Will anyone be buying FM21?

[Parmie]

7 hours ago, Neil Brock said:

We'd love to have a bigger staff with more resources, but the reality of the games market mean there are a lot of companies going after similar talent, which means it's hard to do everything we want to. 

That's not a games industry issue, it's probably across all of IT/Software jobs as we have the same issues recruiting in cyber security. So anyone worried about robots taking all the jobs, train into software development.

Not that I've looked often but I've never seen any project management type roles advertised at SI, one of the glassdoor reviews explicitly says there isn't any, so there may well be an element of working smarter with what you have that's needed (isn't that an option in media interviews?) rather than just trying to get more people in. I'd have loved to try project managing an FM release but I've never had any interest living near London

[JordanMilly]

3 hours ago, jwccfc1987 said:

Perhaps a behind the scenes type video could go a long way to addressing some of these and other concerns? Seeing people at work, particularly programmers, or whatever else you felt like.

Given office lockdowns in the UK, I wouldn't expect that for a number of months, if at all.

[EdL]

35 minutes ago, JordanMillward_1 said:

Given office lockdowns in the UK, I wouldn't expect that for a number of months, if at all.

A guy typing on a computer isn't really a thrilling watch

[JordanMilly]

24 minutes ago, EdL said:

A guy typing on a computer isn't really a thrilling watch

"Hi there, I'm John, and right now I'm laying out the settings menu "

[DementedHammer]

If you're lucky. From my experience, it's more likely to go something like this: "Hi there, I'm John, and right now I'm investigating why this recursive function call never reaches the base case. After that, I'll be looking into why the root of my min heap isn't the smallest node in the tree."

 

 

[GPower88]

Haven't played a lot of this years game because I really don't enjoy the match engine so I can wait on the next one. Probably the first FM I don't intend buying on launch.

What's really disappointing is the game gets written off less than 6 months after launch when there's clearly a lot more work left to be done and I felt the same happened with 19. I'd rather buy a quality product I enjoy than get rinsed for easy money year after year when the game is dropping in standard and potentially left unfinished

 

[Smurf]

7 hours ago, EdL said:

A guy typing on a computer isn't really a thrilling watch

I don't know - fascinating setups! 

[XaW]

15 minutes ago, Smurf said:

I don't know - fascinating setups! 

A laptop with Slack and 8 IDE's covering three other screens? Worst use of screens I've seen!

Or is the bottom left node or something...

Edited May 22, 2020 by XaW

[Vali184]

No.

[Brother Ben]

1 hour ago, Vali184 said:

No.

Ah go on, it might be good

[sedge11]

Haven’t read the whole thread, but to answer the original post, I will 100% be buying fm21 whenever that may be.

The ME will never be perfect and will always have quirks and the odd bug, everyone obviously has different opinions on it, and while there are some very annoying parts there’s also good parts, so I wouldn’t say it broken or unplayable.

Everything outside the ME for me is brilliant and gives great depth and detail.

It’s looking like I will record more hours on fm20 than I have done on any fm for many years. For the price of the game and the hundreds of hours that is sunk into it, it’s great value.

[ChelseaSince86]

without fail.

 

Its the only game i buy every year whatever happens.  Obviously there are others too, but i tend to wait for reviews etc with them.

 

Fm i buy on day one, regardless

[JordanMilly]

 

[TheWednesday]

Yeah I'll buy it, buy it every year  and would do so even if they doubled the price as bizarre as it sounds to those with issues with the match engine etc. 

[sedge11]

Just now, JordanMillward_1 said:

 

My bad sorry didn’t realise, can remove my comment about it if need to.

[Arnar]

I did not buy 20. I was so dissapointed with fm18 then 19 was ok but it was to easy. I won every title teams just would sit back and not attack didnt matter if you where playing cl finals. Plus it was very predictable what was going to happen.

I gave up when barcelona lined up like this in the second half at nou camp when i was real madrid and i was winning 2-0.

So i wont buy fm again until i see improvements. I cant justify it to myself to sink 3000+ hours into a game (i usually dont turn off my cpu so i let the game idle) i would love to but if im not enjoying it then i dont see the point. I have played every version since cm1 and often buy it and not play that much but bought it to support si.

Hopefully one day i can play this great game again there are so many enjoyful hours i have spent playing this game and so many memories over the years.  Truly the best game ever.

[upthetoon]

Nope. Bought 19 after the last patch. wasn't impressed.

Skipped 20. Reading the comments they are almost exactly similar to 19. Shows the problems in 19 is still carried over to 20. and looking at the ME in youtube by popular players, i'm so glad i skipped it.

this series is definitely stagnating or even going backwards to the hardcore fanbase. in my opinion the game is now more for the larger casual fanbase. the hardcore fanbase who have high expectation and are used to having a great ME are going to be disappointed in the upcoming versions as well.

unless i see a drastic ME changes, i will skip 21 too.

Edited May 23, 2020 by upthetoon

[CityAndColour]

I've stopped now due to the match engine and am playing Fifa instead, but by the time November comes around I'll be back on board and raring to go.

[Smurf]

It's been nearly 10 years since I properly played a new version of FM - I guess I think I'm ready to move on from FM12 and give FM21 a go. 

Or at least whatever the next version of the game is if they decide to forego 21 with Covid19 issues etc.

[Smurf]

13 hours ago, JordanMillward_1 said:

 

@Neil Brock Not sure if you  need to change the paragraph around Ched Evans to alleged. He had a retrial and was found not guilty and had his conviction quashed. 

[Prej]

I'll buy it so I have a good reason visit this forum, mainly the bugs section.

[dcaine100]

On 14/05/2020 at 23:32, glenjamin said:

No I will not be buying it having bought every edition previously. 

Throughout the entire lockdown I didn't play FM for one minute. That gave me my answer. FM20 is the worst installment yet and I'm not putting more time and money into a game that frustrates me more than excites me. I'm also sick of buying it year after year and finding there's too many bugs and have to wait until the final patch before I can even begin to enjoy it. 

This is exactly how I feel, ive been a passionate player for the last 15 years but theres just no fun anymore just frustration and confusion, its so repetitive and soulless compared to fm17 which was fun to play, when watching a 3D match I can tell whats about to happen before it happens.

[Tummyowl]

As per usual since '97 I will probably pick a copy up. Sure, I have problems with releases, overall I enjoy Football Manager.

[JordanMilly]

4 hours ago, Smurf said:

@Neil Brock Not sure if you  need to change the paragraph around Ched Evans to alleged. He had a retrial and was found not guilty and had his conviction quashed. 

It has it as an asterisk underneath it.

*Bear in mind this conviction has now been overturned and Ched Evans was ruled to have not committed this crime. 

[Tony Wright 747]

5 hours ago, dcaine100 said:

This is exactly how I feel, ive been a passionate player for the last 15 years but theres just no fun anymore just frustration and confusion, its so repetitive and soulless compared to fm17 which was fun to play, when watching a 3D match I can tell whats about to happen before it happens.

I would fully agree with this, But I may well buy it now.  The ME still sucks, but I feel like giving some money to SI to fight that which cannot be discussed

[Nonlondoner]

I'm buying it. I do every year. I believe in what they're doing think it's one of the best value games on the market. 

Some years are better than others but that's life for you. 21 will be as successful as ever, as the few dissenting voices on these forums tend to amplify an apparent growing constituency of anti-FMers. Which really isn't reflected in the sales figures. 
A bit like the election. Labour won by a country-mile on Social Media. But back in real life.......... 

[Danchinaski]

12 minutes ago, Nonlondoner said:

A bit like the election. Labour won by a country-mile on Social Media. But back in real life.......... 

Not at all sure what equivalence you're attempting to draw here, given more than ten million people voted Labour, social media output regarding this was hardly a skewering of reality. Further, using the current UK government as an example of "people bought it so it must be Good Actually" severely diminishes, not enhances, this argument. 

[Heywood JaBlowme]

I get more & more disheartened with each release.

But FM is the only way I spend my 'free time' while I'm on my PC so, yeah, I will most likely be making an early purchase.

And in light of the current dispute regarding a certain club that we cannot discuss, I'm will to throw my support toward SI even more. 

[Tangerine_Army]

with the absolute shambles the ME is its a massive no from me.

 

[jwccfc1987]

I probably will but only because it will have Cov in the Championship for the first time since FM12 and save me a season or two in getting to the top flight. The tedium of missing incredible sitters and hitting the post 5 times a game while conceding to a hoof over the top, issues both well documented for this ME, does turn me off though.

[Stevo32]

For the first time in 20 years I will be buying on the release date, can't wait for the new game, FM20 has been amazing.

[Deisler26]

I'll buy it.

I've played less of FM20 than any other in the last few years and this is because, in a staggering reversal of most people's opinions, I've loved the ME this year (apart from the set pieces) and disliked the new Club Vision/Culture/Pathway to the First Team ideas. Great concepts, but badly executed, IMO

[latrell]

i will not be buying till 6 months after the release, give all the skin makers and extra league files makers and kit makers time to do there work, the game to start of with is naked and unplayable for me.   

[enigmatic]

3 hours ago, Deisler26 said:

I'll buy it.

I've played less of FM20 than any other in the last few years and this is because, in a staggering reversal of most people's opinions, I've loved the ME this year (apart from the set pieces) and disliked the new Club Vision/Culture/Pathway to the First Team ideas. Great concepts, but badly executed, IMO

As one of the people who also likes the ME (post-patch anyway), I'm a bit surprised these concepts were even noticeable, though I guess it does depend on whether you have strong reasons to want to play at a club with a really annoyingly-implemented vision. But yeah, should be something they fix the rough edges on.

Edited August 14, 2020 by enigmatic

[duesouth]

On 14/05/2020 at 09:13, Kingstontom88 said:

Will see how the demo performs and await feedback on ME here - though this is liable to change patch by patch.

This is what puts me off buying the game until the last patch is released.  For the most part, I actually enjoyed the pre-release beta ME of FM20 - but unfortunately that just wasn't the case with the other versions and I went back to FM19.  Like many here, I would imagine, I've played FM a lot during lockdown, so I feel like FM21 would be nice for something different - but I will wait for a demo and see if I enjoy the ME before deciding.  I'm not worried about any new features this year - as I think FM21 was really smooth - the ME is everything for me.

[Malicious Penguin]

Yes. 

I've bought this and it's predecessor for 25 years +. Given the current circumstances, and the fact that SI are still striving to create FM21 for us, in the midst of all this, the least I can do is pre-order the game, discount or not. 

I always buy FM, and sure, it has flaws each year - but what game that's released annually doesn't? For this year in particular, it goes beyond the quality of the game for me.

 

[Matt_Ray]

I really think the franchise could benefit from SI taking a year out from doing a new release and instead making sure that the current release is as good as it can be.  There are still so many little bugs that get carried over from version to version --like auto-sizing columns not working properly, ongoing since FM16 or so-- and the game would be so much less frustrating if they could squash all those bugs properly before they worry about adding new features.  Like the new skin we get every year - save yourselves some time, SI, and don't bother with it!  Everyone just uses community skins anyway 

I've been playing a retro db (1995/96 season) on FM19 alongside my current career on FM20 and, honestly, there is not a single FM20 feature I even notice the absence of.  In fact, there's a few things in FM19 that I miss - being able to propose new club philosophies, and the staff vacancies info being on the contract offer screen so that you don't have to flick back to the main Staff page to remind yourself how many U23 and U18 Sports Scientists you need to hire.  FM20 is unarguably a better game than FM19.  But it's an improvement of degrees and it really doesn't deserve to be called a new game when the changes are so slight and the bugs are all still there.

FM20 is the closest I've come to not pre-ordering the game since they started doing pre-ordering in the first place.  As it is, I left it until literally the day before the beta started and even then I was largely swayed by it being on offer.  I have bought every CM/FM title since CM 97/98 and the latest versions are increasingly feeling less like "new" games and just slightly updated versions of the same game.  Like with a MMORPG where they release an expansion pack that adds a new area and improves a few quality-of-life features in the game?  That's FM now - it's not a new game each year, it's a DLC expansion pack that's packaged and priced as a new game, forcing you to do a fresh install and making all your existing saves obsolete. 

 

Back to the original question - will I be buying FM21?  Honestly, I don't know.  I love the game but I'm tired of being fobbed off with "new" FMs that have so little in the way of meaningful improvements on the previous title in the series.  It feels to me that SI are of the opinion that they have made the game as good as they dare and are now content to just polish the shiny bits while ignoring the rough parts - there's been no real innovation in years, and the game is stagnating.  Remember when they added B Teams?  Youth intake?  A 3D match engine?  Board interaction?   Individual training assignments?  That was innovation.  If SI can bring back the excitement of genuinely new features I'll be there.  If they instead give us a NEW INTERFACE (in eye-bleed colours) and NEW MEDIA INTERACTIONS (that don't change a thing) and NEW GOALKEEPER DIVING ANIMATIONS (because that's what everyone's been asking for, yeah?) then I'll probably give it a pass this year.  Maybe come back for FM22 and see if I can notice any differences.  

[Hootieleece]

I would buy if I have money to pay for it...but by October, November or later, I might not.

I have found all of the FM's I have gotten enjoyable. (FM14 onwards) In fact they have become my most played games.

If you think SI is bad with offering a "new" game every year. You haven't played and paid for Games and DLC from Paradox Interactive.

[enigmatic]

2 hours ago, Matt_Ray said:

I really think the franchise could benefit from SI taking a year out from doing a new release and instead making sure that the current release is as good as it can be.  There are still so many little bugs that get carried over from version to version --like auto-sizing columns not working properly, ongoing since FM16 or so-- and the game would be so much less frustrating if they could squash all those bugs properly before they worry about adding new features. 

How on earth is halving their budget and not having many people actually playing the game to find the bugs going to help with that?

[dunk105]

No. The match engine is terrible.

[dunk105]

On 14/05/2020 at 14:41, Guest said:

Probably yes, but I will wait and read first bugs forum as long as feedback forum.

Maybe March 2021?

Last decision to abandoned the game, is somewhat negative (for me).

This. Its not the first time the ME has gotten worse with the final patch and then just left.

Utterly shocked that SI still do this and do not learn from previous mistakes.

[Matt_Ray]

3 hours ago, enigmatic said:

How on earth is halving their budget and not having many people actually playing the game to find the bugs going to help with that?

What? xD

[Onyewu]

Always !!

[enigmatic]

1 minute ago, Matt_Ray said:

What? xD

If you honestly find it difficult to understand that skipping a release results in SI having half as much sales revenue over that two year period and a big gap in user feedback, I'm not really sure why you're offering SI advice on their release cycle...

[Matt_Ray]

12 minutes ago, enigmatic said:

If you honestly find it difficult to understand that skipping a release results in SI having half as much sales revenue over that two year period and a big gap in user feedback, I'm not really sure why you're offering SI advice on their release cycle...

Speaking as someone who works for a company that's seen a 50% drop in income but no change to budget over the past 6 months, I can confirm that while long-term budgets are of course tied to income it's rare that an annual budget directly correlates with income 1:1.  Yes, having no release for a year would of course hit income.  Without knowing SI's financial state and what sort of cash balance they have I cannot say whether this would doable, feasible but tough, or outright financial suicide for them.  But, funnily enough, I wasn't trying to, either.  I said that -in my opinion- the game could be improved by an extra year of perfecting the current release before devoping the new one.  This was not me giving them advice on their release cycle, this was me giving my thoughts on what might improve the game.  I did not realise I should also have included detailed financial modelling, project paths, and a feasibility analysis with my post.  Now I know better, thanks.  I'm also not providing concrete and detailed plans for new features I would like to see or who SI should hire in order to get these features implemented.  Feel free to chastise me for that, as well.

Onto the second part of your needlessly confrontational reply, how would the lack of a new release result in "not having many people actually playing the game"?  Do you believe that if SI said "Really sorry but there's not going to be a new FM this year" people would immediately stop playing the current version?  Of course they would not.

 

tl;dr - Dude, it was my thoughts on the game and what I would like to see; it's ok to not agree, it's not ok to be a jerk about it.  Please dial back the aggression and snittery.

Edited August 19, 2020 by Matt_Ray

[themadsheep2001]

To clarify, SI have previously stated that not only would a year out not be financially viable, but it would directly negatively impact improving the game. It's a non starter

[Matt_Ray]

1 minute ago, themadsheep2001 said:

To clarify, SI have previously stated that not only would a year out not be financially viable, but it would directly negatively impact improving the game. It's a non starter

That's fair then.  Cheers

[enigmatic]

5 minutes ago, Matt_Ray said:

Onto the second part of your needlessly confrontational reply, how would the lack of a new release result in "not having many people actually playing the game"?  Do you believe that if SI said "Really sorry but there's not going to be a new FM this year" people would immediately stop playing the current version?  Of course they would not.

No. But if the 'current version' is two year old code which the company has decided needs such a radical overhaul they've decided to sacrifice a year's revenue to do so, more will have changed than if the 'current version' is twelve month old code and therefore bug reports will be less useful.

May I humbly point out that if you expect mutually respectful exchanges of views on the internet, it helps not to initiate confrontation by responding with 'What? xD'

 

 

[Matt_Ray]

25 minutes ago, dREIS said:

Without fail. Always have and always will. It's cheaper than a night out in Slough or a takeaway for my family of five. For well over 1000 hours worth of entertainment. 

"Cheaper than a night out in Slough" would make a great tag line!

[DiscoDave]

This was my first purchase. CM93 on the Amiga 500.

I'll carry on till 2023 for my 30th anniversary. Maybe call it a day, maybe not