CKBrahMa
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Posts posted by CKBrahMa
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Il y a 1 heure, The3points a dit :
Many different beliefs on what tempo actually does, but here's the in game description: "This will ask the team to go about their business in more urgent fashion than their team mentality allows, moving the ball quickly and decisively, using the intensity of their approach to unsettle the opposition." I interpret that as the pace of the ball movement, not the pace of movement up the pitch. Either way, even if I ask the team to move the ball up the pitch quickly, they will do so with many short passes in quick sucession, and since much shorter passing "Places an emphasis on instructing players to prioritise keeping the ball", they won't move up the pitch with risky decision making. Either way they end up moving the ball quickly side to side
It ends up with you asking all your players to quickly move the ball (high-up the pitch but you disagree without any proof) with much shorter passing. In other word, you’re asking your team to disrupt the ennemy team with very short passes. Do you see the problem here ?
Il y a 1 heure, The3points a dit :However, with both shorter passing and lower tempo, you end up with 2 instructions focused on slow, keep-ball possession play, but with much short passing and higher tempo you have one focused on keep-ball and another focused on quick ball movement. To me this combination makes natural sense: the 2 instructions meet at a happy medium where my team has very high possession but instead of labouring, they move the ball quickly to exploit gaps.
So, to have a medium thing (which means, no TI), you put 2 TI. How is that not overcomplicating things ?
Il y a 1 heure, The3points a dit :See I don't exactly agree with this thinking because the 2 instructions feed off each other, you can't take them apart and criticise them separately : one tells the players to be far apart and stretch the pitch. This instruction is sometimes at the detriment of central play so I used that instruction to control the ball centrally. Same vice versa. Focus Play moves players inside, to the detriment of the width of the wingers, so Wide width provides that. Similar contrast idea to above which makes a happy medium, something where the players ultimately can decide
This answer proves that you don’t think about your team shape when thinking about your TI.
Why would I ask my team to be wider if there already is 5 of my players stretching the opposition ?Why would I ask my player to play through the center when most of my team is in the center ? If they want to pass the ball, they have to play it to the center or to go back for another build-up.
What you are doing with this many instruction is forcing your players to a certain way of play.
With my system, if they don’t find space in the middle, my TI’s are ok for them to play another way.
With your system, if they can’t find middle space, you’re asking them to prioritise a risky way in the middle rather than a safe recycle option.
Il y a 1 heure, The3points a dit :In addition, I don't really see how one can achieve the width of the wingers in game with the narrowest width possible
It is not the narrowest. It is narrow only. (If I’m not wrong, there is a way to have « Narrower » or « More Narrow »).
Furthermore, you’re forgetting that most of my roles are creating space. It has way more impact to move from 30cm in a 100cm space rather than in a 10km space.
Il y a 1 heure, The3points a dit :The W-A's stay wider and hardcoding will make them stay wide but the confines of the system means that the width is not as wide as possible
The goal to have someone wide is to offer them more space. Having the whole team wider reduces the space the wingers have.
Furthermore, you can have a PPM’s trained if it is not enough for your taste.
Il y a 1 heure, The3points a dit :And in my head, keeping the IF in the far left zone is a sunken cause
In your head + my IF is my best player so far.
il y a une heure, The3points a dit :Here's the result with fairly narrow and Stay Wider on 2 IWs, who don't stay wide unless the ball's on their side. Instead they just follow the FB. To be a true Arteta (and JDP) side I feel one winger has to be an outlet on the other flank wide.
I don’t get the purpose here. Is that suppose to be your replication ? If so, you do see that none of the build up comes from the middle ?
That Gakpo is not at a place you should find Saka IRL ?TL ; DR : I’m not saying that you are wrong. In a way, we are saying the same thing, we just translate it differently.
It really feels like to say one information, you’re using 3 different sentences when only one simple sentences is enough. It is all I’m saying
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Le 13/03/2023 à 23:16, The3points a dit :
I do have a slight disagreement with TIs here though, TIs instruct the whole team to do something but are ultimately nullified and sometimes trumped by PIs and PPMs as you mention.
This is were I think you’re misunderstanding. Nothing can nullify an instruction. The best it can do is mitigate it. Of course, sometimes it mitigates it to a point that it will almost always nullify it.
But that is something you have to work with and use. The « almost always ». This is what brings a lot more of fluidity, less predictability.
In add, if your TI’s state that your team plays much shorter passing, of course a player with « more direct »/« take more risk » PI’s is going to have more direct passes. But, he will be less likely to do it rather than a player with a standard TI.
Le 13/03/2023 à 23:16, The3points a dit :I also think that Arteta wants his side to pass the ball frequently back and forth quickly which comes with a high tempo (tempo I don't think measures speed up the pitch, rather speed between passes and other actions). While High Tempo does sometimes result in direct play, Much Shorter is a nullifying effect and while each on its own you could argue don't make up an Arteta side, together they do.
We have to take a look at how the game defines tempo.
I don’t have the game with me, but here is what I find on this website :
« You would ideally use this tempo if, for instance, you want your team to be more cautious out of possession in their defensive shape, but still retain the freedom to make quick and intricate passing that would get them quickly up the field and into the opposition’s final third. »
While, for Slightly lower tempo :
« While much lower tempo and slightly lower tempo focus on greater control of the game, slightly lower tempo gives the team some freedom when it comes to initiating decisive attacks and making quick passes to players who are in the attacking areas of the pitch.
This makes it possible to use the instruction as the basis for a tiki-taka style of play that still carries a threat in attack, rather than having control of the game for the sake of it. »
Arteta wants to control the game. Even though he doesn’t want the ball for the sake of it, he wants to be the one asking question to the opponent.
I do think you’re confusing « high tempo » and « dribble less » (which results on your player to do a lot more of passes, most of the time with short simple passes).
Le 13/03/2023 à 23:16, The3points a dit :Similar to Focus play through Middle and Wide width. Arteta's Arsenal I believe lead the league (or led the league last season) in terms of central play with something like 25-28%. Focus Play through Middle helps nullify the extreme distances between players on Wide width (again, 2 instructions that are more than the sum of their parts). While players the wide players are wide and demanding the ball, simultaneously a lot of central players are central and the two instructions complement each other. I tried neutral width on positive mentality with the other instructions before but the central play was dead, and even with the DLP-D being a playmaker, he lacked any possession at all.
Once again, I have to disagree.
Or, to be more precise, I think you’re overkilling it.
With a 433 (with an IWB), you have 5 players in the middle + HS, against 3 outwide (the IF-a or the BBM depending on the build-up ; the FB and the W-a). Not counting the CDs.
Asking them to focus on the middle is asking to create an overload where you already have an overload + to play in this area. So, you end up to either face a wall in the middle or to play out to flanks.
I think the problem you have is that you make it too complicated. Why using two different TI’s when only one is doing what you want with the bonus of adding fluidity ?
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il y a 27 minutes, fadesany a dit :
Do you us opposition instruction for each team or get your assistant to do it. Good work btw
For the moment, no.
I might work on it later.
However, as we’re a possession-based tactic, we defend with the ball most of the time
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Il y a 3 heures, Mutumba a dit :
Do you use PI? Ive only found that you use "run wide" with the BBM. Is that correct?
I also use
- for the IF-a : Roam from position (so he can drop to the space left by the IWB-s) ;
- for the BPD : Dribble more
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il y a 3 minutes, julle17 a dit :
To add to the replication one thing that happens now that Trossard plays instead of Nketiah, and also stood out in the first part of the season with Jesus, was how fluid Martinellis role was, and how he often swapped with Jesus and now Trossard, which he didn't with Nketiah.
Could perhaps add the swap position instruction between the striker and left wingerYou are reading my mind ! I was thinking of this yesterday looking at the game.
However, they already do it (as the IF-A will go central; and the DLF does roam).
Maybe is it overkill ?
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Il y a 1 heure, The3points a dit :
I think CF is the best representation of Jesus, obviously he hasn't played for a while, but Trossard could fit the mould as well. For me Odegaard's role depends on the game. Some games he makes every single chance and controls the play etc, and in others he is more like a MEZ as you say. Aesthetically I prefer the AP-A as that just makes a more pleasant watch. In terms of Partey, I think he's a metronomic like figure that DLP-D gives, obviously certain traits like "Dictate Tempo" are key for that as well but the role works well universally in my opinion, vs DM-S which depends on player interpretation.
I think the « which depends on player interpretation » is the main point here.
By the following answers, my main focus is to emulate the fluidity of IRL football.
TL;DR : putting a natural X role player in a X role will make him play X role only. Putting the same player in a Y role is going to create fluidity as he will do Y (due to his role) and X (due to his ability and PPM’s).For the ST
Depending on the player, the role is not going to be played the same. Putting a player with high workrate as a Trequartista will lead to have a Trequartista who is going to defend, while the role states the opposite.
You have to look at player attributes and PPM’s to understand how they will perform in this role.
For the complete forward, I get what you’re saying : G. Jesus or Trossard do all kind of things. Sometimes, G. Jesus acted like a TF-a, sometimes like a F9, or even an AF. However, I never saw Trossard acting like an TF, or even an pure AF.
The role selection helps you to create a tendency. In this role, the player will most likely do X and Y. That’s it. However, to perform the X and Y, this player - due to his attributes and PPM’s - will do it this way.
I picked DLF-s because I wanted my ST to i. Drop deep ii. Be the creative anchor of the attack.
It better suits the DLF or even the TF. My problem with the CF is that it does everything. It will drop deep, it will be a creative anchor. It will also run into space, be more selfish and so on. It will depends on the player’s ability and preferences.
Taking DLF-s helps to focus on the two goals I have for my STC. It doesn’t mean he won’t run behind the defense. It doesn’t mean he will not be selfish.
It only means he’s going to do it less.
For the MC-R
We can have the exact same discussion about Ødegaard : due to his attributes and PPM’s, he is a natural playmaker.
Why putting him only as a playmaker when he can be both a Mezz and an AP ?
Il y a 1 heure, The3points a dit :In terms of TIs I think the Much Shorter Passing and Higher Tempo mesh really well for this type of thing because you lose a lot of the risk of high tempo while moving the ball quickly and controlling the play. For width, I agree with you for the most part: but Wide width makes the back 3 move evident and useful on the ball. The Focus Play instruction make the team prefer to move centrally without compromising the width of the wingers as narrow sometimes does (earlier in the thread I experimented with Narrow and Stay Wider PIs)
TI’s are dangerous.
Putting a TI means you instruct all your players to act this way.
Does Arteta want all of his player to play much shorter passes ? No
Does he want all of his player to quickly moves the ball up the pitch ? No
Does he want all of his player looking to play in the middle ? No.
About the « Stay wider » PI, if I’m correct you put it on IW-a. So, it will only ask them to start wider, but the role instruct them to cut inside in a U-shape. So it will congest the middle more.
However, a W-a on his wrong foot will start wide, and either go wide (stretching opposition) or cut inside. So, in one role, you’ll have an IW and a W
(Sorry if it feels harsh, it doesn’t : all good spirit here)
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Il y a 14 heures, julle17 a dit :
Best replication of Arsenal i've seen on here so far, not really anything in terms of roles i disagree with, and i think your reasoning is sound.
Wow, thanks ! That’s one hell of a compliment !
I’m going to share some results. I played few games after the West Ham one (who beats 6-1 Man City after). We win every game !
Il y a 14 heures, julle17 a dit :One question though, and it might not be anything you've tried, but i'm still going to ask.
Have you ever tried replicating the specific way Artetas press is, where on of the wingers tuck in to press a cb, and then the full back would come support that press going on the full back left by the winger?I have to work on that !
I think Tifo made and Ok’ish work to explain Arteta’s press system (the one you describe), but I can’t find it.
Now, concerning the recreation of this press system, I have to say that I’m not the best for this.
And, I don’t know (legit don’t know) if FM’s can allow us to recreate it.
I know that we can trigger press when some players gets the ball. However, I don’t know how can we ask a FB to mark the opp. winger only when our winger goes to press…
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Some of the goal we scored :
1-0
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3-0
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4-0
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First game with this tactic : 4-0 against West Ham
I would like the IWB to be more narrow, the DM more deeper and the 2 CM's to be higher, but it's a great start !
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The TEAM INSTRUCTIONS
Let's take a look at the TI's for the vertical Tiki-Taka TI's :
Due to the change of roles, some TI's should change.
TBF, none of the out of possession and In transition should change.
Some can argue about the Counter TI.
I think it is wrong to say that Arsenal is not looking to counter attack. They have great passing skills and very pacy wingers : if there is space, they want to exploit it !
Furthermore, when Arsenal get the ball, all the players are looking forwards. They don't do nonsense passing. They want the ball up the pitch because, even if they loose it, it's not in their hald and they can counter press in the opponent half.
However, maybe we should let it unticked. We'll see
The only TI's I will change are the ones in the "In possession" section :
What I don't change :
- the width : when talking about Pep Guardiola, a lot of the players think that when he says that he wants his winger to be wide, it means that the team should be wide. Stating this is a non-sense ; the idea to have your wingers wider than the rest of the team helps to stretch the defense. And, remember one of Arteta's principle : we want to ask the opposition question, not answer theirs. Meaning, we want them to deal with a problem. If you have winger in a wide system, both problems (width and winger) have the same answer : defend wider. However, by having a narrow system and wide players, you force the opposition to give up space either on the flank or in the middle. Also, being narrow helps us for the counter press ;
- Passing shortness : most of the time, Arsenal isn't playing risky passes. The players who tries it are Odegaard (who has the "Tries killer ball" PPM) and Zinchenko (who has the "Long pass" PPM). In add, most of the role upfront as the PI "Take more risk" PI's ;
- Tempo : as we said, we want to control the game, dictate the tempo as Arteta said. Having a higher tempo can lead to give up the ball more often (failing the possession-based tactic), which leads to let the other team to dictate the tempo bu having the ball (failing one of Arteta's principle)
The one's I may tweak considering the game :
- WBIB : it can slow the game too much, especially against teams that park the bus ;
- Be more expressive : it goes with the Arteta principle. However, having this as a TI's means it applies to all the players. As most of them are instructed to be expressive by their role/duty/PI's, I may untick it ;
The one's I change :
- The underlaps : it slows the game, by waiting the player to underlap. In add, we already have the IF-a, the DLF-s and the Mezz-s that move into the channels. Having to wait that they underlap means that we give more time for the opposition to press our wide player ;
- focus on the middle : with an IWB and an IF-a, a DLF-s, we already have plenty of people in the middle. No need to overkill it ;
- Crosses : we add "low crosses". I let you see this video that explain how Arsenal heavily relies on cut-backs/low crosses.
For the mentality, I may switch to "Positive", but it is more a tweak then a true change.
Our TI's :
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Hello everyone !
After months and my failed attempt to make Saka a Ballon d'Or winner, WE ARE BACK WITH NEW IDEAS to RECREATE ARSENAL 22/23 !
The differences with the first attempt are, basically, my understanding of the system. Some new stuffs poped up :
- The new meta of Football : the box midfield ;
- The use of IRL heat maps for : Martin Odegaard ; Bukayo Saka ; Gabriel Martinelli ; Granit Xhaka ; Thomas Partey ; Gabriel Jesus ; Ole Zinchenko ; Ben White ;
- Looking on how Arsenal create their goalscoring chances : the use of cutbacks ;
- An in-depth video on how Arsenal play with the ball : Warning it's a french baguette video ;
- Rashidi "old" videos that i suggest : Passing triangle ; Football Intelligence on FM
So, let's start with what stay the same : the SHAPE
Indeed, we're still going with a 4-3-3.
Some can argue that Arsenal defend in a 442, a 4411 or even in a 451 shape.
However, stating this is, IMO, forgeting something essential about Arsenal (and IRL football) : IRL football teams are way more fluid that what FM allows us to be. Or, to be even more precise, if you want to emulate at best what Arsenal create IRL, you should :
- have different shape ready : a 433, a 442 and an agressive 4231. Why that's ? Because Arteta doesn't ask the same thing during the game to his team. Indeed, he ask them to be very agressive at the beginning of each 45 minutes. So, you "should" ask them to start with a 4231 for the first 15 minutes of each half-time, then go with a 433 to control the game and a 442 to kill it ;
- be ready to adapt for each game you face in FM. Even though we can translate some guideline of Arteta's principles, he still reacts and adapts depending on the opponent. It is why that, sometimes, the build-up phase starts with a 3 at the back, and sometimes only two, why sometimes you see Ben White overlapping and sometimes staying a bit deeper ;
- finally, it is WRONG to say that FM is static. Depending on your players, your pressing intensity, your width and the opponent shape, even if you have a 433, they can still defend in a 442'ish shape.
The principles
In a press conference while he was an Assistant of our Lord Pep Guardiola, Arteta stated that he wanted his team to :
- produce an expressive and engaging football ;
- not be entirely focus on the opponent ;
- dictate the tempo and create chances ;
- entertain our fans.
In FM terms, we can translate these like this :
- not going route-one or a counter-attacking playstyle : he wants a possession-based tactic ;
- we should ask the question to our opponents, and not answer theirs : he wants a possession-based tactic that can be used over and over (which is nice for FM) ;
- we decide if the game is played slow or quickly at the condition that we're still the ones producing the most and better chances : he wants an agressive possession-based tactic, that can be used over and over (meaning, we don't want possession for the sake of it) ;
- we want emotions, we have to take risks to score goals : he wants an agressive possession-based tactic in order to win whatever it takes, that can be used over and over (meaning, we play to win, a draw must feel like a defeat).
In other word, it really looks like the vertical tiki-taka preset of FM. And it is going to be our starting point, even though we're going to tweak it.
The roles and duties
We're going to focus on some roles and duty :
The Zinchenko role : IWB-s
As you can see, he starts wide but can play very centrally (way more than Ben White, who stays wider without overlap that much).
Zinchenko is a huge creator, that can also contribute during the attacking phase to be a passing outlet and recycle possession.
Furthermore, he's one of the player in the 'midfield box", along side...
The Partey role : DM-s
Not much to say : he is the fixing point to build from defence to midfield. He's the 2nd player of the bottom of the midfield box.
The Ødegaard role : Mezz-s
IMO, it is the hardest role to figure out. His heatmap suggests that he's eaither a Mezz-s, a CM-a or an AP-a. Why do I choose the Mezz-s :
- Even if he can be central, his heatmap suggest that he stays a bit more in the right half-space. So, if he was a CM-a, I should add the PI "Run on the flanks with ball" ;
- Being an AP-a means he becomes a ball magnet, which is 1. not true and 2.not what we want in FM (we're not looking for an overload on this side). Furthermore, it means that he may drops deeper to get the ball which is, according to his heatmap, not true ;
The Xhaka Role : BBM-s with PIs
He is a problem : he's the last member of midfield box but have to be up & down the pitch and wider when Martinelli comes in.
That's why we aim for a BBM-s, with "Run wide with the ball" PI's.
If we take a look at the vertical Tiki-Taka preset, we're not that far from what Arsenal is producing :
Regarding our analysis, this is our version :
Which, in possession should look like this :
You can see that we occupy the 5 channels, like the positionnal play of Arsenal suggests to.
Some may say that we lack of penetration on the box (with only the IF and the DLF-s coming late).
This is where the TI's are coming to play...
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Le 04/03/2023 à 10:23, Delial a dit :
Best typo ever.
Haha, I had not notice !
il y a 56 minutes, Rashidi a dit :I came in to see if we shared the same issues with my save, unfortunately not.
If you want your wide player to be the main goalscorer then play him like an IF or RMD and then use a combination of roles on one side to draw players there. You want someone on that side to have switch ball to other flank as a trait, but its not necessary. Roles like an IW or an AP wide with a Mezzala or RPM in a 4231 will draw players to that side, now you have the players and roles that can attract opposition players. In this case it would be easier to achieve the passes with a mid block during a transition.Thanks a lot. I did try a combination of W, AP and IWB on the opposite flank of the IF, but I had mixed results…
The best thing I can do is starting over my tactic. I think I’m trying something too complicated (With a F9, a W on his wrong foot, a RPM, A IWB who takes the place of the Mezz while building up).
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Hi everyone !
I’m posting because I struggle so much to make a wide player a main goalscorer.
I play Arsenal, and both Martinelli and Saka have fantastic attributes for IW or IF. However, I always fail to make my wide players shining.
And, tbf, I don’t know what I am missing.
The best way I found so far is putting the wide player as an AF with stay wider, but it’s a bit like cheating…
I feel like I’m loosing my « football mind ». I’m a huge fan of Cleon’s and BTN’s work. They helped me to keep things simple stupid, but working.
However, for the wide players, it feels like very complicated…
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Il y a 12 heures, TheJanitor a dit :
Why not False 9? Looks perfect for the role. Play Jesus on the wing or rotate.
I already did a thread about Ødegaard as a F9 in FM22, you can check it out
even though he did a great job, I have several reasons to not play him as a F9 :
- G. Jesus is doing a fantastic job as a F9, and both are star players. I can’t rotate one with another (or it will be 1. A waste and 2. A problem about playing time) ;
- I already did it and I felt that he wasn’t enough of a goalscorer (missing very easy goal, like he can do as a Mezz-a)
Il y a 12 heures, Yisz a dit :Maybe try RPM? Just an idea… never played with Arsenal but I can imagine him going up and down the pitch dictating play and creating overloads to then play in Saka could work well.
I was considering playing him as a playmaker, between an AP or a RPM.
It will make him a ball magnet, so I should take that into account if I want to create overload
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Good evening everyone !
Finish the season 2 with the following resultats :
- UCL winner
- Carabao Cup Winner
- Community Shield Winner
- UEFA Supercup winner
- 2nd in PL (lost at the end of the season as I lacked of players, they were all tired at the end)
Here is the tactic :
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As you can see, Saka became the 2nd best goalscorer (but G. Jesus being way ahead with 40 goals !) and the top assist with 16.
The main tweak was putting Martinelli as a W-a to keep the width and Tomi as a FB-a for the same thing.
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Hi everyone !
I finish my 2nd season with Arsenal, winning the UCL, 2nd of PL, CS and Carabao Cup winner !
Here are the current attributes of Odegaard :
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I'm currently playing him as a Mezz A. Even though he performs well (same number of goals that the xG, 13 assists), I feel he struggle with finishing and I waste is assisting playstyle (maybe I'm over expecting from him).
For example, I feel that F. Viera is doing better than Ode in the Mezz-a role :
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Here is my current tactic (you can see that I play a classic 2-3-5 when in possession, possession based tactic) :
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I'm open for any suggestion ! Maybe should I play with both Odegaard and Viera (especially that I'm selling Partey and Laimer during this transfer window)
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We lack of information to give you specific advice. However, considering it’s a 4231, here are some advice we can tell inspired by IRL :
1. 4231 is a top heavy formation, meaning that if you struggle to play from the back, you should not do it
2. 4231 is very effective for pressing the backline. You can either play a 5 at the back system (you will have one extra man) or try to look for a playmaker in the middle
3. As someone said, they have a huge gap in the middle. You can try to quickly move your team on that space (beating the pressing of the front 4) and then attacking patiently from the midfield (if the front 4 comes to defend, it will be easier to defend if they recover the ball)
4. Most of the time, the AMC is the core (by being the main goalscorer or the main creator). Use OI’s on him should steralize their attacks.
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il y a 5 minutes, _mxrky a dit :
Making ballon d’or winners in fm is quite hard when you play in the premier league. You basically have to gear your entire system to him (and this may include putting him on most of the set pieces). I think the new version of the tactic should maximise his output although it won’t really be a recreation of Arteta’s arsenal if that’s what you wanted originally.
maybe having the wingback on Wb- attack could be good if you want all 5 channels occupied constantly in the final third plus the byline cutbacks to the inside forward rather than the deeper crosses you get from from the fullback.
I’m not seeking an Arteta recreation here (it is my previous thread).
I’m aiming on creating a winger as a main goalscorer
yes, I’m talking Ballon d’Or but let’s say a worldwide attacker ! It is going to be difficult with Haaland and Mbappé to win it…
Having the 2 WB on attack ? I’m not sure I have the players for it + it is very risky, while this tactic is already risky.
but I’ll keep that in mind
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Well ok !
And, otherwise, other comments about the process ? Switching to a 4231, following the Saka BO winner ?
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il y a 11 minutes, BadAss88 a dit :
I would switch your CM-roles around, it makes more sense.
Why that ?
And I’m not sure that playing a BPD behind a CM-d is a great idea
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Thinking a lot about the « attacking » playstyle, as I said yesterday.
I think that, by « attacking », we’re looking at Hansi Flick’s Bayern, or ETH’s Ajax. Something very agressive in the end, suffocating the opponent in their own half.
I give it a go : win 7-0 against Watford.
However, I was not a huge fan of the playstyle. Most of my goals where from midfielders shooting from distance because we overload their box. Furthermore, I don’t like how we play.
I give a go to the BTN/Rashidi Arsenal recreation and it’s very close to what I’m looking for.
So, here is the thing : I said that I wanted to create a tactic (1.) that makes Saka shine (2.).
Taking BTN recreation miss the first point. So, I’m going to create my own based on my experience with one tweak :
- I will play with a 4231 as it helps to naturally overload the opponent half (as I have no DM, I won’t play with an IWB. Zinchenko has a great left foot. However, Aaron’s….)
- it will be easier to overload the left space to make Saka the main goal scorer.
I think I will go with something like this :
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Il y a 15 heures, frukox a dit :
Try it out for a number of games and see whether it will work for you and I strongly advise you to try the set-up I've already shown you above if you aren't using an IWB any more:)
I saw, but I really want to succeed in my own way. Copying what you’re doing won’t help me to improve.
Thinking during my lunch break, I think I lost myself in my tactic. I think I made too many confusion between attacking football and counter attacking football. Especially, I wanted Saka to beat them with a lot of space, while this reflects more a counter-attacking tactic more than an attacking tactic.
If we think of Mbappe as an IF-a (even though I think he’s more an IW-a), he’s rarely playing in a counter attacking style right now (facing a lot of low blocks).
Times to times, he does have counter attack opportunities, but he also plays more with the ball on his feet !
Maybe that’s where I begin to being mislead.
I will do all the process once again (starting from scratch).
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I think I find something interresting : putting the left side with Martinelli as a IW-a and Odegaard as a Mezz-a, while both G. Jesus as a F9 and Saka as an IF-s (and not on attack).
Now, i have the left side pushing up and on the left, freeing space for both the F9 and the IF-s that are deeper. I felt that, before, Saka was the one pushing up the field, so it was difficult for him to find space
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Il y a 2 heures, frukox a dit :
As you wish. My only concern would be your static midfield. APA and CMS will support the play but who is going to get forward so as not to isolate the striker. If I went for such a supporting midfield set-up, I'd try to make up for it by being really aggressive on the wings like Klopp's Liverpool.You can report your findings here and will happily try to help you if you have any other problems. Cheers.
I feel you about the static midfield.
What about the IWB on Attack duty ? And the AP on support ?
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Arteta’s Arsenal recreation
in Tactics, Training & Strategies Discussion
Posted
We're not going to be together on this, so it is no debate now. Just to finish : it is a nonsense to ask a player to pass the ball slowly. Tempo means the tempo of the build-up, not of the passes.
It is because the counter. As soon as they get the ball, they counter. Furthermore, they have players like Zinchenko and Odegaard playing long ball.
I'm only talking about my replication. Not yours.
It doesn't.
It is true and a shame tbh.
And you can see in my screenshots that my winger (on the right, not Martinelli) does stay wide, even with narrow width.
One more time : you're using too many instruction while you could simplify it, IMO.
One player has to stay wide*. If you take a look at the heatmap I linked, you can see that Saka tends to stay wider, contrary to Martinelli (who can switch with the STC). It is why you can see, IRL, Xhaka or Zinchenko bombing down the wing, something you don't see with Odegaard and Saka.
Because, during a build-up, an IW will cut inside. If you want someone to stay wide on the wing, it is a Winger you want.