Junkhead

1- DOF appointments should work exactly like affiliate clubs. There is no way that an inexperienced Sunday League level manager goes into a club and starts uprooting long tenured DOFs. When the user has built up a successful reputation, he should be given either the option to install who he wants or, even better, given options. In the meantime, the board should always be in charge of hiring/firing the DOF. 2- Over time the user builds certain attributes or traits and favourite formations. The influence of the DOF should be considerably higher, impacting job appointments - IE long tenured DOF has control possession favoured approach, yours is long ball. The two do not align, which should decrease the chances of you getting the job. If you do, the DOF should be on your case to change things, particularly if you have a difficult start. 3- Better logic around retaining managers as DOFs at the start of the game. If the user chooses a starting club with a popular or successful Manager in place, the option to "retain as DOF" shouldn't be there - it should be mandatory. Case in point - Southport, manager Liam Watson. Multiple spells at the club, down as favoured personnel, and irl is on the board of directors. When choosing Southport at the start, the board would be looking to retain Liam Watson (particularly as he is on the board himself ) and he would hold much more influence than the current model allows.

DOF is above the manager in a club hierarchy irl though. This isn't really represented well in game. One of the first things I do at a new club for realism is switch hire/fire of DOF to the chairman or MD in responsibilities. Should be one of those things that you can only control yourself after a long period of time at the club, like picking an affiliate. Liam Watson is also on the board at Southport. They would 100% retain him in some capacity.

Not sure of the answer, but I misread the title as "Football Manager Cosplay" so here I am

You have been polite - I think something has been lost in translation here

I am afraid I'm not quite sure what you are asking here. If I've read it right, you're asking if I mind if you make requests of SI that could change the LLM play style rules. I don't mind, and even if I did, tough! The game belongs to everyone.

Each club has their own budget, each club has their own reputation and each town and city an attraction value that dictates the chances of a player moving to the club. It's already there. I do think ai squad building could be improved at all levels, but I think the big question here is - how many of the other 20-22 clubs in your division- semi pro or amateur - have signed a team full of premier league drop outs? I suspect the answer is none. I would even wager that none of the other clubs have signed a SINGLE free transfer direct from a prem academy. If that's the case, then the answer is self regulation.

Cheers @Brother Ben, knew you would be able to filter a spreadsheet somewhere or what have you - @rristola, think the budgets of these amateur clubs in the vanilla game will give a far more realistic view of where the game is re. amateur teams rather than editor enabled leagues. Understand what you are saying about a blanket rule for lower league teams, and I am not sure how things are in Finland, but in the UK there can be massive differences in the size and financial capabilities of clubs at lower levels. Teams like Rushden, Salford, Gretna etc spring to mind as relatively recent examples of clubs who had insane budgets compared to the rest of their divisions, so a fair rule limiting most clubs would unfairly restrict them and be unrealistic. The size difference of clubs at National League (level 5) in England is huge - Wrexham, Notts County and Oldham are absolutely massive clubs compared to Altrincham and Maidenhead. I think the issue you are talking about is likely that concessions are made to accommodate the user. I bet not a single other club in level 8 offered a contract to a premier League drop out in your save, and even if they did, no one else had 9 of them in their first 11. Not that you've done anything wrong, but what I'm saying is that I don't think limiting entire leagues is the way to go, rather decreasing the likelihood of a premier League drop out signing for a human controlled level 8 club.

In my experience, the budgets and transfer options of teams at the lowest "official" level, IE. The conference north/south are about right. I suspect that the issue you mention with level 8/9 will be that they are additional leagues so there is no officially supported reality to mirror. It might be interesting too look at a couple of teams in the vanilla database who start as amateur though, if there are any. I don't know if there are (there used to be queen's park, but not anymore) - @Brother Ben may have come across some.

Thank you for the confirmation here guys, was letting my low opinion of UEFA drive my logic without actually looking into it. Is the new format in FM22?

If Omonia don't come in the bottom 12 with that fixture list, then all power to them If it was really about fairness and competition and trying to give teams from smaller nations a fighting chance, then the original European Cup format would never have been changed. But again, I don't want to derail the thread. I am glad from a realism perspective that the change will be in the game.

Without getting too off topic, I have zero doubt that the new 36 team system where you play only 8 other teams will ultimately serve to benefit teams like Barca and Juventus at the expense of smaller teams from less fancied nations. The more of the "big" clubs that go deep in the competition, the more money UEFA and their sponsors make. Will make the "group stages" pointless when a team like Omonia is four games in and has lost to Barca, Juve, Real Madrid and City with Bayern, Liverpool, Dortmund and Athletico left to play. And if it isn't seeded this was initially, it will be eventually.

I cannot imagine that there is a single premier League youngster that is dropping down to level 8 / amateur level irl. Not the same summer they are released, anyway. The ONLY way I would personally be able to justify this in my head would be if he was from the town/village that my amateur team was based and was "returning home". I wouldn't expect to keep him for long. Yes, if I was SI I would be looking to make things as realistic as possible but I understand there needs to be balance. I can't imagine the game would sell many copies if it forced you to play the LLM way.

I am 100% commited to FM22 this cycle, I think. Certainly until the January patch. Was going that way anyway, but personally not pulled in by the new features. The interactive timeline feels like a re-skin of information that is already there, and I genuinely enjoy manual squad planning with lists of my current squads and comparison screens between potential signings screen printed and saved to my phone so I can do this kind of stuff outside of the game when commuting, etc. I'm exactly where I want to be with additional leagues and realism mods etc and have just begun a long term save.

I think it's relative to the other sides in the division too. A smaller club in the Vanarama National probably has less ground to make up Vs the bigger clubs, whereas a tiny team in Serie C in with clubs like Foggia, Messina, Catania, Palermo etc is miles behind. There are a number of other leagues with massive differentials in club size at the lowest ends, like Spain, Turkey and Argentina.

I would be considering roles they are used in. If I am signing a young player for the future then I am going purely on attributes and scout reports for the most part as I can mould them. If I am looking for someone for the first team and I play a patient controlled possession tactic with narrow flank players, then the assists of an out and out winger or goals of someone who played purely as a target man are irrelevant.

Until a few versions ago, the player search function displayed pretty much every player in the world. This, combined with playing without attribute masking, meant you could filter by attributes and find the perfect player. Although managers will have computers, googling "free transfer centre backs with at least 14 tackling" isn't at all realistic. Nowadays the player search function is actually part of your scouting package and, with attributes hidden or masked, I personally agree that it is not so much of a no no. However, I personally would ALWAYS scout or trial players before signing. For me though, this is a last resort, and it's what drives me to hire new/different scouts. The point of having scouts is that I don't have to do these manual searches. If I sign four players over a season and three are a result of me reviewing the scouting package search and manually sending scouts, I'm sacking my scouts. If my scouts are any good I shouldn't ever have to use the search. The 60-90 minute or 50-100 miles rule is first of all subjective to the size of the country. I think that's reasonable for the UK, but probably not for Brazil. I would also consider a couple of other things. If I am managing Blyth in the north east and I am choosing between two generally equal potential signings, then I am choosing the one born in Leeds and playing for Halifax over the one born in Southampton and playing for Eastleigh. That being said, if the Southampton born player spent 3-4 years at Sunderland earlier in their careers, then they are fair game as far as I am concerned as they would likely have links, friends, partners etc from there. Also, if the player appears in my scouting reports because he/his agent have offered him directly to my club, I would consider him regardless of any distance rules, much like I would if I was hiring someone to work in an office - yes your previous employment is 300 miles away, but you've applied for the job, so I am going to assume you've thought about this and are up for the move. Hope this helps, but remember - although generally Llama/realism rules are quite universal or similar, it is your game and therefore about your enjoyment. If you can rationalize something that others are telling you is unrealistic, then don't change what you are doing to please others. Just have fun.

Not read any of my posts before, have you

Pretty certain I won't be buying FM23 due to my inability to get into a save in FM22 (and because my PC is dying and I've still not bought a replacement), I've started a new (hopefully long term) FM22 proper LLM save. Just rocked up at my first club, Cobh Ramblers, and have to say they have a vision even I might be able to achieve...

When taking over a team at the start of a save, this is sometimes an option, but it feels quite inconsistent. Few examples from Conference North/South; Southport - Current manager is Liam Watson, has had multiple spells at the club, has won a promotion with them previously, down as favoured personnel - cannot be retained Welling - Current manager is former England caretaker Peter Taylor, decades of experience at much higher level clubs, reputation wise easily the best manager at this level, and almost 70 - cannot be retained St Albans - Current manager is Iain Allinson, decent manager at this level but has had an average spell at St Albans. Already have a very capable DOF in place in Dean Austin - Option to retain Allinson as DOF which in turn replaces Austin. Feels to me that these three examples should all have the opposite outcomes. Anyone got any idea what triggers this?

Over the last few weeks there seems to have been a lot of discussion about the limitations of the game when it comes to realism. Some players have said they find the game too simple, whilst others are trying to play realistically but can't due to the limitations of the game. As a serial lurker, it's resulted in me suddenly being far more active on the forums because it's something that is close to my heart. I try to play as realistically as possible at all times. When I load my save, I am no longer a bloke sat in his pants surrounded by three day old takeaway and empty beer cans. I am a football manager. In the dugout. In the dressing room. Sat opposite a chairman who cannot quite believe he has made the mistake of hiring me. Because I am awful. I've been playing the game since the very first Championship Manager and have owned almost all versions, but I'm still rubbish. Part of the reason for that is because my main aim in the game is to play realistically instead of winning at all costs. I have no doubt that this seems crazy to some, however for me it really is the taking part that counts, not just the winning. There used to be an area of the forums for lower league managers that was quite strict on realism, and that is where I first really thought about how I played. I adopted most of those rules, and still use them to this day. I know some of the regular users of that area of the forum are still about, but most no longer post. Having been contacted by a couple of people on DM about "realistic" play, I decided to log this thread so that it can be discussed. My hope is that the thread is visited by people who play in a similar way to me, people who play the LLaMa way, those who are interested in giving it a go, and those who aren't sure what is realistic or not. It's all fine. It isn't for everyone though, and if it isn't for you and you visit, then that's fine too - just say hi and move on The Rules My main concern is that people have fun with their game. It's not my job to set rules for the forum or thread, and for me this thread is about bringing people together. I will not tell you that you are not welcome to come and post here if you do certain things. That has been done on these forums before and it didn't end well. I do have some requests, however; 1- Player naming - if you find a cracking player or hidden gem then feel free to share it in the Good Player & Team area of the forum. But please try to avoid player naming here if possible. If you update us on your saves, just saying "tall striker" is enough so that those who want to know his name can work it out. Maybe they will DM you. However some of us like to find these hidden gems ourselves, so would prefer you didn't share names. 2- General tipping - there are lots of areas of the forum where you can get help on tactics and players, etc. We are interested in your progress, your mistakes, your saves and your thoughts. If you need help from someone as bad as me you're struggling. The point of playing realistically is to learn as you go. Please don't tell someone who is struggling how to resolve it within the thread. Offer to help in DM. They might be grateful but some of us want to work out way around things ourselves. 3- Bugs/overpowered stuff/glitches - as realistically as we want to play, this is a game. Sometimes it will do things which remind us of that. If you get a job offer which you believe isn't realistic, please let the developer know in the bugs forum and make your own decision on if to take it or not and carry on with your save. I wouldn't take it, but it's up to you. And that's it. I am fully prepared for this thread to disappear forever with zero responses, but I hope it doesn't. I hope some of you will find that playing like this reignites your passion for the game, and I'm looking forward to hearing about people's successes and failures as we go 👍👍