FM 25 DEVELOPMENT UPDATE

[Rodrigogc]

Agora, MrPompey disse:

Even if that was the case then  the option exists to carry on and release the mens game, and release an update for women's later....... In any case you cant help think that FM25 released March '25 is going to generate a lot less sales than one in Nov '24

That is actually a good idea, but SI has been sinking in the mud at this point already. It feels like the pre orders expectations were not fulfilled, leading to this announcement. That's what I can take from stating the game will be delayed 11 days after opening for pre orders. 

Anyway, I hope this won't impact future versions, but it probably will - that's what concerns me much. It's a new era, a new engine, and SI has started pretty badly. 

[ForTheLoveOfTheGame]

1 minute ago, MrPompey said:

That would happen if FM25 is the blip they would want to return to Nov release. They would not move to a March release. I agree it might be worth scrapping a march release and wait for Nov 25 for FM 26 but Im sure for financial reasons, let alone contractual it just wont happen

 

November is too late. 

New game with a fresh engine. A new dawn. Middle to late September should become the new normal. That’s enough time after the transfer window shuts to release. Other sports games do it. 

[Blünderbossu]

Wild to pretend they had a road map when they full knew they were lost in the woods.

[kiwityke1983]

13 minutes ago, Domoboy23 said:

As a Huddersfield fan I can confirm that come March I already highly dislike a lot of our players and they don't get anywhere near my squad on FM 

As a Barnsley fan I already dislike our new manager, director of football and 90% of the squad!

By March I suspect a lot of them won't even be employed by us!

[grade]

4 minutes ago, Metjuw said:

..And that is where you're mistaken when they switched from the 2D to 3D match engine - there were no delays back then. So why are there delays this time? Why remove the majority of the features that made the game what it is today? Adding women's football to the game isn't going to bring any significant value either. They had a whole year to work on this, so by now, the game should be in the polishing / finishing phases. No game can ever be released bug free. Yet, despite all this talk about transparency, they haven’t even explained why it’s been delayed to March 2025.

What’s the point of playing a game when it’s released so late in the football season, with the new version coming out in November anyway? They might as well focus on releasing a fully finished game in November. But of course, they can’t do that because they want our money.

Because the code base of FM24 and previous editions, is quite different from the Unity one. As I said, the Unity isn't just adapting the match engine and 2d and 3d graphics. It is the entire game will be running in Unity. It is entirely different beast.

I imagine what is like to adapt old legacy code into new one... I get scared just think about it.

I'm for a September release date, instead of November for quite long time.

Edited Thursday at 16:59 by grade

[Domoboy23]

28 minutes ago, MrPompey said:

 Given it will be your 2025 holiday allowance you'll be Ok but will need holiday booked March '25 for FM25 and Nov '25 for FM 26. See if you can carry this years Nov hol into 2025  

My planned 2 weeks paternity leave in November now look sparse for plans.

However my shared paternity leave for March next year until August is looking pretty good 

[Dbuk1]

For everyone concerned about the new release date that is later in the season I wouldn’t panic. It might get delayed again and be back on the normal schedule so relax lol

[chete]

2 minutes ago, grade said:

Because the code base of FM24 and previous editions, is quite different from the Unity one. As I said, the Unity isn't just adapting the match engine and 2d and 3d graphics. It is the entire game will be running in Unity. It is entirely different beast.

I imagine what is like to adapt old legacy code into new one... I get scared just think about it.

I'm for a September release date, instead of November for quite long time.

It's not entirely different. Unity is used for the match engine and the UI.

The actual game (AI, logic, transfers, processing, simulation), all of that will remain the same as the previous versions. This is not my opinion, this was confirmed.

[CaptainSa]

5 minutes ago, Metjuw said:

Why remove the majority of the features that made the game what it is today?

Utterly hilarious is this idea that frigging draft mode and touchline shouts made the game what it is today.

13 minutes ago, Rodrigogc said:

It won't be the same. They are developing a different match engine for both Men and Women. That's why there will be different roles for women and men. 

Has any of this been said by SI at any point lol?

16 minutes ago, Nickg07 said:

But they had to create the database from scratch.

For which they hired an entirely new team to work on it several years ago. It's not taken away a single person from the development of FM25 because if they weren't introducing it, those people wouldn't be working on the game, they'd be unemployed.

[Delicate Dave]

1 hour ago, SHK-555 said:

The promotion was terrible, it was all cloak and daggers and when they announced they were removing features I couldn't really get excited, so glad they delayed, but not happy it's until March they really need to scrap it or like you say announce they are releasing at cut price or beta version to prepare for fm26

I think they've been victim of their own open stance but also victim of their promotion. It would have been better if they said last year that the project to move to Unity would take as long as it takes and in the meantime FM24 would be maintained. Being open is great, but you can't just use it to give bad news, you have also manage expectations. In another world they could have this forum advising to delay it so it's right rather then moaning about delays.

[ATV]

time to boot 24 back up then....

[FM'd-BRO]

I wonder how this affects their new  Premier league partnership. 

This is definitely going to be long six months for SI, clearly the game is unplayable at this point. 

Why did they make an official announcement and allow preorders two weeks prior to this delay, this is a huge L for SI and SEGA. 

Let's face it the vast majority of us were expecting a **** show when they announced the unity partnership.

[SPE3D]

On 04/09/2024 at 21:44, SPE3D said:

The general vibe of that latest development article is not encouraging. I wouldn't be surprised if this year's game is eventually scrapped and they go to FM26. A move I wouldn't be against if it meant we got a playable game.

I called it 6 weeks ago.

[Metjuw]

3 minutes ago, grade said:

Because the code base of FM24 and previous editions, is quite different from the Unity one. As I said, the Unity isn't just adapting the match engine and 2d and 3d graphics. It is the entire game will be running in Unity. It is entirely different beast.

I imagine what is like to adapt old legacy code into new one... I get scared just think about it.

I'm for a September release date, instead of November for quite long time.

I understand the game is moving to an entirely new engine, and I get that reworking it involves a lot of resources. But beyond that, they also wanted to remove several features and introduce a women's league database. In today's news update, they even admitted they were tight on schedule, so why try to take on so much at once? It's unrealistic, and they must have known that.

They chose to go down this route instead of focusing on hitting the standard release date, which led to negative reactions from the player base. It’s obvious they don’t care about the community.

Sure, a September release would be fine too. Honestly, the release date—whether it's September or November—doesn't matter as long as they release the game when they say they will.

[markyosullivan]

One positive for companies around the world to take away from this announcement - there'll be less people taking a week off sick around October / November this year

 

[ajw10]

So...

What is the point of FM 25? Why is anyone going to pay full price for a game that has a shelf life of 6/7 months at best?

Unless the game is going to be released every March, which is equally as pointless as no one wants a game that's almost out of date.

Clearly we were lied to a week ago. You don't suddenly need to delay the game for 3-4 months in the space of the week. So either SI were going to release a game that was nowhere near ready or the knew a week ago that they would need to delay it further.

Not sure how SI recover from this in the short term. Do we get an update for FM24 or will that game be fully ignored? FM is a habit after all, so months without playing will surely mean that some stop playing the game in the long term.

[HighFlyingDwarf]

5 minutes ago, Metjuw said:

so why try to take on so much at once? It's unrealistic, and they must have known that.

Poor management...

[Nickg07]

10 minutes ago, CaptainSa said:

Utterly hilarious is this idea that frigging draft mode and touchline shouts made the game what it is today.

Has any of this been said by SI at any point lol?

For which they hired an entirely new team to work on it several years ago. It's not taken away a single person from the development of FM25 because if they weren't introducing it, those people wouldn't be working on the game, they'd be unemployed.

 

Believe it or not hiring an entirely new team costs £££.

 

You could use the same money to bring in more unity devs.  

 

Let's face it fm21, 22, 23, 24 have all basically been a reskin and tweaks. 

 

Si have milked the market when they should have been spending the money to develop unity in parallel so it was ready... but not as a side show.

[Domoboy23]

2 minutes ago, ajw10 said:

So...

What is the point of FM 25? Why is anyone going to pay full price for a game that has a shelf life of 6/7 months at best?

Unless the game is going to be released every March, which is equally as pointless as no one wants a game that's almost out of date.

Clearly we were lied to a week ago. You don't suddenly need to delay the game for 3-4 months in the space of the week. So either SI were going to release a game that was nowhere near ready or the knew a week ago that they would need to delay it further.

Not sure how SI recover from this in the short term. Do we get an update for FM24 or will that game be fully ignored? FM is a habit after all, so months without playing will surely mean that some stop playing the game in the long term.

I know someone who played FM12 all the way through to FM24 as they couldn't get in or didn't like the other versions. So shelf life is unique to the player, really. But yes, most people will instantly crave the new version just 7/8 months later.

[WelshMourinho]

4 minutes ago, Metjuw said:

I understand the game is moving to an entirely new engine, and I get that reworking it involves a lot of resources. But beyond that, they also wanted to remove several features and introduce a women's league database. In today's news update, they even admitted they were tight on schedule, so why try to take on so much at once? It's unrealistic, and they must have known that.

They chose to go down this route instead of focusing on hitting the standard release date, which led to negative reactions from the player base. It’s obvious they don’t care about the community.

Sure, a September release would be fine too. Honestly, the release date—whether it's September or November—doesn't matter as long as they release the game when they say they will.

Disagreed here. I have no issues with a delayed game, if it's not ready it's not ready.

The problem is pretending that the game was in any shape to be released while biding as much time as possible, and then opening for pre orders (seriously?) Only to delay the game for months less than 2 weeks later. 

SI have a ton of goodwill with people, but more and more it feels like that's been taken advantage of. I feel for the devs, but this entire thing should've been handled better.

[Malicious Penguin]

CM4 v2. 

The fact they released a "roadmap" is now embarrassing, especially as it's quite clear it's a road to nowhere.

[Malicious Penguin]

Honestly, they'd be better off releasing a data update for FM24 and skipping FM25.

[Bahoi]

I would like to address this utter lunacy with fm24 db update. Lassies, lads, guys, people, they couldn't release a game on schedule or delayed schedule that they boasted about working on since before fm24. And you want them to release some update for a game that is effectively dead for them, out of which they can no longer generate any profit from?!? They run a business, not a community. Hence the roadmap that led to nothing, they just pitched something for some preorders from people who defend them now like brothers. 

[stevemc]

20 hours ago, stevemc said:

Such an interesting watch.

I've got first-hand experience in this as my day job, I'm a Lead Delivery Manager (been doing this for a while + change management) but my current project is for a very large migration of three functions out of a very old coded platform into a new responsive auto-coded platform, we had a session exactly like this about 4 years ago which was brilliant, started the project officially about 3 years ago and will be fully complete by June next year. We switched design tools into Figma too (like SI) which directly mirrors (plugs-in) the new systems pre-designed reusable components (cards) for mockups, idea generation or trying complicated designs, but in reality post-migration a lot of changes are done directly in the new system in real time, without the need for Figma which also speeds up the design process. We also moved our data too into a new application too, so 3 major changes to systems and tools.

If you don't work in this type of area, you won't be able to comprehend the level of detail and the amount of pre-thinking/planning that goes onto a task of this size, so I can totally sympathise with SI going through this change, on top of that you have all the up-skilling/retraining that goes into this too, so short-term pain will provide a real platform for progress. But I can tell you the benefits once over the other side are MASSIVE, non-technical designers/people can now use a system which is much simpler to use requiring no engineering support, to make changes, the changes are almost instant and automatically pull through into any variant of device (desktop > tablet > mobile > app) without the need for individual or manual code changes and peer-checks/testing, time saving is huge and so much quicker to implement, reducing lead times - so imagine the benefits in this for "patches", SI could be way more agile in the future with patches, releasing much quicker and frequently. Another benefit is the visual quality of the UI and accessibility options, it's pin-sharp, responsive and caters for a variety of impairments.

Tying this back into the well scrutinised Roadmap... I can see why they've been "vague" with the dates too and the launch is delayed, throughout my experience of the project above, many of our key dates were initially missed or pushed back at the start of this journey purely because of the size of the task and amount of new people/systems involved, but now we are years into this project and the people are more comfortable with the new systems we are hitting the key milestones each week/month, we've not missed a deadline in 6 months now and we've even had early releases too.

FM25 might not be smooth, and that'll be frustrating for us players, but this is 100% the right direction for a game of this detail, especially in order to grow and improve the game experience - I think 2-3 iterations of FM's down the line will prove this was at the correct decision. 

I posted the above yesterday and it all ties into SI's press release today to push back FM25 to March. It's not been great marketing so far but it's the correct decision, no one wants a half-baked game, so delaying it is for the best. But then I'd question why release a full-priced FM25 game in March (at the end of the football season too...) if a full-priced FM26 is going to be out in November, just 7-8 months later. That only makes sense to me from a financial and contractual/licenses position, it would be better skipping entirely and release a jam-packed FM26 with the return of international management and all the bells & whistles, whilst propping that up with an FM24 database update before Christmas (even if it was a small chargeable fee). Alternatively open "FM25" up as a 6-month chargeable/discounted rolling Beta in March for FM26 so the customer base/community can help feedback bugs and issues for FM26.

The part of this that doesn't sit well with me though is pushing for pre-orders when this game was clearly never going to be ready for November, given it's been pushed back to March which is 1/3 through it's usual annual cycle, a hefty period of time. With Miles propping up decisions against the company values, I'm interested to see which value that falls under.

Disappointed but could see it coming, but it's the correct decision, thankfully I didn't pre-order but can also see further delays here.

[ajw10]

5 minutes ago, Domoboy23 said:

I know someone who played FM12 all the way through to FM24 as they couldn't get in or didn't like the other versions. So shelf life is unique to the player, really. But yes, most people will instantly crave the new version just 7/8 months later.

but that person isn't important to SI. They need to sell games and I'm not sure how many people will pay full price for both FM 25 and 26

[Rodrigogc]

I might be overthinking here, but it feels like there's been a massive lack of communication within SI that led to the bad communication for the public. This move to Unity may have been pushed by superiors who saw Unity as an attempt to appeal to a broader audience, Women's football has been planned for a few years, the marketing team has been promoting the game as if nothing bad is happening and the developers may have managed to convince everyone they won't be able to finish the game until November. Mix this all togheter with a tight deadline and Boom, you have this disaster. We have to remember that this announcement wasn't signed by Miles, so probably has been consensus after a lot of debate within the company. 

[DP]

39 minutes ago, MrPompey said:

The FM game is the same for men and women, Women's football is really just the data. You could still release FM25 and later release a Women DB update if that was the case, a 4 month delay suggests something much more fundamental. Disappointing of course but nothing we can do...aside from FIFA 25  

It’s not just the data though is it? It’s also the animations and how it plays out in the match engine. 

I’m not suggesting women’s football is the sole reason for the delay but people saying it’s just data are being disingenuous. 

Edited Thursday at 17:24 by DP

[ajw10]

1 minute ago, Bahoi said:

I would like to address this utter lunacy with fm24 db update. Lassies, lads, guys, people, they couldn't release a game on schedule or delayed schedule that they boasted about working on since before fm24. And you want them to release some update for a game that is effectively dead for them, out of which they can no longer generate any profit from?!? They run a business, not a community. Hence the roadmap that led to nothing, they just pitched something for some preorders from people who defend them now like brothers. 

SI provided an update in 01/02 due to delayed release of CM4.

SI need people to keep playing their games. 

[Boycott]

Zealand made the point on his stream that SEGA's fiscal year runs from March to March. So with legal obligations this is the furthest back they can push it without releasing a game. 

This makes the September post about needing to just delay the game from early November to late November look quite misleading. Maybe not even deliberately but serious lack of judgement. 

[AllyJoseph]

There's been way too much blind defence of the indefensible on these forums over the past 20 years. That being said, there's been an equal amount of needless outrage. I think this time though, people are right to feel mislead and lose a bit of faith in SI. They absolutely intended on releasing a subpar game, people had a justified right to be concerned and those concerns have played out. At the end of the day, its a company, just like any other, and should be held accountable for its actions like any other. I don't like calling for people to lose jobs, that's outrageous when its just a game, but definitely feel like people are always quick to defend criticism on here when they sometimes should accept the criticism is valid. The only language they will listen to at the end of the day, is the bottom line, criticism that hurts that bottom line will be the only way to improve the game. Constantly accepting or defending them when they lie or "embelish" leads to a sub par product, or as we've had recently, broken features.

There's no way that a March release makes any amount of sense other than to try and squeeze a little bit out of the last month in the financial year. It also makes FM26 release date be a mess as well. They have to reset here, its the only logical option. Make FM25 a free data update.

If licensing is an issue, I'd love to see an official "retro" database. They could just port their data from older games if needs be. Maybe a like 01/02 database or something? Obviously upto date data is preferable, but if they simply can't, they need to do SOMETHING to repair the good will that they've lost here.

Also, they need to really work on their communications. There's multiple concerns that are never addressed. Releasing updates through Miles twitter is outrageous to be brutally honest. There's hundreds of examples of how to release comms for a game, follow their models. Also, stop brushing off genuine concerns as faux outrage from sweaty gamers. It's almost always because a lot of people have played this game for 30+ years and just want it to continue to succeed.

They can start by showing us the new match engine asap. Just give people something graphically impressive to latch onto. What is worth all this trouble? There has to be some kind of fruit of the labours?

[Touristas3]

Just sharing my thoughts on this pretty rough day for anyone involved ,

 

Delaying the release is a hard but fair decision , i feel there is no ''game'' basically at this point and surely releasing it at this state would be a huge slap in the face for all of us . At full price also as was planned.

 

What i think will happen is they will release in March '25 but wont have any updates after this point , they will immediately switch focus in FM26

March is always their last update anyway all those years , and again understandable with the current situation.

What i fully expect to happen is the game to be released with a third of its price , you cant possibly charge us full price on a game thats gonna stay relevant for basically 3 months , until the end of May.

Hopefully this will turn into a huge beta (i dont have high hopes its gonna be polished even by then ) with our feedback leading to a smoother FM26 release .

 

[Domoboy23]

2 minutes ago, Boycott said:

Zealand made the point on his stream that SEGA's fiscal year runs from March to March. So with legal obligations this is the furthest back they can push it without releasing a game. 

This makes the September post about needing to just delay the game from early November to late November look quite misleading. Maybe not even deliberately but serious lack of judgement. 

Surely this also suggests that March might not be achievable and the date is still just a stab in the dark to ensure those obligations, and not that March is the marker for the game to be ''release quality''

Edited Thursday at 17:27 by Domoboy23

[Lord Rowell]

Suggestion.

Release in March 2025, but call it FM26.

As part of the package, full and free database update for the 2025-26 season as soon as that is logistically possibly.

Return to November lauches for FM27 onwards going forwards.

Yes I realise it means they skip an edition, but I really wonder how the alternative of a release in March and then November is going to make any sense anyway?

[jimbo22]

Just now, Domoboy23 said:

Surely this also suggests that March might not be achievable and the date is still just a stab in the dark?

No in business terms it means the game will be released no matter what. Sega want a return no matter what the return is. Heads will be rolling because of this, Companies like Sega dont mess around on losing millions of pounds. 

[joeys]

The idea of SI knowing last week that they are nowhere near the November release and still selling it is just terrible. And to think that the last game got little to none new features because of these new big things. Bad press. Really bad press.

[oche balboa]

Did the lack of pre-orders force the delay? Perhaps SI were going to release a half finished game if they got loads of Pre-orders?

 

 

[Bahoi]

3 minutes ago, ajw10 said:

SI provided an update in 01/02 due to delayed release of CM4.

SI need people to keep playing their games. 

They are playing their games. All of us here will buy the game in March. And then again in November. Be real. It takes much more from them to make us break away from the series. They know it. 

[Domoboy23]

Just now, jimbo22 said:

No in business terms it means the game will be released no matter what. Sega want a return no matter what the return is. Heads will be rolling because of this, Companies like Sega dont mess around on losing millions of pounds. 

I think you missed my point. I'm suggesting the game will be released in March, yes, but not because that's when it's release quality and finished, but just to fulfil those obligations. 

[abirdc]

The good thing for SI is that FM franchise has a huge loyal and dedicated fanbase. No matter how much people complain or criticize the game, the fanbase will still stick with it. Despite the grumbling, fans will buy FM 25, and then, six months later, they will turn around and buy FM 26 too.

SI knows this full well, and that is why they felt confident enough to announce FM 25 the way they did. But honestly, if they really cared about the fanbase, they would cancel FM 25, focus on FM 26 with a proper release in September next year, and give us a data update DLC for FM 24. Even if that DLC cost 10 euros, people would still buy it, no question.

But the way they have handled this whole situation? It feels like they are no different from companies like EA or Ubisoft now, just churning out titles with less regard for the community. It is disappointing, to say the least.

[Bahoi]

1 minute ago, joeys said:

The idea of SI knowing last week that they are nowhere near the November release and still selling it is just terrible. And to think that the last game got little to none new features because of these new big things. Bad press. Really bad press.

THIS is exactly what rattles me most. Fm24 was so BARE BONES because of How Fm25 Will Be The Next Generation Stuff. And there is no fm25 at all. 

[DSYoungEsq]

3 hours ago, Novem9 said:

This is entirely on the management's conscience imo. Competition could force a company to be more productive. But that's no guarantee. For a niche genre, it could be a problem because the number of clients is very limited. 

What I'm more interested in is this: Would SI have dared to make such an absurd roadmap if their shares were traded on the stock exchange?  

 

Being exchange listed hasn't really made Paradox less likely to mess up, IMHO.  

[ajw10]

2 minutes ago, Bahoi said:

They are playing their games. All of us here will buy the game in March. And then again in November. Be real. It takes much more from them to make us break away from the series. They know it. 

how many are going to play FM 24 post Christmas? This will definitely hit them

[ForTheLoveOfTheGame]

1 minute ago, Lord Rowell said:

Suggestion.

Release in March 2025, but call it FM26.

As part of the package, full and free database update for the 2025-26 season as soon as that is logistically possibly.

Return to November lauches for FM27 onwards going forwards.

Yes I realise it means they skip an edition, but I really wonder how the alternative of a release in March and then November is going to make any sense anyway?

I’m sure they’re banging heads at Sports Interactive HQ in Stratford about precisely this. 

If they’re going to skip a version, which it seems like they will have to make a decision to sacrifice something, then surely it makes most sense for this to be FM25 - Already massively delayed and behind schedule. Can’t see any situation in which they both release FM25 and FM26 within 7 months. 

[armbi]

1 hour ago, Viking said:

I'd rather have a playable game in March than a bug soup in November

It won't be fully playable. The real tests start when fans get the game. Maybe FM 26 rather 27 

[jimbo22]

2 minutes ago, Domoboy23 said:

I think you missed my point. I'm suggesting the game will be released in March, yes, but not because that's when it's release quality and finished, but just to fulfil those obligations. 

Yeah I'm on the same page the game will be released in March no matter the state that its in. It will be early march too so that Sega can have sales for the month of March to use in their company earnings. 

 

Ill say it right now anyone buying this game is off their head. It will be an absolute mess when it releases. You dont offer up a release date then move it 4 months if its not a complete disaster. 

Edited Thursday at 17:34 by jimbo22

[andu1]

It's not the first game delayed in the history of video games... Hopefully 4-5 months is enough to do the necessary polishing...

[Nickg07]

Just now, andu1 said:

It's not the first game delayed in the history of video games... Hopefully 4-5 months is enough to do the necessary polishing...

 

But it is one of the ones that relies on real life data and coincides with a sporting calendar though...

[Carmi88]

That guy who leaked the release date a few weeks ago is looking like a complete fool right now

[andu1]

Just now, Nickg07 said:

 

But it is one of the ones that relies on real life data and coincides with a sporting calendar though...

Yeah i know that... I think they will probably have to sacrifice FM26 release schedule for 1 year... Releasing 2 games in 6-7 months is absurd.

[Domoboy23]

2 minutes ago, andu1 said:

It's not the first game delayed in the history of video games... Hopefully 4-5 months is enough to do the necessary polishing...

I think they need something to do the polishing on first and foremost 

But yes, fingers crossed.