The Final: Spain vs England live from the Olympiastadion, Berlin. BBC1 AND ITV1. Sunday 8pm

[sc91]

Southgate with his inability to actually pick a player cost you that. Sooner you are rid, the better.

[sc91]

You'll be the final for the WC, the nucleus of England is insane. That you ****ed it twice is down to the manager.

[TM]

with the right manager, England are definitely one of the favourites for the next World Cup

maybe that will be where it all clicks?

[skybluedave]

2 minutes ago, ajw10 said:

Bellingham being moved out wide so Foden could contribute nothing? What a manager Gareth Southgate is.

We will never win anything under Southgate. I fear this is it for England competing 

I don't have too much faith in the FA getting a (much) better manager in. I get the impression they don't have their fingers on the pulse much. Southgate should go and I know people think 'anyone' is better the Southgate but I reckon the FA will give it a good go is showing that might not be the case. 

[ajw10]

Just now, skybluedave said:

I don't have too much faith in the FA getting a (much) better manager in. I get the impression they don't have their fingers on the pulse much. Southgate should go and I know people think 'anyone' is better the Southgate but I reckon the FA will give it a good go is showing that might not be the case. 

The FA is pathetic. They'll keep Southgate, we'll be knocked out in the quarters and we will be grateful

[Redshift]

5 minutes ago, Icy said:

Why is Bellingham playing left sided? he is not fast enough to play there.

Because he didn't bring Rashford.

[silentwars]

Just now, TM said:

with the right manager, England are definitely one of the favourites for the next World Cup

maybe that will be where it all clicks?

Surely at some point our luck with the draws will run out. It's hard to imagine us getting to the final if we'd had to beat both Germany & France.

[TalkSport]

19 minutes ago, TM said:

played years of FM and even I can't figure this one out

why are Mainoo, Foden and Kane in the same place

Look at that left side compared to Spain. Just no width on one side  

[enigmatic]

8 minutes ago, ajw10 said:

Bellingham being moved out wide so Foden could contribute nothing? What a manager Gareth Southgate is.

We will never win anything under Southgate. I fear this is it for England competing 

Should have played Foden wide and Bellingham in the middle contributing nothing like the previous games so that people could complain about that imho (they were both in basically the same position until we subbed on Palmer....)

 

[TM]

1 minute ago, Redshift said:

Because he didn't bring Rashford.

or play Gordon who might have been a better idea

[av3ry]

I knew it. Got the scoreline, time if the goal and the goal scorer wrong but just knew Spain was going to win it. 

Roll on the 11th August and North America 2026.

[ajw10]

1 minute ago, enigmatic said:

Should have played Foden wide and Bellingham in the middle contributing nothing like the previous games so that people could complain about that imho (they were both in basically the same position until we subbed on Palmer....)

 

could have dropped Foden/Kane like I said in the group stage. This side lacked proper runners, it was obvious to anyone 

[Coulthard's Jaw]

16 minutes ago, TalkSport said:

 

I enjoyed watching them at times but that feels a little over the top  

[eenie]

4 minutes ago, Coulthard's Jaw said:

I enjoyed watching them at times but that feels a little over the top  

First tweet is definitely a bit OTT, yeah  But they've been the best team in the competition by a margin, imho, and I think they've generally been pretty good to watch too.

[Wiggins Top Boys]

We've become serious contenders in tournaments even when we are **** so fair play to Gareth for doing that but now it's time to move on. We are no longer a joke like we were under the golden generation and it's time to see if someone else can make the most of that 

[eenie]

1 minute ago, Wiggins Top Boys said:

We've become serious contenders in tournaments even when we are **** so fair play to Gareth for doing that but now it's time to move on. We are no longer a joke like we were under the golden generation and it's time to see if someone else can make the most of that 

I think even under Southgate absolutely no-one wants to have to play England, you're rightly one of the favourites based on depth of talent.

[themadsheep2001]

Firstly, congratulations to Spain, worthy winners and absolutely the best side in the competition.

Gutted doesnt really cover it.  So much talent and potential tactically hamstrung all tournament, and arguably last two years, results aside. Some odd selections and too often a complete inability to react to obvious issues hampered us too often. Southgate has done a great job in many ways, but his inability to adapt means another missed opportunity, and the absolute weirdness from his diehard supporters to see what was clear to pretty much everyone else in Europe was utterly frustrating. Had we adapted to these better, we might have ended up on the right side of the scoreline. Thanks for everything but perhaps time for a change 

[enigmatic]

18 minutes ago, ajw10 said:

could have dropped Foden/Kane like I said in the group stage. This side lacked proper runners, it was obvious to anyone 

We conceded the winner after subbing Kane off for a runner.

I'm very pro runners especially with Kane up front and would have taken Rashford as an option despite watching him all season (IIRC dropping the experienced runners was one of the most popular decisions Gareth ever made...) but that wasn't the reason Spain scored more goals today.

 

16 minutes ago, Coulthard's Jaw said:

I enjoyed watching them at times but that feels a little over the top  

The praise is fully merited. Won all their games which virtually never happens in tournament football, had at least on paper an unusually hard run of games in doing it and are an incredibly well balanced and difficult side to play against even if you can point to players in their lineup that aren't exceptional. And yeah, I've watched a lot of Spain minutes where they didn't look that great, including a reasonable portion of the game today.

We've invented this mythical standard of international football where nobody has 45 minutes of dominating possession whilst looking completely toothless or drops too deep when the other side throws everything at them or concedes an opening goal to a minnow. Ironically mostly to bash ourselves.

Edited July 14 by enigmatic

[av3ry]

The local football club and the town next to mine had a power cut at the start of the game 

[silentwars]

5 minutes ago, av3ry said:

The local football club and the town next to mine had a power cut at the start of the game 

Good job they didn't miss much ... anything in fact

Edited July 14 by silentwars

[Baptista_8]

Feel so deflated after that 😫

[sc91]

9 minutes ago, themadsheep2001 said:

Firstly, congratulations to Spain, worthy winners and absolutely the best side in the competition.

Gutted doesnt really cover it.  So much talent and potential tactically hamstrung all tournament, and arguably last two years, results aside. Some odd selections and too often a complete inability to react to obvious issues hampered us too often. Southgate has done a great job in many ways, but his inability to adapt means another missed opportunity, and the absolute weirdness from his diehard supporters to see what was clear to pretty much everyone else in Europe was utterly frustrating. Had we adapted to these better, we might have ended up on the right side of the scoreline. Thanks for everything but perhaps time for a change 

I'd say this was the worst of the bunch, Spain were so vulnerable and available and frankly you lost was one of 'how the ****?', moments.

[ajw10]

13 minutes ago, enigmatic said:

We conceded the winner after subbing Kane off for a runner.

Wasn't it 1-0 Spain when he went off?

[Coulthard's Jaw]

1 minute ago, ajw10 said:

Wasn't it 1-0 Spain when he went off?

Yes. Watkins was the first sub, Palmer the second.

[titchuk]

Gutted, for me feels worse than 2021 because I really did feel we could/should win whereas back then it felt a bit more of a free hit. 

Spain were good, we had spells and moments but didn't perform for too long periods. Would need to watch it back but felt like we didnt really know what to do after we equalised, felt like Gareth was caught in two minds as to whether to stick with the attacking or revert back to the normal plan.

Maybe we'll watch us win something in our lifetimes. 

[eenie]

1 minute ago, titchuk said:

Gutted, for me feels worse than 2021 because I really did feel we could/should win whereas back then it felt a bit more of a free hit. 

Spain were good, we had spells and moments but didn't perform for too long periods. Would need to watch it back but felt like we didnt really know what to do after we equalised, felt like Gareth was caught in two minds as to whether to stick with the attacking or revert back to the normal plan.

Maybe we'll watch us win something in our lifetimes. 

In hindsight 2021 was the one you should have won, whereas this was a longer shot.

[sc91]

1 minute ago, eenie said:

In hindsight 2021 was the one you should have won, whereas this was a longer shot.

Outside looking in, this is the one they should have won. Spain were poor.

[eenie]

Just now, sc91 said:

Outside looking in, this is the one they should have won. Spain were poor.

They were?

Spain were the better side by a margin imho.

[enigmatic]

13 minutes ago, ajw10 said:

Wasn't it 1-0 Spain when he went off?

It was. Point is, the runner was on for half an hour and (through no fault of his own) didn't get in behind once. 

In that time we scored a shot from distance in a move which didn't involve the runner and more importantly failed to stop the opposition scoring the winner which would appear to be the actual reason we lost

Seems odd to conclude it would have been different if only we'd had him on the pitch for longer

 

 

Edited July 14 by enigmatic

[PaulHartman71]

I don't get what the tactic or the plan was tonight. 

If the plan was to play a low block and hit them on the break then he should have dropped Kane and Foden and played Watkins and Palmer from the start. Kane offered absolutely nothing, when Watkins came on and started pressing Simon we actually looked like we were troubling Spain, but weirdly once Palmer scored we seemed to stop doing that completely again.

I watch Arsenal play against a lot of low blocks and the effective ones essentially close down the channels so Martinelli/Saka can't do anything out wide and we just end up passing it aimlessly unable to get a cross or a forward ball in, but it was like we were playing a low block but still just letting Spain's wingers get in if they wanted to, so it didn't really make much sense.

Rice/Mainoo as a midfield just doesn't work. I think Mainoo is a good player but he's out of his depth at this level in a double pivot, it's almost unfair to be playing him in a game like this IMO as I've seen a lot of people criticising him for having a **** game, but he's not capable of doing what England/Rice needs him to do. We may never know if Rice/Wharton is a better combination, but based on what people have said about how Wharton plays I feel like that combination would work even if Mainoo is the better player to Wharton. Rice hasn't had a good tournament but it's like Southgate doesn't understand what Rice is actually good at, I don't know if it was masked by Maguire's passing in past tournaments, but he's looked **** for much of the tournament because he's being asked to play the role Jorginho has been playing for him all season.

I don't really know why we changed from the 3 at the back formation we used in the Semi Final against the Dutch as I thought that worked pretty well.

I don't get why Bellingham was out wide at all.

Foden was anonymous again after having a pretty good game in the Semi Final.

Pickford just smashing balls up the whole game was pointless when Kane wasn't winning anything and 2 of our 4 most forward players are Saka and Foden who are short and not good in the air.

It was just a mess overall. 

[TM]

5 minutes ago, sc91 said:

Outside looking in, this is the one they should have won. Spain were poor.

unless you were watching a different match, Spain were in control for the majority of the game

probably could have won by more with better finishing

[skybluedave]

Yeah not having that. Spain much better then Italy. Italy (and us) created nothing in that final. Spain lot of good chances in 2nd half tonight. I can't remember anything Italy did except the goal

[PaulHartman71]

I don't think it would have mattered as I think Southgate would have started Walker no matter what, but if White had been playing on the right with Saka I think we'd have looked better too.

Grealish and Rashford obviously had **** seasons, but both would've been more effective even as subs than what we had on the left hand side. I can only assume he didn't trust/rate Gordon, in which case you might as well just take Grealish, Rashford or even Sterling.

[enigmatic]

3 minutes ago, sc91 said:

Outside looking in, this is the one they should have won. Spain were poor.

They were a lot better than Italy in 2020

(or for that matter France in 2021 or Croatia in 2018)

Only team ever to win seven games at a Euros in normal time too, and whilst none of the teams they've beaten have performed brilliantly I don't think you can argue they've had an easy draw.

[Darren Moores Mum]

Spain controlled possession but I don't think they looked good going forward. We didn't have much of answer when we did have the ball though 

It was another final that completely passed us by, like the last one. Just poor.

Edited July 14 by Darren Moores Mum

[sc91]

18 minutes ago, eenie said:

They were?

Spain were the better side by a margin imho.

Really? That backline faltered immediately when they had a threat in number 9. No coincidence that once Watkins was on that Spain were open. They had 60 minutes of a training game vs Harry Kane. 

[Pukey]

Definitely need to fix the left hand side and the midfield for the world cup. Balance just not there. I hope Archie Gray develops well at Tottenham as his level of composure would have been massive for helping keep the ball at points (absolutely not suggesting he should have gone obviously, but a player with his skillset and more top level experience would have been handy is what I mean, so hopefully that develops in the next 2 years.) Not really seen much of Wharton but from what I've heard he's the kind of player we could do with as well. We're a bit too frantic and unstructured at times.

I think it's time for Southgate as well, he's done a million times better than I thought, but we need someone now who can take us that extra step and I just don't think it's him. But, tbf, I really don't know what options there are.

[sc91]

15 minutes ago, TM said:

unless you were watching a different match, Spain were in control for the majority of the game

probably could have won by more with better finishing

Each to their own, I'll sit in neutrality but England *let* Spain control that.

[Astafjevs]

Feel like people watched a different game. Yamal had a chance that he should have done better with (one that curled straight at Pickford); Olmo had a chance shortly after the 1-0 that he should have done better with (scuffed it wide); Yamal had another that forced a decent Pickford save.

We're not talking absolute sitters or 1v1s, but on another night they might take one of those.

[PaulHartman71]

1 minute ago, sc91 said:

Each to their own, I'll sit in neutrality but England *let* Spain control that.

This is the thing I’m most annoyed about. 

If we played like we played against the Dutch in the Semi or the Quarter Final against France in the World Cup and we just got outplayed, then fine. 

But our actual tactic at least in the first half and until Kane went off was to let Spain have the ball as much as they liked without any real press at all until they got to our box. 

On another night they’ve would’ve won it 3-0 as if you give a side like that the possession and time to think on the ball of course they’re going to create chances. 

[PaulHartman71]

By not pressing until our own box it meant whenever we did win the ball Bellingham, Mainoo or Saka were required to take on like 2-3 guys before creating a chance or we just had to recycle the ball or pass to Pickford who just booted it long for Spain to win the ball back. 

I don’t think we could’ve played a tactic that played into Spain’s hands more. 

 

[Coulthard's Jaw]

5 minutes ago, Astafjevs said:

Feel like people watched a different game. Yamal had a chance that he should have done better with (one that curled straight at Pickford); Olmo had a chance shortly after the 1-0 that he should have done better with (scuffed it wide); Yamal had another that forced a decent Pickford save.

We're not talking absolute sitters or 1v1s, but on another night they might take one of those.

They were getting in some great positions as well where if the England player doesn't win the header or make a big challenge they had an overload going on.

[sc91]

Just now, PaulHartman71 said:

This is the thing I’m most annoyed about. 

If we played like we played against the Dutch in the Semi or the Quarter Final against France in the World Cup and we just got outplayed, then fine. 

But our actual tactic at least in the first half and until Kane went off was to let Spain have the ball as much as they liked without any real press at all until they got to our box. 

On another night they’ve would’ve won it 3-0 as if you give a side like that the possession and time to think on the ball of course they’re going to create chances. 

That's it, the second you actually put it on Spain, they were all over the place, gaps coming the defense, midfield absolutely not having an idea where to go, and low and behold England scored a quite deserved goal.

Horseshite that other teams had chances they could have buried, welcome to football, England equalised and then took the foot straight off a Spanish side they'd give the run of the field for 60 minutes and then now had them all in a panic.

**** poor management, and going 'oh well, they were the best' is absolutely copium, you had them vulnerable, weak, open and on the ropes and then sat back after equalising, baffling.

The Italians were the same but at least have quality in defense to fend off such attack, but my word, we say people see football through different lenses and it might be my slight bias to following a team where stats don't tell the story, but they were absolutely there, wide open, ready to be beaten.

[lennon67]

Deserved winner, England easiest route to final & still bottle it. 

[scott MUFC]

as per usual, play rubbish until 1-0 down, show the quality we should be showing to score... and then back to turgid.. sick of it

[EnterUsernameHere]

Quality. Gaz with egg on his face again

[Divinity]

Love that.  

[Ackter]

Spains midfield was by far the best in the tournament and completely and utterly outclassed England. Their defence and attack weren't anything special.

England could have beaten that Spanish side with the right person in charge without having to rely on luck.

[The_jagster]

6 hours ago, sc91 said:

Outside looking in, this is the one they should have won. Spain were poor.

Didn't take long did it, yesterday you were saying you wouldn't mind England winning and now it's back to trolling (but getting bites), never change

[dafuge]

Simon 46
Laporte 35
Le Normand 16
Nacho 29

Seems you can win a tournament without 50 caps at the back after all.