Barry Cartman Posted July 10, 2021 Share Posted July 10, 2021 1 hour ago, EnterUsernameHere said: Busquets/Pedri/Koke isn't better than Phillips/Rice/Mount? Wake up. No Pedri is 18, had a great tournament, but suddenly he's better than Mount/Grealish/Foden, and we overrate our young players too soon Busquets hasn't been the same player for years, had an OK tournament, would probably still have him ahead of Rice or Phillips Koke isn't an improvement on our midfield at all, we just play 2 holding players The idea that Spain have this superior midfield than us and that's how they controlled Italy is rubbish, they played with a false 9 and packed the midfield and Italy struggled to cope with it They had 70% of the ball against Italy and did nothing with it Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baptista_8 Posted July 10, 2021 Share Posted July 10, 2021 Did nothing with it? They created plenty of chances. It wasn't just possession for the sake of possession, a lot of it was incisive passing through the lines and possession in dangerous areas. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
aggressive minor Posted July 10, 2021 Share Posted July 10, 2021 Kane also drops into midfield a lot for England too tbf, regarding one of the earlier points. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baptista_8 Posted July 10, 2021 Share Posted July 10, 2021 2 hours ago, craigcwwe said: Not being bias but I take the England three there. Busquets is past it, Koke is a nothing player, Pedri is something special though and the best of the 6 there but on the whole, England's midfield for me. Busquets may be past his best, but both him and Rodri are better than Rice and Phillips. Koke didn't have a great tournament, but I wouldn't write him off as a nothing player. And Pedri at 18 is the best of the bunch with the most to his game. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barry Cartman Posted July 10, 2021 Share Posted July 10, 2021 5 minutes ago, Baptista_8 said: Did nothing with it? They created plenty of chances. It wasn't just possession for the sake of possession, a lot of it was incisive passing through the lines and possession in dangerous areas. They had 70% possession and had 1 more shot on target than Italy did Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pukey Posted July 10, 2021 Author Share Posted July 10, 2021 14 minutes ago, aggressive minor said: Kane also drops into midfield a lot for England too tbf, regarding one of the earlier points. This will be an important factor in the game I feel. Spain's goal was created with Morata dropping deep, if we get it right with Sterling and Saka (or Sancho or Rashford or anyone else quick) running in behind we can create chances. I think we'll see Mount pressing on Jorginho a lot to try and prevent him dictating, Rice and Phillips probably quite a bit deeper to limit spaces for the others to pass into, and try feed Kane to create from deep. He was rubbish at this in the group stages but he's proper turned it on in the knockouts now, hopefully we can create similar to the goal against Denmark. Obviously this makes it sound a lot easier than it will be 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
EnterUsernameHere Posted July 10, 2021 Share Posted July 10, 2021 So strikers missing chances means their midfield wasn’t as good? Ok then. Wasn’t just against Italy. They created a bucketload of chances in every game. 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
aggressive minor Posted July 10, 2021 Share Posted July 10, 2021 Rice and Phillips are good and I think they've played as well as they can. But England will be so much better in the centre when Bellingham matures. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
EnterUsernameHere Posted July 10, 2021 Share Posted July 10, 2021 6 minutes ago, Pukey said: This will be an important factor in the game I feel. Spain's goal was created with Morata dropping deep, if we get it right with Sterling and Saka (or Sancho or Rashford or anyone else quick) running in behind we can create chances. I think we'll see Mount pressing on Jorginho a lot to try and prevent him dictating, Rice and Phillips probably quite a bit deeper to limit spaces for the others to pass into, and try feed Kane to create from deep. He was rubbish at this in the group stages but he's proper turned it on in the knockouts now, hopefully we can create similar to the goal against Denmark. Obviously this makes it sound a lot easier than it will be Yeah I see it that way too. As I said, even though England’s midfield isn’t as good (disagree if you want), it won’t be the deciding factor of the game. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
aggressive minor Posted July 10, 2021 Share Posted July 10, 2021 Rice is one player I still can't fully get the hype about. He looks decent when I see him play, but never better. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pukey Posted July 10, 2021 Author Share Posted July 10, 2021 1 minute ago, EnterUsernameHere said: Yeah I see it that way too. As I said, even though England’s midfield isn’t as good (disagree if you want), it won’t be the deciding factor of the game. FWIW, it's not that I disagree with Italy's midfield being better. I just think some posts are being harsh on Rice and Phillips who've had really good tournaments. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
aggressive minor Posted July 10, 2021 Share Posted July 10, 2021 1 minute ago, Pukey said: FWIW, it's not that I disagree with Italy's midfield being better. I just think some posts are being harsh on Rice and Phillips who've had really good tournaments. I think they have both played well and have made a real contribution to our progress. They should be rightly praised. However, they are limited and it's an area we can improve moving forwards. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
EnterUsernameHere Posted July 10, 2021 Share Posted July 10, 2021 Just now, Pukey said: FWIW, it's not that I disagree with Italy's midfield being better. I just think some posts are being harsh on Rice and Phillips who've had really good tournaments. I don’t think Rice has personally. He’s been about par in most games, I think he could be easily replaced by someone who adds more overall than him. He’s disciplined positionally, but that’s about it. I wouldn’t drop him for the final but he’s not exactly playing like a sure fire starter post tournament in my view. He’s playing like a centre back out of position. 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
aggressive minor Posted July 10, 2021 Share Posted July 10, 2021 Or EUH said it better regarding Rice. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baptista_8 Posted July 10, 2021 Share Posted July 10, 2021 35 minutes ago, Barry Cartman said: They had 70% possession and had 1 more shot on target than Italy did I remember at least two golden chances squandered by Oyarzabal. One he failed to even get a shot off, the other one he somehow failed to get on target. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
aggressive minor Posted July 10, 2021 Share Posted July 10, 2021 2 minutes ago, aggressive minor said: I think they have both played well and have made a real contribution to our progress. They should be rightly praised. However, they are limited and it's an area we can improve moving forwards. Just to add, having a stronger passer in the area is going to improve our play significantly. Hopefully someday soon. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
themadsheep2001 Posted July 10, 2021 Share Posted July 10, 2021 Don't think the midfield comparison matters in this regard. They are doing two very different things. Italy will look to control and we will seek to disrupt and play wide and in the half spaces. 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pukey Posted July 10, 2021 Author Share Posted July 10, 2021 I'd be very interest to see Phillips as the deeper player and Bellingham in the B2B role in the next couple of years that's for sure. 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
themadsheep2001 Posted July 10, 2021 Share Posted July 10, 2021 Rice is the kind of DM you want when playing with other creative mids and runners. Always feels like he'd be better in a three Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
skybluedave Posted July 10, 2021 Share Posted July 10, 2021 Best summer of their lives Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_jagster Posted July 10, 2021 Share Posted July 10, 2021 (edited) Phillips has had one really good game against Croatia and been fine in other games. Both Denmark and Germany had the edge in midfield in the respective first halves. For what Southgate wants to do Rice has been good. It reminds me of any Southampton player championed by MLG, for the role they have been given both have done well but ideally you'd have better players there. And then we have linguistic gymnastics as to how they are actually really good in this narrow role we are measuring players by when clearly Verrati and Jorginho are better players. Last season Phillips was regularly being praised for pinging it wide and I can't say I've noticed that during the Euros, likewise Rice hasn't carried the ball forward much at all, Maguire has done that instead. Clearly they've been told to keep it safe and give it to more creative players. Edited July 10, 2021 by The_jagster 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
aggressive minor Posted July 10, 2021 Share Posted July 10, 2021 Speaking of MLG, where is he? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
skybluedave Posted July 10, 2021 Share Posted July 10, 2021 (edited) 10 minutes ago, aggressive minor said: Speaking of MLG, where is he? No Southampton players. No party Another thing to thank Southgate for. And we thought the Grealish fans were a pain... Edited July 10, 2021 by skybluedave Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pukey Posted July 10, 2021 Author Share Posted July 10, 2021 (edited) Phillips' instructions are different to his role at Leeds, clearly utilising his energy and pressing more, see: He absolutely has been playing long passes though. There's been at least 3 brilliant balls I can remember that a poor touch lead to it going nowhere. He also set Mount up with a great ball that I can't find on any bloody highlights because it didn't lead to a great chance in the end. https://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/m000xpmj/euro-2020-replay-england-v-denmark - Basically bang on 61 minutes here in the full replay. He's definitely played quite a few similar balls as well. Edited July 10, 2021 by Pukey Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
skybluedave Posted July 10, 2021 Share Posted July 10, 2021 He has had joy with the ball over the top on the turn. Did it against Denmark. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RTHerringbone Posted July 10, 2021 Share Posted July 10, 2021 Wonder how significant Foden's knock is. All I can find from Southgate is "He's got a fairly minor foot injury…..But it's just whether it's going to be one that clears up in time for him to be able to take part in the game, so we'll have to assess that again later." Obviously it's highly unlikely that he'd have started but he has been a really great asset from the bench so would definitely be a loss to us if we're trying to get a goal or maintain some control later on. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wkdsoul Posted July 10, 2021 Share Posted July 10, 2021 1 minute ago, RTHerringbone said: Wonder how significant Foden's knock is. All I can find from Southgate is "He's got a fairly minor foot injury…..But it's just whether it's going to be one that clears up in time for him to be able to take part in the game, so we'll have to assess that again later." Obviously it's highly unlikely that he'd have started but he has been a really great asset from the bench so would definitely be a loss to us if we're trying to get a goal or maintain some control later on. He'll miss the game according to reports just out. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RTHerringbone Posted July 10, 2021 Share Posted July 10, 2021 2 minutes ago, wkdsoul said: He'll miss the game according to reports just out. Really? Balls, that's a bit of an arse. I guess we'll have to make do with Grealish, Sancho and Henderson as options. Could be worse Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
craigcwwe Posted July 10, 2021 Share Posted July 10, 2021 2 hours ago, Baptista_8 said: Busquets may be past his best, but both him and Rodri are better than Rice and Phillips. Koke didn't have a great tournament, but I wouldn't write him off as a nothing player. And Pedri at 18 is the best of the bunch with the most to his game. I disagree on the first part. If Koke was English there'd be loads of posts about 'what does he do' etc. He's not better than Rice or Phillips. He wouldn't get in our team. And Pedri, yeah, agreed, I said he was the best of the lot out of those mentioned. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wkdsoul Posted July 10, 2021 Share Posted July 10, 2021 15 minutes ago, RTHerringbone said: Really? Balls, that's a bit of an arse. I guess we'll have to make do with Grealish, Sancho and Henderson as options. Could be worse Slipping Hendo in as a game changer... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
enigmatic Posted July 10, 2021 Share Posted July 10, 2021 1 hour ago, RTHerringbone said: Wonder how significant Foden's knock is. All I can find from Southgate is "He's got a fairly minor foot injury…..But it's just whether it's going to be one that clears up in time for him to be able to take part in the game, so we'll have to assess that again later." Obviously it's highly unlikely that he'd have started but he has been a really great asset from the bench so would definitely be a loss to us if we're trying to get a goal or maintain some control later on. Just makes the decision to bring on Grealish easier Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob1981 Posted July 10, 2021 Share Posted July 10, 2021 Amazing. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rebs Posted July 10, 2021 Share Posted July 10, 2021 Even I'm completely nervous now so god knows how you're handling it @Rob1981 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Golden boy Posted July 10, 2021 Share Posted July 10, 2021 Radio X just played Three Lions with the commentary pieces from the Denmark SF. Goosebump-inducing. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baptista_8 Posted July 10, 2021 Share Posted July 10, 2021 https://www.instagram.com/reel/CRCXR9dAljJ/?utm_medium=copy_link Go on Bar' Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigV Posted July 10, 2021 Share Posted July 10, 2021 Baz is loving it isn't he 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
skybluedave Posted July 10, 2021 Share Posted July 10, 2021 Get him singing the nationa anthem tomorrow Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
skybluedave Posted July 10, 2021 Share Posted July 10, 2021 20 minutes ago, Rebs said: Even I'm completely nervous now so god knows how you're handling it @Rob1981 Ditto. Starting to freak out a bit now. Gonna try to relax and enjoy it tomorrow best I can. It's once in a lifetime (so far anyway) so lets just enjoy the silly build up and soak it in. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rebs Posted July 10, 2021 Share Posted July 10, 2021 7 minutes ago, skybluedave said: Ditto. Starting to freak out a bit now. Gonna try to relax and enjoy it tomorrow best I can. It's once in a lifetime (so far anyway) so lets just enjoy the silly build up and soak it in. Yeah definitely, I think even if we lose it won't hurt as bad as say going out at the semi final stage. To be in the final is just amazing and I just want to enjoy it no matter what. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
skybluedave Posted July 10, 2021 Share Posted July 10, 2021 Yeah I know people aresaying losing finals are the worst but I'm not fearing the loss as much as the previous rounds. And weirdly it's quite nice knowing that even if we do lose the tournament is over anyway. A odd as that sounds. I find the worst bit when England go out is to then sit through a bunch more games knowing England are out. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
craigcwwe Posted July 10, 2021 Share Posted July 10, 2021 53 minutes ago, Rebs said: Yeah definitely, I think even if we lose it won't hurt as bad as say going out at the semi final stage. To be in the final is just amazing and I just want to enjoy it no matter what. I don't get this. Losing a final is worse than getting knocked out at the SF stage to me. 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
arenaross Posted July 10, 2021 Share Posted July 10, 2021 Go woke. People like it. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
skybluedave Posted July 10, 2021 Share Posted July 10, 2021 But I thought it was a pointless gesture that served no purpose? 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rebs Posted July 10, 2021 Share Posted July 10, 2021 1 hour ago, craigcwwe said: I don't get this. Losing a final is worse than getting knocked out at the SF stage to me. No way, at least you've had the occasion...if you get knocked out in the semi then you have had none of it, may as well have gone out at the start. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smallen Posted July 10, 2021 Share Posted July 10, 2021 Having not had a team to support in a cup final since ‘99 I’d far rather we got to the final and lost* than go out in the semis. *we won’t Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
EnterUsernameHere Posted July 10, 2021 Share Posted July 10, 2021 I wouldn't go as far as saying I'd rather not get to the final than lose it, but a final defeat is crushing. I don't look back and enjoy the semi final wins against Roma in 2018, but I remember the pain of Madrid beating Liverpool in the final. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smallen Posted July 10, 2021 Share Posted July 10, 2021 It’s a bit different though isn’t it? England haven’t made a final for 55 years. Liverpool make them on a semi-regular basis in various comps. I think we’ll all look back on it favourably. Especially when we win 3-0. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baptista_8 Posted July 10, 2021 Share Posted July 10, 2021 1 hour ago, craigcwwe said: I don't get this. Losing a final is worse than getting knocked out at the SF stage to me. 100% Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
EnterUsernameHere Posted July 10, 2021 Share Posted July 10, 2021 (edited) Yeah probably is, I was speaking generally but every club/country have their own views. Generally, I'd rather Liverpool win the CL than PL for example, but until we won it in 2020, the PL was the holy grail. Edited July 10, 2021 by EnterUsernameHere Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Amazing Dale Watkins Posted July 10, 2021 Share Posted July 10, 2021 43 minutes ago, Rebs said: No way, at least you've had the occasion...if you get knocked out in the semi then you have had none of it, may as well have gone out at the start. I don't know, man. Ask the Dutch how fondly they remember 1974, 1978 and 2010. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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