LeoFM

Totally depends on the capacity of the PC running the save.

If anyone wants to help out with testing the update:

If anyone wants to help out with testing the update:

If anyone with a decent PC wants to help with testing the new update for player development, I've prepared a new save with exactly the same database setup as one I that already have data from before the update. Here is the save: https://www.mediafire.com/file/nev7wx9hpv79ler/FM23_Player_Development_Test_%28Oct_25_Minor_Update%29.zip/file Just holiday until Jan 1st 2039 and then send the save to me. Of course you can also see after about 5 seasons if the wonderkids do have developed technicals and report that as an initial observation. Any help will be much appreciated

I mean, we firstly need to simulate to the future with the new update. @SupraFlush will hopefully be on that soon!

Yeah I fully agree with this. As a software developer myself I find it very peculiar how such issues can stay in the game for such a long time. Especially knowing that SI do have the resources to correct these issues. I guess the problem is that the "average FM player" does not notice/care enough about these things. As long as enough people are playing and paying for the game it seems SI are not that bothered. This makes the smaller "FM addicts" population perceive the service level as very bad (rightly so).

It's two seperate issues though. The first thread you linked is about the issue with low number of newgens generated which did get fixed for FM22 (not the same thing as newgen attribute development).

@SupraFlush Thank you very much! Will take a look at this after work tomorrow.

At the same time, now that they are forced to focus on these issues, maybe they will be able to make this the most balanced FM edition ever. Highly doubt it tho...

Great analysis, hope SI will have a serious look at this. So many glaring issues with player development that you point out here - honestly makes me wonder whether the task to fix this before release will be too much for SI. And I just can't comprehend the fact that they bragged in the blog post about having worked on improving the long term game world balance... Going to be very interesting to see the results when they patch this though.

From what I've seen so far, they actually develop quite decent technicals:

All leagues fron every country, however if you notice the sim is too slow then do just the top flights (with maybe 2nd tier in the big five nations). As for the player database, you can select (in the advanced section) every continent and tick all boxes except for "Players based in nation" and "Players of nationality". This is what I used for my previous simulation. Thanks again, good work!

It could be that technical attributes do develop on players at your own club (has this been confirmed yet?)

Well currently my priority is getting a save with some of the top leagues loaded to January 1st 2039 to compare the results to my first sim with only one league loaded. Would really appreciate if you helped me get that save to 2039! Download the save from the link below and holiday until Jan 1st 2039 (do not add/remove any leagues), then you can send me the save through mediafire or whatever file uploading tool you want. https://www.mediafire.com/file/l47v013iiqc8nw2/FM23_Player_Development_Test_Top_Leagues_Loaded.zip/file How long would it take you to holiday to 2039 with all leagues loaded? That would be my second priority since it would measure the affect of playable leagues to a greater degree of accuracy. Tbh I don't know how much more testing there is needed to be done on this, since SI have already confirmed they are working on a fix. But I think it could be good to gather some more data so that the FM community gets to know exactly how much this bug affects long term saves is and if there is anything we can do to manage the impact of it. I'm of course expecting SI to put out a patch for this in the following week so would be nice to have some data to compare that to as well. Thanks a lot for helping out!

Did he upload the save? I'm interested in having a look at it

This is the best player in the world at 2035 in my new simulation, pretty much sums up the issue with player development. (Not saying there shouldn't be players with underdeveloped technicals compared to mentals/physicals as they do exist IRL but there is just too much of this in FM23)

I am currently in the process of simulating to 2039 on a new save with a different database setup. I want to measure the impact loaded leagues potentially have on long term player development, compared to only having one league loaded as I did in my first simulation. The database setup is shown in the spoiler below: The thing is that my computer is pretty weak and this sim is progressing slowly for me, so I've only come as far as 2030 in 23 hours of simulation. So I'm wondering if anyone would be willing to help me reach the year 2039 faster. I.E, I will upload my save file, then someone with a beefier computer than me simulates to Jan 1st 2039 and then sends the save file to me? Alternatively, maybe someone has already simulated to around 2035-40 with a similar database setup and would be willing to upload their save for the sake of the test?

Thanks Andrew! Nice to hear that the team is working on this and that the fix will be save game compatible.

"As always, we’ve done more work to improve newgen generation and balance the game world for those who, like me, enjoy playing with long-term saves." - Those are the words of Miles Jacobson three days ago in the FMFC blog post about new features and QOL changes. Now I understand that we are still in the early beta phase and bugs are going to occur. But I cannot understand how SI can publicly announce that the state of long-term game world in FM23 was balanced three days ago only for them to today consider it a known issue. I mean, the only testing that was needed for this was to boot up a save and simulate a number of seasons. That's it. Do SI just not test their own game or what (jk)? If you already know that it's not working as it should, do not announce it as balanced, at least say it's under development. I don't want to come across as moaning, I fully respect the implications of developing a game like FM but I care too much about this game to just ignore this. Sorry if I have misinterpreted the statement from Miles in the blog post, it's actually quite hard to decipher what is meant in that sentence, but I think this (newgen attributes being realistic and balanced in the future) is what he meant.

I hope you are okay with me copy pasting this from this thread: I have gathered some data with respect to the attributes of outfield players with media description elite/world class/legendary in 2022 vs 2039. I ran a simulation over night and when I checked it out this morning I did observe that the technical development of players was very poor in 2039 in comparison to 2022, among other findings. I wanted to see just how big the difference was, so I exported all top outfield players attributes to excel and then took the average attribute value with both the 2022 set (89 players) and the 2039 set (52 players). Here are my results: The average FM23 'top' outfield player 2022: Physicals Acceleration: 14.0 Agility: 13.8 Balance: 14.4 Jumping reach: 11.3 Natural fitness: 15.1 Pace: 14.1 Stamina: 14.5 Strength: 12.9 Mentals Aggression: 12.4 Anticipation: 15.5 Bravery: 13.5 Composure: 15.1 Concentration: 13.6 Decisions: 14.5 Determination: 15.8 Flair: 14.3 Leadership: 12.4 Off the ball: 14.4 Positioning: 10.9 Teamwork: 14.5 Vision: 14.8 Work rate: 14.1 Technicals Corners: 10.0 Crossing: 12.2 Dribbling: 14.2 Finishing: 12.7 First touch: 15.6 Free kicks: 11.4 Heading: 11.7 Long shots: 12.5 Long throws: 6.0 Marking: 9.2 Passing: 15.2 Penalties: 12.8 Tackling: 15.8 The average FM23 'top' outfield player 2039: Difference from 2022 in parentheses, any negative change more than 1 attribute point in red, any positive change more than 1 attribute point in green Physicals Acceleration: 12.4 (-1.6) Agility: 13.4 (-0.4) Balance: 14.3 (-0.1) Jumping reach: 11.3 (±0) Natural fitness: 13.4 (-1.7) Pace: 13.0 (-1.1) Stamina: 15.5 (+1.0) Strength: 14.8 (+1.9) Mentals Aggression: 11.9 (+0.5) Anticipation: 18.5 (+3.0) Bravery: 12.9 (+0.6) Composure: 16.6 (+1.5) Concentration: 15.6 (+2.0) Decisions: 17.5 (+3.0) Determination: 15.3 (+0.5) Flair: 11.0 (-3.3) Leadership: 17.9 (+5.5) ! Off the ball: 12.1 (-2.3) Positioning: 14.6 (+3.7) Teamwork: 11.8 (-2.7) Vision: 14.8 (±0) Work rate: 12.0 (-2.1) Technicals Corners: 8.1 (-1.9) Crossing: 6.2 (-6.0) ! Dribbling: 8.7 (-5.5) ! Finishing: 5.6 (-7.1) ! (jesus christ) First touch: 11.4 (-4.2) Free kicks: 8.7 (-2.7) Heading: 8.9 (-2.8) Long shots: 8.6 (-3.9) Long throws: 6.9 (+0.9) Marking: 12.6 (+3.4) Passing: 11.2 (-4.0) Penalties: 8.5 (-4.3) Tackling: 9.8 (-6.0) ! The physical attributes are pretty balanced (maybe the quickness should be a bit higher for 2039). Anticipation, decisions, leadership and positioning are the standout mentals in terms of being too high for the 2039 group, with flair, off the ball, teamwork and work rate being the opposite of that. As for the technicals, this is where the extremes start. Crossing, dribbling, finishing, first touch, passing, penalties and tackling all being on average more than 4 attributes points lower for the 2039 group than the 2022 group. Marking is the only attributes that was higher for the 2039 group by a significant margin. My thoughts: Obviously this is maybe not the perfect example and test as I am using the group of top players in 2022 as some kind of benchmark. Future generations of top footballers will of course not have the exact same set of attributes as the current one, so in my opinion a difference of less than 1 attribute point is expected and realistic. I hope this data can be helpful for SI in the process of making the long term player development in FM23 the best ever! I also want to mention that only one league was loaded while simulating, which could have impacted the results. In my opinion, that doesn't really matter, because player development should be realistic either way. But I will try this again with the top leagues loaded just to see if the results are different!

Yeah I'll bring this up on the bug tracker don't worry

I have gathered some data with respect to the attributes of outfield players with media description elite/world class/legendary in 2022 vs 2039. I did observe that the technical development of players was very poor in 2039 in comparison to 2022. I wanted to see just how big the difference was, so I exported all top outfield players attributes to excel and then took the average attribute value with both the 2022 set (89 players) and the 2039 set (52 players). Here are my results: The average FM23 'top' outfield player 2022: Physicals Acceleration: 14.0 Agility: 13.8 Balance: 14.4 Jumping reach: 11.3 Natural fitness: 15.1 Pace: 14.1 Stamina: 14.5 Strength: 12.9 Mentals Aggression: 12.4 Anticipation: 15.5 Bravery: 13.5 Composure: 15.1 Concentration: 13.6 Decisions: 14.5 Determination: 15.8 Flair: 14.3 Leadership: 12.4 Off the ball: 14.4 Positioning: 10.9 Teamwork: 14.5 Vision: 14.8 Work rate: 14.1 Technicals Corners: 10.0 Crossing: 12.2 Dribbling: 14.2 Finishing: 12.7 First touch: 15.6 Free kicks: 11.4 Heading: 11.7 Long shots: 12.5 Long throws: 6.0 Marking: 9.2 Passing: 15.2 Penalties: 12.8 Tackling: 15.8 The average FM23 'top' outfield player 2039: Difference from 2022 in parentheses, any negative change more than 1 attribute point in red, any positive change more than 1 attribute point in green Physicals Acceleration: 12.4 (-1.6) Agility: 13.4 (-0.4) Balance: 14.3 (-0.1) Jumping reach: 11.3 (±0) Natural fitness: 13.4 (-1.7) Pace: 13.0 (-1.1) Stamina: 15.5 (+1.0) Strength: 14.8 (+1.9) Mentals Aggression: 11.9 (+0.5) Anticipation: 18.5 (+3.0) Bravery: 12.9 (+0.6) Composure: 16.6 (+1.5) Concentration: 15.6 (+2.0) Decisions: 17.5 (+3.0) Determination: 15.3 (+0.5) Flair: 11.0 (-3.3) Leadership: 17.9 (+5.5) ! Off the ball: 12.1 (-2.3) Positioning: 14.6 (+3.7) Teamwork: 11.8 (-2.7) Vision: 14.8 (±0) Work rate: 12.0 (-2.1) Technicals Corners: 8.1 (-1.9) Crossing: 6.2 (-6.0) ! Dribbling: 8.7 (-5.5) ! Finishing: 5.6 (-7.1) ! (jesus christ) First touch: 11.4 (-4.2) Free kicks: 8.7 (-2.7) Heading: 8.9 (-2.8) Long shots: 8.6 (-3.9) Long throws: 6.9 (+0.9) Marking: 12.6 (+3.4) Passing: 11.2 (-4.0) Penalties: 8.5 (-4.3) Tackling: 9.8 (-6.0) ! The physical attributes are pretty balanced (maybe the quickness should be a bit higher for 2039). Anticipation, decisions, leadership and positioning are the standout mentals in terms of being too high for the 2039 group, with flair, off the ball, teamwork and work rate being the opposite of that. As for the technicals, this is where the extremes start. Crossing, dribbling, finishing, first touch, passing, penalties and tackling all being on average more than 4 attributes points lower for the 2039 group than the 2022 group. Marking is the only attributes that was higher for the 2039 group by a significant margin. My thoughts: Obviously this is maybe not the perfect example and test as I am using the group of top players in 2022 as some kind of benchmark. Future generations of top footballers will of course not have the exact same set of attributes as the current one, so in my opinion a difference of less than 1 attribute point is expected and realistic. I hope this data can be helpful for SI in the process of making the long term player development in FM23 the best ever! I also want to mention that only one league was loaded while simulating, which could have impacted the results. In my opinion, that doesn't really matter, because player development should be realistic either way. But I will try this again with the top leagues loaded just to see if the results are different!

Definitely!

I chose one playable league (Sweden) and then let the game run over night and stopped the simulation this morning at January 1st 2039. I chose a pretty large player pool at the beginning, about 120 000 players. My observations: 1. The player pool is now 114 000 players, so the number of newgens generated seem to be fairly balanced. 2. Leading transfers: Thirteen €100m+ transfers by 2039. Interesting to see a club like KRC Genk receive €102M for a player. 3. Top players: 8 out of the 12 top players are real players. The top 5 players in the world shown in the spoiler all have something thing in common: very high anticipation, composure and decisions (all five players had 20 decisions!). I also want to say that they are all a bit underwhelming in their technical attributes. Surely you would expect Endrick and Musiala to have more 16+ technicals? 4. Newgen fullbacks, crossing still an issue? There are only 19 newgen fullbacks with 13 or higher crossing in the entire database. Only 2 newgens have 14 crossing. Not a single fullback have 15 or higher crossing. 5. Centre backs having high marking and low heading: The four centre backs in the 'top players' list all had heading lower than 14 and marking higher than 16. 6. There are only 9 wonderkids. This number seems pretty low for me, considering the game starts out with 34 wonderkids. 7. The number of players with elite/world class/legendary media description: As I do not have access to an in game editor this is sort of a way of counting how many top players there are in the database. At the start of the game, there was 68 elite, 20 world class and 8 legendary players (total of 96). At 2039, there is 35 elite, 11 world class and 6 legendary players (total of 52). So the number of 'top' players decreased by 46% in 17 years. Now I did only have one league loaded and I don't know what impact that had on the development of footballers around the world, but surely this is not balanced. It doesn't matter if the top leagues are not loaded or not, their players should develop. It could also be a case of just having players spawn with too low PA looking at the number of wonderkids, but also a player needs to reach a certain CA to be considered a wonderkid I think. All in all, I my observation is that player development seems to be too slow in FM23. 8. The only league I had loaded (Swedish Allsvenskan) rose to 8th place in the European league rankings. This is not too surprising as it has been the case in previous FM editions that the game generally will make the loaded leagues stronger than the onloaded. 9. In the 2024/25 season, the Champions League changed to its new format. (which made me pretty sad) 10. Erling Haaland did not dominate world football. He "only" won the Ballon d'Or four times.