Baptista_8 Posted June 23, 2021 Share Posted June 23, 2021 1 minute ago, themadsheep2001 said: Doesn't Saka have 3 MOTMĀ inĀ 6 caps though? He has at least two after yesterday. I'd start them both. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
themadsheep2001 Posted June 23, 2021 Share Posted June 23, 2021 1 minute ago, Baptista_8 said: Saka did look more of a threat but Grealish can transform the way we play because he is so strong in possession. We didn't get him on the ball enough last night. It's crazy to me to write Grealish off after 25 mins VS an ultra defensive Scotland, when our whole team was off it, and afterĀ onlyĀ 65 minutes last night, in which he produced an assist, and made our attack look very fluid early on, before being starved of the ball second half. I mean like I said, the guy has several MOTMs in only a few caps, and you're saying he hasn't done enough in two games, for most of which the team wasn't in a position to get the best out of him. The exact same things can be said of Foden when he's given the ball, and Mount.Ā At the end of the day Saka, was by far the biggest threat, which given the trend of how England are playing, makes a much better case for him starting than Grealish has, can't keep changing the argument to suit picking Grealish Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
themadsheep2001 Posted June 23, 2021 Share Posted June 23, 2021 1 minute ago, Barry Cartman said: Funny, I thought he was going to be demanding the ball, transforming games and creating unlimited amount of chances. Its as if he's got the same problem as any other player like Foden and Mount in this side, the way the team is set up doesn't suit the way those players play at club levelĀ Exactly this. We can argue its a failing of Southgate, but until that changes, we should pick players that it suits Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob1981 Posted June 23, 2021 Share Posted June 23, 2021 (edited) 6 minutes ago, bigdunk said: That a couple of half decent dribblesĀ per game distracts people from the constant falling over and giving the ball away?Ā Yeah plus theĀ classic ITV move of naming someone MOTMĀ depending on what debateĀ gets them most clicks afterwards. Itās worth daysĀ of āSHOULD GREALISH START?ā content instead of giving it to an established playerĀ who has played just as well. I mean they have literally been doing this for years. Outside of internet arguments and computer games MOTM doesnāt mean all that much. Edited June 23, 2021 by Rob1981 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigdunk Posted June 23, 2021 Share Posted June 23, 2021 4 minutes ago, Baptista_8 said: I know you're trolling but he's a master at retaining possession. Trolling aside, MOTM is a really bad guide at how well players have played, especially if it's sponsor or fan picked. It always seems to goĀ to the player who's done the one most flashy thing in the game (scored the best goal, did the best dribble etc), not the player who's actually played the best.Ā Especially with someone like Grealish, who fans have beenĀ clamouring to play - he was always going to get MOTM if he did anything entertaining in the game.Ā Plus what Rob said. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barry Cartman Posted June 23, 2021 Share Posted June 23, 2021 I also like how Foden did the exact same run against Scotland as Saka for the goal, but the narrative, especially from Ian Wright afterwards, was no one else in the side can do that Ā Same with Sterling really, Grealish shifts past a player and gets in a cross, no other play can do that, but Sterling walks the ball into the Scottish box, in the end arguablyĀ is fouled for a penalty, and he has TikTok videos made about him Ā 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baptista_8 Posted June 23, 2021 Share Posted June 23, 2021 9 minutes ago, bigdunk said: Trolling aside, MOTM is a really bad guide at how well players have played, especially if it's sponsor or fan picked. It always seems to goĀ to the player who's done the one most flashy thing in the game (scored the best goal, did the best dribble etc), not the player who's actually played the best.Ā Especially with someone like Grealish, who fans have beenĀ clamouring to play - he was always going to get MOTM if he did anything entertaining in the game.Ā Plus what Rob said. So would you say Grealish wasn't MOTM in the matches he was given the award for then? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barry Cartman Posted June 23, 2021 Share Posted June 23, 2021 https://www.telegraph.co.uk/euro-2021/2021/06/23/raheem-sterling-has-become-englands-important-player-taken/ Article here from Carragher about the importanceĀ of SterlingĀ I admit I completely fell into this trap before the tournament, probably more to do with still being bitter about the CL finalĀ Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
arenaross Posted June 23, 2021 Share Posted June 23, 2021 The bigger issue is why is Southgate making all these wonderful attacking players we're blessed with at the moment look so average. Regardless of who your poison is, the running theme is that none of them are anywhere close to replicating their club form and that's a big issue for us.Ā 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob1981 Posted June 23, 2021 Share Posted June 23, 2021 (edited) Half the time ITV have decided what they want to say post match before the game has been played. Regardless of what has happened, forceĀ a preagreed ādebateā based on what is most topical and the business need for clicks, views etc.Ā Pougatch is the absolute worst at this because his interviewing style is basically setting out his own opinion in a way that makes it very hard to disagree. Whatever anyone thinks, just bringingĀ it back to whatever he wants to say. Lineker:Ā āEnglandās midfield looked better tonight, Alan?ā versus Pougatch: āEnglandās midfield looking better tonight and Grealish in particular was a constant threat with his tricks and after that performance itās going to be hard for Southgate to leave him out isnāt it surely Gary?ā Or even when someone has said something positive about, say, Sterling and tries to have another conversation: āI mean Sterling was goodĀ tonightĀ but what about Grealish,Ā Roy? Thatās the question that must still be on Garethās mind!ā Jake Humphrey is pretty bad at this on BT as well. Edited June 23, 2021 by Rob1981 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pukey Posted June 23, 2021 Author Share Posted June 23, 2021 3 minutes ago, Barry Cartman said: https://www.telegraph.co.uk/euro-2021/2021/06/23/raheem-sterling-has-become-englands-important-player-taken/ Article here from Carragher about the importanceĀ of SterlingĀ I admit I completely fell into this trap before the tournament, probably more to do with still being bitter about the CL finalĀ People focus too much on stuff he does wrong, like if he plays a poor pass or smacks a cross out of play, instead of looking at what else he's doing right and how he's stretching the opposition. Not to say his performances have been perfect, but to me it's really clear why he keeps getting picked. 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigdunk Posted June 23, 2021 Share Posted June 23, 2021 4 minutes ago, Baptista_8 said: So would you say Grealish wasn't MOTM in the matches he was given the award for then? Without digging through every game he's played I can't say for all of them, but there have definitely been England games where he's been given MOTM and I thought other players played better. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barry Cartman Posted June 23, 2021 Share Posted June 23, 2021 Lee Dixon as well was like sitting next to an idiot in the pub moaning about the game. The highlight for me was him saying why is Pickford not just playing a quick pass out wide there, moments before he picks out a perfect chip into Grealish who turns with it and creates an attackĀ 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
themadsheep2001 Posted June 23, 2021 Share Posted June 23, 2021 5 minutes ago, Barry Cartman said: https://www.telegraph.co.uk/euro-2021/2021/06/23/raheem-sterling-has-become-englands-important-player-taken/ Article here from Carragher about the importanceĀ of SterlingĀ I admit I completely fell into this trap before the tournament, probably more to do with still being bitter about the CL finalĀ Ā 1 minute ago, Pukey said: People focus too much on stuff he does wrong, like if he plays a poor pass or smacks a cross out of play, instead of looking at what else he's doing right and how he's stretching the opposition. Not to say his performances have been perfect, but to me it's really clear why he keeps getting picked. I actually think he's being a little let down by a lack of movement from Kane as well, he's not exactly dragging people away with his runs, it makes what Sterling is doing all the more vital. Finishing has been a bit wayward but his movement is terrifyingly good 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob1981 Posted June 23, 2021 Share Posted June 23, 2021 Does anyone honestly think Gareth will remember who was ITVās MOTM in any given game? Ā Literally means nothing. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barry Cartman Posted June 23, 2021 Share Posted June 23, 2021 Is ITV MOTM the new highest attendance?Ā Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baptista_8 Posted June 23, 2021 Share Posted June 23, 2021 9 minutes ago, Rob1981 said: Does anyone honestly think Gareth will remember who was ITVās MOTM in any given game? Ā Literally means nothing. I mean I was obviously using that to highlight a point. Really difficult to have any sort of debate with you when you refuse to look at anything beyond surface level and just come back with constant sarcasm. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
craigcwwe Posted June 23, 2021 Share Posted June 23, 2021 3 hours ago, Barry Cartman said: 1 thing we do know from yesterday, is that Sancho is done in this tournament, i'd be shocked if he even made the bench next gameĀ Yep. After he didn't start yesterday it was pretty obvious that he's just going to be a bit part player this tournament.Ā Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barry Cartman Posted June 23, 2021 Share Posted June 23, 2021 4 minutes ago, Baptista_8 said: I mean I was obviously using that to highlight a point. Really difficult to have any sort of debate with you when you refuse to look at anything beyond surface level and just come back with constant sarcasm. There is no debate with you though Ā Grealish is the best player in the world and he should be starting ahead of every single player, if anyone says otherwise you start arguing and bringing up silly stats. You quote everyone in here who suggests anything other than Grealish playingĀ You've used the excuse in here that Grealish wasn't great yesterday because he wasn't given the ball enough, whereas when that happens to any other player, you're demanding Grealish plays instead of them because he will somehow magically demand the ballĀ 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baptista_8 Posted June 23, 2021 Share Posted June 23, 2021 Just now, Barry Cartman said: There is no debate with you though Ā Grealish is the best player in the world and he should be starting ahead of every single player, if anyone says otherwise you start arguing and bringing up silly stats. You quote everyone in here who suggests anything other than Grealish playingĀ Of course there's debate, literally everything I post gets laughed at because a lot of you don't rate him that highly. Silly stats? A lot of them aren't actually that silly and say quite a lot,Ā and I posted them what, once? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob1981 Posted June 23, 2021 Share Posted June 23, 2021 1 minute ago, Baptista_8 said: I mean I was obviously using that to highlight a point. Really difficult to have any sort of debate with you when you refuse to look at anything beyond surface level and just come back with constant sarcasm. Itās not really sarcasm is it, justĀ pointing out thatĀ ITV have a very obviousĀ commercial agenda when they choose a MOTM or structure theirĀ post match discussion.Ā Itās never anĀ objective viewĀ about who has played the best or the worst. Not everything is about Grealish ffs. Over the years theyĀ have forced these conversations about whether to drop Sterling, Rooney, Gerrard. Whether to start Sancho, Foden etc. Doesn'tĀ matter how theyāve played, they know what will get people engaging most with their content afterwards.Ā This is why people like Pougatch and Adrian Chiles and Jake Humphrey and (whisper it)Ā even the great Des Lynam look great on BBC and then they go to a commercial channel and people go off them. Nothing to do with the presenter and everything to do with the editorial decisions. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_jagster Posted June 23, 2021 Share Posted June 23, 2021 47 minutes ago, Baptista_8 said: Saka did look more of a threat but Grealish can transform the way we play because he is so strong in possession. We didn't get him on the ball enough last night. It's crazy to me to write Grealish off after 25 mins VS an ultra defensive Scotland, when our whole team was off it, and afterĀ onlyĀ 65 minutes last night, in which he produced an assist, and made our attack look very fluid early on, before being starved of the ball second half. I mean like I said, the guy has several MOTMs in only a few caps, and you're saying he hasn't done enough in two games, for most of which the team wasn't in a position to get the best out of him. No-one is? They are saying he hasn't done much/any more than the other options, and the same excuses apply for them too. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
skybluedave Posted June 23, 2021 Share Posted June 23, 2021 Can't wait till this tournament is overĀ Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob1981 Posted June 23, 2021 Share Posted June 23, 2021 Christ.Ā Who is writing him off ? Ā i donāt think anyone has ever said he shouldnāt be in and around the team, just that he hasnāt done enough to be on a pedestal above all these other players who have already been to a World Cup or played in the Champions League. Got another six days of this Ā Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
oche balboa Posted June 23, 2021 Share Posted June 23, 2021 Its coming home. We dont concede Nothing to fear from any nation Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smallen Posted June 23, 2021 Share Posted June 23, 2021 33 minutes ago, oche balboa said: Its coming home. We dont concede Nothing to fear from any nation Ultimately this is true. Winning the EUROs without conceding a goal is all part ofĀ John Stonesā redemption arc. DestinyĀ has already been written. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bigwig Posted June 23, 2021 Share Posted June 23, 2021 How many outfield players could have a genuine complaint ifĀ they were dropped for the next match? Ā There are some who have done a job but I would say there are very few who have nailed down their spot.Ā Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
afced7 Posted June 23, 2021 Share Posted June 23, 2021 7 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Citizen Sandman Posted June 23, 2021 Share Posted June 23, 2021 I think Shaw has been England's best player at times. His corners were **** but he actually passes forward with intent. Even vs Scotland imo 4 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bootador Posted June 23, 2021 Share Posted June 23, 2021 3 hours ago, Rob1981 said: Christ.Ā Who is writing him off ? Ā i donāt think anyone has ever said he shouldnāt be in and around the team, just that he hasnāt done enough to be on a pedestal above all these other players who have already been to a World Cup or played in the Champions League. Got another six days of this Ā City need to get their act together and get the deal done so we can all talk about Tyrone. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Haguey Posted June 23, 2021 Share Posted June 23, 2021 Thread titleĀ Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
arenaross Posted June 23, 2021 Share Posted June 23, 2021 haha enjoying the new title. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigV Posted June 23, 2021 Share Posted June 23, 2021 MG take a bow fellaĀ Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
craigcwwe Posted June 23, 2021 Share Posted June 23, 2021 (edited) Saw the thread title and could see that there wasĀ multiple pages already and for a second I thought there'd been another long Jack Grealish discussion with a thread of it's own. Ā Edited June 23, 2021 by craigcwwe 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marc Albrighton Posted June 23, 2021 Share Posted June 23, 2021 4 hours ago, Rob1981 said: Got another six days of this Ā What do you mean only 6 more days? Is it not coming home then? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
craigcwwe Posted June 23, 2021 Share Posted June 23, 2021 1 minute ago, Marc Albrighton said: What do you mean only 6 more days? Is it not coming home then? His complete and utter lack of belief is a disgrace. Ā Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marc Albrighton Posted June 23, 2021 Share Posted June 23, 2021 2 minutes ago, craigcwwe said: His complete and utter lack of belief is a disgrace. Ā These fairweather prawn sandwich fans smh. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ajw10 Posted June 23, 2021 Share Posted June 23, 2021 6 hours ago, themadsheep2001 said: Doesn't Saka have 3 MOTMĀ inĀ 6 caps though? Yes. 3 in 3 starts.Ā Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barry Cartman Posted June 23, 2021 Share Posted June 23, 2021 7 minutes ago, ajw10 said: Yes. 3 in 3 starts.Ā Can't argue with those mathsĀ Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ajw10 Posted June 23, 2021 Share Posted June 23, 2021 4 minutes ago, Barry Cartman said: Can't argue with those mathsĀ Grealish does have 5 MotM's in 4 appearancesĀ 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob1981 Posted June 23, 2021 Share Posted June 23, 2021 Yeah look at his xMOTM.Ā Racking those up every time he is left out. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bootador Posted June 23, 2021 Share Posted June 23, 2021 Ā 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baptista_8 Posted June 23, 2021 Share Posted June 23, 2021 5 minutes ago, Bootador said: That's the Rice and Phillips not passing through the lines issue Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bootador Posted June 23, 2021 Share Posted June 23, 2021 5 minutes ago, Baptista_8 said: That's the Rice and Phillips not passing through the lines issue Worse last game though, the worst...Ā Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
skybluedave Posted June 23, 2021 Share Posted June 23, 2021 England Germany knockout football at WembleyĀ Ā Now that's a proper game. Can't wait. 4 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marc Albrighton Posted June 23, 2021 Share Posted June 23, 2021 Was always going to be the Germans wasn't it?Ā Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
skybluedave Posted June 23, 2021 Share Posted June 23, 2021 I had a weirdly specific dream pre tournament where we made the final. It involved beating Germany in 2nd round and Holland in semis. I'm starting to get a little freaked out. If next week we beat Germany on pens after a 1-1 draw Maguire goal then the dream was clearly a prophecy sent from the Football gods 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
SouthCoastRed Posted June 23, 2021 Share Posted June 23, 2021 10 minutes ago, skybluedave said: I had a weirdly specific dream pre tournament where we made the final. It involved beating Germany in 2nd round and Holland in semis. I'm starting to get a little freaked out. If next week we beat Germany on pens after a 1-1 draw Maguire goal then the dream was clearly a prophecy sent from the Football gods I hope you had a bet on it. Itās probably delusions from your night out with the jocks tho tbh Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
craigcwwe Posted June 23, 2021 Share Posted June 23, 2021 16 minutes ago, Marc Albrighton said: Was always going to be the Germans wasn't it?Ā It did have an air of inevitability about it aye.Ā It was meant to be. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
skybluedave Posted June 23, 2021 Share Posted June 23, 2021 It was way before that. Before tournament started. The only issue is we played 2 tiesĀ inbetween Germany and Holland in semis so maybe I'm dreaming of the 48 team Euros in 2042 or somethingĀ Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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