Will you play Women's football in FM25?

[Smurf]

The introduction of women's football into FM25 has sparked a healthy range of opinions, from excitement to indifference. It's great to see that over 35% of people are interested in playing it (forum polls are often a poor measure of general game players), it shows some merit to its inclusion. As football evolves, the game must reflect that, and this update could help introduce many players to the women's game, just like how previous FM versions helped people discover leagues and players they weren't familiar with. Whether or not it’s your thing, this addition opens up more possibilities and fresh challenges for everyone. It introduces a new era of game players who may have overlooked Football Manager altogether.

Edited September 12 by Smurf

[Micho21]

I have no idea about women's football... and that's the reason I will probably started a save. It is a chance to try out new tactics and strategies in a completely new world.

[Minuy600]

Absolutely. It's the better sport to me outside of the atmosphere being slightly lacking over here. There's so much unexplored history and it's just COOL to see a sport get gradually bigger and more mainstream. I'm happy to support it in whatever way I can, and that includes this, too. EA FC 24 already rekindled my interest in THAT series cuz women's football is at the forefront there, here's hoping the same can happen with FM. Especially if the Eredivisie is in.

[mellman]

Yeah I'm actually quite looking forward to seeing how it's implemented - I'm an Arsenal fan so will take the ladies team for my first save in that universe .

[Javier]

I'll give it a try but to be honest I'm not very interested.

[dannyo666]

15 hours ago, Malicious Penguin said:

I wonder if the people who won't play the women's leagues currently play in leagues they don't follow.

I do...This thread was always going to be a "thread carefully with any comment" type of thread

[K94]

I understand the reason for introducing it, although I would've personally preferred that the time that went into working that into the game was spent on other issues, especially the more blatant ones that have been plaguing the game for years such as fixing once and for good player interactions. 

But that's just me, I usually play one, max two, saves a year and stick to those teams for that FM release. I understand how it could be an interesting change of scenary for players that experiment with a much larger number of saves a year. Even if I ended up having the time, not knowing all that much about the women's game and not having international football to ease into it would be kind of a deal breaker for me.

[Petra90]

It's my most anticipated feature for a few years now. I even considered getting We Are Football 2024 because they have women's football too.

The latest I bought was FM20 and was happy enough with it; I will buy FM25 when it comes out for sure. Only reason I got FM24 is because it's free on Epic Games.

[CalumF]

16 hours ago, Mystique said:

I haven't voted as it's a meaningless and absurd question to ask in the first place.

 

I haven't decided whether to buy FM25 yet, but if I do buy it, I will definitely play a women's league, get to know the players, the rules etc. 

 

 

 

Thanks for answering my question and contributing to the thread mate.........

[kevhamster]

I'll give it a go for sure.  It'll be interesting to see if and how it differs to playing in the men's leagues.

[CalumF]

8 hours ago, Smurf said:

The introduction of women's football into FM25 has sparked a healthy range of opinions, from excitement to indifference. It's great to see that over 35% of people are interested in playing it (forum polls are often a poor measure of general game players), it shows some merit to its inclusion. As football evolves, the game must reflect that, and this update could help introduce many players to the women's game, just like how previous FM versions helped people discover leagues and players they weren't familiar with. Whether or not it’s your thing, this addition opens up more possibilities and fresh challenges for everyone. It introduces a new era of game players who may have overlooked Football Manager altogether.

The reason why I asked the question and started the poll. Great response and if it brings more players to Football Manager brilliant. 

[vonreichsm]

OK. More than 60% of them who read this thread will not play womens football. Why canceled si so many features?

[trevjim]

I have no interest in it, but support it's addition for anyone who does.

However I get the impression it's been added because of sentiment and fear of the DEI police instead than any actual meaningful demand for it 

[Smurf]

2 hours ago, trevjim said:

I have no interest in it, but support it's addition for anyone who does.

However I get the impression it's been added because of sentiment and fear of the DEI police instead than any actual meaningful demand for it 

That scene is a pisstake from Field of Dreams - 'if you build it they will come' 

Even though you and others are not personally invested in women’s football, You have to see the value in including it.

The women who’ve forged professional careers in football are trailblazers in their own right. Just like their male counterparts, they’ve worked incredibly hard to reach the top of their level, overcoming challenges unique to their journey.

This addition recognises the growth of the women’s game and the efforts of those who’ve paved the way for future generations. It’s not just about ticking a box; it’s about giving these players, coaches, and fans the representation they deserve in one of football’s most iconic games.

Whether or not it was driven by demand, it feels like a step forward for the sport as a whole.

 

Edited September 15 by Smurf

[forameuss]

14 hours ago, vonreichsm said:

OK. More than 60% of them who read this thread will not play womens football. Why canceled si so many features?

Yeah, it's a real mystery. Not like they've already said why they've dropped certain things or anything like that.

[Nikki]

It is/was the entire point for me. I decided in 2019 that I wouldn't be buying another FM until it contained women's football, and it's absolutely going to be the main focus on my next FM save. Though now that international management has been scrapped, it does depend on whether they add at least the Dutch women's league. I do mean to manage all over, but if I don't get to play either the Dutch national team or the Dutch league, then there's a good chance that I'll wait for FM2026.

[filip_croatia]

Absolutely not !

[autohoratio]

I don't follow women's football at all (probably only ever watched three women's games on tv max), but I like starting saves with teams I haven't managed before or leagues that are brand new to me, especially a few tiers down from the top flight. I'll definitely give managing a women's team a try even just the once.

[waraka14]

Very few gonna play it and it’s an odd decision that wasn’t based on what’s best for the game but rather what’s good for the developers image

Edited September 16 by waraka14

[Andrew Marines]

Don't worry. 

If the feature turns out great, some youtubers will praise it and people will try it. Happens every time.

If it'll be close to reality, women's football will be a lot more on the technical side rather than on the physical. Could be a great challenge and a breath of fresh air for the game

[Fond Foat]

I find women's football boring to watch, but if I decide to get FM25. I may look at it. In reality, I may have looked at managing an international team, but if SI have removed that, it is even more unlikely. I also admit to not having bought 23 or 24, so very unlikely to get 25 as the game overall seems to be going nowhere new.

I imagine female players will be rated compared to each other and not against the men. Since a boys team beat a female National team in real life, ratings will surely have to be separated (apologise if this is already known. I haven't read the dev logs for awhile). I would be more likely to want to manage youth football than woman's football. 

Still, I imagine many youtubers will play woman's football and that will help it gain traction in the game itself. 

Edited Monday at 14:00 by Fond Foat

[trevjim]

On 12/09/2024 at 03:29, speck said:

I doubt I would play it either, but I'm sure for some it will be their main method of playing. SI probably shouldn't have tried to include it at the same time as all the other changes, since it does give people an easy excuse to point at a reason for the delay (or poor initial release if that happens).

I'm actually curious if the selection/inclusion of women's leagues will be mandatory when selecting a country. I've seen some people say that it definitely won't be mandatory, but it wouldn't shock me too much if it is. It would create a lot of complaints (some justified) if they do include them, so hopefully it's not mandatory.

Agreed about the timing.

 

It's a curious decision to include it on their biggest relaunch for 10+ years 

 

I know they started work on it 2 years ago but it does seem odd.

[Steve8066]

No simply because i wont be buying FM25 due to removal of National team management.

Edited Monday at 10:44 by Steve8066

[DominicForza]

On 11/09/2024 at 03:23, phnompenhandy said:

I was looking forward to it. But taking out International Football management makes me inclined to pass on FM25 despite the freshness of adding the women's game.

The only interest I would have in playing women's football in FM would be as international manager.   So..no,  I will not be playing women's football in FM 25.

 

Not at all happy about them removing it. I'd be 100% fine with "improving" club play and keep the old international management as it was and upgrade it in FM26.  Maybe thats not doable under the shell.  But...whatever.

[gotti]

If I buy fm25 I will start a women's football save. I want to coach the FK Austria Wien where the women perform better than the man recently. 

[Icy]

Voted no because there is not a third option "Maybe" and as had to chose one answer, no is more probable than yes.

To be honest even when I play mainly LLM I rarely play out of the top 5 leagues as that is what I know and as I know little about women players other than the Spanish national team ones. I usually watch the women national team tournaments, specially now that Spain is doing a great job, but I have no interest in the league as it's not as popular, nobody around me talks about them, they are barely in the news other than national level etc. Also at least in Spain, only 2 or 3 teams have any budget to sign players etc, it's mainly amateur level in terms of finances so I don't find these leagues that interesting as also love the tycoon/finance side of football games.

On the other hand I have no problem at all with it being in the game. In fact I'm sure that for many women that have been paying the FM series for years (there are many), to have the women leagues is a huge feature, like when the lower leagues were added to the database and my city team was playable, that gave me tons of fun. Also it could help for women football to keep growing and becoming more and more popular among men as well and if I ever see it grow popular enough, I'm sure it will attract my interest as well like I watch and follow other women sports.

Edited Monday at 14:13 by Icy

[StatboySpurs]

No, but I have no issues with it being included or people playing it.

My question is this: are the women's players going to be included in the same database? I'm the type that loads a lot of leagues. I assume that I would have the option to not load women's leagues/players, right? If they were loaded, it would slow down my game quite a bit.

[Viking]

No, just like I do not play the Mongolian league: I know nothing about it and I am not interested enough to care. Now lynch me and/or put me in the national register of filthy haters.

[samrnpage]

ill check it out, maybe do 1 save , but it wont be my long term save

[SkaldfraNorden]

Just like the English 5th tier, or Gibraltar, or Icelandic league, no, not gonna play it, just gonna take up processing time

[Nobby_McDonald]

I was going to, thanks mainly to my daughter who really, really enjoys her football.

Then I found out there will be no international management in the game, so managing the Lionesses at some point won't be an option, which I was keen to do after the home Euros and the World Cup.
Then FM24 became free on Epic, so I got that, my first version since FM18.

So it's looking increasingly unlikely I'll even get FM25. If the women's game goes down to the third tier in England on FM25 then I might still do so, as it will include my local team Stoke City Women.

Edited Tuesday at 10:04 by Nobby_McDonald

[Deisler26]

I can't wait to take over Barca Women and make Claudia Pina the Women's Balon D'or winner

[internationalfriendly]

Yes, definitely! Intrigued to see how it plays differently to the men's game. 

[Kickballz]

10 hours ago, Nobby_McDonald said:

I was going to, thanks mainly to my daughter who really, really enjoys her football.

Then I found out there will be no international management in the game, so managing the Lionesses at some point won't be an option, which I was keen to do after the home Euros and the World Cup.
Then FM24 became free on Epic, so I got that, my first version since FM18.

So it's looking increasingly unlikely I'll even get FM25. If the women's game goes down to the third tier in England on FM25 then I might still do so, as it will include my Stoke City Women.

What level are Stoke City Women playing at?

My local amateur women's team play right along the road from me and I have been going along to watch them over the last year or so. Anyone who disparages the women's game only needs to turn up and watch a local game. It is highly competitive (brutally sometimes - yes I have seen some shocking tackles) and entertaining.

There is a real explosion of women's football happening and I applaud SI for understanding this.

[Nobby_McDonald]

2 hours ago, Kickballz said:

What level are Stoke City Women playing at?

My local amateur women's team play right along the road from me and I have been going along to watch them over the last year or so. Anyone who disparages the women's game only needs to turn up and watch a local game. It is highly competitive (brutally sometimes - yes I have seen some shocking tackles) and entertaining.

There is a real explosion of women's football happening and I applaud SI for understanding this.

Stoke City play in the National League North, the third tier of the women's game which was won by Newcastle United last season, the only professional team at that level. Stoke turned semi professional at the start of last season.

I agree with it being physical and very competitive. At senior level, you only have to blow on the men and they roll about as if they have broken a leg. The women don't do any of that and they don't hold back on each other. 

The under 11s grassroots team my daughter plays for, they all love playing, they all get stuck in and they don't play act either. You know when the girls are hurt, they cry. Any other time they pick themselves up and get on with it. Also, two seasons ago there were 16 teams in two divisions in this age group (then under 9s) in the Staffordshire Girls League. This season there are 30 teams in three divisions. As you said, the women and girls game is exploding.

My daughter also plays for Stoke City Girls under 10s and the ability and commitment of the girls there is great to see.

Women can now get a proper career in football. It wasn't too long ago they couldn't, at least in this country. Girls now want to be the next Mary Earps, Leah Williamson, Ellen White et al. And they can.

Long may it continue.

Edited Tuesday at 12:18 by Nobby_McDonald

[diLLa88]

3 hours ago, internationalfriendly said:

Yes, definitely! Intrigued to see how it plays differently to the men's game. 

Probably no different at all, as lower leagues also kinda just looks and plays the same as playing with man city (in the match engine)

[forameuss]

2 minutes ago, diLLa88 said:

Probably no different at all, as lower leagues also kinda just looks and plays the same as playing with man city (in the match engine)

I'd imagine it would given they use the same match engine.  Given women's football will likely use a different one, it's probably going to be different.

[diLLa88]

6 hours ago, forameuss said:

I'd imagine it would given they use the same match engine.  Given women's football will likely use a different one, it's probably going to be different.

We'll see, but I doubt it.

[CaptainSa]

21 hours ago, forameuss said:

I'd imagine it would given they use the same match engine.  Given women's football will likely use a different one, it's probably going to be different.

Why would women's football use a different match engine?

[forameuss]

35 minutes ago, CaptainSa said:

Why would women's football use a different match engine?

Because it absolutely should?  Have you watched a women's football game?  It's visually different to a men's game due to the difference in physicalities.  If they are doing it right, they should absolutely have a different version of the match engine, if not another entirely.

[santy001]

Certain things can obviously be shared, like ball physics. While I know there was mention quite a while back the motion capture for the players needed to be re-done it makes sense that there will be adjustments to the match engine for the women's football and while hitting the right balance will be a challenge some aspects will come down to modifiers. There will be a lot of things in the ME where a coefficient is applied to something and having coefficients gives more precise control rather than having to change the underlying math/calculations. So maybe for the men's game something is set at 84% and for the women's it will be 78%, in the men's one thing is 50% and the women's it will be at 63% etc. 

[Grifty]

I’d prefer them to focus on getting this ME with the big upgrade / change right rather than splitting resources to make the men’s and women’s ME slightly different to appease some keyboard warriors!

[herne79]

1 hour ago, forameuss said:

Because it absolutely should?  Have you watched a women's football game?  It's visually different to a men's game due to the difference in physicalities.  If they are doing it right, they should absolutely have a different version of the match engine, if not another entirely.

That doesn’t answer the question?  Visual differences relate to the Graphics Engine, not the Match Engine.  The ME just takes various inputs and spews out a result via some clever calculations, but we don’t “see” the ME.  There should absolutely be differences to the inputs and in the graphics, but to the ME and its calculations?  I don’t know, perhaps SI are indeed working on two separate MEs or perhaps two “tweaked” versions due to some coefficient differences as @santy001 mentions, but isn’t that still just variable inputs to the same ME?

Two different Graphics Engines and different inputs for sure, but two different Match Engines?  I’d be surprised.

[forameuss]

13 minutes ago, herne79 said:

That doesn’t answer the question?  Visual differences relate to the Graphics Engine, not the Match Engine.  The ME just takes various inputs and spews out a result via some clever calculations, but we don’t “see” the ME.  There should absolutely be differences to the inputs and in the graphics, but to the ME and its calculations?  I don’t know, perhaps SI are indeed working on two separate MEs or perhaps two “tweaked” versions due to some coefficient differences as @santy001 mentions, but isn’t that still just variable inputs to the same ME?

Two different Graphics Engines and different inputs for sure, but two different Match Engines?  I’d be surprised.

If the players are moving in two completely different ways, that's absolutely going to affect the calculations going into the match engine.  

It's splitting hairs to say whether a "new" match engine means a completely separate one.  I was replying to a comment suggesting things would basically look identical, But I expect there to be fairly significant differences between how a women's match plays, and a men's, and those differences will exist both visually and in calculations.  Different inputs, different outputs, I'm not going to argue the semantics on whether that means it's one match engine or two.

[herne79]

1 hour ago, forameuss said:

If the players are moving in two completely different ways, that's absolutely going to affect the calculations going into the match engine.  

It's splitting hairs to say whether a "new" match engine means a completely separate one.  I was replying to a comment suggesting things would basically look identical, But I expect there to be fairly significant differences between how a women's match plays, and a men's, and those differences will exist both visually and in calculations.  Different inputs, different outputs, I'm not going to argue the semantics on whether that means it's one match engine or two.

For me, the calculations are the Match Engine, so I’d have thought any differences needed for how people move etc would be done via different inputs (such as player attributes).  But hey, SI are playing their cards very close (too close?) to their chest which will just continue to breed conjecture.  We’ll find out at some point.  Maybe .

[Crispypaul]

I will if I do buy FM25 - have no interest in women's football IRL but I have no interest in Scandinavian lower league football IRL but play it in FM

Lot of the leagues haven't changed for ages so a whole new setup is very interesting 

[MagicHat]

Honestly, no... there's a 100 save ideas i would pursue before i played the women's leagues. TBH it's a huge waste of time for SI because the amount of people who play the game for that feature will not be worth the workload needed to implement it... being realistic here... 

Just to remind you all... the game was delayed 

[forameuss]

11 minutes ago, MagicHat said:

Honestly, no... there's a 100 save ideas i would pursue before i played the women's leagues. TBH it's a huge waste of time for SI because the amount of people who play the game for that feature will not be worth the workload needed to implement it... being realistic here... 

Just to remind you all... the game was delayed 

 Again, sweeping statements imagining what everyone else thinks of it don't paint you in a very good light.  Plenty of people have managed to express disinterest for the feature without being desperate to tell everyone else that they shouldn't be either.

And just to remind you, they were pretty clear about the reason the game was delayed, and it wasn't because they've spent multiple years adding women's football, more the wholesale change away from an engine they've been using for decades to a completely new one. 

[MagicHat]

26 minutes ago, forameuss said:

 Again, sweeping statements imagining what everyone else thinks of it don't paint you in a very good light.  Plenty of people have managed to express disinterest for the feature without being desperate to tell everyone else that they shouldn't be either.

And just to remind you, they were pretty clear about the reason the game was delayed, and it wasn't because they've spent multiple years adding women's football, more the wholesale change away from an engine they've been using for decades to a completely new one. 

Sorry but i only deal with facts and logic. Fact 1. Womens football is significantly less popular than mens football. Womens football in games is even less popular.

Fact 2. Would adding another sex category of teams in FM have increased the workload of SI... 100% it will have.

29 minutes ago, forameuss said:

it don't paint you in a very good light

This really isn't necessary. Ad Hominem is ineffective against reason.

[Minuy600]

 

14 minutes ago, MagicHat said:

Sorry but i only deal with facts and logic. Womens football in games is even less popular.

Heh??? It's only been a significant part of FIFA/EA FC for 2 years and it's the one example we have. And from that single example, it's proven that people have been really enjoying it big time on UT. Like no **** it's not at the same level as the men's game, there's far less included teams and players. But even then!

It's really funny, yet tragic, how people try to writhe around the 'uncomfortable' fact that the sport is on the rise and it's only now starting to get the recognition it deserves. Facts and logic? Did you get those from Twitter or something?