Football Manager 2021 Official Feedback Thread

[GOODNAME]

Sadly the game is too easy.. I have managed to win la liga with Valencia just  in the 2nd season with 97 points 

Only 3 loses.

Pretty sad cuz the ME is  really great

But opposition don't attack me that much.. shame 

[iAlwaysWin]

1 hour ago, GOODNAME said:

Sadly the game is too easy.. I have managed to win la liga with Valencia just  in the 2nd season with 97 points 

Only 3 loses.

Pretty sad cuz the ME is  really great

But opposition don't attack me that much.. shame 

Never understood comments like this, are you suggesting it should be impossible to win the league with Valencia in the second season with 97 points?

Edited December 31, 2020 by iAlwaysWin

[IrrelevantLion]

Loving the variety of goals this year

[Domoboy23]

19 minutes ago, IrrelevantLion said:

Loving the variety of goals this year

Great strike. Bet his rating is up to 6.2 after that!

[johnnyyakuza78]

Intro

I wanted to start this post by saying that I've been playing Football Manager since it was Championship Manager, so basically when I was a wee lad. I've bought pretty much every second edition of the game and in many ways it has completely changed my life. Firstly it transformed my interest in football, from being something I didn't get or like, to being almost an obesssion. 

Secondly, and just as importantly, it changed my career in some ways. My job these days is often designing User Interfaces in websites and applications, looking at not only the look and feel, but the usability of those interfaces. Often these days I end up designing dashboards for apps and Football Manager has become an engrained influence in my work . I've always appreciated how well the game manages to lay out incredibily detailed blocks of information, multiple layers of stats and screens, creating a maze of options and tools for a player to use. The game itself is incredibly complex and yet does a good job most of the time of allowing each player to adapt to the interface in their own way and use the bits and pieces that they want.  I generally think the UI in most games is appalling, as someone who plays a lot of Paradox games, I can tell you that stuff makes me cry, but FM is a rare UI success.

On top of that, there is a lot of crossover in the way the latest editions of FM have been designed and in how a lot of web applications are laid out. A lot of the visual language and concepts carry through and it's the use of that joined up thinking that allows people to pick up the game so quickly and use new features.

However. I've just started playing FM21 and I think this is the first time since buying the game that I've been truly put off by some of the Interface design choices that have been implemented. A few of the newest features appear to approach design from a new perspective and I personally don't find it all that successful, and so I thought I'd lay some of them out here. Maybe this is an opportunity for others to put their thoughts down too.


A coherent layout

Football manager has changed over the years but the recent versions have taken cues from online applications we all use. It has a set of basic rules that we generally tend to already understand before even coming to the game.  The standard layout for the game is pretty similar to a website in some ways. It has a global naviation running along the top of the screen. and on the left hand side it has a functional navigation system giving us access to the main features of the game. This is a common pattern in applications and dashboards. 

Also quite key is that it has one large button or Call to Action up the top right, which is basically a 'Next' button that progresses the game. This is standard across much of the game, we know to look top right to progress and we have a basic understanding of where to go to find things.

There are some small problems I've had with the email view, but they are not killing it for me. For instance actions associated with an email or message are on the bottom right of that email. I don't like that I need to scan so far around the page to find what I need to do, and those buttons are not especially clear to see. This is an older issue that I can kind of forgive, but its a problem that becomes more apparent in the latest version.

Excel Spreadsheet vs Fifa vs Real life
 

One of the criticisms of the FM has been that it looks boring, it looks like an Excel Spreadsheet. Surely the game would be better were it to be more visual, to move away from plain numbers on a page and more towards a living breathing view of the world that represents what real life looks like. There are problems with that perspective, in that one of the successes of FM has been its ability to communicate huge amounts of information to a player in a simple and clear way. One of the best ways of doing this has been to go for a very much more minimalist style. 

Somewhere this year, that appears to have gone out the window and there is a move to make the game more friendly. Now there are background images that represent what a manager might be doing or what room they might be in. It's a noble idea, but I think so far a bit of a failure. Let's look at one example. Meetings.



At first look, this seems great. I can see that I'm in a board room and.. well actually after that, it doesn't really make a lot of sense to me. It has taken some getting used to but that is because the rules that the interface has taught us in the rest of the game have been thrown out and we are told to view screens in a completely different way. 

In Interface design we often hear that users tend to read in an E or V pattern, going from left to right, then back down to left again as they scroll down the page. That is kind of how we take in information as western users. It's one of the reasons the main functional nav is on the left and the global nav is at the top in the main game. But look at the above image and the rules are different. Now the interface is almost a map of the room. You and your chairman are at the bottom , the player is at the top and there are options in the middle. It makes sense in some ways but it's totally against everything we've already learnt about the game. 

This is why it's so difficult to understand. On top of that there are other issues:
 

• Calls to action are not the highlight. The over use of purple means I don't know where to click. In this screenshot the players speech is the prominent block. Where am I supposed to click?  There is little to no feedback as to what your next step is. All buttons look the same.
• This is going to come up a lot, but the use of space here is not great. The layout means that there is a top of space on the page and elements feel like they are floating in the middle of nowhere for no reason. The layout doesn't tell me where to look, there are no cues to help guide me. There is information on every corner of the screen, and not a lot of reason or continuity behind their placement.

 

If I take another screen that has also had a revamp, as far as I'm aware, it's the mid highlight screen in matches

The decision here has clearly been to stop hiding information behind screens, so that mid-highlight the player can get a good overview of the key stats of the game. I think that is a good call, I often didn't click into analysis screens because it became a hassle. But the solution comes with a number of problems. 

• Again, where am I supposed to look. The left to right visual pattern doesn't exist any more, now every edge of the screen has relevant information. Previously in older versions The top of the screen would be where I would look to interact with the match, now its the bottom (where else in the game do I interact with the bottom of the screen??)  I interact everywhere.
• The layout again is using space in a quite strange way. The layout isn't totally responsive as far as I can see and my decent size monitor is spreading things out, but look at where those panels are. I ask myself the question, what is the key info I need to see during a match. For me it's usually match stats and my own teams performance. Other stats are nice to haves but less useful. But no matter what I do I can't make those elements bigger, they are mixed in with all the other panels and there is info overload. Plus it all becomes so small I have to squint to see it.  
• Why is the Dugout section so prominent when it rarely gives me useful info,  why is it just floating there with so much space around it?  Wouldn't it be better to put the match stats in the centre and have dugout on the right?
• The video controls and ability to bring up the match stats mid game are kind of hidden and there are some strange design decisions. The score is hidden over the top left, quite small, the play button is top right, smaller than normal. Add in the fact that 'skip replay'' sits over on the left barely visable and I'm seriously confused by these choices. 
  
   

This is a real important screen, but it feels like it's primary function has been lost in an effort to get everything off there. It becomes very difficult to find the information you need at a glance which should be what it does best.


Lastly team talks

This screen again is the victim of trying to add flavour to a page but really killing it's usability. In older versions this was really just a list of player names, you made a choice and you saw the reaction. It wasn't very exciting but it was effective. Now we are placed inside the dressing room. Yet again the layout is very strange, unlike anything in the rest of FM. Instead of mimicking a web layout, it's trying to mimick real life. Now I am in the centre of the room and the players are all around me. I can see how this could, but in reality all it means is that I have to move my head around to the screen to try and understand what I am seeing, it makes reading reactions take ten times longer than normal. Also I realised that there are interactive elements at the bottom of this screen, which I don't think I noticed when I took these screenshots, because the game hasn't trained me to look for them. 



Summary

I didn't want to make this post too long or exhaustive, I feel like I could write forever on this stuff, but I felt compelled to say something because I'm finding some of these design choices quite odd, and maybe SI are trying to take the game in a new direction, to attract new users. The problem I'm seeing is that obviously FM is a series of modules that fit together, but they need to have design language underpinning them to make transitioning from one module to the next as smooth as possible. These newest modules tend to break all the previously known rules, and while the expectation is that we will probably all get used to it and learn how new features work, that isn't a feature of good design to force users to do that. 

My own feeling is that FM works because it is designed to communicate complex information in a simple way, it creates a version of reality without trying to replicate it exactly. It looks and acts like a standard dashboard but that is actually a strength not a weakness. 

I have purposefully not mentioned things like the new icon choices for condition etc, and I think they are fine and part of a consious decision to make things more realisitic. I get that. But there is a balance to be had between realism and utility. 

But overall I think FM21 would be improved if it followed it's own rules. Most importantly it needs to tell me where I need to look and it needs to be consistent in that. If I generally have to look at the top left of a screen to interact, then stick to that, don't start using the bottom, middle etc to add functionality. If the game isn't trying to replicate reality then don't do that. Don't layout interfaces as if they were a map or a top down view, that isn't how the rest of the app works. Stay consistent.

I don't want to be too critical of the designers here, I do the same job and I know how these things happen, and I will never have all the information as to have choices are made. As I've said before, I think FM has some of the best UI work going in places, the deisgners have done a bang up job at times. Thats why I find this so surprising. 

Edited December 31, 2020 by johnnyyakuza78

[Bakiano]

At least they don't have to travel twice to us..

Edited December 31, 2020 by Bakiano

[ImDaWeasel]

Worst time of year to have such game breaking bugs like they have now. Which is a massive shame to the physics of the ME. Hope they all get fixed pronto.

[Showerman]

6 hours ago, GOODNAME said:

Sadly the game is too easy.. I have managed to win la liga with Valencia just  in the 2nd season with 97 points 

Only 3 loses.

Pretty sad cuz the ME is  really great

But opposition don't attack me that much.. shame 

I managed to win La Liga 1st season 94pts with Real Sociedad and too made a post about how easy it was but then 2nd season with CL football I only managed 79pts and Real got 100pts and Atletico 95pts, currently in the 3rd season and I’m doing great with 67pts in 26 games its just that Real have 73pts  

Barca are bang average though, they STILL have Koeman who has 1 cup and 1 europa league in 3 seasons and surely will be sacked unless he wins the CL and will probably bring in a much better coach.

Think there is too much emphasis on momentum its too easy to go on long winning or undefeated streak but at the same time if you hit a bad patch it could be difficult to get out of it (which happened to me 2nd season) and can really impact your season.

[RVP32]

I've played a full season and it's painful to see how the match engine with exception of finishing variety is just the FM20 ME re-used. Except now even worse since player ratings are absolutely messed up. Completely dominate an opponent, score 5 behind them. Highest rated player? 7.5.

I'm happy the game was gifted to me. If I had paid for what is essentially a reskin of FM20 but with some glitter sprinkeled on, I would have felt absolutely scammed.

[GOODNAME]

8 minutes ago, RVP32 said:

I've played a full season and it's painful to see how the match engine with exception of finishing variety is just the FM20 ME re-used. Except now even worse since player ratings are absolutely messed up. Completely dominate an opponent, score 5 behind them. Highest rated player? 7.5.

I'm happy the game was gifted to me. If I had paid for what is essentially a reskin of FM20 but with some glitter sprinkeled on, I would have felt absolutely scammed.

How the hell you think this ME is like/worse than FM 20 ME?

This ME is amazing, the only 3 things i will imporve are :

1. AI managers not attacking enogh

2. Goals from throw ins

3. Player ratings 

[Leon_fogo]

9 hours ago, ajt said:

VAR/offsides/etc needs to be randomised definitely, anytime I see the referee blow his whistle I know exactly what is going to happen 

I am finding the variants very good, sometimes it's a penalty, sometimes it's a free kick, sometimes it's nothing ...

The game is very good this version, ME is wonderful! Attackers score goals face to face, kicks are conscious, movements more fluid ...
I'm just thinking that when the judge goes to see the VAR he makes a wrong gesture when he scores or cancels the penalty. And I still observe some skating and goalkeepers taking the ball over the bottom line (unreal).

[Murtiniiii]

Hello everyone. Happy new year.

I have one question regarding shooting. How many shots are you guys seeing on average per game? I'm currently seeing in total around 15 shots per match. I'll just go through my last 10 games (bear in mind this is both teams)

18, 5, 29, 14, 18, 13, 16, 16, 20, 7

It might just be me but bar the 29 one this seems very low. Anyone else feel the same in their games?
 

[RVP32]

3 hours ago, GOODNAME said:

How the hell you think this ME is like/worse than FM 20 ME?

This ME is amazing, the only 3 things i will imporve are :

1. AI managers not attacking enogh

2. Goals from throw ins

3. Player ratings 

Because of the issues I mentioned in my previous post. Add to that the player ratings and there's not much difference for me, personally. Varied and intelligent finishing edges in this year's favour but the player ratings problem really dampers my enjoyment. 

 

Goals from throw-ins against I haven't really noticed. It's more so over the top balls in behind the defence out of nowhere for me that seems to be a very recurring thing. (Could also be my own tactic but I see my own players doing the same so I assume it's a general ME thing.)

[freddieos]

25 minutes ago, Murtiniiii said:

Hello everyone. Happy new year.

I have one question regarding shooting. How many shots are you guys seeing on average per game? I'm currently seeing in total around 15 shots per match. I'll just go through my last 10 games (bear in mind this is both teams)

18, 5, 29, 14, 18, 13, 16, 16, 20, 7

It might just be me but bar the 29 one this seems very low. Anyone else feel the same in their games?
 

that's pretty comparable to a good team in real life, those are good numbers. You can also compare it to the other teams in the league in the weekly/monthly xG map for defence and attack.

[Murtiniiii]

2 minutes ago, freddieos said:

that's pretty comparable to a good team in real life, those are good numbers. You can also compare it to the other teams in the league in the weekly/monthly xG map for defence and attack.

Uerdingen lead the way with shots on goal with 15.65. We're 14th with 9.26. It's probably just my tactic. Cheers.

[Tonton_Zola]

19 hours ago, johnnyyakuza78 said:

Intro

I wanted to start this post by saying that I've been playing Football Manager since it was Championship Manager, so basically when I was a wee lad. I've bought pretty much every second edition of the game and in many ways it has completely changed my life. Firstly it transformed my interest in football, from being something I didn't get or like, to being almost an obesssion. 

Secondly, and just as importantly, it changed my career in some ways. My job these days is often designing User Interfaces in websites and applications, looking at not only the look and feel, but the usability of those interfaces. Often these days I end up designing dashboards for apps and Football Manager has become an engrained influence in my work . I've always appreciated how well the game manages to lay out incredibily detailed blocks of information, multiple layers of stats and screens, creating a maze of options and tools for a player to use. The game itself is incredibly complex and yet does a good job most of the time of allowing each player to adapt to the interface in their own way and use the bits and pieces that they want.  I generally think the UI in most games is appalling, as someone who plays a lot of Paradox games, I can tell you that stuff makes me cry, but FM is a rare UI success.

On top of that, there is a lot of crossover in the way the latest editions of FM have been designed and in how a lot of web applications are laid out. A lot of the visual language and concepts carry through and it's the use of that joined up thinking that allows people to pick up the game so quickly and use new features.

However. I've just started playing FM21 and I think this is the first time since buying the game that I've been truly put off by some of the Interface design choices that have been implemented. A few of the newest features appear to approach design from a new perspective and I personally don't find it all that successful, and so I thought I'd lay some of them out here. Maybe this is an opportunity for others to put their thoughts down too.


A coherent layout

Football manager has changed over the years but the recent versions have taken cues from online applications we all use. It has a set of basic rules that we generally tend to already understand before even coming to the game.  The standard layout for the game is pretty similar to a website in some ways. It has a global naviation running along the top of the screen. and on the left hand side it has a functional navigation system giving us access to the main features of the game. This is a common pattern in applications and dashboards. 

Also quite key is that it has one large button or Call to Action up the top right, which is basically a 'Next' button that progresses the game. This is standard across much of the game, we know to look top right to progress and we have a basic understanding of where to go to find things.

There are some small problems I've had with the email view, but they are not killing it for me. For instance actions associated with an email or message are on the bottom right of that email. I don't like that I need to scan so far around the page to find what I need to do, and those buttons are not especially clear to see. This is an older issue that I can kind of forgive, but its a problem that becomes more apparent in the latest version.

Excel Spreadsheet vs Fifa vs Real life
 

One of the criticisms of the FM has been that it looks boring, it looks like an Excel Spreadsheet. Surely the game would be better were it to be more visual, to move away from plain numbers on a page and more towards a living breathing view of the world that represents what real life looks like. There are problems with that perspective, in that one of the successes of FM has been its ability to communicate huge amounts of information to a player in a simple and clear way. One of the best ways of doing this has been to go for a very much more minimalist style. 

Somewhere this year, that appears to have gone out the window and there is a move to make the game more friendly. Now there are background images that represent what a manager might be doing or what room they might be in. It's a noble idea, but I think so far a bit of a failure. Let's look at one example. Meetings.



At first look, this seems great. I can see that I'm in a board room and.. well actually after that, it doesn't really make a lot of sense to me. It has taken some getting used to but that is because the rules that the interface has taught us in the rest of the game have been thrown out and we are told to view screens in a completely different way. 

In Interface design we often hear that users tend to read in an E or V pattern, going from left to right, then back down to left again as they scroll down the page. That is kind of how we take in information as western users. It's one of the reasons the main functional nav is on the left and the global nav is at the top in the main game. But look at the above image and the rules are different. Now the interface is almost a map of the room. You and your chairman are at the bottom , the player is at the top and there are options in the middle. It makes sense in some ways but it's totally against everything we've already learnt about the game. 

This is why it's so difficult to understand. On top of that there are other issues:
 

• Calls to action are not the highlight. The over use of purple means I don't know where to click. In this screenshot the players speech is the prominent block. Where am I supposed to click?  There is little to no feedback as to what your next step is. All buttons look the same.
• This is going to come up a lot, but the use of space here is not great. The layout means that there is a top of space on the page and elements feel like they are floating in the middle of nowhere for no reason. The layout doesn't tell me where to look, there are no cues to help guide me. There is information on every corner of the screen, and not a lot of reason or continuity behind their placement.

 

If I take another screen that has also had a revamp, as far as I'm aware, it's the mid highlight screen in matches

The decision here has clearly been to stop hiding information behind screens, so that mid-highlight the player can get a good overview of the key stats of the game. I think that is a good call, I often didn't click into analysis screens because it became a hassle. But the solution comes with a number of problems. 

• Again, where am I supposed to look. The left to right visual pattern doesn't exist any more, now every edge of the screen has relevant information. Previously in older versions The top of the screen would be where I would look to interact with the match, now its the bottom (where else in the game do I interact with the bottom of the screen??)  I interact everywhere.
• The layout again is using space in a quite strange way. The layout isn't totally responsive as far as I can see and my decent size monitor is spreading things out, but look at where those panels are. I ask myself the question, what is the key info I need to see during a match. For me it's usually match stats and my own teams performance. Other stats are nice to haves but less useful. But no matter what I do I can't make those elements bigger, they are mixed in with all the other panels and there is info overload. Plus it all becomes so small I have to squint to see it.  
• Why is the Dugout section so prominent when it rarely gives me useful info,  why is it just floating there with so much space around it?  Wouldn't it be better to put the match stats in the centre and have dugout on the right?
• The video controls and ability to bring up the match stats mid game are kind of hidden and there are some strange design decisions. The score is hidden over the top left, quite small, the play button is top right, smaller than normal. Add in the fact that 'skip replay'' sits over on the left barely visable and I'm seriously confused by these choices. 
  
   

This is a real important screen, but it feels like it's primary function has been lost in an effort to get everything off there. It becomes very difficult to find the information you need at a glance which should be what it does best.


Lastly team talks

This screen again is the victim of trying to add flavour to a page but really killing it's usability. In older versions this was really just a list of player names, you made a choice and you saw the reaction. It wasn't very exciting but it was effective. Now we are placed inside the dressing room. Yet again the layout is very strange, unlike anything in the rest of FM. Instead of mimicking a web layout, it's trying to mimick real life. Now I am in the centre of the room and the players are all around me. I can see how this could, but in reality all it means is that I have to move my head around to the screen to try and understand what I am seeing, it makes reading reactions take ten times longer than normal. Also I realised that there are interactive elements at the bottom of this screen, which I don't think I noticed when I took these screenshots, because the game hasn't trained me to look for them. 



Summary

I didn't want to make this post too long or exhaustive, I feel like I could write forever on this stuff, but I felt compelled to say something because I'm finding some of these design choices quite odd, and maybe SI are trying to take the game in a new direction, to attract new users. The problem I'm seeing is that obviously FM is a series of modules that fit together, but they need to have design language underpinning them to make transitioning from one module to the next as smooth as possible. These newest modules tend to break all the previously known rules, and while the expectation is that we will probably all get used to it and learn how new features work, that isn't a feature of good design to force users to do that. 

My own feeling is that FM works because it is designed to communicate complex information in a simple way, it creates a version of reality without trying to replicate it exactly. It looks and acts like a standard dashboard but that is actually a strength not a weakness. 

I have purposefully not mentioned things like the new icon choices for condition etc, and I think they are fine and part of a consious decision to make things more realisitic. I get that. But there is a balance to be had between realism and utility. 

But overall I think FM21 would be improved if it followed it's own rules. Most importantly it needs to tell me where I need to look and it needs to be consistent in that. If I generally have to look at the top left of a screen to interact, then stick to that, don't start using the bottom, middle etc to add functionality. If the game isn't trying to replicate reality then don't do that. Don't layout interfaces as if they were a map or a top down view, that isn't how the rest of the app works. Stay consistent.

I don't want to be too critical of the designers here, I do the same job and I know how these things happen, and I will never have all the information as to have choices are made. As I've said before, I think FM has some of the best UI work going in places, the deisgners have done a bang up job at times. Thats why I find this so surprising. 

Excellent post.

 

There is also something here around “minimalism” (I.e not over stuffing every screen with as much information as you can!) and - dare I say it - even the connected quality of beauty/elegance.

Looking back at early Championship Managers, it feels like - somewhere along the road - we lost this sense of elegance/economy/beauty.

Too many screens today feel like ‘car boot sales’ of every imaginable data set, different font sizes, type sets, type orientations all over the place. This feels cluttered and decidedly un-modern somehow.

Good data visualisation, like some aspects of good modern design, is as much about what you choose to leave out as it what you choose to include.

And - at risk of sounding like a poor man’s Steve Jobs (guilty) - why shouldn’t FM aspire for its user interface to be ‘beautiful’...?

 

Check the vintage champ screenshot below. I’d argue that - from a design perspective - we’ve actually gone significant backwards? 

[Tyburn]

There are a multitude of skins that can help this situation ...

[mikcheck]

12 horas atrás, freddieos disse:

that's pretty comparable to a good team in real life, those are good numbers. You can also compare it to the other teams in the league in the weekly/monthly xG map for defence and attack.

Sorry but where can I see that map? I should really start to pay attention to all those statistics, because I barely do and I think it can be interesting to know some things.

[afailed10]

16 horas atrás, GOODNAME disse:

How the hell you think this ME is like/worse than FM 20 ME?

This ME is amazing, the only 3 things i will imporve are :

1. AI managers not attacking enogh

2. Goals from throw ins

3. Player ratings 

For me FM20 was the worst ME of modern versions of the game, followed by FM19 and.. Fm21. I recommend you all installing FM18 and trying a couple matches with a strong team but then with a low league team. It's so refreshing to see the effect of attributes and the pleasant well designed UI. 

[freddieos]

It gets emailed to you weekly/monthly, but you can also find the xG comparison charts in Team Report > Analyst Report > then click on Scoring or Conceding.

Edited January 1, 2021 by freddieos

[damjanovski]

Here are my remarks mostly for the match engine after playing the game for some time now:

First time shoots and passes - too many first time shoots from my players and most of them blocked! Players do not try to create space for shoots they just shoot. This is true even for players like Messi. Also, I see too many first time passes in the final third. Players will pass always instead of trying to create space. This create feeling like watching pinball.

[shaunwwfc]

I havent played this game properly since breaking up on the 22nd. I have gave the game a good run up until 15mins ago when I gave up.

The interface is honestly not worth even getting upset about, it is that bad. Matchday experience is horrible.

The ME is the one that I am really most surprised by. Mainly because it seems to be so loved. I was really looking forward to playing with it. Yet all I have no matter what instructions I use, is CBs who punt into thin air, wing backs who run to the byline.. and thats it.. and forward players who dont really do much. They do not look to create any kind of space. I am yet to see through balls either from my AMs.

I hope 21.3 can bring some hope but I dont see it. I think I will go back to 18.

[johnnyyakuza78]

6 hours ago, Tonton_Zola said:

Excellent post.

 

There is also something here around “minimalism” (I.e not over stuffing every screen with as much information as you can!) and - dare I say it - even the connected quality of beauty/elegance.

Looking back at early Championship Managers, it feels like - somewhere along the road - we lost this sense of elegance/economy/beauty.

Too many screens today feel like ‘car boot sales’ of every imaginable data set, different font sizes, type sets, type orientations all over the place. This feels cluttered and decidedly un-modern somehow.

Good data visualisation, like some aspects of good modern design, is as much about what you choose to leave out as it what you choose to include.

And - at risk of sounding like a poor man’s Steve Jobs (guilty) - why shouldn’t FM aspire for its user interface to be ‘beautiful’...?

 

Check the vintage champ screenshot below. I’d argue that - from a design perspective - we’ve actually gone significant backwards? 

 

Thanks.

Well I don't want to do the designers down too much, I think in some ways they have gone the minimalist route with a lot of the interface. It is still mostly a bunch of panels with stats and text with very little 'graphics' outside of the matches. 

One of the issues is that every year they add new features or try and tweak what was already there. As a long time player I think I use less than 30% of what is in the game, and stick to the way I used to play it. 

Some of the newest features don't really seem to account for how different users might play the game or focus in on what is important to them, I feel like there is an element of 'forced coercion' about the latest edition, as in "You should play the game in this way", rather than giving me the option to play it how I wish. 

As a designer I know that there is a constant tension between getting a feature out and making it perfect, and balancing business and user needs. So I can't complain too much.

[Novem9]

This is a small but annoying bug that player which I bought in 11 June counted for prev season.

In FM20 it was happened too, but automatically moved for new season after season's update

[Halofon]

For me this edition is 9/10. I need to say that this is the first edition where I did not switch to 2d classic match after few games. I have played two seasons and still enjoying it. ME looks acceptable this year for me, which is a huge step forward.

Also thanks for the revamp of player interactions, team talks and press conferences. Yes, the options and principle is still the same, but with the changed layout it feels more realistic and I don§t feel the urge to skip conferences. All of this leads to almost real feeling when going to actual match. I was a bit confused with dugout view during the match, but now I feel like it makes more sense than before.

This edition feels like step forward for me, altough no big change or addition was announced like e.g. dynamics. I am still a bit confused about why I keep getting so many scout reports in scouting centre even tho I am in czech 2nd division, but maybe somebody can guide me on how to make this more reasonable?

[Nick_CB]

My CB´s insist on trying long balls even if I ask them to play short, this is the only thing that annoys me in this FM

[Mojby]

On 18/12/2020 at 22:47, GOODNAME said:

SAME

Same - and I miss over half my penalties even though I have haaland taking them.

[Mojby]

On 25/12/2020 at 13:51, Zoolok42 said:

I've seen it happen, but I do agree it is very rare.

Happens a lot on my game - just happened this second against West Ham!

[shaunwwfc]

On 30/12/2020 at 18:56, Domoboy23 said:

Honestly, everythings just the same since the update. Wingers tucked into the box, not taking people on, ping pong passing outside the box, wide balls to the edges and crosses blocked into the box and when they do get in there 9/10 shots blocked. Players shooting in weird animation ways which wasn't the case before the last update. No cutting through balls or slow patient build up outside the box. Just frantic ping pong resulting in blocked shots. No strikers taking people in just being stationary, no movement for crosses, ball always going behind or to them and shooting very oddly. Not running onto anything of whipped balls into the box. And I'm 8th! It feels like I'm watching the same game again and again. The higher the level you play at the more ridiculous it is. A non league game actually seems semi-realistic. League football and elite level? Nah

Please take me back to the previous ME

Couldnt agree more.

Share some of these concerns and more in my thread below.

 

[Domoboy23]

8 hours ago, damjanovski said:

Here are my remarks mostly for the match engine after playing the game for some time now:

First time shoots and passes - too many first time shoots from my players and most of them blocked! Players do not try to create space for shoots they just shoot. This is true even for players like Messi. Also, I see too many first time passes in the final third. Players will pass always instead of trying to create space. This create feeling like watching pinball.

Agree with strikers just hitting the ball first time it comes to them in the box, no trying to work some room. Either with the ball or without, for example, checking back the run to the centre circle.
Also all the blocks always seem to be in the defenses favour. Very rare to see a block end up defelct into the back of the net

[KlaaZ]

This must be a record, and I'm not sure if I should log it as a bug. I just played an international game against Greece where after ET, they had committed a wopping 42 fouls without receiving a yellow. On the other end, we also fouled an opposing player 19 times, with no cards given.

[FrazT]

4 hours ago, KlaaZ said:

This must be a record, and I'm not sure if I should log it as a bug. I just played an international game against Greece where after ET, they had committed a wopping 42 fouls without receiving a yellow. On the other end, we also fouled an opposing player 19 times, with no cards given.

Wow- with that number of fouls, a number of your players must have committed 5 or 6 fouls, so no card is quite hard to understand.  I had a recent game where the team committed 4 fouls and got 3 yellow cards, which is just as hard to understand.

[freddieos]

Had a hard time at first understanding the feedback on fullbacks/wingbacks getting low ratings, crosses constantly getting blocked and not taking people on enough as my fullbacks/wingbacks at Atalanta were awesome, averaging between 7-7.20 a season. Now at Leipzig (same save) they are all of a sudden useless and getting 6.2-6.5's only. I play same formation and basically the same instructions. Weird.

[IrishRovers]

It feels. slightly too easy to make a killing in the transfer market this time round, although I'm not totally sure if this a bad thing - it might signal more aggressive and pre-planned squad-building from the AI, which would be a good thing I guess. Maybe it's something to do with Brexit? For example, I just sold a young English centre-back for £13 million - I bought him for nothing from TNS, loaned him out to Doncaster in League One for a year (average rating 6.56), he's never played a game for me (Oxford in the Championship). He's got high potential, it might happen in real life very occasionally, but I dunno - feels a bit too easy. I also sold Chris Mochrie (who I signed for £90k) to West Ham for £10 million - albeit he had a good season in the Championship, but again, it feels a bit too easy. 

[freddieos]

there is way too much money in the game @IrishRovers, especially outside top-5 leagues. In my current save in 2028, Celtic are selling players for 255m euros a season, Benfica buys players for 70m euros regularly and I just took over Leipzig that somehow had 800m in the bank! 

[damjanovski]

Altough this might be off topic I played FM 2012 and I am really suprised how much better it is in many aspects. First about the match engine: The game does not look like pinball - players do not make stupid decisions like shooting instead of making space for that before. Crossing looks far more natural. Players do score from corners. 

Outside the match engine: Scouting is many times better. Scouts actualy find far more players and they actualy are good for my team. In 2021 the scouting is the worse part of the game. Players can keep their phisical attributes much longer. For example Javier Zanetti who is 37 has 14 speed and 13 acceleration - which as a someone who looked hime play is correct for that time. If he was in 2021 his phisical attributes would have dropped significantly. 

I must admit that the game just made many steps back, and only a few forward over the years.

[anagain]

Is there a known bug with league scheduling still?

I got my fixtures for my second season and was given games against the 4 relegated teams within the first 5 fixtures. I saw someone else mention this somewhere.

I have to play these teams at some point so it's not a huge deal. It's just started my season badly. 

I am just curious whether I am going to face this in a third season.

[Federico]

1 ora fa, damjanovski ha scritto:

Altough this might be off topic I played FM 2012 and I am really suprised how much better it is in many aspects. First about the match engine: The game does not look like pinball - players do not make stupid decisions like shooting instead of making space for that before. Crossing looks far more natural. Players do score from corners. 

Outside the match engine: Scouting is many times better. Scouts actualy find far more players and they actualy are good for my team. In 2021 the scouting is the worse part of the game. Players can keep their phisical attributes much longer. For example Javier Zanetti who is 37 has 14 speed and 13 acceleration - which as a someone who looked hime play is correct for that time. If he was in 2021 his phisical attributes would have dropped significantly. 

I must admit that the game just made many steps back, and only a few forward over the years.

Yeah I remember having my centerbacks being the top-scorers of the league, due to the infamous "near post corner" bug.

Nothing bad with your post, anyone is entitled to enjoy the game he wants, and I myself sometimes enjoy some old savegames at FM07, but surely FM12 cannot be remembered for its superb and realistic ME (collision avoidance is just another easy example to add).

[Domoboy23]

Wingers when they receive a pass in the box either hit a defender with the shot or straight into the keepers arms. In 3 seasons on this current save, I've only eve seen wingers score from crosses to feet, and headers. Never seen a player receive a pass in the box and fizz a shot into the goal

[Novem9]

Is there a hotkey for this menu? (hide and show)

[damjanovski]

1 hour ago, Federico said:

Yeah I remember having my centerbacks being the top-scorers of the league, due to the infamous "near post corner" bug.

Nothing bad with your post, anyone is entitled to enjoy the game he wants, and I myself sometimes enjoy some old savegames at FM07, but surely FM12 cannot be remembered for its superb and realistic ME (collision avoidance is just another easy example to add).

Do not get me wrong. I am just saying that the things that i mentioned are far better in a game that is 9 years old.

[Fmfan00]

Hopefully SI can fix MLS in next update

[tiotom92]

4 hours ago, damjanovski said:

Altough this might be off topic I played FM 2012 and I am really suprised how much better it is in many aspects. First about the match engine: The game does not look like pinball - players do not make stupid decisions like shooting instead of making space for that before. Crossing looks far more natural. Players do score from corners. 

Outside the match engine: Scouting is many times better. Scouts actualy find far more players and they actualy are good for my team. In 2021 the scouting is the worse part of the game. Players can keep their phisical attributes much longer. For example Javier Zanetti who is 37 has 14 speed and 13 acceleration - which as a someone who looked hime play is correct for that time. If he was in 2021 his phisical attributes would have dropped significantly. 

I must admit that the game just made many steps back, and only a few forward over the years.

I score loads of goals from corners on FM21.

[glenjamin]

What is the story with not being able to change who takes the penalty when a player is on a hattrick? I'm 2-1 up and award a penalty. My MC who has scored both goals opts to take the penalty whilst despite changing kick takers to my other player with 16 for penalties, the MC still takes the penalty and misses! 8 minutes later they get a penalty and score. This has been an issue for years and still not fixed. 

[CM]

1 minute ago, glenjamin said:

What is the story with not being able to change who takes the penalty when a player is on a hattrick? I'm 2-1 up and award a penalty. My MC who has scored both goals opts to take the penalty whilst despite changing kick takers to my other player with 16 for penalties, the MC still takes the penalty and misses! 8 minutes later they get a penalty and score. This has been an issue for years and still not fixed. 

Go tactics and then set pieces and untick the box at the bottom of the page where it says allow a player with two goals to take the penalty. 

[glenjamin]

29 minutes ago, CM said:

Go tactics and then set pieces and untick the box at the bottom of the page where it says allow a player with two goals to take the penalty. 

Where does it say that exactly? Is it on matchday or regular set piece screen?

[CM]

14 minutes ago, glenjamin said:

Where does it say that exactly? Is it on matchday or regular set piece screen?

No, matchday screen. Tactics tab on the left of screen, where you set your tactics, set piece takers, etc. Then go to penalties and you'll see that at the bottom of the page. 

Edited January 2, 2021 by CM

[rodau]

Real football

 

[rodau]

By the way, Rangers won without a single shoot on the target. It was a real Football Manager game 

[ArmataSalata]

A few notes from me as I've just rolled over 200 hours on FM 21...long and meandering post coming up! There's more bad than good below, as it happens, which wasn't my intention at all. I think FM 21 is the best edition for at least 5 years, and the improvements to the ME in particular more than make up for the game's shortcomings. However, this is a feedback thread so it's more worthwhile feeding back on the stuff that needs improvement!

The good

The headline feature for most players is the Match Engine, and this is definitely the thing I personally care most about. The good news is that in in FM 21 the ME is genuinely very good, for the most part. They seem to have eradicated some of the daft issues that plagued FM20, or at least made them less common place. You can make tactical changes and see them have an affect (good or bad) before your eyes. Central playmaking is possible again, and they've achieved this without "nerfing" some other type of attacking play. 

The other big thing that persuaded me to buy FM 21 was the addition of XG. One of my main complaints with FM 20 was that it was too difficult to figure out why your tactic was working, or not working, because the analysis tools the game gave you were inadequate, and the ME was so full of stupid stuff that spotting the actual mistake the human player made was close to impossible. Expected goals go a long way to solving the former problem, and the ME improvements have largely sorted out the latter. From my perspective anyway, SI deserve a lot of credit for that.

XG within the game seems to be well implemented. I can't comment too much on the model, but it does seem that the values it reports largely make sense. I would like to see XG surfaced in more places (e.g. the Report > Stats page, and Player Comparisons to name 2), but I guess the timeframes were too tight to get it in everywhere. Some of the reporting around it from your analysts is a little off though. At one stage during the season in my current save, my opposition had scored 12 actual goals compared to c. 6 XG in the last five games, yet my analyst report told me that my opponents' shooting had been "average". Stuff like that breaks the illusion of reality a little, but overall I'm pretty happy with XG and it helps me enjoy the game more.

Finally, the optimisation for less powerful machines is big bonus. Even on my 7-year-old MBP, FM runs pretty quickly with multiple leagues loaded, saving takes a few seconds, and since the most recent patch the 3d ME has been really sharp and smooth. For the last three or four editions, FM has been running pretty choppy for me, so much so that I'd largely given up on watching matches in 3d.

The bad

My main gripe with FM 21, is for a game that has added an analysis tool like XG as a headline feature, a lot of the rest of analysis tools and statistics are very badly broken, and none of the stuff that has been broken for ages has been fixed. I suppose the COVID situation meant some difficult choices had to be made, but really, things like the pass maps and match analysis views just look terrible, like they weren't ever tested. Likewise, having a load of statistics that are supposedly available but not reported anymore (like Key Tackles) looks so shoddy. Others have raised these in the bugs forum, but these issues really aren't good enough. For me the biggest concern is that many of these problems arose post-beta, in one of the updates. Post-release regressions have been a theme for the past few years in FM (e.g. last Christmas the game was unplayable because one-on-ones were almost impossible to score), and while I can still enjoy the game this time around, I have sympathy for others who find bugs like this too hard ignore, and stop playing in frustration.

Recent bugs aside, analysis features that were broken and reported in FM 20 remain so. The "Match Analysis" feature is so dumb that I can't believe it hasn't been fixed by now – in real life, an analyst who suggested Work Ball Into Box, and then Shoot On Sight in the next breath, would be put on a performance improvement program.

Secondly, I do object to the decisions taken around the match UI. @johnnyyakuza78 has done a much better job than I could explaining the general shortcomings that FM suffers from UI-wise, but the specific decisions around hiding information during matches from users in the name of realism, however well-intentioned, are completely wrong imo. Increasing realism for a game like FM should be an additive process – adding in new features to make the experience more life-like. The match UI changes are subtractive, taking away features (like in-match analysis) that were once available, a much more divisive design decision. The best way to do it would have been to hide the in-match analysis and stats in a sub menu somewhere, rather than completely disabling it until half-time and full-time. Then the sense of realism is there for those who want it, and the features remain available for those who want them.

The foregrounding of in-match advice from your assistant isn't a bad idea in theory, but the quality of advice given is poor enough that it doesn't deserve its own special column in centre of the screen.

Finally, the set piece creator badly needs an overhaul. I can see why that hasn't happened yet, as it's probably a big time sink. However, if SI are striving for realism in FM, then this is one area where the current game falls quite a long way short. I'm sure this is on the slate for an upcoming edition, so I won't go on about it here too much!