The Jack Grealish (and occasionally England) Thread: It's coming home attempt 5782570

[Baptista_8]

1 minute ago, themadsheep2001 said:

Doesn't Saka have 3 MOTM in 6 caps though?

He has at least two after yesterday. I'd start them both.

[themadsheep2001]

1 minute ago, Baptista_8 said:

Saka did look more of a threat but Grealish can transform the way we play because he is so strong in possession. We didn't get him on the ball enough last night.

It's crazy to me to write Grealish off after 25 mins VS an ultra defensive Scotland, when our whole team was off it, and after only 65 minutes last night, in which he produced an assist, and made our attack look very fluid early on, before being starved of the ball second half. I mean like I said, the guy has several MOTMs in only a few caps, and you're saying he hasn't done enough in two games, for most of which the team wasn't in a position to get the best out of him.

The exact same things can be said of Foden when he's given the ball, and Mount. 

At the end of the day Saka, was by far the biggest threat, which given the trend of how England are playing, makes a much better case for him starting than Grealish has, can't keep changing the argument to suit picking Grealish

[themadsheep2001]

1 minute ago, Barry Cartman said:

Funny, I thought he was going to be demanding the ball, transforming games and creating unlimited amount of chances. Its as if he's got the same problem as any other player like Foden and Mount in this side, the way the team is set up doesn't suit the way those players play at club level 

Exactly this. We can argue its a failing of Southgate, but until that changes, we should pick players that it suits

[Rob1981]

6 minutes ago, bigdunk said:

That a couple of half decent dribbles per game distracts people from the constant falling over and giving the ball away? 

Yeah plus the classic ITV move of naming someone MOTM depending on what debate gets them most clicks afterwards. It’s worth days of ”SHOULD GREALISH START?” content instead of giving it to an established player who has played just as well.

I mean they have literally been doing this for years. Outside of internet arguments and computer games MOTM doesn’t mean all that much.

Edited June 23, 2021 by Rob1981

[bigdunk]

4 minutes ago, Baptista_8 said:

I know you're trolling but he's a master at retaining possession.

Trolling aside, MOTM is a really bad guide at how well players have played, especially if it's sponsor or fan picked. It always seems to go to the player who's done the one most flashy thing in the game (scored the best goal, did the best dribble etc), not the player who's actually played the best.  Especially with someone like Grealish, who fans have been clamouring to play - he was always going to get MOTM if he did anything entertaining in the game.  Plus what Rob said.

[Barry Cartman]

I also like how Foden did the exact same run against Scotland as Saka for the goal, but the narrative, especially from Ian Wright afterwards, was no one else in the side can do that  

Same with Sterling really, Grealish shifts past a player and gets in a cross, no other play can do that, but Sterling walks the ball into the Scottish box, in the end arguably is fouled for a penalty, and he has TikTok videos made about him  

[Baptista_8]

9 minutes ago, bigdunk said:

Trolling aside, MOTM is a really bad guide at how well players have played, especially if it's sponsor or fan picked. It always seems to go to the player who's done the one most flashy thing in the game (scored the best goal, did the best dribble etc), not the player who's actually played the best.  Especially with someone like Grealish, who fans have been clamouring to play - he was always going to get MOTM if he did anything entertaining in the game.  Plus what Rob said.

So would you say Grealish wasn't MOTM in the matches he was given the award for then?

[Barry Cartman]

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/euro-2021/2021/06/23/raheem-sterling-has-become-englands-important-player-taken/

Article here from Carragher about the importance of Sterling 

I admit I completely fell into this trap before the tournament, probably more to do with still being bitter about the CL final 

[arenaross]

The bigger issue is why is Southgate making all these wonderful attacking players we're blessed with at the moment look so average. Regardless of who your poison is, the running theme is that none of them are anywhere close to replicating their club form and that's a big issue for us. 

[Rob1981]

Half the time ITV have decided what they want to say post match before the game has been played. Regardless of what has happened, force a preagreed “debate” based on what is most topical and the business need for clicks, views etc. 

Pougatch is the absolute worst at this because his interviewing style is basically setting out his own opinion in a way that makes it very hard to disagree. Whatever anyone thinks, just bringing it back to whatever he wants to say.

Lineker: ”England’s midfield looked better tonight, Alan?”

versus Pougatch: “England’s midfield looking better tonight and Grealish in particular was a constant threat with his tricks and after that performance it’s going to be hard for Southgate to leave him out isn’t it surely Gary?”

Or even when someone has said something positive about, say, Sterling and tries to have another conversation: “I mean Sterling was good tonight but what about Grealish, Roy? That’s the question that must still be on Gareth’s mind!”

Jake Humphrey is pretty bad at this on BT as well.

Edited June 23, 2021 by Rob1981

[Pukey]

3 minutes ago, Barry Cartman said:

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/euro-2021/2021/06/23/raheem-sterling-has-become-englands-important-player-taken/

Article here from Carragher about the importance of Sterling 

I admit I completely fell into this trap before the tournament, probably more to do with still being bitter about the CL final 

People focus too much on stuff he does wrong, like if he plays a poor pass or smacks a cross out of play, instead of looking at what else he's doing right and how he's stretching the opposition. Not to say his performances have been perfect, but to me it's really clear why he keeps getting picked.

[bigdunk]

4 minutes ago, Baptista_8 said:

So would you say Grealish wasn't MOTM in the matches he was given the award for then?

Without digging through every game he's played I can't say for all of them, but there have definitely been England games where he's been given MOTM and I thought other players played better.

[Barry Cartman]

Lee Dixon as well was like sitting next to an idiot in the pub moaning about the game. The highlight for me was him saying why is Pickford not just playing a quick pass out wide there, moments before he picks out a perfect chip into Grealish who turns with it and creates an attack 

[themadsheep2001]

5 minutes ago, Barry Cartman said:

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/euro-2021/2021/06/23/raheem-sterling-has-become-englands-important-player-taken/

Article here from Carragher about the importance of Sterling 

I admit I completely fell into this trap before the tournament, probably more to do with still being bitter about the CL final 

 

1 minute ago, Pukey said:

People focus too much on stuff he does wrong, like if he plays a poor pass or smacks a cross out of play, instead of looking at what else he's doing right and how he's stretching the opposition. Not to say his performances have been perfect, but to me it's really clear why he keeps getting picked.

I actually think he's being a little let down by a lack of movement from Kane as well, he's not exactly dragging people away with his runs, it makes what Sterling is doing all the more vital. Finishing has been a bit wayward but his movement is terrifyingly good

[Rob1981]

Does anyone honestly think Gareth will remember who was ITV’s MOTM in any given game?  Literally means nothing.

[Barry Cartman]

Is ITV MOTM the new highest attendance? 

[Baptista_8]

9 minutes ago, Rob1981 said:

Does anyone honestly think Gareth will remember who was ITV’s MOTM in any given game?  Literally means nothing.

I mean I was obviously using that to highlight a point.

Really difficult to have any sort of debate with you when you refuse to look at anything beyond surface level and just come back with constant sarcasm.

[craigcwwe]

3 hours ago, Barry Cartman said:

1 thing we do know from yesterday, is that Sancho is done in this tournament, i'd be shocked if he even made the bench next game 

Yep. After he didn't start yesterday it was pretty obvious that he's just going to be a bit part player this tournament. 

[Barry Cartman]

4 minutes ago, Baptista_8 said:

I mean I was obviously using that to highlight a point.

Really difficult to have any sort of debate with you when you refuse to look at anything beyond surface level and just come back with constant sarcasm.

There is no debate with you though  Grealish is the best player in the world and he should be starting ahead of every single player, if anyone says otherwise you start arguing and bringing up silly stats. You quote everyone in here who suggests anything other than Grealish playing 

You've used the excuse in here that Grealish wasn't great yesterday because he wasn't given the ball enough, whereas when that happens to any other player, you're demanding Grealish plays instead of them because he will somehow magically demand the ball 

[Baptista_8]

Just now, Barry Cartman said:

There is no debate with you though  Grealish is the best player in the world and he should be starting ahead of every single player, if anyone says otherwise you start arguing and bringing up silly stats. You quote everyone in here who suggests anything other than Grealish playing 

Of course there's debate, literally everything I post gets laughed at because a lot of you don't rate him that highly. Silly stats? A lot of them aren't actually that silly and say quite a lot, and I posted them what, once?

[Rob1981]

1 minute ago, Baptista_8 said:

I mean I was obviously using that to highlight a point.

Really difficult to have any sort of debate with you when you refuse to look at anything beyond surface level and just come back with constant sarcasm.

It’s not really sarcasm is it, just pointing out that ITV have a very obvious commercial agenda when they choose a MOTM or structure their post match discussion. It’s never an objective view about who has played the best or the worst.

Not everything is about Grealish ffs. Over the years they have forced these conversations about whether to drop Sterling, Rooney, Gerrard. Whether to start Sancho, Foden etc. Doesn't matter how they’ve played, they know what will get people engaging most with their content afterwards. 

This is why people like Pougatch and Adrian Chiles and Jake Humphrey and (whisper it) even the great Des Lynam look great on BBC and then they go to a commercial channel and people go off them. Nothing to do with the presenter and everything to do with the editorial decisions.

[The_jagster]

47 minutes ago, Baptista_8 said:

Saka did look more of a threat but Grealish can transform the way we play because he is so strong in possession. We didn't get him on the ball enough last night.

It's crazy to me to write Grealish off after 25 mins VS an ultra defensive Scotland, when our whole team was off it, and after only 65 minutes last night, in which he produced an assist, and made our attack look very fluid early on, before being starved of the ball second half. I mean like I said, the guy has several MOTMs in only a few caps, and you're saying he hasn't done enough in two games, for most of which the team wasn't in a position to get the best out of him.

No-one is? They are saying he hasn't done much/any more than the other options, and the same excuses apply for them too.

[skybluedave]

Can't wait till this tournament is over 

[Rob1981]

Christ. Who is writing him off ?  

i don’t think anyone has ever said he shouldn’t be in and around the team, just that he hasn’t done enough to be on a pedestal above all these other players who have already been to a World Cup or played in the Champions League.

Got another six days of this  

[oche balboa]

Its coming home. We dont concede

Nothing to fear from any nation

[Smallen]

33 minutes ago, oche balboa said:

Its coming home. We dont concede

Nothing to fear from any nation

Ultimately this is true.

Winning the EUROs without conceding a goal is all part of John Stones’ redemption arc. Destiny has already been written.

[Bigwig]

How many outfield players could have a genuine complaint if they were dropped for the next match?  There are some who have done a job but I would say there are very few who have nailed down their spot. 

[afced7]

[Citizen Sandman]

I think Shaw has been England's best player at times. His corners were **** but he actually passes forward with intent. Even vs Scotland imo

[Bootador]

3 hours ago, Rob1981 said:

Christ. Who is writing him off ?  

i don’t think anyone has ever said he shouldn’t be in and around the team, just that he hasn’t done enough to be on a pedestal above all these other players who have already been to a World Cup or played in the Champions League.

Got another six days of this  

City need to get their act together and get the deal done so we can all talk about Tyrone.

[Haguey]

Thread title 

[arenaross]

haha enjoying the new title.

[BigV]

MG take a bow fella 

[craigcwwe]

Saw the thread title and could see that there was multiple pages already and for a second I thought there'd been another long Jack Grealish discussion with a thread of it's own.  

Edited June 23, 2021 by craigcwwe

[Marc Albrighton]

4 hours ago, Rob1981 said:

Got another six days of this  

What do you mean only 6 more days? Is it not coming home then?

[craigcwwe]

1 minute ago, Marc Albrighton said:

What do you mean only 6 more days? Is it not coming home then?

His complete and utter lack of belief is a disgrace.  

[Marc Albrighton]

2 minutes ago, craigcwwe said:

His complete and utter lack of belief is a disgrace.  

These fairweather prawn sandwich fans smh.

[ajw10]

6 hours ago, themadsheep2001 said:

Doesn't Saka have 3 MOTM in 6 caps though?

Yes. 3 in 3 starts. 

[Barry Cartman]

7 minutes ago, ajw10 said:

Yes. 3 in 3 starts. 

Can't argue with those maths 

[ajw10]

4 minutes ago, Barry Cartman said:

Can't argue with those maths 

Grealish does have 5 MotM's in 4 appearances 

[Rob1981]

Yeah look at his xMOTM.  Racking those up every time he is left out.

[Bootador]

 

[Baptista_8]

5 minutes ago, Bootador said:

That's the Rice and Phillips not passing through the lines issue

[Bootador]

5 minutes ago, Baptista_8 said:

That's the Rice and Phillips not passing through the lines issue

Worse last game though, the worst... 

[skybluedave]

England Germany knockout football at Wembley  Now that's a proper game. Can't wait.

[Marc Albrighton]

Was always going to be the Germans wasn't it? 

[skybluedave]

I had a weirdly specific dream pre tournament where we made the final. It involved beating Germany in 2nd round and Holland in semis. I'm starting to get a little freaked out.

If next week we beat Germany on pens after a 1-1 draw Maguire goal then the dream was clearly a prophecy sent from the Football gods

[SouthCoastRed]

10 minutes ago, skybluedave said:

I had a weirdly specific dream pre tournament where we made the final. It involved beating Germany in 2nd round and Holland in semis. I'm starting to get a little freaked out.

If next week we beat Germany on pens after a 1-1 draw Maguire goal then the dream was clearly a prophecy sent from the Football gods

I hope you had a bet on it. It’s probably delusions from your night out with the jocks tho tbh

[craigcwwe]

16 minutes ago, Marc Albrighton said:

Was always going to be the Germans wasn't it? 

It did have an air of inevitability about it aye. 

It was meant to be.

[skybluedave]

It was way before that. Before tournament started. The only issue is we played 2 ties inbetween Germany and Holland in semis so maybe I'm dreaming of the 48 team Euros in 2042 or something