russell9 Posted October 27, 2020 Share Posted October 27, 2020 After reading the Phil Jones ✕ Paris Saint-Germain story in reddit I decided to do a similar experiment. I am gonna take it to the next level by playing 2 goalkeeper as striker in a flat 442 formation. The selected goalkeepers are Ben Winterbottom and Shamal George. Both comes from Liverpool's U23 squad. 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
russell9 Posted October 27, 2020 Author Share Posted October 27, 2020 Formation and starting line up 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
russell9 Posted October 27, 2020 Author Share Posted October 27, 2020 First friendly match. Ben got his first goal although it's a penalty. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
russell9 Posted October 27, 2020 Author Share Posted October 27, 2020 Second friendly, Ben score again Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
russell9 Posted October 27, 2020 Author Share Posted October 27, 2020 Third friendly, Shamal score this time and it's not a penalty Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
russell9 Posted October 27, 2020 Author Share Posted October 27, 2020 Fourth friendly, no goals for both of them Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
russell9 Posted October 27, 2020 Author Share Posted October 27, 2020 Fifth friendly, Ben score 2 goals Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
russell9 Posted October 27, 2020 Author Share Posted October 27, 2020 Here comes the real test, community shield. None of them score but both rating 6.8 and a 2-0 comfortable win againts Man City. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
russell9 Posted October 27, 2020 Author Share Posted October 27, 2020 First league match, Ben score his first league goals Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
russell9 Posted October 27, 2020 Author Share Posted October 27, 2020 Next, Euro Super Cup. Ben to the rescue Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
russell9 Posted October 27, 2020 Author Share Posted October 27, 2020 Second league match, bored draw Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
russell9 Posted October 27, 2020 Author Share Posted October 27, 2020 Third, hard away match against Man City. I am a bit surprised the team still managed to win Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
russell9 Posted October 27, 2020 Author Share Posted October 27, 2020 Fourth, Ben score 2 goals Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
russell9 Posted October 27, 2020 Author Share Posted October 27, 2020 Fifth, Ben score again and finally Shamal got his first league goal Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
russell9 Posted October 27, 2020 Author Share Posted October 27, 2020 Next, Champions league. Looks like Ben and Shamal has form a deadly partnership now Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Viking Posted October 27, 2020 Share Posted October 27, 2020 Well... I'm 52 and could'nt run 5 meters straight to save my life, and I would score a goal per game with those players behind me. But on a serious note, and just out of curiosity: whats Bens versitality? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
russell9 Posted October 27, 2020 Author Share Posted October 27, 2020 Just now, Viking said: Well... I'm 52 and could'nt run 5 meters straight to save my life, and I would score a goal per game with those players behind me. But on a serious note, and just out of curiosity: whats Bens versitality? Not sure about that, I don't have in-game editor to view his hidden attributes. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
russell9 Posted October 27, 2020 Author Share Posted October 27, 2020 Sixth, Ben score 2 goals Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
HUNT3R Posted October 27, 2020 Share Posted October 27, 2020 Interesting experiment. I'd be interested to see, when the experiment is done, the matches played and goals divided into open play vs penalties, just so we have a nice overview. Imo, the penalty goals will skew the stats and not provide the 'real' picture. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
santy001 Posted October 27, 2020 Share Posted October 27, 2020 It'll probably do more to discredit the Phil Jones outcome than anything else, by proving that if you create good enough chances for a player, they will score goals. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
russell9 Posted October 27, 2020 Author Share Posted October 27, 2020 4 minutes ago, HUNT3R said: Interesting experiment. I'd be interested to see, when the experiment is done, the matches played and goals divided into open play vs penalties, just so we have a nice overview. Imo, the penalty goals will skew the stats and not provide the 'real' picture. Indeed, from what I see here half of Ben's goals come from penalty. But for Shamal all his goals comes from open play. One interesting point though, so far Ben never miss a penalty yet and there is no penalty taking attribute for GK so I wonder which attribute the game used to make decision. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
russell9 Posted October 27, 2020 Author Share Posted October 27, 2020 League cup, Ben and Shamal score gain. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
russell9 Posted October 27, 2020 Author Share Posted October 27, 2020 Seventh, Ben got one. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
russell9 Posted October 27, 2020 Author Share Posted October 27, 2020 Champions league 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
russell9 Posted October 27, 2020 Author Share Posted October 27, 2020 Just now, kingking said: I would of put him on AML OR AMR because it requires more skill such as speed and dribbling your way past opposition him assisting and scoring from AML or AMR is more impressive than being a poacher That's an even more extreme and bad ass test Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
russell9 Posted October 27, 2020 Author Share Posted October 27, 2020 League eighth, bored draw. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
kingking Posted October 27, 2020 Share Posted October 27, 2020 5 minutes ago, russell9 said: That's an even more extreme and bad ass test good thread & enjoy your experiment . excited to see how he does lol Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
russell9 Posted October 27, 2020 Author Share Posted October 27, 2020 League 9, looks like goal drought coming. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
russell9 Posted October 27, 2020 Author Share Posted October 27, 2020 League 10, yay one for Ben. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
russell9 Posted October 27, 2020 Author Share Posted October 27, 2020 (edited) I am gonna stop for now and to be continue later when I'm free. Here's the league and player stats after 10 matches. Ben Winterbottom, let's see if he can win the golden boot Edited October 27, 2020 by russell9 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
steam just is Posted October 27, 2020 Share Posted October 27, 2020 Hmmmmmmmmmmmm. Bit concerning. Someone from Everton should try it with Pickford, gotta be safer for your team when he’s at other end of pitch. but the story behind this isn’t great. Suggests that bigger formulas are deciding match results which can’t be inhibited by ridiculous scenarios. Liverpool wouldn’t win anything with 2 keepers up front. Obviously!!!!! 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Tiger666 Posted October 27, 2020 Popular Post Share Posted October 27, 2020 (edited) Makes me wonder why I bother spending so much time agonising over a single attribute point when you can win the league with two keepers up front. Edited October 27, 2020 by Tiger666 9 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
russell9 Posted October 27, 2020 Author Share Posted October 27, 2020 Whoah look at the ratings 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post samuelawachie Posted October 27, 2020 Popular Post Share Posted October 27, 2020 (edited) I gotta say that this is really sad to see that something so basic and flawed could game the ME like this (that is supposed to be robust and sound) I just find it really sad. If this was done in say, FM12, I wouldn't be complaining too much. Very sad. And I really don't want to hear from the people that claim that "Unrealistic inputs produce unrealistic output". Artificial Intelligence in the 21st century has gone way past the age of GIGO. Things should be more sophisticated now Edited October 27, 2020 by samuelawachie 13 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kingstontom88 Posted October 27, 2020 Share Posted October 27, 2020 (edited) That is actually pretty alarming. ...and pass completions both above 80% Edited October 27, 2020 by Kingstontom88 6 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Mcfc1894 Posted October 27, 2020 Popular Post Share Posted October 27, 2020 FM 20 might be the worst Match Engine in FM history 16 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
kingking Posted October 27, 2020 Share Posted October 27, 2020 (edited) Wow this is embarrassing as this is such an unrealistic result from the ME. thank you OP for pointing out ME Flaws.. how can Ben Winterbottom have passing accuracy above 80% in premier league? Edited October 27, 2020 by kingking 6 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luizinho Posted October 27, 2020 Share Posted October 27, 2020 I wish I never read this thread... 5 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
alian62 Posted October 27, 2020 Share Posted October 27, 2020 Its your tactics ( always the reply for a fix ) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zemahh Posted October 27, 2020 Share Posted October 27, 2020 1 hour ago, Viking said: Well... I'm 52 and could'nt run 5 meters straight to save my life, and I would score a goal per game with those players behind me. To be fair, you also have to take into account that you would be playing against Premier League defences. If Phil Jones scoring for fun in Ligue 1 can be somewhat shrugged off due to the league not being very competitive, this is a tad more concerning. We're talking first season, one-star current ability goalkeepers and a 4-4-2, which in theory, should require strikers to be somewhat decent, since they have no close support in attacking midfielders. And yet they're topping the charts and have the team sitting on top? 6 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
steam just is Posted October 27, 2020 Share Posted October 27, 2020 Not sure why this has been moved to another backwater forum. It’s a direct challenge to the whole structure Of FM. would appreciate an answer from SI before we buy 1 million copies of 2021! Next test, field an entire team of keepers. 5 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kingstontom88 Posted October 27, 2020 Share Posted October 27, 2020 6 minutes ago, Luizinho said: I wish I never read this thread... Been moved away from general discussion into the challenges forum... many will miss this now I would think. Hmmm 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
themadsheep2001 Posted October 27, 2020 Share Posted October 27, 2020 1 minute ago, Kingstontom88 said: Been moved away from general discussion into the challenges forum... many will miss this now I would think. Hmmm 1) it is an experiment 2) There an automatic link to it. No need for such comments, thanks Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Viking Posted October 27, 2020 Share Posted October 27, 2020 What kind of goals does he score? Screamers from 60 yards would be worrying, while tap-ins after someone else dribbled the goalkeeper and the defense to the stands would be more acceptable. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiger666 Posted October 27, 2020 Share Posted October 27, 2020 Be nice to get an answer from SI in here. How is an U23 reserve goalkeeper outscoring Aguero? Just how exactly is this attribute system supposed to work? 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mcfc1894 Posted October 27, 2020 Share Posted October 27, 2020 5 minutes ago, themadsheep2001 said: 1) it is an experiment 2) There an automatic link to it. No need for such comments, thanks It should be we're people will see it so It can be fixed not hidden in the background on a page nobody already checks 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
themadsheep2001 Posted October 27, 2020 Share Posted October 27, 2020 Just now, Mcfc1894 said: It should be we're people will see it so It can be fixed not hidden in the background on a page nobody already checks If he's looked for it to be investigated then it would need the save game and pkms for the bugs forum. As it is, it's merely an experimental thread 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kingstontom88 Posted October 27, 2020 Share Posted October 27, 2020 8 minutes ago, themadsheep2001 said: 1) it is an experiment 2) There an automatic link to it. No need for such comments, thanks Fair enough, but this doesn't look good. It would be helpful for the OP to share any PIs that have been set for the ST position, if at all. Would also be interested to see if they had any assists and whether the goals were scored from FKs or corners/open play. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
themadsheep2001 Posted October 27, 2020 Share Posted October 27, 2020 Just now, Kingstontom88 said: Fair enough, but this doesn't look good. It would be helpful for the OP to share any PIs that have been set for the ST position, if at all. Would also be interested to see if they had any assists and whether the goals were scored from FKs or corners/open play. The save game and pkms would be the most helpful things tbh Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Zemahh Posted October 27, 2020 Popular Post Share Posted October 27, 2020 1 minute ago, Viking said: What kind of goals does he score? Screamers from 60 yards would be worrying, while tap-ins after someone else dribbled the goalkeeper and the defense to the stands would be more acceptable. Again, even if they're scoring tap-ins, those are tap-ins against Premier League defences. Besides that, in theory, one should still need sufficient A) mental and physical attributes to find and position himself in empty spaces where he can be passed to and B) technical attributes to accept passes and finish chances. There's world class strikers that struggle to adapt to the most competitive league in the world, yet here we have a 17 y/o reserve goalie outscoring Aguero. In what world is this even remotely realistic? 18 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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