gam945

March 23, 2020

What is the difference between having -for example- a Positive mentality + defend duty and a Cautious mentality + attack duty if overall the player has the same mentality? What would be the reasoning between choosing one or the other?

Also, do the team fluidity still means something in the ME? From what I've read, it replaces the Team Shape and doesn't mean anything now apart from being an indication on how duties are allocated.

Thanks in advance!

March 23, 2020

9 minutes ago, Experienced Defender said:

hat's why I set the right back to a more conservative role (FB on support). IWB on defend could also be a good option, but I feared you don't have a suitable player for an IWB role (because it's more demanding than regular FB or WB). Keep in mind that I don't know your players, so I had to base the tactic on assumptions, rather than actual information.

The reason I opted specifically for the BBM - as well as for giving the DLP support duty instead of defend - was to help achieve the more "fluid" style of attacking you mentioned as your goal. But the overall balance is still pretty good.

A problem with your initial tactic was that you had both CMs in holding roles but also both fullbacks in a fairly conservative role, so there was not enough support from deep to your attacks and the more attack-minded players. Which directly ran counter to your intended style of play.

Yes you're right about the 2 holding CMs + FBs on support, I saw this issue in my matches.. Got it, thanks!

15 minutes ago, Experienced Defender said:

I don't remember what was their style of play and how they played back then (I am too obsessed with English football though). Maybe it was a tiki-taka. I just said that your tactic is definitely not a tiki-taka (not theirs).

Oh okay, I've must misread you, I thought you were talking about the targeted system.

March 22, 2020

15 minutes ago, Experienced Defender said:

o keeping in mind that you want to be solid in defense and efficiently use possession when you have it, (counter)attacking in a fluid fashion (instead of just hoofing the ball aimlessly) - but at the same time your 3rd division team is not really capable of executing such a style of football in a really effective way - I can only tell you what my basic tactic would (approximately) look like if I were to attempt that kind of playing style:

DLFsu* AF

IWsu DLPsu BBM WMsu

WBsu CDde CDde FBsu

GK/SK??

That's really interesting and I'm gonna give it a go, but I always thought having a BBM or runner type of CM in a two man midfield wasn't effective because it would leave it with gaps. Would you use this tactic even against a 3 man midfield?

22 minutes ago, Experienced Defender said:

And btw - with reference to the thread title - it has virtually nothing in common with any tiki-taka (vertical or otherwise).

Looking at the in-game description, seemed to me that is was an Ajax 2019/Bayern 2013 type of play..

March 22, 2020

I am currently in the preseason of my first season with my D3 team in Italy, and I want to build the club around a tactical culture that values vertical passing, efficient possession, fluid counter-attacking and solid defending. By efficient possession, I don't mean that I want 60% possession; I would be satisfied by 45% and +. I just mean that players should not just try long balls or clear it as a safe option. They should be confident with the ball, playing short simple passes with a clear intent to move it forward and not just keeping the ball for the sake of it.

I absolutely want to play in a 4-4-2/4-4-1-1 formation or their variations with DMs, so it's not an option to play with another formation. The main reason for that is that I want to defend in 4-4-2 and that the formation set up in FM is the defensive one. However, I don't like the offensive animation of a traditional 4-4-2 as I consider it too simple, and unable to produce champagne football. Here is the animation I'm trying to reproduce:

So basically defending in 4-4-2 and attacking in a (pep's city inspired?) 2-3-2-3. Here is how I need each player to behave:
CBs - (CD-de): They are the ones who usually do the first pass of the attack, But that's it. They only reason to exist in the attacking phase is to give the ball to the #6. They have to excel in defending and have reasonable passing and first touch qualities. I do not expect them to play a role in the build up. As I value vertical passing, the ball shouldn't get to them after that is has passed the second line in attacking phase. I'd love a CB with long passing skills, but that is absolutely not necessary. Examples: Thuram, Nesta

FBs - (IWB-su): they have a demanding role as they have to provide a screen to the defense in the wide areas, and help in the build up to get the ball to the 2 top lines. They may have to cross from deep in some situations, but it isn't their primary task. Ex: Lahm (Pep's bayern)

CM #6 - (A-de or HB-de): He is the one who gets the ball from the back and organizes the play. He is a primary key to the build up phase, and has to excel in positionning, passing skills and organizing play. He is also considered as a third defender. The central circle should be his and only his. Ex: Fernandinho, Fabinho, Koeman (minus his attacking role)

CM #8 - (DLP-su or SV-su): Much more an attacking/supporting player than is comrade #6 in the midfield, he organizes the attacking play deeper than #10 and participates to the build up. He isn't so much of a runner, but could (preferably) rarely provide options in attacking phase. He has to be technically gifted and proficient in defending. Ex: David Silva, De Jong (the first is more attacking than the second who is more defensive, but they have the required qualities)

WMs - (IW-su/at): They are explosive and technically skilled players who can make differences in one-on-one situations. They should be proficient in crossing and finishing and they track back. Ideally, one has a tendency to assist more and the other has a tendency to score more, while being able two do the two tasks. Ex: Ribéry - Robben (Heynckes' Bayern)

ST #10 - (SS-at or DLF-su or CF-su): He is positionned as a striker/AMC but he's nothing like a regular striker. He comes very deep to organize the attacking play with his comrade #8 but has a more runner profile. His primary task is the build up of the attacking phase in the final third, buy may come to assist #8 and maybe #6 and get the ball up the pitch. However, he is also an attacking threat and can place himself up with #9. Ex: Bergkamp, Van de Beek

ST #9 - (CF-at or P-at): Regular number 9, has to be complete, but I don't expect him the participate in the build up or holding the ball to assist his teammates. His first and only task is to score. He is a complete striker but has only scoring in his mind. Ex: Van Basten

Now, I have to consider that I'm in third division, with third division players. So I can't try to play such a system which requires very intelligent and skilled players. So my objective is to play a system that pave the way for the targeted one, while getting players who satisfies the targeted way. Again, I have to be pragmatic, I won't likely find such players in D3 or D2. So I'll make use of loans to get players who satisfies short-term needs and use transfers to get players who I'm confident I can develop into one that fits in the target system.

So I decided of a system that could pave the way for the targeted one, and relies on two principles: fluid counter-attack and solid defending. Vertical passing and efficient possession is something I'll try to develop going forward. So here's my tactic:

PIs: IWs (Stay wider, Cross More often)

The thing is that I'm expected to be 2nd as my team comes from D2 (Serie B). The first line is set up as a classic 4-4-2, but their main task is to defend. FBs provide some crosses, but I expect solid defending.

The midfield consists of a DLP-de and a BWM-de; the first one being my #6 that defends and organizes the build up, while the second is a simpler version of the #8. He should play simple passes for his teammates and try to get the ball back, while maintaining his 2 man midfield with the DLP. They have Defend duties in a Positive mentality set up, which balances it for me.
The WMs are IWs that have Stay Wider and Cross More Often as PIs to reproduce the behavior of regular Wingers. They should be a threat in the half spaces and providing crosses from wide.

The striker pairing is set up as a DLF-su with a Poacher, so one should come deep and help organizing the attacking phase, while the second has only scoring in his mind.

TIs:

Shorter Passing: To build up play as in a possession tactic
Work Ball In the Box: To balance the number of crosses, as I have IWs on Cross More Often and FBs. This should make use of the DLF in the middle of the pitch.
Fairly Narrow: Again, to have balanced width and to use the half spaces.

Counter: part of the philosophy

Defend Narrower & Lower LOE: Compactness

Positive Mentality: We are expected to win our matches

I've played some matches and the playing style wasn't what I was expecting. I had no presence in the middle from my DLF, my Poacher isn't lurking for goals, and I don't know what to think about my two man midfield...Here are some team analysis of my previous match I won 4-1, but the playing style wasn't what I wanted and goals weren't from a build up play...

A heat map of my CMS..

However satisfied by the IWs:

But absolutely not by the strikers:

Any suggestions on how I can ameliorate the present system, keeping in mind of what I target?

March 18, 2020

5 hours ago, IbrahimAliMaher said:

150k is actually ok at that level IMO. I'm managing a league one side in England which is the equivalent, and for a 16 year old with no first team experience don't forget that 'potential' still has be realised...depends on how his personality is and your training facilities/coaches I guess. Having said that a fixed % sell on would have been preferable, I've been done by the odd min fee release clause in this way.

Also your budget is 2m?! I'm lucky if I get 200k lol!

It meant 2M balance, so in the bank :lol: My transfer budget is 400K euros, but it's a club that was last season in Serie B (D2) so it explains it.

And btw thanks for the implicit advice! I'm just gonna try to sell him at 150-300K with a %sell clause, that would be better than having him get poached... Let's hope the guy confirms his potential!

March 18, 2020

41 minutes ago, IbrahimAliMaher said:

Would you not get compensation for him at least if he signs for another Italian club as he's only 16? I know I signed a few 19, 20 years olds who were released by Man City, Man Utd etc. and ended up paying them sell on fees when they were sold despite signing them on expiry of their contracts with the bigger club?

Not ideal I appreciate but at least you might get something this way?

150K compensation...on a budget of 2M. Not good, not bad lol

2 hours ago, AurioDK said:

I took Gateshead to the premier league and I am now in the year of 2041. On the way to glory I lost quite a few good players that way and found that long contracts if possible were the best option, obviously too late for you now. Unfortunately I had to sell some due to unhappiness in regard to interest and me rejecting bids, it takes a while to make them happy again so not always worth it if the bid is really good. Luckily the lower leagues are filled with cheap alternatives and often good ones too. One of the most important rule of lower league management, don´t get too attached to your players, they are merchandise and your stepping stone towards greater things.

It´s too late for you I am afraid unless a miracle happens, cheer up though, there are cookies at the end of the rainbow ...

Guess I'll have to get used to it...

Thanks for the replies guys

March 17, 2020

We're at the start of the season, literally the first day of my save (with summer transfer on :seagull: ) and I have less than 20 days to do anything before another team poaches him. Only thing I can do is arrange a friendly and start him... Guess I just consider him gone?

March 17, 2020

1 minute ago, Experienced Defender said:

HB does drop between CBs, but only in the initial phase of attack. He does not stay there when the attack reaches later stages (sometimes, depending on how the attack progresses as well as your overall tactic, he can even end up pretty high up the pitch (near the opposition penalty area).

Thanks mate!

March 17, 2020

2 minutes ago, Experienced Defender said:

Really depends on your system, mate

I suggest you start a separate thread and post a screenshot of your tactic there if you want some more meaningful and specific advice.

This answer make me hopeful for the system I want to put in place lol, thanks. I'm gonna experiment in pre-season and gonna come back here and start a thread if I can't figure it out by myself, thanks!

btw, for the HB question, it also depends on the system? Wasn't sure if it's hard-coded that the HB goes between the CBs..

March 17, 2020

Quick questions here guys, thanks for your time in advance

1. Can we get a 4-4-2 DM to defend with 2 lines of 4, as a normal 4-4-2 would be? If yes, even if the 1 or 2 DMs have a Defend duty?

2. Would a Half Back in the wide DM position would still take the space between the CBs or he would take the space behind him? meaning the CB behind him would go more to the center and the HB goes between the CB and the FB, as De Jong did with Ajax?

Answers like "depends on your system" or just "yes/no" are fine for me, I want to experiment myself but not waste my time to try something the game won't allow. Thanks again!

March 17, 2020

Hi guys, hope you're all doing well..

I'm currently at the start of a save with a 3rd division team in Italy, and I have a 16 yrs old youth player that seems to have a great potential and nice stats for Serie C. The guy could even be a sub in my first team, and I intend to give him playing time so he develops well as we make our route to Serie A in the next 4 years (hopefully!). That way at 20, he would have played 4 seasons with the first team, ready for a Serie A debut.

Only problem is when I start the game, there are already Serie A teams showing interest in him, and he won't extend the contract..what are my options? Do I will get a chance to convince him to stay? Or it is a waste of time?

Thanks in advance!

October 27, 2019

Sorry guys, hadn't the chance to reply earlier. Thanks for all your answers, it was of great use!

My strategy is to give me 2-3 seasons to become a team that is sure to stay up, and I have already many great 17-21 years old player. Will use the loans to almost build a first team from scratch, and make transfers of young players that I will develop during those 2-3 seasons so they be my first team players after this lapse of time.

However, this will be at expense of team cohesion during the first stages of the season...but it will also maintain my finances, guess that's a good trade-off

October 25, 2019

Thanks! Okay, I understand your point. Also, after having read some articles about the subject, I think setting a salary scale would be the most important thing.

Also another question, does the star ratings change a lot when going up because of the new league reputation? For the players that I still need to develop, I base myself on the coaches report, so if they have a 4.5 star potential rating in Serie B but a 3 star potential rating in Serie A it would be a problem for my squad planning...

October 25, 2019

Hi guys, just secured promotion from Serie B to Serie A this season, after a fantastic and unexpected (was predicted 17th) season However, now that the season ended, I'm a little confused about what to do next.

Especially about finances...I managed very well my wage budget, but in Serie B I had a limit (couldn't pay more than 5.75K per week). Now that I'm in Serie A I can offer any wage I want. Hopefully, all the players I want to keep had been already signed on long/medium term contracts within the Serie B wage limits, but should I give them contract renewals?

Also more generally, what you guys do when the season ends? scouting for next season? some friendlies?

Thanks in advance.

August 25, 2019

1 hour ago, Miligramm said:

As Always,PES has and never had problems with the licences.I wonder why? Damn ,I allready posted a comment about this problem ! Why is it so hard for FM to get all the licences like it PES always did?

There's a catch and Miles won't to talk public about it! A New FM without currently one of the Best Clubs in the World...?!? Embarrassment.....

what's the problem, even if in FM there isn't the official name and kits? FM19 is my first FM and it took me 10 minutes to install all kit,faces and logos packs. This isn't an issue, only important thing is that there is the real players, which even FIFA have. Moreover, all is free. So it isn't like if they release a "uncomplete" game and ask to pay more for licensing.

August 24, 2019

I don't understand this Stadia thing.

Just please reassure me, FM 2020 will also have a PC version like the 2019?

August 24, 2019

Isn't the OP talking about national teams?

August 5, 2019

On 01/08/2019 at 16:11, Footix said:

What's up with blocked crosses anyway? My WB (A) and FB (S) both keep whacking crosses directly into the nearest defender, instead of getting it in. Like 8 crosses out of 10 are blocked (I know, I've watched three games in full now). I've tried telling them to cross from deep, dribble less, anything to make them just CROSS IT instead of holding on to the ball but nah.

Please tell me it's not just me?

I'm also a newbie, and had the same problem. Was thinking this part of the game was broken until I began to analyse those crosses. And I've come to the conclusion that at least 60% of the time, blocked crosses come from wingers/full back who are too much forward to go back (or counter TI, high tempo TI,etc making them less likely to play to the back when they're in the final third) and have no teammates that can receive pass a pass because they are marked or not in position. With growing tactical familiarity and some adjustments to tactics, blocked crosses went to lower, normal numbers (which aren't low in real life).

EDIT: first read something like this here, then verified it myself

August 1, 2019

11 hours ago, Pilcs said:

I don't suppose you know when that was said in the video? I must have missed that.

my bad, it was another video

tactical analysis against barcelona:

notice the mix of zonal and man-marking, it's mainly in the beginning

July 29, 2019

18 minutes ago, Pilcs said:

I'll be honest, the Champions League instructions were mainly based from the two Barcelona games I remember watching back then. I'd almost have to agree with you in a way with the fact they never played "deep" as such however I seem to remember it was more they sat "deeper" and then pressed after certain triggers. Also I think in terms of replicating this in FM in order to be able to counter-attack effectively opposition teams will need to push forward, so the deeper line encourages that therefore leaving space in behind. Appreciate the comments though, maybe i'll experiment with leaving the defensive line and line of engagement as standard in the future.

Also, and I think the Tifo video you posted says it, Bayern 2012/13 had a similar man-marking approach to last year semi-finalists Ajax. They had the "3-1" of the 4-2-3-1 and at least one of the 2 DMs tightly man-marking, and the defense + 1 DM marking zonally (85% percent sure).

July 29, 2019

2 hours ago, Pilcs said:

Lower Defensive Line, Lower Line of Engagement have been used to keep the team deep, compact and hard to break down.

Bayern never played deep in Champions league matches imo

Seen almost every match of the 2012/2013 and never recall a match where they played deep

Against Juventus and Arsenal they were ±high, gainst Barcelona they were neither high neither deep

Bayern in this period had a short-passing fast tempo play, not like Barcelona 2011, but much more direct, IMO.

For the tactics itself, can't help, I'm still in the learning process lol

July 24, 2019

Hi guys, wanted a quick advice about youth abilities assessment. I'm trying to develop an idendity for my team, and I want all my players from U18 to Senior to have good rating on certain attributes. However, I have trouble judging them...what is the rating treshold that I should use?

Spoiler: some rating attributes of U18 Serie B side

Spoiler

For my first team, I think 12+ in 10/12 attributes would be acceptable or even maybe 11+ for Rotation players. But now I'm in november, 2 months still for the transfer window, and I'm trying to see which U20/U18 players will be part of my project, so I know which players I don't have to renew contract, which I have to sign pro, which positions I have to sign players for, etc.

I've read some youth development threads inhere but it's still really messy in my head, and I have no clue about how to approach the youth development. If there is some guides (other than Caixa thread), I'll be happy to be redirected to the guides. And sorry if that's the wrong place, seen the Caixa thread in here so figured youth development could be part of Tactics&Training.

Thanks in advance guys

July 12, 2019

8 hours ago, Experienced Defender said:

SS paired with a TQ can be a nice combination in a counter-attacking 4411 (provided both players have the right attributes and traits for the roles), but then you need to set up other roles and instructions in a proper way, rather than looking only at these two guys in isolation.

Nice to hear that lol, I finally thought about a good combination by myself. However curious about your opinion on the other roles. Which roles do you think I have to replace and to keep? My idea behind the tactic was a direct passing (not long balls, more like how germany played in 2010) in possession, solid defense and counter-attack when not in possession. So my back 4 is a classic one, the 2 CMs have to defend/link defense and wingers/attack without committing themselves too much i attack, and for the wingers, one attack the center and the other the flank, depending of the positions of the asymmetrical front 2. For the front 2, i thought the SS would come deep and get the ball from midfield, then find either the wingers or the TQ in space and finally goes into the opposition box. The wingers would either have to cross/pass to the SS in the box or the TQ in space and in the box also, or the TQ and the SS would have to combine to score.

July 12, 2019

Okay i see thanks, the explanation about the vertical compactness -even if i wanted it- and the SS's tight space is pretty logical and plausible...I'll observe my DLP and my front two behavior in the match and see if that's what is going on

July 12, 2019

2 minutes ago, Snorks said:

Yeah, I guess what's happening is that your midfielders are seeing the Treq in space and simply passing to him. Do you have a Playmaker in MC?

yes, a DLP-de and the other CM-su with PI: hold position

didn't put too much TIs for attacking as i want to focus on defense and letting the players figure out how to counter or to attack

any issues you see about the tactic? just curious about your advice

Sign In

Forums

Articles

FAQs

Online Manual

Support: Blocks

Support: Games

Bug Tracker

SIGames Manual (beta)

Profiles

Posts posted by gam945