cmonreds

26-27 season finished. Priority was CL and the national cup, whilst still trying to pose at title challenge. League As soon as the CL games started weren't able to pose a title challenge. Possession at 61% shared 1st place with PSG. French cup Lost on penalties with the 2nd XI. Champions League League phase: Round of 16 vs Lille Quarter Final vs Arsenal Semi Final vs Man City Final vs Liverpool All three versions of the tactic was used in the CL run, depending on scenario and events during the matches 1-3 versions of the tactic used in the same match. This was as close run...

Training 1st team: Old schedules, training player roles and individual focus Training 2nd team: Old schedules training player roles and individual focus Training Youth team: New schedules and NO training player roles,only individual focus (ballcontrol/technique/passing/agility/acceleration during time at youth team - screenshots only ballcontrol) Results: 1/2 stars potential trained first for 1 year old schedules and 9 months with the youth team schedules 1,5/2,5 stars potential trained for 9 months in the youth team 2/3 stars potential trained for 9 months in the youth team 2/3 stars potential trained first for 1 year old schedules and 9 months with the youth team schedules 2,5/3,5 stars potential trained first for 1 year old schedules and 9 months with the youth team schedules 3/4 stars potential trained first for 1 year old schedules and 9 months with the youth team schedules 3,5/4,5 stars potential trained first for 1 year old schedules and 9 months with the youth team schedules 4/5 stars potential trained for 9 months in the youth team (trains passing) Will upload the training schedules tomorrow.

Me neither, the little I tried during testing weakened performance. The solution is probably small subtle OI's for very few of the opposition players. Either 1 or 2 players with weaknesses to exploit, or 1-2 players with strengths to avoid, or both for two players. Update 27the December 26-27: CL: Already qualified for the last 16 League

Thanks, do you have any thoughts on using OI's and how that possibly could strengthen the tactic? Different match scenarios etc. I haven't come there yet that I have any clear ideas. Use the PSG match as an example, is there anything OI's could have done to strengthen your chances.

Hi coach vahid, Glad to see it working for you. That is an impressive performance with EA Guingamp. With intense/high press very fluid tactics can be defensively solid. I am curious about what are the team cohesion level for your team ?

From 15th July to 14th of December in holiday mode, the youth team only trained position with individual focus. In regard to tactical familiarity for role playing regularly and not training on the role the provisional conclusions are: If the player trains position (natural) used in your formation and plays in that position tactical familiarity for role will be maximum (verified by applying CWB support as training role) If the player trains position (natural) similiar to one used in your formation and plays in that position tactical familiarity for role will be almost maximum (i.e. AMC vs MC) - (verified by applying CM support as training role) If the player trains position (natural) not used in your formation tactical familiarity for role will be medium (i.e. MR playing AML) - (verified by applying IW support as training role) Using this schedule with different versions for number of matches and matchdays for the experiment and training solely positions and individual focus ballcontrol for all players (NB!!! No set-pieces trained, overall progress technical attributes affected by this, other attributes than set-pieces increase): 3,5/4,5 stars potential player: 3/4 stars potential player: 2,5/3,5 stars potential player: 2/3 stars potential player: The training schedule might not be optimal, still for developing players in the youth team towards a club DNA this could be an useful approach. Tailor the schedules and sessions towards developing the type of young players suitable for the first team tactics. Apply the first team training schedules for the reserves to train and prepare players for the roles in the first team tactic.

Has anyone checked how tactical role familiarity increases when a player is not trained the role but plays regulary in the role? Has anyone tested only position training with individual focus, where the last and the sessions in the training schedules to a larger degree decides which attributes are trained? Which training unit your player is placed in can have great or little impact on which attributes are trained. The impact can be checked by looking at your training schedules and how the different training units are affected by them. In example a lot of general sessions will have minimal differences/impact, and the more specialised sessions with emphasis on a specific training unit can have a greater effect/impact.

Currently not using any OI's. Sensible use would probably strengthen performance. My impression is that OI's has the best effect against stronger teams if they are well applied. There is a probability that performances with this tactic can be related to training, mine are focused on match preparation sessions, this can have an effect.

Quick update: 24-25: PSG won the cup and the CL this season. Rennes knocked out of the CL in the knock out playoff round (after league phase) and the 11th round of the cup. Possession at 62%. 25-26: Knocked out of the CL in the knock out playoff round (after league phase) and the quarter final of the cup. Possession at 63%. 26-27: Champions league and the french cup has priority...

You will focus strongly on individual focus and most likely have significant improvement on these attributes, also the different used sessions will apply to a higher degree. Actually this is a good idea, especially for youth training.

You mean he is just training the position and not assigning any roles? I believe that the effect of training sessions will be stronger, can be suitable for younger players when training them towards the clubs DNA. If possession football is the DNA a lot of suitable sessions will ensure that the required attributes are focused upon.

A little update 1,5 season into a long term save game. First season not very spectacular, untill late February/early March Rennes were at the same amount of points as PSG. Maybe due to taking more risk in matches to keep pace with PSG suddenly things went worse. A streak of losses and draws led to PSG pulling away and other teams bypassing Rennes in the table. Knocked out of the EURO conference and national cup as well. Finished 4th and possession at 60% and shared 1st place in the Ligue 1. Team cohesion reached good understanding and in fairness the squad is young and not able to compete at the highest level, atleast not in three competitions. Matic sold in January and Lafont (SK) brought in during November. The U19 team won the national championship: Season 2024-25: Brought in Roauld (CD), Kral (DM) and Kilicsoy (IW), the last two on free transfer. The youngsters have developed further and the squad looks much stronger. Team cohesion has increased: The aim is to win the league and that has priority, this leads to the best eleven is used in league matches and the 2nd best eleven used for Champions League. The aim is to reach the knock out rounds of the CL. Fixture list so far: League table: League stats: CL: CL stats: So far in the 2024-25 season balanced mentality (counter) version has been used a lot and positive version in home matches expected to win. The attacking mentality version have been used when a goal is needed and it has worked well. For the last period of matches this is changing as opponents are being more defensive and the positive version is also used in away matches, as well as attacking version in home matches. The mantra is still to reduce risk and continue to safeguarding wins/points during matches. The tactic is working very well and the pressing efficiency is very good. Offensively the passing and teamplay is also very good. A small change has been made for season 2024-25. Removed TI get stuck in and ease of tackles for the front three. Balanced version has counter as TI as well. Tactics: TeamWorkRate_Balanced.fmfTeamWorkRate_Positive.fmfTeamWorkRate_Attacking.fmf

Me as well. The last tactic is developed from the tactic used for FM22/23. I tried all the new roles/positional rotation roles, tried the 2-3 and 3-2 rest defence (termed this by a user in this forum), really liked and enjoyed playing with them. Still, I am grounded in the 4-3-3/3-4-3 tradition and really like the balance it gives, the tactical principles are still the same if you use a 3-4-3 or 3-2-5 just different positions maintaining the different principles. To use a positional rotational role there must be a valid reason, in example at City Stones has great ability to pass the ball, this can/should be utilized to benefit the team by him acting in the role described in FM24 as libero. At the current Rennes squad their abilities is best utilized with a more traditional approach, by wide defenders maintaining width. Might be obvious, but me as well. In a modern 3-2-5 / 2-3-5 the wingers/wide attackers maintain width, in this tactic the CWB do this. Modern tactic has Mezzala's challenges the half-space, in this tactic the IW's does this. Instead of 3-2 or 2-3 rest defence this tactic uses 2-1-2 (in between those), where the CM's are part of the rest defence and providing a good balance in the tactic. They will as the libero or IW's surge forward on occasions. First of all there is a lot of roaming (DLF/IW's/CM's/CWB's) Shorter passing for all players (This futhers decreases passing length from the TI much shorter passing) Shoot less often for all players CD's stay wider (enables them to a higher degree as passing outlets for forward players being pressured) CWB's stay wider/run wide with ball (main width holders in the tactic / stretch the opponent when running wide with the ball) DM holds position to be more conservative in his positioning (defend duty is possible) IW's gets further forward/sits narrower The front three eases of tackles, as they most likely will not have good tackling ability and to avoid injuries. Sure, that would be interesting, I am eager to hear your perspectives, best way to learn and get new ideas The tactic for sure has room for improvement/tweaks. This tactic was tested with both DLF and CF on support, both works very well and it is not carved in stone that the DLF is the optimal solution. Needs to play for a couple of seasons to give the verdict if one is better than the other.

Maybe, tiki taka is a term often referred to. It is Guardiola's tactics that interests me and he has expressed his opinion on tiki taka. Guardiola is all about is quick passing even though the build-up can be slow, if there is an opportunity to counter/attack fast it will be taken. No contradictions in my books and I would describe it as careful/cautious build-up with quick passing, especially when pressured. In FM the positioning of players and passing options together with TI's and PI's can lead to high tempo tiki taka(ish)/possession based style of play, with the same careful/cautious build-ups. Rather than tempo as the describing factor for such styles of play are collective pressing, players positioned in close proximity of each other which enables positional/numerical advantages for quick and short passing, as well as quick transitions (close proximity for both pressing and attacking). In FM24 this can be translated to fluid/very fluid team fluidity, narrow attacking width and trap outside (narrow width in defense as well). As well as some artistry as seen in video below Football Manager 2024 2023-11-20 18-38-18.mp4 The tactic below by far is closest to acchieving collective pressing and in possession play I want to see in my tactic (so far only change is to switch between balanced, positive, attacking mentality depending on opponent/match scenario): TeamWorkRate_Balanced.fmf Since the beta I haven't really played the game as a normal save game, most of the time with FM24 has been about tactics and finding a satisfying and solid tactic to use in a long term save game. This is done by holiday mode between matches and training/squad management is not fully taken care of. This tactic is looking promising. Beating PSG away in the league in the first season is kind of an acid test when testing tactics with Rennes. This tactic acchieved that. I believe that fluid/very fluid tactics which is all about teamwork/collectiveness is especially dependant on team cohesion and relations between the players (arrows on tactics screen), in the winter of 24 just one arrow is formed and team cohesion is only at a good level.

At the 63rd minute possession is starting to decrease and they had one big opportunity, establishing attacks in our half. The end result of this attack was a shot on goal, shots (on target) 2 (1) and xG of 0.63. Switch to tactic version with balanced mentality and counter for offensive transitions. Maybe not the best example, counter attacks were unsuccesful but for their next six chances created their xG was 0.44. No big chances created against but we were to passive.

If your team does not have the IFB's with pace and defensive positioning attributes to play this way you will punished for it. Had this been PSG with Mbappe playing this way would most likely lead to hockey scores against your team. In this match we were okay and nothing came out of the counter. This happened in the 38th minute and up 2-0, so I decide to switch to the version of the tactic with positive mentality to further control the match by more considerate passing.

See my previous answer to joandrle regarding a set of tactics based on the same tactical style to use in different match scenarios/in-match scenarios. Regarding 3-2, 2-3 or 2-2 shape at the back. There are a lot of roles that can gives this and positional rotation. Even though my tactic uses certain roles the players in your squad might be better suited to using other roles. IFB, IWB (support), HB, LIB (support) have all been tested and are inviting/tempting to use. If you test one of my tactics and your players are better suited to other roles, you should change the roles and still try to acchieve the overall set-up of the shape at the back (3-2, 2-3, 2-2). Regarding the match/in-match scenarios an "easy" home match can serve as an example: Starting with the version of the tactic on attacking mentality to dominate and create chances. Image below show how the rigth IFB (Assignon) contributes with traditional fullback play on the right flank, the left IFB stays back and the DM -defend duty (Santamaria) also pushes up. Using the HB role for the defensive midfielder would have kept to players staying back. Attacking width is narrow so the DM(defend) and the two Libero's (support) pack the middle of the pitch, this leaves space for the CM's staying wider (more like channel movement) and the IF's out wide. Ideally diagonal/vertical passes shuld be enabled when they receive the ball. Watch the match on minimum extended highlights, this tactical version are vulnerable to counter attacks, so when the below incident occurs I consider changing to a more conservative version of the tactic.

I would recommend to have a set of versions of the same tactic for different scenarios. In example playing as Barca against a weaker opponent likely to sit back and protect you use a version of your tactic aiming to dominate the match and creating chances. A different scenario is playing away against Real, Man City, Liverpool and so on, here you should use a version of the tactic aiming to counter and prevent goals against without comprimising your overall tactical style. A third version should be in the middle between those two other versions of the tactic. I am currently trying to figure out to do this with the same roles and fluidity for all three versions of the tactic, as well as achieving intensity lower than the extremes. So far, using one with balanced mentality and counter, positive mentality, and attacking mentality. For you and your team you should try to figure out yourself a template of your style of play, tailor the three different versions of the tactic from that template. All the tactics I write about are from my thinking, they might not be optimal for how you want to play, not for the current ME as well.

Update Currently working on 2-3 versions of a tiki taka tactic. Keeping team fluidity at fluid and making a version with attacking mentality and 1-2 with positive mentality. Tactical work has mostly been concentrated on positioning and when in possession. This is what I want to acchieve in regard to positioning in possession: This is done with this tactic, added PI's are mainly positional with roaming (DLF, both CM's) and stay wider, as well as shoot less for all players. Possession at 84 % is acchieved in a home game in the league against mediocre opposition. Comment: Attacking width is standard but increasing to wide is considered. Needs more testing before final decision is made. In the first phase after positional rotation is done the teams shape is similiar to a 3-4-3 where the four midfield positions (LIB, DM, CM's) form a line. In the later phases the shape is a box where the CM's are staying wider than the LIB and DM. The two images below shows this: During testing and tweaking of tactic I have used the match analytics a lot. This is quite helpful for validating/correcting my assumptions of how the tactic is working. In regard to desired positioning in possession (first image) match analytics shows the following: Average positions in possession - looking for similar patterns as the first image, shown positions is the average positions for all phases of possessional play, also possession in own half and early build-ups so the overall average will be slightly skewed. Possession percentage can influence the average positioning in the match analytics, the lower the percentage the more divergence there can be between the intentional shape in the opposition half and average positions shown. Passing map gives further indication showing the average position on pitch when passing the ball. Here you also want to see fluid passing patterns utilizing all triangles/diamonds formed during in possession. Below is a link to the tactic, bear in mind that this is work in progress. Still, the tactic should be a good starting point for a tiki taka tactic if anyone wants to use it. The mentality is attacking and your opponents and venue (home/away) should be considered before using it. Dominate.fmf

Fully agree with you on this.

Team fluidity refers to how a team or its players coordinate and share tasks during a match. Match tasks typically involve defending, attacking, and transitioning between the two. Support duties contribute to both attacking and defending, while attacking and defending duties are more inclined towards tasks associated with either attacking or defending. A highly specific tactical system that dictates each player's tasks during a match is considered rigid, with very rigid fluidity representing an extreme form of this. This level of rigidity indicates a high degree of specialization in how tasks are meant to be executed during the game. Such a tactical setup assigns specific players to attack or defend, with a few players contributing to both through support duties. Increased discipline ensures players adhere to their designated duties and positional instructions. Rigidity can be effective if there is a clear plan for attacking or defending and if players possess attributes suited to their respective roles. On the other hand, acknowledging that not everything can be fully planned in advance and trusting players to handle emerging situations during matches characterizes a more fluid approach. This is achieved by assigning more support duties, allowing players to determine how to react to different scenarios and tasks. Fluid systems grant players the autonomy to decide when to attack, retain possession, press, or retreat during all phases of play, including transitions. This increased fluidity in task resolution empowers players to choose the most suitable option based on the situation, which is termed as fluid or very fluid in the game. Such fluidity can be suitable when players possess attributes that contribute to multiple aspects of the game (universalists/generalists). Prominent managers like Pep Guardiola, Jurgen Klopp, and Mikel Arteta employ fluid tactics, which demand versatility from players and the ability to perform various tasks. Sitting between rigid and fluid tactical styles is the flexible approach, which combines elements of both approaches to solve tasks. Fine-tuning this flexibility toward rigidity or fluidity can be achieved through tactical instructions (TIs) and player instructions (PIs). The label 'team fluidity' describes how your tactics are designed to handle tasks in accordance with the aforementioned approaches. This should serve as a guideline for your current tactical setup, aligning with your vision of how you want your team to play. Consider the following match situations: Scenario A) In a rigid tactical system, a player in a better position for a run behind the opposition's defense line might not be instructed to make the attacking run if not assigned the attacking duty. This rigidity can hinder the team's performance, contrasting the facilitation of the run if the best-positioned player were on attacking duty. Scenario B) In a fluid tactical system, players on support duty are allowed to decide who makes the attacking run based on their situational assessment and football intelligence, potentially increasing the chances of the best-positioned player making the run. Additionally, the player best suited for finishing off the move can be considered for the run. I consider fluidity as a crucial aspect of tactical styles. This descriptive label signifies how you have structured your team to play and handle tasks during matches. While it may be premature to draw conclusions, my impression of FM24 suggests that fluid systems are better suited for collective-oriented tactics, potentially enhancing collective pressing and the flow of passes. Players' reactions are more versatile, making this style well-suited for gameplay centered on teamwork and collective behavior."

It is hard to say, but since both save games were/are early in the season team cohesion/tactical familiarity might influence the results. Improving this rapidly is focus in the training schedules for a reason, first half of the first season I have also suffered from lousy results, but it has picked up as the season unfolds. Never getting sacked though... I don't know the players at the mentioned clubs very well, but they should be up to playing this way, have you compared the technical / mental stats of your club against the league average?

I had a go at your tactic for the Monaco game covered earlier. It is unfair against your tactic as tactical familiarity is around 50% percent for the team, even though Rennes lost this is impressive. Low xG for the opponent Very high possession away to a good team Lots of passes in the final third and progressive passes as well Low OPPDA for Rennes

That is impressive Will have a look at the tactic.

PI's are following the same line of thought as the FM23 tactic (gegenpressing version), except that IW's stay wider, CM's added stay wider/get further forward (due to no wingbacks and IW's for attacking width). The line of thought is that is my impression that possession numbers and pressing possibly ties stronger with team fluidity this year, meaning fluid/very fluid increases possession/quality of pressing, atleast for tactics with narrow attacking width. For fluid tactics with balanced/positive mentality minimum requirement is 6 outfield support duties. My preference is to play with IW's on attacking duty, but since I would have to alter the 3-2 build-up/rest defence to a 2-3 shape, I prioritized the defensive side of the game with just one attacking duty for the DLF to keep the 3-2 shapefor the big matches. It is a defensive measurement, not only in number of duties allocated to either attacking/defending but also for keeping possession and quality of pressing (tiki taka measurer to decrease risk). Playing with the IW's on attacking duty is preferred and alternatives to do this is: Alternatively changing to a 2-3 build-up is possible as this keeps the IW's on attacking duty, I have tried both central defenders as LIbero's with fullback inverted against 4-3-3 tactics, it has worked well for short tests.During testing consistently high possession numbers have been acchieved between 70-80 % against lesser teams, and in the 60's against equal/better teams (might improve by a well considered reducing risk for PI's when players has the ball). It is also worth looking at balanced mentality version of the tactic, this has been tried and should be a part of the arsenal of slightly different versions of the same tactical style. Alternatively change to attacking mentality as this reduces the required support duties for fluid tactics to 5. With this mentality both the 3-2 build-up and IW's attacking duty can be kept. Alternative 1 Alternative 2 Regarding PI's when a player has the ball, to reduce risk/increase possession reducing the dribbles, passing risk and crosses could be emphasized, as long as the positional play (triangles/diamonds) is working well the ball will be distributed and create chances. Positioning of players in relationship to eachother are having the biggest effect on passing (Passing risk, crossing, dribbling currently at mixed = players are free to decide). Two examples of how positioning affects passing and counterpress below, bear in mind randomness influencing results/statistics, stil it gives an first impression/slight idea of how this can work (click on image and switch between for easier comparison) 1st example - no changes to PI's playing with tactic from alternative 1 (balanced mentality and 2-3 build-up) 2nd example - MC's (stay wider/get further forward) and IW's (stay wider) changes to PI's playing with tactic from alternative 1 (balanced mentality and 2-3 build-up) Comments: The 2nd example's tactic decreased lateral/sideways compactness compared to the 1st example tactic. This has both benefits and drawbacks and the most likely impact is: The compact block/counterpress is weakened in the middle and the opponents increased both the xG and shots. Passed completed decreased for defence whilst increased for attack. Regarding defence the reason might be more diagonal passes as the comparison of passing patterns show. Regarding attack when IW's and CM's stay wider space opens up for the DLF and in the middle. This can clearly be seen by comparison of the passing patterns. More tackles and more tackles won for the 2nd example tactic. Possession in general (also interceptions) are acchieved higher up the pitch for the 2nd example tactic and in areas where players are positioned. Increased tackling ratio, efficiency and higher up the pitch might be due to Monaco playing a 3-4-2-1 AMC's with Wingplay. Opponents progressive passes reduced due to increased wide pressing for the 2nd example tactic, comparing avg. pos. out of possession, the team is positioned slightly higher up the pitch for this version. Final third passes increased sligthly for Monaco and significantly for Rennes with the 2nd example tactic. This can be seen by comparing passing patterns and the increased amount of passes higher up the pitch. The OPPDA sees fewer OPPDA for Rennes for the 2nd example tactic, This is due to more players wide and counter pressing Monaco on the flanks. The purpose of this reply is to show the interrelationship between positioning and the effect for both pressing and passing for the current tactical set-up. If I should draw any conclusions after the analysis it would be that the 1st example tactic (compact) is most suited against opponents that wants to attack and press, the team is compact and vertical passing enables exploitation of the space behind. The 2nd example tactic (wider PI's) can be more suited against teams sitting back by creating space and increased passing in the final third. The different approaches/versions can also be applied to counter opposition weaknesses and strengths. The tactics are the same except minor adjustments for PI's for players positioning when the team has the ball. Regarding emphasizing on symmetric tactics the benefit is versatility towards where to attack the opponents, probing play will find its way where there are openings (think of how water falls down a hill), still it would be much easier to abandon symmetry and concentrating on keeping attacking width at just one flank of the tactic, Guardiola does this in real life and on FM24 as well.