientists” and whatnot when in reality they really offer very very little if anything! 
 

fix the major stuff first and give us better tactical board and flexibility along with match engine we’ve been screaming about and better graphics etc instead of graphs, stats or stupid **** like “now you can hire sports scientists” when none of these actually matters! You should’ve stopped at scouts and medicals. It doesn’t make the game more realistic by adding personnel just to look cool! What’s next, a janitor? Ball boys ??

As I've said before. FM is 95% tactics and transfers. The other 5% has very little effect on the game and majority of it is tedious.

People want improvements to the two core aspects of the game. Tactics (better match engine. No single meta tactic etc.) and Transfers (better AI).

SI for the last 10 years have focused so much on the 5% and missed the ball on core aspects of the game.

I suspect the reason the match engine doesn't ever seem to change a great deal is partly because the Devs that originally built it have moved on, and also they seem hesitant to make any drastic changes for fear of making a mess of it. It's almost like in the last 10 years they have got it from 70% ok to 80%, yet don't know how to improve it any more, so keep making small tweaks instead of rebuilding it from the ground up.

 

AI squad building? I get that this is really hard and complex but there are some huge shortfalls in it that have been around for 20+ years. Eg AI buying players and never playing them, or buying players they don't need.

They are also terrible at developing youth. I'm pretty sure this was touted as a feature in the last version but someone did a deep dive and the changes are pretty much non existent. They will only play players based on current CA. Instead of giving a high PA a game in the cups or last 20 mins etc.

Edited 5 hours ago by trevjim

[Malicious Penguin]

13 minutes ago, trevjim said:

That's the issue. 

 

Why remove it (touch) from PC if we have to go through those means to get it. People would much rather play it on Steam then pay for Gamepass or use Microsoft store

I don't see how using Microsoft Store is an issue if you have a PC.

[Lord Rowell]

23 minutes ago, Malicious Penguin said:

I don't see how using Microsoft Store is an issue if you have a PC.

Does it cost anything extra?
Genuine question - I don't know the answer and until I saw your post I wasn't even aware it was on Microsoft Store.

[trevjim]

23 minutes ago, Malicious Penguin said:

I don't see how using Microsoft Store is an issue if you have a PC.

Both the full version and console version are 59.99 for a start.

FM was around £35 on release and free last week. Why pay almost double that on the Microsoft store? Plus the Microsoft store is hot garbage. Especially with it's updates.

If SI really wanted PC players playing the console version they would have made it available on Steam. 

[trevjim]

Just now, Lord Rowell said:

Does it cost anything extra?
Genuine question - I don't know the answer and until I saw your post I wasn't even aware it was on Microsoft Store.

Yes. It's 59.99.

 

Microsoft store is renowned for being expensive and poor with updates