FM 25 DEVELOPMENT UPDATE

[kiwityke1983]

16 minutes ago, Brentford Alan said:

And if only 5.6% of the player base play the women's version of the game I dare say in a few years it'll be dropped as well.

5.6% of saves on PC...the actual percentage of players who played International Management is almost certainly far higher.

I've had 20+ saves I've started in FM24 and in only 3 of those did I manage an international team.

[Dbuk1]

20 minutes ago, themadsheep2001 said:

No. As ever it was a small group of people on the forum being loud for a little while. 

Or just Google fm25. It's the only talking point

[Kubix21800]

36 minutes ago, armbi said:

Cannot agree here. Last years releases looks just the same like for example Europa Universalis - cosmetic changes, no big new features, but you pay full price.

I agree about the full price thing, but Europa Universalis is a well over 10 year old game, with DLCs that you have it's a completely different game in comparison to the one that was released.

[Javier]

hace 20 minutos, Brentford Alan dijo:

 

There has been recruitment of researchers for the women's game, although some current men's team researchers may also take on the female side of their club as well. If they have (I really don't know if any at all have) I'm sure they've considered whether they can handle the extra responsibility before committing to the task.

Oh OK let's hope that's the case then.

[themadsheep2001]

9 minutes ago, Dbuk1 said:

Or just Google fm25. It's the only talking point

We weren't talking about FM25, it was a specific response to Brexit and Russia in FM just then so I'm not sure why i would google it tbh

[diLLa88]

You can tell from:

• The way FM24 never delivered on its promises and the abundance of (old and new) bugs
• The terrible development updates so far in terms of messaging and wording
• No screenshots or anything gameplay-related being released so far
• The lack of priority for features that the playerbase truly want (are FM players really more interested in women-leagues compared to international games?)
• The shift to a new engine that is apparently much harder than anticipated
• The delay they have done (which would probably be much more if they could, but they are bound to football seasons so they can't delay TOO much)

FM25 is going to be a diabolical disaster. 

[qwerty22]

32 minutes ago, themadsheep2001 said:

No. As ever it was a small group of people on the forum being loud for a little while. 

 

This is not a very nice thing to say about paying customers who care about the game

 

[themadsheep2001]

4 minutes ago, qwerty22 said:

 

This is not a very nice thing to say about paying customers who care about the game

 

The forum is a small group of the fanbase, it was a small group of the forum who repeatedly posted the same things over and over. That is objectively a small group of people being loud. Brexit moved on and Russia is still banned. Everytime something changes, some one will be unhappy, thats not controversial, thats pretty normal. 

Everyone who is on this forum cares about the game in some way otherwise they wouldnt be here. 

[Craigus89]

13 minutes ago, qwerty22 said:

 

This is not a very nice thing to say about paying customers who care about the game

Boo-****ing-hoo. People coming on here to complain in the manner they have been and seemingly just to stir the pot about non-issues should expect to be criticized and challenged. 

[whatsupdoc]

53 minutes ago, themadsheep2001 said:

Will sending United to knock you both off. 

I mean this is it isn't it. Minority fringe views complaining as if they speak for everyone.

[Dbuk1]

24 minutes ago, themadsheep2001 said:

We weren't talking about FM25, it was a specific response to Brexit and Russia in FM just then so I'm not sure why i would google it tbh

My mistake...I'm still on yesterdays watch

[qwerty22]

9 minutes ago, Craigus89 said:

Boo-****ing-hoo. People coming on here to complain in the manner they have been and seemingly just to stir the pot about non-issues should expect to be criticized and challenged. 

 

Tone *Aggressive*

 

[AdamFitz]

Others have made salient points about the ridiculousness of removing international manager, but to my mind what is the most annoying piece is that the fixes that would make it more attractive seem incredibly simple.

Firstly, allow for implementation of training like there is for club teams so players recover properly.

Secondly, adjust how a player reacts to being asked to represent another nation. As it is, players who will never represent their first country basically never choose to represent their second country, which is in stark contrast to real life.

That is literally it. Having international management as part of my save idea means I'll happily give FM25 a miss.

Edited September 5 by AdamFitz

[davehanson]

9 minutes ago, Craigus89 said:

Boo-****ing-hoo. People coming on here to complain in the manner they have been and seemingly just to stir the pot about non-issues should expect to be criticized and challenged. 

Non-issues to you maybe, issues to them non the less. Again - as long as criticism is done in a respectful way then there shouldn't be a problem. You being completely dismissive of peoples issues with the game just because they don't affect you is equal as bad as those raising ill thought out issues. 

 

[themadsheep2001]

13 minutes ago, Craigus89 said:

Boo-****ing-hoo. People coming on here to complain in the manner they have been and seemingly just to stir the pot about non-issues should expect to be criticized and challenged. 

I think thats a bit harsh to be fair. I think feedback as long as its constructive and respectful is good. 

Though it's fair to say not everyone here has adhered to that, which isnt great. 

[Fat_Frank8]

21 minutes ago, Craigus89 said:

Boo-****ing-hoo. People coming on here to complain in the manner they have been and seemingly just to stir the pot about non-issues should expect to be criticized and challenged. 

”Non-issues” coming from the guy who thinks displaying player weights on a football game is a gigantic issue due to body shaming. Are you for real?

[themadsheep2001]

Actually don't think ive posted my own personal thoughts.

It's probably not been the kind of updates SI would want to give, and it perhaps raises a Carlo Ancellotti eyebrow. That said, there was no way aiming to totally revamp the game was going to be either seamless or painless, and i personally appreciate the candor, though i would love to hear more technical details around issues

As someone who has repeatedly tried to play manage international football in FM and bounced off of it, good to see its being taken out to be redone. The disappointment will kick in if it doesnt hit the mark, or get close to it when it returns 

The weight "removal", honestly never have i ever cared so little about a change. Just personally can't see why it upsets people. Most clubs are terrible at having public information on it, it fluctuates (which the game doesnt model anyway) and it doesnt change the modelling of the game. 

Overall, i think the next reveal needs to hit a bit closer to the mark, but then if the honest communication is that its still not there that's what we need to hear, though my concerns would definitely increase 

[XaW]

5 minutes ago, themadsheep2001 said:

Actually don't think ive posted my own personal thoughts.

It's probably not been the kind of updates SI would want to give, and it perhaps raises a Carlo Ancellotti eyebrow. That said, there was no way aiming to totally revamp the game was going to be either seamless or painless, and i personally appreciate the candor, though i would love to hear more technical details around issues

As someone who has repeatedly tried to play manage international football in FM and bounced off of it, good to see its being taken out to be redone. The disappointment will kick in if it doesnt hit the mark, or get close to it when it returns 

The weight "removal", honestly never have i ever cared so little about a change. Just personally can't see why it upsets people. Most clubs are terrible at having public information on it, it fluctuates (which the game doesnt model anyway) and it doesnt change the modelling of the game. 

Overall, i think the next reveal needs to hit a bit closer to the mark, but then if the honest communication is that its still not there that's what we need to hear, though my concerns would definitely increase 

Sums up my thoughts well.

I also think we know far too little about the actual game to judge how it will be, so other people who are really only interested in international management or women's football, none of us can say with any confidence how we will like the game when more news come out.

[Craigus89]

8 minutes ago, Fat_Frank8 said:

”Non-issues” coming from the guy who thinks displaying player weights on a football game is a gigantic issue due to body shaming. Are you for real?

When have I said I think it's a big issue? I think it is the smallest of non-issues, it couldn't be less important. What I think is a big issue is that the forum seems to have a significant number of users who feel they are having some woke agenda thrust upon them because they won't be able to see how much a female footballer weighs in a computer game. 

If you actually read the thread though, you would see I was referring to some very specific complaints that were aired in the past. But don't let the context stop you from wading in to shake your fists at the sky with the other loons.

[john1982]

I am excited for FM25 just to see the new 3d match engine with unity... one my biggest let downs in previous FMs is how outdated the 3d engine seems for 2024. I dont care if some features are cut for now, if the match experience is much much better. I am waiting to see how games look. And to be honest I dont remember any time I managed international team..

[Novem9]

17 часов назад, Os сказал:

Was I the only one who found Nick Maddens departure disturbing?

Wait... WHAT???  

Damn, this is really sad news. Not only is he a hard-working developer who genuinely listened to opinions and bug reports, but he's also a great conversationalist who found a way to discuss tactics and IRL football. If anyone is in touch with Nick, please give him my regards and best wishes.

 

Looks like it is a true https://community.sports-interactive.com/profile/262855-nic-madden/

No SI emblem on avatar

[XaW]

7 minutes ago, Novem9 said:

Wait... WHAT???  

Damn, this is really sad news. Not only is he a hard-working developer who genuinely listened to opinions and bug reports, but he's also a great conversationalist who found a way to discuss tactics and IRL football. If anyone is in touch with Nick, please give him my regards and best wishes.

 

Looks like it is a true https://community.sports-interactive.com/profile/262855-nic-madden/

No SI emblem on avatar

Happened in March.

https://twitter.com/NicMadden3/status/1773348127442948440

[xkvicd]

25 minutes ago, themadsheep2001 said:

Actually don't think ive posted my own personal thoughts.

It's probably not been the kind of updates SI would want to give, and it perhaps raises a Carlo Ancellotti eyebrow. That said, there was no way aiming to totally revamp the game was going to be either seamless or painless, and i personally appreciate the candor, though i would love to hear more technical details around issues

As someone who has repeatedly tried to play manage international football in FM and bounced off of it, good to see its being taken out to be redone. The disappointment will kick in if it doesnt hit the mark, or get close to it when it returns 

The weight "removal", honestly never have i ever cared so little about a change. Just personally can't see why it upsets people. Most clubs are terrible at having public information on it, it fluctuates (which the game doesnt model anyway) and it doesnt change the modelling of the game. 

Overall, i think the next reveal needs to hit a bit closer to the mark, but then if the honest communication is that its still not there that's what we need to hear, though my concerns would definitely increase 

I pretty much agree. International management will never be fun due to the nature of how it works. Weight? Who cares.

What I would add is that Miles' remarks about him canceling holidays and about not going to conferences are pointless. Like why did he wrote that? Almost feels like a guilt trip - "see, I canceled my holiday now don't criticize my game".

[santy001]

In general terms while FM doesn't have a "top tier" football management competitor of years gone by, Steam definitely has a greater number of games that are in that category (I've just stumbled across 8 when steam was listing games I may like due to playing "economy" based games) than historically there used to be. FM doesn't target the AAA price point of £60 but it does have a higher price than the other games I saw and while many of us as establish FM players wouldn't likely be drawn in by that I can expect a fair number would be. 

But as you can see in here, even some of the people mentioning FM doesn't have a competitor in the same posts mention how they'll stick to playing Paradox Interactive games. Can't speak for everyone but when it comes down to it FM competes for my time alongside games like CK3, Vic 3, Civ, Cities Skylines etc. It also has to compete for my attention with TV series and other things I could be doing. FM likely has a predominantly working, adult player base who don't get huge amounts of free time to allocate a decent amount to just "football management games" and the competition FM has for my time and attention now is way greater than 15 years ago as a younger adult. 

[Novem9]

1 минуту назад, XaW сказал:

Happened in March.

https://twitter.com/NicMadden3/status/1773348127442948440

You understand, I don't really keep my finger on the pulse and can visit the forum with breaks of several months. And I don't sit on social networks at all. It was just one of the developers of my favorite game, with whom I actually had pleasant conversations about football. It is clear that this is just a small thing, but these are the events when you understand that things will never be like before 

[santy001]

2 minutes ago, xkvicd said:

What I would add is that Miles' remarks about him canceling holidays and about not going to conferences are pointless. Like why did he wrote that? Almost feels like a guilt trip - "see, I canceled my holiday now don't criticize my game".

I would argue that's more a case of him pointing out he is giving up things to help get this out as soon as possible so that the argument isn't "Well if they knew it wasn't going to hit their initial deadline, why did Miles still do XYZ"

Things which need his attention or input, or even a final yes/no ruling in terms of whether to go ahead can be answered quicker that way than he's out until Monday come back then.

[Fat_Frank8]

20 minutes ago, Craigus89 said:

When have I said I think it's a big issue? 

19 hours ago, omerrath said:

they will not say it, but I’m sure they taking it out to avoid body shaming of women’s weight 

19 hours ago, Craigus89 said:

The bold is exactly why they are removing it, and do you want to tell us why that's a bad thing? Let me guess, because woke?

 

Right there. I assume you think the decision to remove it to avoid body shaming is good. That implies you think body shaming because of weights being displayed in a football game is an issue. In another reply you say it couldn't be less important and in yet another one it's just to trim sh*t from the game. Which is it?

And once again you have missed the point completely. The point is it's immersion breaking not being able to se the male footballer's weights in a football game supposed to simulate reality. Couldn't care less if the women's weights are included or not. 

And just to be clear, I have no problem what so ever with women's football being included in the game. The problem I have is the priority it has. How can it be prioritized to work for years to include it over making sure an existing feature of managing international football teams at least not disappears from the game? My opinion is that it's just pathetic box ticking.

 

[forameuss]

 

3 minutes ago, Fat_Frank8 said:

The point is it's immersion breaking not being able to se the male footballer's weights in a football game

Deary me...

We're definitely watching the shark sail by underneath us now.

[davehanson]

20 minutes ago, santy001 said:

In general terms while FM doesn't have a "top tier" football management competitor of years gone by, Steam definitely has a greater number of games that are in that category (I've just stumbled across 8 when steam was listing games I may like due to playing "economy" based games) than historically there used to be. FM doesn't target the AAA price point of £60 but it does have a higher price than the other games I saw and while many of us as establish FM players wouldn't likely be drawn in by that I can expect a fair number would be. 

But as you can see in here, even some of the people mentioning FM doesn't have a competitor in the same posts mention how they'll stick to playing Paradox Interactive games. Can't speak for everyone but when it comes down to it FM competes for my time alongside games like CK3, Vic 3, Civ, Cities Skylines etc. It also has to compete for my attention with TV series and other things I could be doing. FM likely has a predominantly working, adult player base who don't get huge amounts of free time to allocate a decent amount to just "football management games" and the competition FM has for my time and attention now is way greater than 15 years ago as a younger adult. 

See, for me it is totally the other way round. Maybe because my time playing Football Management sims goes back a lot further, not sure?

 

The Manager

Premier Manager

Fifa Manager

One-Nil-Soccer Manager

Total Club Manager

LMA Manager

Ultimate Soccer Manager

Tracksuit Manager (Plus there was at least one later version)

Football Director

Sensible Soccer (this had a limited management mode, but still played it quite a bit)

Then the split with Eidos and you had Championship Manager and Football Manager for 2 years competing against each other

 

For me there were a lot more enjoyable football management sims in years gone by.

[RandomGuy.]

2 hours ago, Brentford Alan said:

 

Sigh, international football has not been dropped, being able to control an international team is taking a year hiatus so they can develop a much better mode as requested by the community for a long long time.

Why does it need dropped entirely to do this though?

You yourself admit its been poorly implemented for years, yet you still get almost half a million people playing it every year.

Why not just give them the option of it being poorly implemented, but available, for another year while you work on it? It's been as basic as it can be so anything they improve will be in addition to that rather than replacing it anyway.

It's just baffling to me to remove the option for people to play it entirely when it doesn't need removed to be improved.

[Fat_Frank8]

4 minutes ago, forameuss said:

 

Deary me...

We're definitely watching the shark sail by underneath us now.

Impressive that you wouldn't even quote the entire sentence. Do you think every player should have the exact same proportions in the 3D as well? All 180 cm players the exact same size? If you do, fine. If you don't, please explain why. 

[santy001]

19 minutes ago, davehanson said:

See, for me it is totally the other way round. Maybe because my time playing Football Management sims goes back a lot further, not sure?

Well considering things like Total Club Manager was the predecessor to Fifa Manager there was never a time at which those two were available concurrently. The last time I played a Sensible Soccer manager game was maybe 1993 or 1994 maybe 95 at an absolute push. So that was long dead by the time TCM/Fifa Manager came on the scene.

Premier Manager was like 97-2002, LMA Manager like 99-2007 but I'd argue after 2002 it had stopped competing. If USM is the game I'm thinking of it had like 2 releases didn't it between like 98 and 2000? 

I don't recognise the other names, but Champ Manager aside which you mention only had its 2 year run after the split most of those games were distinctly different points in time and it was probably only 1998-2002* that there were close to as many competing titles as you can buy on Steam right now.

*Outside of that 1 year a whole bunch of club specific "manager" games popped up which all came from the same developer. I would argue that they were the same game though.

[themadsheep2001]

6 minutes ago, RandomGuy. said:

Why does it need dropped entirely to do this though?

You yourself admit its been poorly implemented for years, yet you still get almost half a million people playing it every year.

Why not just give them the option of it being poorly implemented, but available, for another year while you work on it? It's been as basic as it can be so anything they improve will be in addition to that rather than replacing it anyway.

It's just baffling to me to remove the option for people to play it entirely when it doesn't need removed to be improved.

Because it needs to be. Everything has to ported into Unity, which takes time and resources and people power -Why port something they want to revamp entirely? You moght not agree but i see their logic: why waste time and resources implementing it into FM25, when they can get to work right now on it coming back for FM26 bigger and better. Its not an option because its not really a choice for the userbase to make. 

[angelo994]

I also find it a bit worrying that Miles seems to think Development update means "this is what we're removing from the game". Why not also share something new or exiting for the next game as well. The last few months have been feature after feature that have been removed, for one reason or another. 

It's bizarre. They are actively creating anti-hype for FM25. 

Edited September 5 by angelo994

[Brentford Alan]

Just now, RandomGuy. said:

Why does it need dropped entirely to do this though?

You yourself admit its been poorly implemented for years, yet you still get almost half a million people playing it every year.

Why not just give them the option of it being poorly implemented, but available, for another year while you work on it? It's been as basic as it can be so anything they improve will be in addition to that rather than replacing it anyway.

It's just baffling to me to remove the option for people to play it entirely when it doesn't need removed to be improved.

I assume due to the level of work required to port it over to the new engine just to rip it all out and start again in a few months time (not to mention the 'knock on effect' risk of including code that has only 1 years use). And thats not to say its one or the other between this and women's football being implemented, I'm sure there are plenty of other yet to be revealed new features that time has been allocated to work on.

[Craigus89]

16 minutes ago, Fat_Frank8 said:

 

Right there. I assume you think the decision to remove it to avoid body shaming is good. That implies you think body shaming because of weights being displayed in a football game is an issue. In another reply you say it couldn't be less important and in yet another one it's just to trim sh*t from the game. Which is it?

And once again you have missed the point completely. The point is it's immersion breaking not being able to se the male footballer's weights in a football game supposed to simulate reality. Couldn't care less if the women's weights are included or not. 

And just to be clear, I have no problem what so ever with women's football being included in the game. The problem I have is the priority it has. How can it be prioritized to work for years to include it over making sure an existing feature of managing international football teams at least not disappears from the game? My opinion is that it's just pathetic box ticking.

 

Good job showing where I said it's a "gigantic issue". Where was that again? 

Quote

 

"In another reply you say it couldn't be less important and in yet another one it's just to trim sh*t from the game. Which is it?"

 

Both, where is the contradiction exactly?

To be clear, I think it is good to remove it if there is a chance it could cause problems. As I've said many times now, it adds nothing to the game to be able to see a players weight, so nothing has been lost from the game as it is still operational under the hood as SI have confirmed, and it carries the potential of avoiding making people feel bad.

The only people who feel its a big problem have failed to demonstrate why. 

[themadsheep2001]

21 minutes ago, Fat_Frank8 said:

 

Right there. I assume you think the decision to remove it to avoid body shaming is good. That implies you think body shaming because of weights being displayed in a football game is an issue. In another reply you say it couldn't be less important and in yet another one it's just to trim sh*t from the game. Which is it?

And once again you have missed the point completely. The point is it's immersion breaking not being able to se the male footballer's weights in a football game supposed to simulate reality. Couldn't care less if the women's weights are included or not. 

And just to be clear, I have no problem what so ever with women's football being included in the game. The problem I have is the priority it has. How can it be prioritized to work for years to include it over making sure an existing feature of managing international football teams at least not disappears from the game? My opinion is that it's just pathetic box ticking.

 

The actual issue here is you're assuming womens football being prioritised over international football. There a loads of features that will be in that will take time and resources.

The actual issue here is Unity. They are using Unity as a chance to rebuild entire elements. Womens football is being built with Unity in mind. International football needs to be rebuilt to make it a much better module. Do better than calling "pathetic box ticking" because thats insulting. 

[CaptainSa]

48.5% of players in the database have a weight figure of 0, for those who might be wondering how accurate the weight shown in game might be. And we're not talking obscure players from the Singapore league either. Noni Madueke has 0 weight. Nico Williams has 0 weight. Lutsharel Geertruida has 0 weight. Anthony Gordon has 0 weight.

[davehanson]

6 minutes ago, themadsheep2001 said:

Because it needs to be. Everything has to ported into Unity, which takes time and resources and people power -Why port something they want to revamp entirely? You moght not agree but i see their logic: why waste time and resources implementing it into FM25, when they can get to work right now on it coming back for FM26 bigger and better. Its not an option because its not really a choice for the userbase to make. 

But it is being ‘ported’ anyway - just as a view only. The game will still process the international scene.

So then the question is, and nobody here will answer because it is safe to assume nobody is working on a unity engine, how difficult is it to make it playable rather than view only. I can assume difficult by their decision to drop it.

However, the more I read the statement by SI/Miles it seems they had to make a choice as to what part to drop as they couldn’t finish everything. They made the decision to drop international management in favour of other existing modes and new features. And that decision was based on the amount of people that played International Management I would say. Seemingly willing to ignore the fact that a small % (relatively spekaing) played that mode because they had done nothing with it for years.

[fc.cadoni]

2 minutes ago, CaptainSa said:

48.5% of players in the database have a weight figure of 0, for those who might be wondering how accurate the weight shown in game might be. And we're not talking obscure players from the Singapore league either. Noni Madueke has 0 weight. Nico Williams has 0 weight. Lutsharel Geertruida has 0 weight. Anthony Gordon has 0 weight.

0 in database is for random number. When you start a new save, then a random number will be generated. It's on other fields as well.

[davehanson]

7 minutes ago, Craigus89 said:

Good job showing where I said it's a "gigantic issue". Where was that again? 

Both, where is the contradiction exactly?

To be clear, I think it is good to remove it if there is a chance it could cause problems. As I've said many times now, it adds nothing to the game to be able to see a players weight, so nothing has been lost from the game as it is still operational under the hood as SI have confirmed, and it carries the potential of avoiding making people feel bad.

The only people who feel its a big problem have failed to demonstrate why. 

Likewise it adds nothing to the game to show height either. Height from my understanding has zero effect on gameplay. 
 

By the way - I have never used weight in anyway, so I have no axe to grind when it comes to them removing it at all. If others do - as long as their reasoning is sound- that is their choice

[themadsheep2001]

8 minutes ago, davehanson said:

But it is being ‘ported’ anyway - just as a view only. The game will still process the international scene.

So then the question is, and nobody here will answer because it is safe to assume nobody is working on a unity engine, how difficult is it to make it playable rather than view only. I can assume difficult by their decision to drop it.

However, the more I read the statement by SI/Miles it seems they had to make a choice as to what part to drop as they couldn’t finish everything. They made the decision to drop international management in favour of other existing modes and new features. And that decision was based on the amount of people that played International Management I would say. Seemingly willing to ignore the fact that a small % (relatively spekaing) played that mode because they had done nothing with it for years.

They arent ignoring it though, thats why its being revamped because nothing has been done for years. 

Id like to hear more technical information around the issue, but the bottom line for me is this: if the best way to get proper, really good international football model in FM26 is to take it out of FM25, and overall that does the least "harm" then thats what they should do. Upto everyone else to individually decide whether they agree or not. But definitely shouldn't be their decision.

[santy001]

Just now, davehanson said:

Likewise it adds nothing to the game to show height either. Height from my understanding has zero effect on gameplay. 

Height used to be that way, but it is actually used as a calculation on jumping and what to do with aerial balls. As different attributes are used when a player is airborne versus on the ground competing it results in different outcomes for physical contests for an aerial ball. 

A 6'8" player might not need to jump in the first place for a ball compared to a 6'1" player for example. 

[CaptainSa]

1 minute ago, fc.cadoni said:

0 in database is for random number. When you start a new save, then a random number will be generated. It's on other fields as well.

I'm aware, but probably should've said that. But it does speak further to the general inaccuracy of the stat as it is in the game that already exists - of players that do have weights in the database, we don't and likely can't know how accurate those are due to the lack of reliable sources, and almost half of all players in the database don't have weights at all, meaning the game will randomly generate a number for them, again, with nothing like the accuracy you get from heights or footedness or age or other useful, less subjective stats than attributes are.

[RandomGuy.]

18 minutes ago, themadsheep2001 said:

Because it needs to be. Everything has to ported into Unity, which takes time and resources and people power -Why port something they want to revamp entirely? You moght not agree but i see their logic: why waste time and resources implementing it into FM25, when they can get to work right now on it coming back for FM26 bigger and better. Its not an option because its not really a choice for the userbase to make. 

 

15 minutes ago, Brentford Alan said:

I assume due to the level of work required to port it over to the new engine just to rip it all out and start again in a few months time (not to mention the 'knock on effect' risk of including code that has only 1 years use). And thats not to say its one or the other between this and women's football being implemented, I'm sure there are plenty of other yet to be revealed new features that time has been allocated to work on.

This is where I'm confused.

What extra work is needed for International management compared to club management?

Squad registrations will be in. Playing/watching matches will be in. AI selecting other International squads will be in. International tournaments/rules will be in.

What else was there that was part of International management that won't be part of FM25 club management?

It feels totally bizarre to me that they'd rather block off International management altogether rather than have the basic version we've had previously with the promise it's being worked on.

There's no logic in it at all that I can find.

[Brentford Alan]

2 minutes ago, RandomGuy. said:

 

This is where I'm confused.

What extra work is needed for International management compared to club management?

Squad registrations will be in. Playing/watching matches will be in. AI selecting other International squads will be in. International tournaments/rules will be in.

What else was there that was part of International management that won't be part of FM25 club management?

It feels totally bizarre to me that they'd rather block off International management altogether rather than have the basic version we've had previously with the promise it's being worked on.

There's no logic in it at all that I can find.

A question for those involved in working on it, I can't believe they'd leave it out if it was an easy fix to port over and then remove though, regardless of low usage. I may of course be wrong.

[santy001]

4 minutes ago, RandomGuy. said:

It feels totally bizarre to me that they'd rather block off International management altogether rather than have the basic version we've had previously with the promise it's being worked on.

There's no logic in it at all that I can find.

Two quick and simple examples I can think of right off the bat are when they first tried bringing it across, it wasn't working correctly. What the AI is doing is fine, or can be handled within the game, but with a player there's things which aren't working right and need time allocating to resolve. That time isn't available. 

Secondly, QA testing. This year is likely the biggest demand on QA yet considering the change and there isn't the scope to test it properly even if they believe they could fix issues and offer the FM24 International management in FM25. 

These are simple things that come to mind for me, there is likely much more complexity and nuance to it. 

[davehanson]

10 minutes ago, santy001 said:

Height used to be that way, but it is actually used as a calculation on jumping and what to do with aerial balls. As different attributes are used when a player is airborne versus on the ground competing it results in different outcomes for physical contests for an aerial ball. 

A 6'8" player might not need to jump in the first place for a ball compared to a 6'1" player for example. 

Right. So height is applicable if neither player has jumped for a ball? If they are both on the ground then the likehood is the taller player will win the header?

If they both jump then jumping reach (I would assume and strength probably plays a part) determine who wins a header?

[XaW]

1 minute ago, davehanson said:

Right. So height is applicable if neither player has jumped for a ball? If they are both on the ground then the likehood is the taller player will win the header?

If they both jump then jumping reach (I would assume and strength probably plays a part) determine who wins a header?

Or the taller can reach without jumping, but the shorter would need to jump, so there won't be an areal duel unless the short one can pop in front of the tall one. So height has a smal advantage in that regard, and is a feature in the match.

[davehanson]

31 minutes ago, santy001 said:

Well considering things like Total Club Manager was the predecessor to Fifa Manager there was never a time at which those two were available concurrently. The last time I played a Sensible Soccer manager game was maybe 1993 or 1994 maybe 95 at an absolute push. So that was long dead by the time TCM/Fifa Manager came on the scene.

Premier Manager was like 97-2002, LMA Manager like 99-2007 but I'd argue after 2002 it had stopped competing. If USM is the game I'm thinking of it had like 2 releases didn't it between like 98 and 2000? 

I don't recognise the other names, but Champ Manager aside which you mention only had its 2 year run after the split most of those games were distinctly different points in time and it was probably only 1998-2002* that there were close to as many competing titles as you can buy on Steam right now.

*Outside of that 1 year a whole bunch of club specific "manager" games popped up which all came from the same developer. I would argue that they were the same game though.

No, you are right, very few of these ran alongside each other. But you would have a new one pop up every few years to either take over or provide competition and one would win.

I would say now that it would be so difficult for anything to compare to FM due to the database etc that anyone starting now would instantly loose money for 3 or 4 years whilst trying to break a stranglehold - and we all know that developers and publishing houses are not going to do that.