International Management

[jim owen]

To try and understand the percentage of people that use international management as SI have only received the percentage of saves which use international management (a completely different number), I've setup a poll. I know this is a crude measure but it will give some guidance

[Carmi88]

5 minutes ago, jim owen said:

To try and understand the percentage of people that use international management as SI have only received the percentage of saves which use international management (a completely different number), I've setup a poll. I know this is a crude measure but it will give some guidance

and you are only gonna get feedback from a very small percentage of players who browse the forum, this is pointless

[XaW]

Not sure what this will accomplish, but go ahead. Just know that the results here does not give close to any resemblance of a representative selection of participants and are thus only for your amusement and not proof of any measure nor will it be useful for any type of guidance.

Also, the selection of answers is severely lacking.

[phnompenhandy]

As a lower league manager, I like the idea of managing a 'tiny nation', i.e. bottom of the FIFA rankings, or better a non-FIFA member. Problem is some of them only play a couple of matches per year. So I was thrilled to find a mod, 'Ultimate World Cup and Nations League' - a fantasy that has the wee nations playing 20 or so fixtures per year. It goes nicely with the fantasy lower leagues mods that allow promotion and relegation, wherein reality that doesn't exist.

[jim owen]

1 hour ago, XaW said:

Not sure what this will accomplish, but go ahead. Just know that the results here does not give close to any resemblance of a representative selection of participants and are thus only for your amusement and not proof of any measure nor will it be useful for any type of guidance.

Also, the selection of answers is severely lacking.

I understand its not an ideal representative selcetion of participants, but as SI have chosen to hide the data which is their right its the best we can do. 

 

As for the selection of answers any more would be inappropriate, if i'm trying to identify the percentage of people who have played FM24 and utilised International management at some point. If i just wanted the number of games that are international then SI released that data already, i'm intetrested in the percentage that use it whether it be once or a lot doesnt matter

[Carambau]

11 hours ago, XaW said:

Not sure what this will accomplish, but go ahead. Just know that the results here does not give close to any resemblance of a representative selection of participants and are thus only for your amusement and not proof of any measure nor will it be useful for any type of guidance.

Also, the selection of answers is severely lacking.

It is representative enough for me though  

Edited September 9 by Carambau

[CaptainSa]

In the spirit of the silliness with which this topic deserves, I have chosen to vote for the option is the opposite of what I have done in FM24.

[rp1966]

I have voted 'not played international management; in FM24. However, that's not a reflection of my attitude to international management, just of this edition's saves.  Most editions I'll end up playing at least one cycle of IM - one Euros and one World Cup, but everything depends on getting the job offers with the right nation at the right point in the save.  I've found FM24 pretty poor with job offers altogether, even at club level.  No suitable national team appointment has been offered in any of my saves during the FM24 cycle.

 

Edited September 9 by rp1966

[Uncle Adi]

I haven't yet but I'm intending to in this save, therefore I abstain from voting.

[Birdman10piyu]

I havent really played but I do keep track of international call-up. When doing  a LLM save and having your star striker, even if on the bench, get a call up is fun to see.

It's an immersion thing for me. International experience is a stat I can see if a player has or not.

[Sandro90]

Can't we just leave international football as it was for now? For me it's a must have.

[snowofman]

2 hours ago, Sandro90 said:

Can't we just leave international football as it was for now? For me it's a must have.

Sometimes removing something for a period of time is necessary to be able to add it in a much better state.

it will still be playable on FM25 Mobile  and return for FM26 in a much more feature-rich way. 

[podunkboy]

I've played at least one international management save every year for the past 12 years. I've managed everywhere from France, Denmark, Scotland, Iceland, Ireland, Senegal, down to Gibraltar and Reunion. Most frustrating: set up a wonderkid sign-up here on the forum for Reunion, with the intentions of building a team of players from the French territories to challenge in the French Cup. Everything was going great until we got to the actual qualification rounds of the tourney and the game demanded that at least 12 players on the club team in Reunion be French. Because all the players on the team were from Reunion, Tahiti, Guadaloupe, Martinique, etc (the French overseas territories), I figured we were good, but the ONLY players the game allowed were French citizens playing in Reunion, none of the territorial citizens qualified. Save ruined. I raised the concern on the bugs forum and...*crickets* Also, if you are offered a national job for a country that's not one of the included leagues/nations in the game, you never get sufficient player generation to make a go of a long-term international save unless you expand the database at save start. 

[Brother Ben]

11 hours ago, Birdman10piyu said:

I havent really played but I do keep track of international call-up. When doing  a LLM save and having your star striker, even if on the bench, get a call up is fun to see.

It's an immersion thing for me. International experience is a stat I can see if a player has or not.

Unless i'm mistaken International teams will still be present in FM25 so this will still happen.

[Ranquelme]

I always play it. I like having adding a legend from the past trying to bring a nation to glory. 

[Icy]

I miss a third option in the poll that imho is the key for the published stats.

I haven't played international management because it's been barebones for many years, else I'd play it.

The fact that many of us do not play doesn't mean we don't want to and that 5% spoken about can be misleading.

It's just that it was not a fun part because it was never developed enough.

[DP]

41 minutes ago, Icy said:

I miss a third option in the poll that imho is the key for the published stats.

I haven't played international management because it's been barebones for many years, else I'd play it.

The fact that many of us do not play doesn't mean we don't want to and that 5% spoken about can be misleading.

It's just that it was not a fun part because it was never developed enough.

It should always be quite ‘bare bones’ as it’s a ‘bonus’ mode to be played alongside your club. Was always like this from CM2 where being able to manage the national team was a ‘cheat’. It’s never been designed to be played standalone and it shouldn’t be imo - as whatever is added it’s still not going to be busy enough. 

It’s absolutely fine as a bonus mode with a club team but a few things need adding and tweaking (training, dynamics etc). It doesn’t need a significant redesign, in my opinion. 

Edited September 10 by DP

[jim owen]

10 hours ago, DP said:

It should always be quite ‘bare bones’ as it’s a ‘bonus’ mode to be played alongside your club. Was always like this from CM2 where being able to manage the national team was a ‘cheat’. It’s never been designed to be played standalone and it shouldn’t be imo - as whatever is added it’s still not going to be busy enough. 

It’s absolutely fine as a bonus mode with a club team but a few things need adding and tweaking (training, dynamics etc). It doesn’t need a significant redesign, in my opinion. 

I've played it as standalone for many years

[DP]

46 minutes ago, jim owen said:

I've played it as standalone for many years

I’m not saying you can’t but it was never really designed to be played that way. If you do play as a standalone there is an awful lot of clicking through, not doing much, outside of once every two year tournaments. And if we’re honest, there’s not really a whole lot they can do to plug those gaps. 

[birkelse]

Iam using National teams in versus games.

[davehanson]

11 hours ago, DP said:

I’m not saying you can’t but it was never really designed to be played that way. If you do play as a standalone there is an awful lot of clicking through, not doing much, outside of once every two year tournaments. And if we’re honest, there’s not really a whole lot they can do to plug those gaps. 

I have said in the development post, I usually start any new save as an International Manager before moving to a club job after a couple of tournaments. The reason? By that point newgens are coming through, I enjoy trying to lead England to a major trophy (as if), and it is a quick way to get 8 years into the future and build up your reputation.

There isn't a lot of clicking through - just et the game to auto process between squad selections etc and listen to music.

[Cometdude]

I'm currently managing England alongside Chelsea (I started at York) and while the international management is okay, it is massively lacking in depth and features.

[DP]

3 hours ago, davehanson said:

I have said in the development post, I usually start any new save as an International Manager before moving to a club job after a couple of tournaments. The reason? By that point newgens are coming through, I enjoy trying to lead England to a major trophy (as if), and it is a quick way to get 8 years into the future and build up your reputation.

There isn't a lot of clicking through - just et the game to auto process between squad selections etc and listen to music.

Okay a lot of dead time, then, sitting around. No matter what SI do with international management, that is always going to be the case. Unless you manage them alongside a club. 

Edited September 11 by DP

[Junkhead]

Not managed a national side on this version, but for me the shame is that the possibility/feature won't be available.

It's a double edged sword though because I fully agree with SI's stance that it isn't where they want it to be - what I personally don't understand is why they would remove it rather than just leave it in in its current state so that at least the option is there.

Unless it's been impacted by another change late in the development cycle and won't be fixed in time.

[Carambau]

Will there be international tournaments like the world cup held in the game at all?

If not, thats the final nail in the coffin for me for FM25.

Edited September 11 by Carambau

[Junkhead]

2 minutes ago, Carambau said:

Will there be international tournaments like the world cup held in the game at all?

If not, thats the final nail in the coffin for me for FM25.

I got the impression there would be, but this is a good question.

[HUNT3R]

8 minutes ago, Carambau said:

Will there be international tournaments like the world cup held in the game at all?

It's in the dev update, pinned to the top of the page.

"The challenges we’ve encountered in the development process over the last couple of months have led us to make another difficult decision around game content: international management will not be a playable mode in FM25, FM25 Console or FM25 Touch. "

"So, rather than delay FM25 even further, we’ve paused work on that area of the game and allocated those resources to other key areas. It will continue to exist in FM25, FM25 Console and FM25 Touch as part of the wider simulation of world football, it just won’t be playable. "

[davehanson]

38 minutes ago, DP said:

Okay a lot of dead time, then, sitting around. No matter what SI do with international management, that is always going to be the case. Unless you manage them alongside a club. 

Its not dead time if you are doing something else - that is the beauty of it.

[whatsupdoc]

I don't mind the decision to scrap international football for the time being, it wasn't well done at all. That said, the 5% claim seems a bit low given 7.2% have the achievement of winning an international comp.

I guess it's somewhere between these two figures?

[Ataraxia]

On 08/09/2024 at 12:46, XaW said:

Just know that the results here does not give close to any resemblance of a representative selection of participants and are thus only for your amusement and not proof of any measure nor will it be useful for any type of guidance.

I would say precisely the same thing about the data that SI has collected and analyzed. Since SI is only analyzing data collected under very specific and somewhat limited game conditions, and since users can refuse to share data with SI and other platforms, the numbers are not properly representative of the entire user base and how people use the game under the full breadth of use cases and conditions. It's a start, and it's convenient, but the previous post above shows that we already have clear indicators to suggest that SI's data is inaccurate. 

The better option is always to conduct large-scale, professional, digital survey research with your customer base, and that's what SI should be doing. As someone who has spent part of his career in market research and as a market analysis, I can assure you that conducting more rigorous, professional online survey research produces far more reliable and credible data.

However, if SI can't complete the features or get them working on time, the data doesn't matter anyway. Just be transparent with your customers and make it clear whether you plan to eventually restore the feature, permanently remove it, or start charging people to access it in the future. I suspect that the real issue here is that the development team fell behind and can't complete the international management feature on time or correctly. So, the 5% data point is a convenient way to excuse and downplay the feature's removal for the time being. Hopefully we'll see it restored within a few months of FM25's release. I certainly hope we're not going to see a permanent removal, and I hope we won't be required to pay a separate fee to add the feature once it's available.

 

[Wolf_pd]

11 hours ago, whatsupdoc said:

I don't mind the decision to scrap international football for the time being, it wasn't well done at all. That said, the 5% claim seems a bit low given 7.2% have the achievement of winning an international comp.

I guess it's somewhere between these two figures?

Question, is this from Steam?

[XaW]

20 minutes ago, Ataraxia said:

I would say precisely the same thing about the data that SI has collected and analyzed. Since SI is only analyzing data collected under very specific and somewhat limited game conditions, and since users can refuse to share data with SI and other platforms, the numbers are not properly representative of the entire user base and how people use the game under the full breadth of use cases and conditions. It's a start, and it's convenient, but the previous post above shows that we already have clear indicators to suggest that SI's data is inaccurate. 

I agree, at least to a degree, as many Steam users agree to share the info, and I think those represent the average SI customer more than a few on these boards, but it's not 100% either. Though I disagree about it being clear, as I read the percentage as 5% of saves, not 5% of users... the distinction is key. If I start 100 saves and touch international in 1 of them, my contribution isn't as 1 user who has done so, it's that 1/100 saves have used it. So the percentage of users who have done it at least once might be way higher (at least 7.2% of Steam users, since they have won something). Being offered the job however doesn't indicate much, I've been offered it in many saves where I haven't taken it...

22 minutes ago, Ataraxia said:

The better option is always to conduct large-scale, professional, digital survey research with your customer base, and that's what SI should be doing. As someone who has spent part of his career in market research and as a market analysis, I can assure you that conducting more rigorous, professional online survey research produces far more reliable and credible data.

This is a given, and think SI does this as they have referred to user research before in various topics.

23 minutes ago, Ataraxia said:

However, if SI can't complete the features or get them working on time, the data doesn't matter anyway. Just be transparent with your customers and make it clear whether you plan to eventually restore the feature, permanently remove it, or start charging people to access it in the future. I suspect that the real issue here is that the development team fell behind and can't complete the international management feature on time or correctly. So, the 5% data point is a convenient way to excuse and downplay the feature's removal for the time being. Hopefully we'll see it restored within a few months of FM25's release. I certainly hope we're not going to see a permanent removal, and I hope we won't be required to pay a separate fee to add the feature once it's available.

Well, according to the update from Miles you refer to with the percentage, international management will return for FM26, and then as part of the base game (in a new and improved way) and not some additional DLC style content. So I think that was pretty clear and open, both in the reason why it's been removed (time/usage) and when and how it will return (FM26 as part of the base game). And from that I'm not sure what more he could have done without going into technical details?

[stevedaytona]

On 09/09/2024 at 05:31, Sandro90 said:

Can't we just leave international football as it was for now? For me it's a must have.

If your question is can't they just copy the code related to International Management in FM24 & shoehorn it into FM25, then I believe the answer is no, that is not possible.

[JonasWS]

I've been looking forward to the fm25, now I'm not going to buy it.  It may well be that there were only 5.6% who used the function, but it adds depth to the game that the option is there.  I have always managed a club for the first several seasons, and then tried to get the job as national coach for Denmark late in the game.  The feature hasn't always been used, but the storytelling you have in your head is a huge part of the game, and it's neglected here by making it up in percentages.  it annoys me to bring women's football into the game that no one wanted and remove an important feature that no one wanted removed.  you forget your fans.  it will be the first sc since CM 1 that I don't buy

[Ataraxia]

22 hours ago, XaW said:

Well, according to the update from Miles you refer to with the percentage, international management will return for FM26, and then as part of the base game (in a new and improved way) and not some additional DLC style content. So I think that was pretty clear and open, both in the reason why it's been removed (time/usage) and when and how it will return (FM26 as part of the base game). And from that I'm not sure what more he could have done without going into technical details?

Yes, thanks for pointing this out. I had not seen the latest development update yet, but I found reference to those details elsewhere, right after I posted my message yesterday. Of course, there is never a guarantee, as I've seen some other sports sims plan to add or restore a feature in the past but then leave it out of the product in favor of other priorities. But as someone who goes back to CM 97/98, I trust Miles, and I look forward to seeing international management restored in FM26.

However, like many others I've seen posting all across the Internet, I'm planning to skip FM25 for now. As someone who's been a beta tester for other products and prefers to support new development, I've always bought and used new versions straight away, and I've never been the sort to wait until all patches are released or initial bugs are worked out. But I would rather avoid missing features and initial problems that will inevitably stem from the major shift in FM's development. So, it's perhaps telling that this will be the first time that I've ever bypassed the initial release of a game that I'm actively playing.

I suspect that some who are planning to skip FM25 will get on board once they see videos of people playing the game and get excited about new features and improvements. But I'm happy to keep playing FM24 until FM26, especially since I was planning to start doing some new international management soon.

[vonreichsm]

And here are now the 5 percent who play the intenational management? That´s a lot of people and not only 5 percent:).

[Matteo3champions]

I’m a bit disappointed about SI decided to remove international manager in FM25, but i hope that will come back completely overhauled in the next version. 
 

what i hope, is that all the dynamics around international management will still be in game. I’m talking about players who are complaining on their less playing time in the team that compromise their future with the national team, or players that want to leave for have more chance to be called up for the upcoming big international tournament.

[whatsupdoc]

On 13/09/2024 at 04:54, Wolf_pd said:

Question, is this from Steam?

yeah

[Nikki]

Didn't vote, because I've not played FM2024, but I've got a few things to say as I've still played hundreds of hours of FM just this year. I wouldn't dare guess the percentage of saves I have that include international management. It may very well be somewhere between 10-50%, though at the same time, the saves that I've spent 90-99% of my playtime on definitely all include international management.

Statistics are tricky things that can be bent into different shapes, but I don't think they really matter all that much in this case anyway. There are so many relevant factors. If I decide to try out the Indonesian league as a second save next to my main 60-season save and then give up on it right away because I decide I don't care for it, now my use the Indonesian leagues in my saves goes from 0 to 50% and international management goes from 100 to 50%. They needed to scrap something and chose to justify it the way they did, but either way they were going to scrap something and upset someone. Trying to work the numbers in a different way doesn't prove or accomplish anything.

I just hope that they'll really do bring it back better, and not just in the same state that they left it in.

[phnompenhandy]

There's a problem with assuming a feature is little-used, therefore it is unpopular. I'm sure international management would be popular if it was done well. It's the same with sound - many if not most turn it off because it's awful. Yet if commentary came with meaningful and diverse comments voiced by famous commentators, I bet loads would turn it on. I personally do manage international sides in FM24; I'm okay with it disappearing for a year if SI are genuinely committed to getting it done well and reintroduced a year later. What would be very upsetting is if they turn around eight months later and quietly announce that it won't be coming back because few people used or missed it.

[Lerwick Saint]

I played it in older versions and absolutely loved it.  Now I'm older and have less time to play, so usually prefer week-to-week stuff, as International matches would be too far apart.  I certainly wouldn't like the feature to be removed, as I'd like to do it again sometime.

[inacion]

I have played international management while keep training a normal football teams. After having a good reputation I'm always look for international management jobs to apply

[grade]

What I was interested to see, what is exactly is the number people those 5.6%, really represent.