[WIP] [FM20] England down to Level 11

[FCUtdWill]

4 hours ago, ratio1618 said:

Most of what you outlined is still in the process of being figured out as this DB doesnt account for next years league structure changes.

Next season’s league structure will be the same as it is this season, the changes have been postponed until the 2021/22 season at the earliest.

[ratio1618]

1 minute ago, FCUtdWill said:

Next season’s league structure will be the same as it is this season, the changes have been postponed until the 2021/22 season at the earliest.

You gotta be ****ing kidding me. Can i get your source for this or is it just speculation? Im assuming its real since all the leagues are closed.

RIP Football manager 2021 editing for Lower league in england then. Its going to be the same convoluted BS as this year.

[FCUtdWill]

No speculation, it’s the truth, this is a quote from the FA website:

We will continue to assist and support the National League (NLS steps one and two) to determine the outcome of its 2019-20 season as quickly as possible. The planned implementation of the restructure of the NLS will also now be deferred until the start of the 2021-22 season.

Full statement here.

[ratio1618]

Okay well if thats the case then we need to contact SI's Database and editor team ASAP to make sure we can make the changes for 21/22 and not have the ****ing birdsnest of issues that we have in the current iteration of the default DB.

[FCUtdWill]

What are the issues you’re having?

[ratio1618]

Im talking about the english databse when you take it into advanced and all the nonsense they added to compensate for both the VN N/S as well as Burys Exclusion which made it neigh on impossible to have the editor verify anything when making changes and also with the VN n/S having three relegation spots each randomly. Its a known bug thats been logged with SI but nothing has been done since November.

Its one of the main problems i had when trying to do what Lionel is doing here when creating a 20/21 and 21/22 fmf with all the changes working between both years, the current SI database is messy as ****. Literally make new nation rules add a divison to England and then take it into advanced and try make sense of what they have done and why.

[FCUtdWill]

Well, I’ve added Bury back to League One to make them back up to 24 clubs and made the National League North/South have three relegations each no problem. And this is in the normal editor.

As I’ve said to LM various times on this thread, concentrate on getting this season’s structure working before looking at next season’s.

With what’s going on in the world at the moment, we don’t know when the 19/20 season will finish and we don’t know when the 20/21 season will start.

[lionel messi]

20 hours ago, FCUtdWill said:

Well, I’ve added Bury back to League One to make them back up to 24 clubs and made the National League North/South have three relegations each no problem. And this is in the normal editor.

As I’ve said to LM various times on this thread, concentrate on getting this season’s structure working before looking at next season’s.

With what’s going on in the world at the moment, we don’t know when the 19/20 season will finish and we don’t know when the 20/21 season will start.

So you have only got 6 teams getting promoted from the regional premier divisions then?

[Fmfan00]

Messi... I want to move Sunderland from L1 down to the lowest level because a project that I have after watching their documentary however I get a error with the I think with league 1 any way to fix this rule or get around it... want to bring Sunderland down to Level 11 and rebuild them as a club with my story line.

 

Alls i did was go into League 1 swap Sunderland with another team from Level 11 and i had to test the rules and i got a error saying that teams didnt match

Edited April 10, 2020 by Fmfan00

[FCUtdWill]

3 hours ago, lionel messi said:

So you have only got 6 teams getting promoted from the regional premier divisions then?

Yes I do, I’ve got three relegations from each of the National League North & South too.

[lionel messi]

4 hours ago, FCUtdWill said:

Yes I do, I’ve got three relegations from each of the National League North & South too.

surely it would better to have 4 down from each national league north/south and 8 promoted from the regional premier divisions, 2 from each division.

[FCUtdWill]

21 minutes ago, lionel messi said:

surely it would better to have 4 down from each national league north/south and 8 promoted from the regional premier divisions, 2 from each division.

You can do it whichever way you want as both would work.

I’ve chosen to do it that way because there’s always been 3 relegations from each division in the past, this season there would have been 2, now there isn’t any.

[oohlala111]

57 minutes ago, lionel messi said:

surely it would better to have 4 down from each national league north/south and 8 promoted from the regional premier divisions, 2 from each division.

That way would definitely make more sense with 1 league winner and 1 playoff winner from each; none of this superplayoff BS

[andydick]

4 hours ago, lionel messi said:

surely it would better to have 4 down from each national league north/south and 8 promoted from the regional premier divisions, 2 from each division.

 

I'd agree - that is the simplest way and essentially that's what will happen anyway once the re-structuring has taken place  - although by then there'll be 24 teams in the Vanarama North/South not the 22 there is now.

Edited April 10, 2020 by andydick

[lionel messi]

20 hours ago, Fmfan00 said:

Messi... I want to move Sunderland from L1 down to the lowest level because a project that I have after watching their documentary however I get a error with the I think with league 1 any way to fix this rule or get around it... want to bring Sunderland down to Level 11 and rebuild them as a club with my story line.

 

Alls i did was go into League 1 swap Sunderland with another team from Level 11 and i had to test the rules and i got a error saying that teams didnt match

It has something to do with the real fixtures, Because you have moved sunderland from league 1 you have messed the fixtures up.

[Mikeonhisboat]

Hey Messi,

Firstly - Wow.......... Thankyou for all the time you're sinking into this. I hope you get to play soon.

Secondly - does this version have local cups down to level 10? And all working okay at that level (I read you are working out some kinks re/accurate promotions to/from Lvl 11? but starting in level 10 should work okay? And if so, would you recommend loading up lvl11 too? Or leaving that as a non-playable league for now? Am aware next year's structural changes aren't in this yet, but that bothers the likes of me not one jot....

Thanks so much,

M

[lionel messi]

59 minutes ago, Mikeonhisboat said:

Hey Messi,

Firstly - Wow.......... Thankyou for all the time you're sinking into this. I hope you get to play soon.

Secondly - does this version have local cups down to level 10? And all working okay at that level (I read you are working out some kinks re/accurate promotions to/from Lvl 11? but starting in level 10 should work okay? And if so, would you recommend loading up lvl11 too? Or leaving that as a non-playable league for now? Am aware next year's structural changes aren't in this yet, but that bothers the likes of me not one jot....

Thanks so much,

M

Yes everthing should work just fine down to Level 11. League cups are all the way down to Level 11 with extended FA Cup & FA Vase.

I dont think that next seasons proposed structure will be done because it is very completed to get the numbers right with extra Leagues at some levels and fewer leagues at some levels.

I am at least going to make league 1 return to 24 clubs after the 1st season and im going to sort out the northern counties east league division 1 relegation places out.

[Mikeonhisboat]

13 minutes ago, lionel messi said:

Yes everthing should work just fine down to Level 11. League cups are all the way down to Level 11 with extended FA Cup & FA Vase.

I dont think that next seasons proposed structure will be done because it is very completed to get the numbers right with extra Leagues at some levels and fewer leagues at some levels.

I am at least going to make league 1 return to 24 clubs after the 1st season and im going to sort out the northern counties east league division 1 relegation places out.

What happens at the moment with the northern counties east league division 1 relegation places? I ask cos thats the league am likely to start in! And fully intend to flirt with relegation the first couple of years at least...

Also - by 'local cups' I meant the amateur cups (might be using wrong phrasing) - Milk Cup in Liverpool area etc. The very localised nearzero reputation cups. Possibly 'county cups'? I've had a look and can see they're not in. How much work do you estimate it'd be for me to do a hatchet job of crow barring them in to my own game? I wouldn't be rying to make them accate bar the one my team would be in. Just to get something in there. So wouldn't needto do much in terms of research. Just the raw task of setting up a lot of local competitions.

[lionel messi]

10 minutes ago, Mikeonhisboat said:

What happens at the moment with the northern counties east league division 1 relegation places? I ask cos thats the league am likely to start in! And fully intend to flirt with relegation the first couple of years at least...

Also - by 'local cups' I meant the amateur cups (might be using wrong phrasing) - Milk Cup in Liverpool area etc. The very localised nearzero reputation cups. Possibly 'county cups'? I've had a look and can see they're not in. How much work do you estimate it'd be for me to do a hatchet job of crow barring them in to my own game? I wouldn't be rying to make them accate bar the one my team would be in. Just to get something in there. So wouldn't needto do much in terms of research. Just the raw task of setting up a lot of local competitions.

There is no Local cups as such, they are specific League cups.

There might be too many games in the season if you add too many more cups in and would result in fixture congestion at the end of the season. (even more so if you are succesful in the league cups.)

currently there is 7 relegation places from that division because of the leagues below that promote into that division. but this will be narrowed down to 3 when i finish it. im going to have 3 of the 7 teams promoted based on PPG basis.

 

[Mikeonhisboat]

57 minutes ago, lionel messi said:

There is no Local cups as such, they are specific League cups.

There might be too many games in the season if you add too many more cups in and would result in fixture congestion at the end of the season. (even more so if you are succesful in the league cups.)

currently there is 7 relegation places from that division because of the leagues below that promote into that division. but this will be narrowed down to 3 when i finish it. im going to have 3 of the 7 teams promoted based on PPG basis.

 

If i wanted to set my version to only have 3 go down now, and as i'm not bothered about having accurate lvl 11 promotions. Could I just set some of the lvl11 leaguws to not allow promotion/relegation or something , leaving a few with promotion enabled so that it balanced out at 3 up and 3 down? (Or 2 or 4 - but 7 scares me!)

Completely separate question but does the real names fix download work happily alongside your file? Should I apply that first? Or after? 

[lionel messi]

4 minutes ago, Mikeonhisboat said:

If i wanted to set my version to only have 3 go down now, and as i'm not bothered about having accurate lvl 11 promotions. Could I just set some of the lvl11 leaguws to not allow promotion/relegation or something , leaving a few with promotion enabled so that it balanced out at 3 up and 3 down? (Or 2 or 4 - but 7 scares me!)

Completely separate question but does the real names fix download work happily alongside your file? Should I apply that first? Or after? 

Yes you could do that but you will have to have the correct numbers set at both levels.

I dont know about if the seperate file works alongside mine or not.

[GreyedOutMan]

Hey guys - just wanted to ask here because some of you may have experience of it: I didn't bother with kits in the early part of my save but  have now put in a new logo for my club (which worked) and I've designed new kits, which I've put into a kit pack and edited the config file to point them towards my team (Kensington Dragons) but it's not working. All the others are but not mine. Any idea why?

Edited April 12, 2020 by GreyedOutMan

[GreyedOutMan]

;

Edited April 13, 2020 by GreyedOutMan

[andydick]

20 hours ago, lionel messi said:

I am at least going to make league 1 return to 24 clubs after the 1st season and im going to sort out the northern counties east league division 1 relegation places out.

Yeah, this would be good.  Certainly beyond me at the moment with my limited ability.  I can't even manage to get the number of relegation places right in L1 for 2019/20.

Obviously the vanilla game, minus updates, works fine.   In 2019/20 L1 starts with 23 teams with 3 relegated.  At the start of the 2020/21 season L1 starts with 24 teams with 4 relegated.  Nice.

But if I just load the database (20.4.0) into the editor, add England Nation (check add lower leagues), convert to advanced rules, verify the rules and then save the database I end up starting 2019/20 with 23 teams and 4 (not 3) relegation spots even though I've actually done nothing to the database.  Running through a season and starting 2020/21 I also have 23 teams and 4 relegation spots.

Is this just an error with the advanced editor because I started a save with this (Lionel's) update and I start 2019/20 with 23 teams in L1 and 4 relegation spots instead of the expected 3?

 

Edited April 13, 2020 by andydick

[FCUtdWill]

23 hours ago, lionel messi said:

currently there is 7 relegation places from that division because of the leagues below that promote into that division. but this will be narrowed down to 3 when i finish it. im going to have 3 of the 7 teams promoted based on PPG basis.

 

Which seven leagues do you have feeding  NCEL1? I make it 3 as a minimum and 5 as a maximum.

[Nobby_McDonald]

19 hours ago, GreyedOutMan said:

;

This type of posting just pisses people off and won't encourage replies.

[GreyedOutMan]

1 hour ago, Nobby_McDonald said:

This type of posting just pisses people off and won't encourage replies.

Yeah, sorry, I posted in the wrong forum and I figured a blank post was better than an irrelevant one! Couldn't see any way to delete it.

[Nobby_McDonald]

That's fair enough.

I've just looked and you are right - you can't seem to delete your own posts.

[lionel messi]

On 13/04/2020 at 12:15, andydick said:

Yeah, this would be good.  Certainly beyond me at the moment with my limited ability.  I can't even manage to get the number of relegation places right in L1 for 2019/20.

Obviously the vanilla game, minus updates, works fine.   In 2019/20 L1 starts with 23 teams with 3 relegated.  At the start of the 2020/21 season L1 starts with 24 teams with 4 relegated.  Nice.

But if I just load the database (20.4.0) into the editor, add England Nation (check add lower leagues), convert to advanced rules, verify the rules and then save the database I end up starting 2019/20 with 23 teams and 4 (not 3) relegation spots even though I've actually done nothing to the database.  Running through a season and starting 2020/21 I also have 23 teams and 4 relegation spots.

Is this just an error with the advanced editor because I started a save with this (Lionel's) update and I start 2019/20 with 23 teams in L1 and 4 relegation spots instead of the expected 3?

 

No its a fix just to make it work.

I will soon hopefully have it reverting back to 24 teams in League 1 for the 2020-21 season.

[lionel messi]

Ive got everything working down to regional premier divisions now

24 teams in League 1 from 2020-21 season.

[Ivs]

1 ora fa, lionel messi ha scritto:

Ive got everything working down to regional premier divisions now

24 teams in League 1 from 2020-21 season.

No way to sort regional first divisions, too?

[lionel messi]

13 minutes ago, Ivs said:

No way to sort regional first divisions, too?

im working on it.

getting a error at the moment.

[lionel messi]

On 16/04/2020 at 15:16, lionel messi said:

im working on it.

getting a error at the moment.

I have altered a few things and i think i now have it working all the way down to Level 11.

Im going to test it out to see if all is ok then release the update.

[Ivs]

Could I ask you what format you eventually managed to set for Level 7, 8 & 9?

[lionel messi]

14 hours ago, Ivs said:

Could I ask you what format you eventually managed to set for Level 7, 8 & 9?

Level 7

2 promoted from each division, 1 champion & 1 playoff winner. 8 promoted in total.

3 releagated from each division apart from isthmian league, 4 relegated. 13 relegated in total.

 

Level 8

2 promoted from each division, 1 chamion & 1 playoff winner. 14 promoted in total.

4 relegated from each division apart from southern league division 1 south, 3 relegated. 27 relegated in total.

 

Level 9

2 promoted from each division. 28 promoted in total.

34 relegated in total.

 

* I tried to do the Level 7 & 8 relegation using PPG but it would not verify, i kept getting a error at the end of the 2021-22 season so decided to do it this way.

* It is slightly different in the 2nd season due to League 1 returning back to 24 teams.

 

[lionel messi]

Latest file in 1st post.

also available here.

Makes sky bet League 1 return to 24 teams after the end of the 1st season.

League & Data Updates2.fmf

[lionel messi]

On 18/02/2020 at 19:58, futurist88\ said:

Hi, thanks for your work. tell me why 23 teams remain in league 1 in 2020/2021?

I have fixed this now.

[lionel messi]

On 01/04/2020 at 19:17, akm.91 said:

Does the latest update set league back to 24 teams after the 1st season or not? Thanks

It does now.

[Mikeonhisboat]

Hey Messi,

Three questions:

1) Do your files just change competitions structure, detail and rules? ie/do they change club details too? I'm wanting to customise a fair few things club detail wise and whilst I could do that within your file, it being advanced rules makes all the saving, checking, tweaking take longer. So thinking of creating a separate england database file just with the club detail changes (a few clubs moving between leagues, reputation, player changes, colour changes, stadiums etc - tweaking it for personal reasons, not realism!) Do you think this would work longter/cause conflicts? It seems to be okay in terms of avoiding dreaded red triangles on league selection screen at least.

2) Does the file on page 1 contain the level 8-11 relegation/promotion tweaks? Or just the League 1 23 vs 24 teams fix?

3) Is there anything useful random lay folk such as me can do to help in anyway?

Thanks so much for all the work you put into this. If it wasn't for files like this, I couldn't play FM. Starting in the vanarama north is just too high!

[lionel messi]

6 minutes ago, Mikeonhisboat said:

Hey Messi,

Three questions:

1) Do your files just change competitions structure, detail and rules? ie/do they change club details too? I'm wanting to customise a fair few things club detail wise and whilst I could do that within your file, it being advanced rules makes all the saving, checking, tweaking take longer. So thinking of creating a separate england database file just with the club detail changes (a few clubs moving between leagues, reputation, player changes, colour changes, stadiums etc - tweaking it for personal reasons, not realism!) Do you think this would work longter/cause conflicts? It seems to be okay in terms of avoiding dreaded red triangles on league selection screen at least.

2) Does the file on page 1 contain the level 8-11 relegation/promotion tweaks? Or just the League 1 23 vs 24 teams fix?

3) Is there anything useful random lay folk such as me can do to help in anyway?

Thanks so much for all the work you put into this. If it wasn't for files like this, I couldn't play FM. Starting in the vanarama north is just too high!

The file on page 1 makes League 1 return to 24 teams after the 1st season.

It also has other promotion & relegation tweaks, Northern counties east league division 1 now has only 3 relegation places.

Swapping teams into different leagues might cause problems espcially if the correct numbers are not there, also it could mess the cups up as well.

[Mikeonhisboat]

17 minutes ago, lionel messi said:

The file on page 1 makes League 1 return to 24 teams after the 1st season.

It also has other promotion & relegation tweaks, Northern counties east league division 1 now has only 3 relegation places.

Swapping teams into different leagues might cause problems espcially if the correct numbers are not there, also it could mess the cups up as well.

Thanks - fantastic news re/NE Counties League relegation places. Made my day

Re/swapping teams - if I get it right and am just literally swapping two teams over, checking the leagues still have the same number of places etc, do you think still likely to cause issues with cups? I thought they were set to either take all teams between certain levels of from certain leagues? So the identity of the teams in the leagues wouldn't make any difference?

[lionel messi]

1 minute ago, Mikeonhisboat said:

Thanks - fantastic news re/NE Counties League relegation places. Made my day

Re/swapping teams - if I get it right and am just literally swapping two teams over, checking the leagues still have the same number of places etc, do you think still likely to cause issues with cups? I thought they were set to either take all teams between certain levels of from certain leagues? So the identity of the teams in the leagues wouldn't make any difference?

You could try it and see what happens.

Alot of my cups that have teams from more than one level are seeded.

You would have to re verify the rules too.

[Mikeonhisboat]

@lionel messi quick niche question - any idea how to make levels 7 and lower use squad numbers? I got lvl 5 & 6 doing this via selecting it both in the database entry for those competitions and also ensuring the tickbox under nation rules in the advanced rules was ticked. But same thing doesn't seem to work for levels 7 and below? (even though sae set of national rules in your file covers everything from vanarama north/south down? (Conf rules 2?) It works in conference north, but not below that. Any ideas?

[lionel messi]

4 hours ago, Mikeonhisboat said:

@lionel messi quick niche question - any idea how to make levels 7 and lower use squad numbers? I got lvl 5 & 6 doing this via selecting it both in the database entry for those competitions and also ensuring the tickbox under nation rules in the advanced rules was ticked. But same thing doesn't seem to work for levels 7 and below? (even though sae set of national rules in your file covers everything from vanarama north/south down? (Conf rules 2?) It works in conference north, but not below that. Any ideas?

Dont forget there is 2 sets off rules one for this season.

And one set for the season after and beyond.

[timmarkcorcoran]

On 09/04/2020 at 15:39, ratio1618 said:

Ok so i have spent alot of my Lockdown time in the past week adding Competition logos and Club badges for this database with a few stipulations.
 

https://www46.zippyshare.com/v/UTAsY8Dv/file.html

That link has the .7z containing all comp/club logos aligned with Unique IDs which requires Lionel Messis database being first in the load order.  If you dont know how to install graphics there are plenty of guides on the internet, Its hella simple.

Using this version of the database will ensure it loads first and therefore every single league and club has the right graphic. If for some reason when you add files to the game at game creation and this file is not number one on the list you will need to go open it up in the editor and rename it "1a England Tier 11" Or start the file name with anything else that will ensure it is at the top of the list when you create a save game

1 England Tier 11.fmf 1.22 MB · 3 downloads

This is a ALMOST identical version to the one in OP, the only differences are that i have corrected the sponsors at step 3 - 4 (Betvictor instead of Ryman and Evostik) and accidentally left Isle of Man in as a playable team for my own save. I would remove them but it would require changing every single unique ID of the graphics and there is about 800+

There is also a hardcoded issue i ran into when trying to fix the sponsors of two leagues which i had to edit using FMscouts "real name fix" I will attach the edited file here. If you are unaware of how to install the "real name fix" the guide is easily followable on FMscouts website just replace the downloaded "FM20 Club Names by FMScout" with this  FM20 Club Names by FMScout.lnc then Betvictor will be "sponsoring" all leagues at step 3 - 4

If you find any errors/suggestions for the graphical side of this "expansion" on lionel messis work, please PM me.

Great work on the logos.

To be really cheeky, any chance you have the kits laying around too

[lionel messi]

3 hours ago, timmarkcorcoran said:

Great work on the logos.

To be really cheeky, any chance you have the kits laying around too

I didnt do the logos.

I dont have the kits sorry.

[Jogo Bonito]

Thanks for the time and effort put in to making this, much appreciated. I've just downloaded and will try to select a club.

Is there a way that person with no editor skills (me) is able to use Create A Club Mode to take over one of your Level 8 clubs? I was thinking of replacing one of the NW teams with my own-brand Bury side, but if you go in to Create A Club it doesn't let me pick up this extra database (lowest clubs you can use in that mode are at Level 6). If it's not possible or easy, i'll just go with one of the normal Level 7/8 clubs anyway.

I'll wait for your reply before starting just in case you know a solution. Thanks again for the database.

 

[lionel messi]

9 hours ago, Jogo Bonito said:

Thanks for the time and effort put in to making this, much appreciated. I've just downloaded and will try to select a club.

Is there a way that person with no editor skills (me) is able to use Create A Club Mode to take over one of your Level 8 clubs? I was thinking of replacing one of the NW teams with my own-brand Bury side, but if you go in to Create A Club it doesn't let me pick up this extra database (lowest clubs you can use in that mode are at Level 6). If it's not possible or easy, i'll just go with one of the normal Level 7/8 clubs anyway.

I'll wait for your reply before starting just in case you know a solution. Thanks again for the database.

 

I dont much about it to be honest.

Ive never used that mode before.

[CityAndColour]

Just an fyi, in the second season every team from level 7 all the way up to the EPL has its first FA Cup fixture scheduled for the same day as a league fixture.

(Apologies if this has already been raised.)

 

[Jogo Bonito]

3 hours ago, lionel messi said:

I dont much about it to be honest.

Ive never used that mode before.

No problem, thanks again for the database.