cmonreds

Perhaps I have spent to much time on tactics, after a while you don't see the wood for all the trees. For what the tactic should acchieve the obvious solution is a 3-2 build-up/rest defence with inverted fullbacks on each side, as well as utilizing a libero on support (John Stones role). Three at the back with the inverted fullbacks offer width and support on the flanks, this greatly increase the passing patterns with lateral, diagonal and vertical angles. Important benefit is that the IFB's sometimes also ventures forward and contributes as fullbacks when the circumstances are correct (Back three clearly outnumbering opposition forwards staying forward). Rennes in white colours in image below: In possession with the ball in central areas the shape of the team is spread out in a fan formation. The tactic are in two versions: Flexible fluidity TeamWorkRate_433 - 325 build up_IFB's LIB_flexible.fmf Fluid (Against strong opposition, used to win the CL in third season) TeamWorkRate_433 - 325 build up_IFB's LIB.fmf

Thanks for advice man, you are pretty much spot on with your analysis. I tweaked at the end of January, got hammered against the big teams. Maybe i found the balance.. Will update later..

Tactic as reference for player roles/duties and positioning in the images I spent some time playing matches only focusing on positioning. All players roles where possible were given PI of cross less, take fewer passing risks, cross less often, dribble less and also no roaming in the beginning. The short passing and positioning of players created progression and clear cut chances. Next step is to optimize the PI's with risk reward towards loosing possession and creating chances. Also Guardiola during his reign at Barcelona (probably now as well), considered the impact of the strong foot of the pass receiver for the passing patterns.. I will have this at the back of my head when the real save game begins to see if it has an effect in FM24. Positioning in possession the middle third - centre - The CM's and IW's are staying wider. This creates more space for the DLF to drop into. Positioning in possession the middle third - flanks - Create triangles/diamonds wide to support the IW's (Important as they are staying wider with attacking duty in a tactic with narrow attacking width) Positioning in possession the final third - flanks - Create triangles/diamonds wide and support the IW's - The DM (Santamaria) positions higher up the pitch (Due to CM's staying wider) - considered a roaming playmaker for this role, but didn't want the playmaker to be a ball magnet (with riskier passes) which disturbs the natural passing patterns enabled by players positioning. Still, there is an unfullfilled potential with the DM role in using the available space created in the middle of the pitch early on and when DLF roams to the flanks or take an attacking position higher up. Positioning in possession the final third - centre - The ball has just entered the final third and the DM (Santamaria) forward runs occurs late, preferrably this should be exploited earlier.

Interesting tactic, you use the 3-2 build-up/rest defence. What attacking width are the tactic? Are you familiar with the term minimum width? Will update later on the tactic, I am very satiesfied now for how the players position themselves in the middle and final third when in possession. Went for fluid team fluidity and a 2-3 build-up/rest defence. Will work on a version with 3-2 build-up for the big matches as well.

DLF is pressured, backward pass and ball cirulated to the rigth diamond, the team is probing for an opening. Vertical pass into the final third to the right IW . An immediate cross on the first touch where the DLF and left IW are in good positons to score. Celebrations This is a good example of positional play and how I imagined the team would attack, right of the handbook. This is old school, adjusting to and using the new positional rotation roles (well suited for 3-2-5 / 2-3-5 / 2-5-3 build ups) changes things a little bit for me, the IW's alternatively wingers must stay wide and the link up play with the DLF might suffer from this. Currently I am trying to figure out how to acchieve the right diamonds/triangles for the teams shape by using them. The big benefit of acchieving that is good defensively balance in the centre of the pitch, which is important when trapping outside.

2nd backwards pass from CM to CD. The team are in total control, if pressured there are lots of safe passing options (also safe passes backwards). The ball is circulated to the other flank.. 5-10 passes later the ball has reached to furthest player in the middle diamond (DLF dropping deep). This is a decent attacking scenario, the opponents whole defensive third is available/free space..

Looking forward to it. The ideal setup for me is without the new roles see screenshot below (except the HB which is used together with WB's to play against opponents that are strong in the centre of the pitch ), it allows for narrow attacking width (good transition to defence AKA counter press for my preference), IW's attacking duty positoned narrow to exploit the channels/space behind defence line which a DLF on support or F9 dropping deep creates, WB's on support that maintaining width in all phases/thirds of the possessional play Screenshot tactic: On the pitch balll in own third: Positioning is good, lots of diamonds/triangles that enables diagonal/vertical passing. If a player is pressured there are lots of passing options. On the pitch ball in middle third: Only diagonal or vertical passes made to transfer the ball into the middle third. Abline (DLF support) has dropped deep as well Le Fee receives the ball and the first backwards pass as he is under pressure. continues below...

Impressive numbers for possession and passing accuracy Look at the final thirds statistics for for your division, there should be a correlation there by you ranking very high in that as well. I am curious where on the pitch/which zones do you have possession? With the FM23 tactic between 46-52 % where on the oppositions half, currently much lower percentage for the current tactic. It is all about positional play, creating triangles/diamonds/passing lanes that regularly occurs during matches with your tactic, they should enable diagonal and vertical passes as an option for the player with the ball, lateral passes from the sides of the box. Try to imagine the build up during the different phases: 1) How are your players positioned for the goal kick 2) Own third / middle third / final third, especially the last is important for creating chances, what are the runs? which space do you threaten? how many players do you have in the box? Ideally all channels should be utilized, what are your formation? Striker/winger roles? Central midfield roles? I have been looking at fluid/very fluid team fluidity in the process, I might follow that path further... 2) Also consider the phase, where player roles/duties/TI/PI kicks in (For the positional player roles, the positioning applies when your team is established/secure in posession) Draw each phase on paper for your own clarity. First how you believe your current tactic behaves, secondly how you ideally want it to behave, if there is a mismatch it is easier to adress it this way. I am currently working on it as I am not satisfied with the positioning and diamonds/triangles with my current tactic, the results where decent but as I started to watch matches on comprehensive there is room for improvement. Especially the positional rotation roles are new and I try to find the purpose of why I should use one of theme, there has to be a benefit either positional or by utilizing a certain players attributes. The easiest way is to increase width/vertical compactness which alters positions and angles for passes, but this is at the expense of the pressing block and effective counter press. I guess I am searching for the optimum for both possession and out of possession for the tactic. Feel free to share your tactic in the thread

Nice to hear, please share if you succesfully tweak the tactic or find flaws in it. Good luck with your season

I am into the third season, started the save with the FM23 gegenpress version, it still works well but is intensive and wears on the squad. TI's and PI's have gradually been changed to reduce intensity with the end result being a tiki taka style of play. Possession as a defensive measure and controlling matches are some of the aims. The tactic should be defensively solid, acchieve high possession numbers and have good xG numbers. The second league match for the third season I started to use the FM24 tactic and had to retrain some players roles, as well as gaining tactical familiarity with the tactic. Things are going quite well considering the young squad, decent in ability but mostly future potential. The last match played against relegation strugglers Troyes: Priority (best players used) is to qualify for the knockout rounds of CL. Often playing with youngsters in the league matches. League table, PSG played one game more than Rennes: Champions League, lost against Chelsea. Matches played: Numbers: Best numbers for possession, pass completion and goals scored. This one is important, Rennes have a spare match and most likely will surpass PSG with around 100 final 3rd passes when even in matches: Numbers in Europe: Matches has been watched on key highligths during the first two seasons, decisions on changes have mainly been made on metrics and numbers. Now in the third season matches are watched on extended/comprehensive mode as the first season only using the FM24 tactic. There might be tweaks, improvements and complementary versions of the tactic based on what is seen during matches. Regarding defending corners we have conceded a few from runner at the near post. Tactical/set-pieces flaw or down to player attributes? If the first it will be corrected.

FM 24 version of tactic and training schedules TeamWorkRate_3-4-3_box build-up.fmf Set Pieces_tiki taka_(Pep_Barca).fmf Pre Season.fmf No Match.fmf1_Friday.fmf1_Saturday.fmf1_Sunday.fmf2_Tuesday_Saturday.fmf2_Tuesday_Sunday.fmf2_Wednesday_Saturday.fmf2_Wednesday_Sunday.fmf2_Thursday_Sunday.fmf The tactic is now purely tiki taka with lower intensity. It is narrow in possession which couples well with counter press. Tactical changes Wide defenders moved from wingback to fullback position and the role of Inverted fullback This gives good amount of width in the defence line during possession, as well as the inverted fullback contributes further up the pitch as passing outlets and the occasional overlap. For narrow attacking width and IW's with PI sit narrower this is important for play in the wide areas. Half back changed to defensive midfielder support Left DC changed from Central defender to Libero support Image below shows the 3-2 build up where Theate is Libero support Offensive transition changed from counter to hold shape All hard tackling removed and applying TI stay on feet Some changes to set-pieces copying Pep Guardiola's set-pieces when managing Barcelona Comments to the training schedules TBA

Hi yonko, It is a good suggestion which I haven't tried yet. I have been meticulous in squad rotation and making sure that players with high injury risk is not played, as well as substituing more during matches. Improvements made are: The squad size is expanded from 23 (3 GK = a GK is the 23th "extra" player) to 26 ("Extra" GK, Defender, Midfielder, Attacker) to prevent players with high injury risk from playing. Expanded the number of physios as well. Also the Rennes reserve team were not playing in the National 2 the first season, this made it harder to keep players the "extra" players match fit. The 2nd season they are playing in the National 2 league and extra players are match fit when needed. This has led to a decrease in injuries and in reality it hasn't been an issue, as per 5 October 2024: In regard to player development the schedules are working very well (General, individual training handled by manager for 1st, reserves and U19 teams): Jaquet, 19 years, Individual focus quickness: Belocian, 19,5 years, individual focus quickness: Doue, 19 years, individual focus passing/attacking movement: Lambourde, 18,5 years, individual focus finishing/quickness The training schedules broadly increases attributes. It is possible to further narrow attributes increase in regard to the tactical style/preferences for attribute increase by applying two General possession sessions for Tiki Taka tactics and so on,, Set-pieces are not prioritized for training and attributes for this is decreasing. Ideally set-pieces instructions should reflect this by emphasizing short set-pieces and focusing on keeping hold of the ball.

Good explanations and logic behind your tactic, The thread as a whole is suberb in all possible ways

The rest after match is not counterproductive, it decreases injuries. The schedules presented in this thread leads to more injuries for first team regulars. The FM23 training schedules had a decrease of injuries by 60 % compared to expected injuries, as for the presented FM24 training schedules: The injuries are also for a longer time periods compared to the FM23 schedules. Players responds well to the presented training schedules with broad development of attributes and rotational players having a lesser amount of injuries. As per 03 December 2023: Theate age 23,5 years with 4 star potental: Assignon age 23,5 years with 3 star potental: Doue D. age 18,5 years with 4/5 star potental (squad rotation): Kalimuendo age 21,8 years with 4/5 star potental: Jacquet age 18,5 years with 4/5 star potental (squad rotation): Belocian age 18,75 years with 4/5 star potental (squad rotation): Lambourde age 17,9 years with 4/5 star potental (squad rotation): In general U19 players responds well to the training schedules: Diallo age 16,9 years with 3.5/4.5 star potental (U19): Akwa age 16,75 years with 3.5/4.5 star potental (U19): Thebault age 16,75 years with 3.5/4.5 star potental (U19): The presented schedules are not optimal as they increase injuries, either squad size (currently 23) must be increased or the training schedules should be adjusted with fewer training session / more rest.

I am pondering about what happens if instead of training player roles with duty instead players are trained for just the position. Will this lead to increased versatility and reduced penalty for tactical familiarity in example by switching between Wingback and Inverted Wingback role? The penalty/reduced tactical familiarity is the main reason why I haven't used versions of the tactic that change the player roles. If anyone has an answer to this or have tried to train only positions your feedback would be appreciated.

Principles for training schedules Find the optimum between player development, decrease injury risk/fatigue, increase condition/sharpness/team cohesion/happiness/tactical familiarity Match Practice has priority as they train attributes for Individual Roles (Specialization of attributes) General sessions (dark blue) are preferred as they also increase team cohesion/as well tactical familiarity related to the general sessions theme (Broad training of attributes) Try to balance/portion the training intensity (GK/DEF/ATT below schedule) evenly throughout the week and below 40% (Hover the pointer over the bar) Designing the training schedule with Rest sessions on: One Rest session on Mondays (In case of away match on Sunday and travels), the same for the day before and after Match day (In case of away matches and travels) Rest sessions: Pri 1) apply Recovery sessions if <7 used to reduce injury risk and increase team cohesion Pri 2) if 7 Recovery sessions is used apply Match Tactics session (limit per week 3) to increase cohesion/familiarity For Pre Season arrange only Home matches or matches to avoid travelling - NB !!! The schedules presented are not tested for a whole season. Example is screenshot below (1 match Friday) Three Rest sessions: Dependant of Home or Away match and if a match is played on Sunday 1 Recovery Session or 2 Match Tactics sessions can be applied, alternatively do nothing and keep the Rest sessions.

Hold Shape is the TI for offensive transitions. Still the IW's positioning are interplaying/influenced by the runs/positioning of teammates nearby. Examples: Original version of the tactic: PI stay narrower for IW's, as well as WB's maintaining width on the outside of the IW's further "pushes" the IW's inwards. Box midfield of the tactic: PI stay wider for IW's, as well as MC's roles changed to Mezzala's occupying the half-spaces further "pushes" the IW's outwards (towards the byline). Training needs work as it was based upon Match preperation sessions focusing on training individual roles attributes as well as teamwork/tactical famililarity/team cohesion. There are fewer of these sessions in FM24. I am currently testing training schedules based on the same principles as for FM23. When the season is finished and if players develope well I can upload them. Give the tactic a go Bear in mind I am still using the original version, the box midfield was to have a look at the positional play roles. The 3-2-5 build-up and attacking shape is trending these days, attacking duties for the WB's enables this in the original version of the tactic, I haven't tested this though. If you experiment/change the tactics please share your findings.

The changes were just to test out/have a look the positional rotation roles in the context of an overall 3-4-3 structure during a match. I have not played enough with these to changes to decide if they are better and are still playing with the original tactic. Still I liked how the players positioned with these roles.

F9 (Bertug Yildirim)

Regarding the roles for positional play Altering the 3-4-3 midfield to a box shape shown in the screenshot below. Formation changed by dropping the wingbacks to the fullback position. IW's main provider of width. (Hold shape for offensive transition). Back 3: Belocian = Inverted fullback / Left FB position Santamaria = HB (unchanged) / DM position Jacquet = CD (unchanged) / Right DC position Midfield 4 (box): Wooh = Libero support / Left DC position Doue G. = Inverted Wingback (support) / Right FB position Bourigeaud = Mezzala (support) / Left MC position (swap with right MC position) Doue D. = Mezzala (support) / Right MC position (swap with left MC position) Front 3: Salah = Inverted Winger (Attack) / AML position (swap position with AMR): PI stay wider, as well as Mezzala pushing up into channels leads to wider positioning of IW's Bertug Yldirim = Advanced Forward (Attack): Could be interesting to explore F9/DLF role for this position. Lambourde = Same as for Salah

Thanks for the tip, will keep that in mind

You can play with the FM23 version, still works. I haven't get to grasps with the set-pieces editor yet. Choosed keep possession/work ball into box for throw ins, inswinging first post and push up for corners. Defending corners is done with all players going back.

I have just speed-tested the tactic imported into FM24 to gain a first impression of how it works. Since the original tactic (FM23) used only one of the positional rotational roles new in FM24 there is not too much of a difference. The HB role has improved in my opinion and now more consistently positioned between the two central defenders. 'The back three is positioned a little too narrow for my preferences (Attacking width at the narrowest), an in-depth look at the game is needed to clarify the impact of this and if need to altering this by adjusting other instructions. I want the transitions to be fast either way, similar width (offence/defence) enables this, when players are positioned close together both for collective pressing as well as fluid short passing with teammates close by. Also positional roles can affect the transitions when players are changing/moving out of defensive positions, thoughtful considerations has to be made for how it affects the desireed shape and style of play. It can be utilized for altering the tactic against different formations/styles of play and match scenarios, as well as creating depth (utilizing more stratas) within the overall shape of the tactic. I need to dwelve into the set-pieces editor to optimize the instructions in relation to the original tactic (FM23). Guardiola's tacticsal style is changed to tiki taka, my tactic is a hybrid between vertical tiki taka and gegenpress (Gegenpress according to FM24). Possession wise hold shape instructions for offensive transistions as well as utilizing F9/DLF and changing the HB role could be options if increasing possession is wanted. Possession is currently at 62% and highest in the Ligue 1. In Uefa Europa League at 5ht with 61%. This is expected to increase when tactical familiarity/team cohesion is improved. Training needs work as it was based upon Match preperation sessions focusing on training individual roles attributes as well as teamwork/tactical famililarity/team cohesion. There are fewer of these sessions in FM24. Out of possession In possession Results

When the time comes there will be FM24 versions of both the tactic and training schedules. I am on a break from playing right now, but it is exciting with the new roles and positional rotation in FM24, give it a try yourself and please share your findings.

The four games played this evening: