FM 25 DEVELOPMENT UPDATE

[lied90]

34 minutes ago, Icy said:

While I agree in general that the silence after the announcement is not helping them at all, probably they are just trying to analyze and control the damage already done.

[grade]

52 minutes ago, Icy said:

While I agree in general that the silence after the announcement is not helping them at all, probably they are just trying to analyze and control the damage already done. Is it better to remain silent until the storm is over or should they say something more... that might make things even worse? I won't like to be in their shoes, don't know the correct answer.

Having said that, SI has never said anything about releasing an updated database, it was us users asking for it. So they don't have to confirm or deny something they have never mentioned as en even remote possibility.

We are requesting a data update of starting 2024/2025 season, because it would be a gesture of good faith from SI's part.

I'm saying this as I have no clue what kind of licensing they have with these games, which is telling how little SI does communicate with these forums (even it is against forums rules to discuss any sort of licensing). Nor do I expect anyone from SI say anything about it. Don't really care, why they do what they do, in the way they do it. It has been their modus operandi of the past 20 years, despite the divide between us and SI.

Nor do I consider any blow back from our part. When they start announcing stuff and showing us FM25 we are going to be excited like a dog is when owner is holding a tennis ball or a stick, waiting anxiously for the throw... in our case for the actually release of Beta testing.

Edited 15 hours ago by grade

[2feet]

They may need a longer beta phase for FM25, because lots of aspects of the new game will be unfamiliar and they have not had a decade to develop efficient practise and streamline their work.

If so, maybe they will release beta a bit earlier than it has been in the past?

[gunner86]

8 hours ago, grade said:

 

With that said, it what really bad how SI handle FM25 the last couple of weeks. How can someone release a release date and 10 days later... sorry my bad the game is delayed... 5 months. They need to appease the masses, they are bit disgruntled with SI at this point.

 

They did say in their announcement that the decision to delay was made after discussions with SEGA and the licensors. I don’t think it’s unreasonable to infer from that that they needed permission from both to delay as far as they now have. That being the case, the previous announcements do make sense under the thought process of “what if we can’t delay?”. They were at a point where they needed to start putting stuff out.

Not saying that’s definitely what’s happened. Just I can see the logic in it.

[John100]

Given the move to unity and the need to further simplify changes done across platforms it would not surprise me if their UI is more less the same among console / pc / mac, with more changes expected for UI regarding mobile and touch given they tend to run on smaller screen devices.

However I do not find an issue with the UI shown so far, it seems cleaner and easier to follow along despite being a data heavy driven game, but there has been for some time now skins to change looks of game, so it's not a concern tbh.

I do not use a skin except the default one, bc during matches the game sometimes crashes and of course it's due to skin.

Edited 14 hours ago by John100

[Lord Rowell]

5 hours ago, sufcdan said:

Do the decent thing and just announce whether there will or won’t be an official data update for FM24

At this point it’s the very least you could do so either way we know

The silence from miles and in general is deafening

Some accountability goes far

With respect, I don't see why SI should or should not do this either way.

Don't get me wrong, I'd love them to do it, it would be nice, I'd pop them a fiver for it.

But they've not done this before and hence there's no burden of prior proof on them to do so.

Furthermore, and this is really important, I suspect porting FM25 player data back to FM24 and then formatting that for an update is not a simple task and will take many many human hours of work!

Given that the pressure is to deliver FM25, if I were SI, I'd not be doing this. I would be asking staff to focus on delivery of FM25 by March.

I do think, and I will keep saying this, we need "something" from SI, and we do need to hear from Miles at some point with a little more explanation / detail. I appreciate its not been long since the bombshell but Miles does need to surface at a near point in the future.

[Dagenham_Dave]

6 minutes ago, Lord Rowell said:

Furthermore, and this is really important, I suspect porting FM25 player data back to FM24 and then formatting that for an update is not a simple task and will take many many human hours of work!

The amount of people who can't grasp this is astounding. 

 

 

[gunner86]

12 minutes ago, Lord Rowell said:

 

Furthermore, and this is really important, I suspect porting FM25 player data back to FM24 and then formatting that for an update is not a simple task and will take many many human hours of work!

 

Beyond that, there’s almost certainly licensing issues. We’ll never know what’s in the contracts with licensors, but there’s a reason that games can’t be sold digitally after a certain point, and similarly come off game pass etc.

[Chooxen]

9 hours ago, Ventricity said:

There´s a video of one of the developers talking about their change to unity. it´s a long video where he shows how they design it and the challenges they had to face. however there were alot of things that surprised me. The unity move is "only" changing the interface and graphics engine. they are not changing the decades old codebase, only porting it over. So the game will actually work the same under the hood. But what surprised me was him saying that changing this code that they have worked on for 20 years would take too long, like another 20 years. This is just complete nonsense. Game programming have progressed alot and FM is not that advanced. Mostly it´s the game simulations that is complex. In other words, they have a lot of technical debt that makes them afraid to make any real innovations to the game.

I watched some of the Unity development videos. I don't know the details of the Unity deal but it appears to me to be far more trouble than it's worth. They're nerding out over how easy it's going to be to do xyz once it's all set up, But in what way does that benefit us as players? It seems to me to be a move that devs want for their own quality of life as opposed to for players.

Unless the graphics engine turns out FIFA-esque and the UI is somehow just as accessible and usable - neither of which seems remotely likely - it will go down as a costly waste of time.

[scythian12]

5 hours ago, Chooxen said:

I watched some of the Unity development videos. I don't know the details of the Unity deal but it appears to me to be far more trouble than it's worth. They're nerding out over how easy it's going to be to do xyz once it's all set up, But in what way does that benefit us as players? It seems to me to be a move that devs want for their own quality of life as opposed to for players.

Unless the graphics engine turns out FIFA-esque and the UI is somehow just as accessible and usable - neither of which seems remotely likely - it will go down as a costly waste of time.

But better QoL for the developers should mean quicker and more robust development in the future = more and better polished features. In theory.

[The Bus]

8 minutes ago, scythian12 said:

But better QoL for the developers should mean quicker and more robust development in the future = more and better polished features. In theory.

So we presumably get extended FM26 beta sold to us as FM25 only to be asked for preorders of FM26 in the beginning of summer when the financial result looks bad due to this mishandling of a loyal customer base. At that point we are supposed to be happy about developer QoL. Just about everyone keeps telling, that they're pissed off how they handled this in public and keep hiding. At some point they need to face the music and Miles especially as the face of the franchise. Quite often I preorder immediately, but now I had the first hunch of trouble when instead of any news we were fed with eSports news for the summer and seeing the release date announcement without anything relevant. Then I didn't preorder and I couldn't have been more right.

[RandomGuy.]

6 hours ago, Chooxen said:

I watched some of the Unity development videos. I don't know the details of the Unity deal but it appears to me to be far more trouble than it's worth. They're nerding out over how easy it's going to be to do xyz once it's all set up, But in what way does that benefit us as players? It seems to me to be a move that devs want for their own quality of life as opposed to for players.

Unless the graphics engine turns out FIFA-esque and the UI is somehow just as accessible and usable - neither of which seems remotely likely - it will go down as a costly waste of time.

Realistically it seems like its to help them build the game across multiple platforms (computers/consoles) more than anything else.

[jmlima]

10 hours ago, Lord Rowell said:

...

Furthermore, and this is really important, I suspect porting FM25 player data back to FM24 and then formatting that for an update is not a simple task and will take many many human hours of work!

...

Don't know what SI have done but, MtG's database is vastly more complex and they run in unity the same db they did on their previous non-unity platform. (and probably still do since both versions are still in use)

[thomas_e]

10 hours ago, Dagenham_Dave said:

The amount of people who can't grasp this is astounding. 

 

 

That might be true. But it would be great if SI could just explain this, either in a post or in video, explaining the circumstances for the delay, and the reasons why its not an easy fix to publish a data update. I think people would prefer that over the current silent mode. 

Edited 1 hour ago by thomas_e

[scythian12]

40 minutes ago, jmlima said:

Don't know what SI have done but, MtG's database is vastly more complex and they run in unity the same db they did on their previous non-unity platform. (and probably still do since both versions are still in use)

If you mean Magic: the Gathering of Vast Amounts of Wealth for WoC, could you illuminate us how many cards they have and how many types of card effects?

[jmlima]

5 minutes ago, scythian12 said:

If you mean Magic: the Gathering of Vast Amounts of Wealth for WoC, could you illuminate us how many cards they have and how many types of card effects?

Sega Sammy had 33 billion yen profit last year. Not sure how 'vast amounts of wealth' does not apply to them. (also, when talking about wealth, you mean hasbro, not wotc) Counting cards is more than my time allows, but about 25k and the gods know how many different effects and interactions these days.