Tom Elliott
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Issue Comments posted by Tom Elliott
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Hi @VAraan1980 - thanks for posting.
To tackle those first points directly:
- Places of Birth: these are notoriously difficult to research, as information provided can be different from source-to-source, or not provided directly at all until a player is well-established. If you could provide some examples of players who have Places of Birth missing where this information is widely available, we'd appreciate knowing those so we can have them added.
- The 'Division' assigned in Player History is based on a club's competition history, and is auto-assigned from that. It is not directly set by a researcher, and so we'd need to know which specific clubs you're referring to, to look at that issue.
We make millions of changes every year and put great trust in our researchers to do the high-quality work that they do. We cannot really field wide-ranging statements such as 'no eye for detail' if we are not aware of the specific data issues you are coming across and experiencing - so please let us know and we'll be happy to help.
@FourFiveOne the issues raised for Lavia, Muja, Bushiri, Kayembe and Palmer have been resolved for a future data update. If you could provide specifics on which players have potentially incorrect/outdated attributes and positional ratings, we can discuss those with the relevant researchers. Cheers!
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16 hours ago, jamesw336 said:
Leicester
In Your World mode new signings such as Winks and Coady are in the squad and Maddison is already at Spurs.
Conor Coady and Harry Winks joined Leicester City on 1 July; James Maddison joined Tottenham Hotspur on 28 June. 'Your World' mode in England starts on the earliest date of 3 July, hence the players will already be at their new clubs on that date.
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16 hours ago, jamesw336 said:
Leicester
Have debts of £148M despite the owner wiping £194M of debt from the club.
The above article refers to money the club owed its immediate parent company, King Power International, which was converted to equity by KPI in December 2022. As detailed in the accompanying press release at the time, it does not include any other debts, of which the club has several.
The debts included in the game directly reflect outstanding debts from both Companies House registered charges and the club's 21/22 accounts, in no particular order:
- £47m taken out against future receivables payable by Chelsea for the transfer of Wesley Fofana, in a loan agreement with Macquarie Bank (Australian 'vampire' bank)
- £25.17m taken out against future receivables payable by Tottenham Hotspur for the transfer of James Maddison, in a loan agreement with Macquarie Bank
- £8.5m taken out since December 2022 with King Power International as a first instalment of a £58m standby pot
- £7.5m taken out since December 2022 with King Power International as the final instalment of an initial £42.5m loan
- £80m taken out with Macquarie Bank in August 2021 against Premier League TV rights receivables from September 2021 to February 2023 inclusive
- £20.17m payable to K Power Estates Holdings Limited (a sister company) as rent for King Power Stadium payable over 10 years at an 8% interest rate from 2021 onwards
In-game, as some of these debts have a 'Start Date' set prior to July 2023, some of the above £188m will have already been paid off, hence the figure of £148m you're seeing. I hope that makes sense - let me know if you have any further questions.
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23 hours ago, craigrnorman said:
Just picking up on this thread, I can understand why players who had wage drops after relegation would have their contracts increased back to previous levels after promotion. But why would players such as Harry Winks and Mavididi who joined in the summer also have 82% increases on promotion, that doesn't make any sense?
As noted above, this is under review.
On 02/11/2023 at 17:30, Tom Elliott said:I'd admit we should review some players' wages which were not reduced in the database by 45% (but rather a slightly lesser 25-35% amount) post-relegation, at Leicester. We'll review those for a future data update, along with some other player wages among new signings which may have been set erroneously high.
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16 hours ago, Turlo said:
Surely you could refer back to Leicester players wages from FM23 and calculate the wage increases to bring wages back to the same level should they get promoted in FM24? There might be the odd player who got a new contract during the 22/23 season but it wont be many at all.
Look at the top 3 earners in the Leicester squad and their new wages once promoted in FM24: Ricardo Pereira wages jump to 135k per week. James Justin’s up to 120k per week, Soumares up to 100k per week. These are all 15-20k higher than their wages at the start of FM23 while in the Premier League and none of these players were awarded with new contracts during the 22/23 season. If this pattern continues through the rest of the squad then its easy to see how Leicester have such an large overspend on wages at the start of the 24/25 season if they get promoted.
Indeed - this is why the number is 82% - in FM23, we had a bulk 45% relegation wage drop clause for the first team squad - an increase of 82% reverses a decrease of 45%.
It is, admittedly, an oversight that we did not set individual wage increases for those players whose wages were not reduced by a full 45%, and as mentioned in my previous reply, we'll review that for a future data update.
Having said that, the three wages you mention really do not seem extraordinarily large. Ricardo and Justin were among very few established first team players to sign renewed terms in the last two years, and will have been on at least £100kpw prior to relegation, from the calculations and estimations we've made. I think it is obvious that Leicester will still have a problem of a large wage bill next season, and that should be part of the FM experience upon promotion, of course. I do agree that some adjustments should be made, but we think we are on the right lines to have the clauses that do exist, on balance.
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57 minutes ago, dmayne07 said:
I understand the rationale but do we know that this actually happens in real life? As somebody who spends a lot of time reviewing contracts (not football employment ones granted) it seems strange an unwieldy to have a conditional clause, that is then based on another conditional clause.
Not experienced it myself but seen a couple of people play as Leicester and get promoted, only to be £350k-£400k in deficit on the wage bill when given their budgets which is not realistic of any promoted team (particularly at Leicester where a lot of the cash flow issues have been solved and it's likely there would be some significant investment if they are promoted next year). If you're keeping those clauses in, then surely finances of promoted teams need a big increase in wage budget to compensate for it.
I'd also suspect that a lot of clubs do not have much in the way of promotion clauses as that's not necessarily their aim and they certainly wouldn't have anything approaching 80%.
From what is reported in the media almost every year when clubs are relegated, we expect it is fairly common for Premier League contracts to have 35-45% relegation wage cuts written in, on average. The Daily Telegraph reported in May that for Leicester City, this would be up to 50%. Clearly, this is in place to protect the club in the event of losing a significant amount of revenue in the TV rights and prize money it loses being outside of the topflight. A club expected to challenge for immediate re-promotion such as Leicester or Southampton would likely have players agreeing to stay on the basis that their contract returned to a similar level of base pay upon that promotion, I'd anticipate.
I would be intrigued if you could provide some evidence for an improvement in Leicester's cash flow, please. As recently as last week, the club took out two further loans against future transfer redeemables to support its cash flow, which by its latest 21-22 figures were troublesome even prior to relegation. The club had the 7th highest wage bill in England upon relegation and has retained a significant number of those player's rights since, while losing 2/3 of its revenue. It is extremely likely that the club posts a significant loss for both the 22-23 and 23-24 financial years at minimum, and to my latest knowledge the club remains on UEFA's FFP 'watchlist'.
I'd admit we should review some players' wages which were not reduced in the database by 45% (but rather a slightly lesser 25-35% amount) post-relegation, at Leicester. We'll review those for a future data update, along with some other player wages among new signings which may have been set erroneously high.
As for clubs outside of those recently relegated (the likes of Luton Town, for example) - a large promotion clause would seem logical to me to prevent the need for a club to renew 25 first team contracts upon promotion to a league which offers exponentially higher revenues. A surprise promotion of a team offering £5-10kpw to their players in the Championship would surely warrant a promotion increase of near-doubling those wages, in my estimation.
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Are there any further examples of players you feel have unrealistic wages upon promotion, please?
We would anticipate that almost all Championship clubs have very large promotion wage increases, due to the significant increase in revenue upon reaching the Premier League. The figure of 82% arises from a 45% relegation wage decrease written in bulk to the contracts of first team players at the newly relegated sides - an increase of 82% reverses the decrease of 45% upon relegation last season to return a player to their previous PL wage.
I'm aware there are a few examples of players, especially at Leicester (where the wage bill is somewhat larger than that of Leeds or Southampton), who have wages that are perhaps slightly too high - especially those among new signings. If you have any other examples we can take a look - but we do not believe that the 82% increase, nor others in the Championship, need altering at this stage.
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18 hours ago, Smallen said:
Hi Tom. Not going to refute any of the other stuff but finishing of 12 + composure of 11 does seem underrated based on the evidence to me? Barnes scored 13 non-penalty goals from an xG of 8.9 last season. He was also in the 90th percentile amongst wingers/attacking in the division for goals per shot, implying that he took his chances very well:
In the 21/22 season he scored 11 from an xG of 7.9, in the 20/21 it was 13 from an xG of 7.4.
That's 3 consecutive seasons of massively outperforming the quality of chances provided to him.
I can't deny that he doesn't seem like a player who will be particularly involved in other parts of the game. I'd probably argue that his dribbling attribute of 16 and flair of 15 seems way too high based on what I've seen of him and the supporting data that suggests he doesn't dribble much, and when he does he gets tackled more than 90% of other wingers do (this is last season's premier league data vs other wingers/attacking mids):
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edit: The reason he hasn't played much is because he came to us relatively late in the window and hadn't had a pre-season prior to that. Howe also demands extremely high standards of fitness from the players. Even Bruno Guimaraes didn't come straight into the team when he joined despite us being in a relegation battle at the time. He then went on to get a serious injury in one of his first starts.
Once again, I would ask you to judge whether Barnes is scoring too few goals in your saves, as opposed to focusing on numbers out of 20 in isolation.
Dribbling as an attribute is not how often a player dribbles, but rather how good they are at keeping control of the ball at speed - which Barnes is quite adept at, in my opinion.
Regardless of the reasoning for Barnes not playing, I'm really not sure how either the Newcastle researcher or I could make any call on the player being at the level of other Newcastle players if he simply has not played football. It's one to review in the next data update, of course.
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Thanks, @perpetua. There is an option to buy and a mandatory purchase fee after 25 appearances written into the database, but I believe only one of these will show at any given time, unfortunately.
We'll have the wage updated for a future database update.
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1 hour ago, george_nufc said:
Harvey Barnes: We signed him for £38m primarily because he's a goalscoring winger. He scored 13 goals in the league last season and has scored 28 league goals in only 78 starts in the past 3 seasons, which is insane for a mid-table winger. Put him through on goal and his shooting is incredible, so I find it very strange how he only has 12 finishing & off-the-ball, and his composure has reduced to 11? A number of articles/videos have also been made showing that he doesn't really beat his man that often, but prefers to one-two around them instead, so I would definitely have this added in as a trait. He's also quite good at winning headers for a winger - Fbref have him in the 85th percentile for number of aerials won and 59th percentile for % aerials won, which suggests he should have above 10 jumping reach. I think he needs a bit of a rework.
As the Leicester researcher, I'll have set the majority of Barnes' attributes as they are at the moment, so happy to chip in here.
I'd recommend judging his attributes after you've played the game for a while - if you're seeing he's scored too few goals in your saves (or winning too few headers, etc.), please get back in touch and the Newcastle researcher can review those numbers. The attributes are designed to produce a fair and reasonable representation of the player's real life profile in the game's match engine - judging individual numbers against the 1-20 scale is not what the research is designed to achieve.
But more generally - this is a player who took an awful lot of chances last season, missed a fair amount, scored a few others, and more often than not, didn't really do a great deal else to support his team's cause. 'His shooting is incredible' is frankly not something I would support, really, having watched him since he played in central midfield in Leicester's academy at the age of 16. A 12 for Off The Ball is in my book quite accurate, given his attacking movement and positional play is the glaring weakness in his general game, and cost Leicester a great deal both going forwards (Off The Ball) and backwards (Positioning) in the last 18 months.
I'd also add this is a player who has scored 1 Premier League goal this season and has mostly sat on the bench behind Anthony Gordon, thus far. I think there'd be a much greater argument to rate him higher if he was actually playing regularly and/or particularly well!
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On 21/04/2023 at 22:52, Weston said:
I don't see where to do that, that's what I need help with. Can you explain specifically how to use the in-game editor to do this so that the change appears in my existing save?
I don't believe this is possible in the in-game editor - you will need to use the pre-game editor and start a new save for the change to take effect.
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9 hours ago, julkjulk said:
The first one was not added, any problem?
Adri Álvarez (83304588) is now at Arandina in the latest database - the ID you have provided does not exist.
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Thanks, @CFuller - we'll take a look and make those changes for a future update.
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Thanks, @Bigpapa42 - this should have been altered in the finances for Rosario Central when the transfer was confirmed, as the game does not alter the balances upon the date of transfer, in-game. Now that Buonanotte is a Brighton player (which will be reflected in the next update), this is no longer an issue, but Rosario Central's finances will need updating to reflect this. @keyzerFAQ
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All players and squads will be reviewed for future updates, as with all new database updates. Please be aware the star rating is not set in the database, and is a measure that will depend on the quality of your staff and the quality of other players at the club, and as a result can fluctuate or not reflect the player's true ability.
Cheers.
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Thanks, @FootballHedgehog, I've passed this onto the Head Researcher.
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Thanks again, @respublik
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Thanks, @respublik - we've spotted this one.
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Great work, @respublik - we'll review these for a future update.
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This is set as part of a nation's Transfer Preferences, to model the nations which scouts from Finland will typically have knowledge of. I'll pass this onto @Vesse to judge whether these may need altering. Thanks for raising!
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Thanks - we've got this one under review.
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Thanks - we've got this one under review.
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Thanks, @Bigpole
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Thanks - we'll have this rectified for a future update.
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Data Quality deteriorating year on year
in Other Data Issues
Posted
Thanks very much, VAraan1980. I can see that there are a small number of years in nations that are not showing. I'll investigate those ahead of a future update.