My board hates me.

[kevhamster]

I'm managing in Haverfordwest County AFC in the Cymru Premier.  I started the save unemployed, minimal rep and no coaching badges.

I've done well in the role - outperformed what was expected in almost all competitions (I'll brush the Europa Conference League under the rug) and have reached 3 cup finals (potentially 4) in 3 seasons, winning one along the way.

Still, my board refuse to send me on a coaching course.  I ask as regularly as I can.  We're not in an overdraft and I'm well under budget - the club can afford it.

They're happy to send every other member of the coaching team on courses though (without me asking them to).  As it stands, I'm the first team manager and the only member of the coaching team without any coaching qualifications.  It all seems kind of ridiculous to me.

[XaW]

Do they give any reason? When I managed in Wales they said they feared it would make me too attractive to other clubs. But after a few years, they accepted and then gave me further as well.

[TheRailwaymen]

Ask in the holidays. That way they can't say they need you at training.

[kevhamster]

1 hour ago, XaW said:

Do they give any reason? When I managed in Wales they said they feared it would make me too attractive to other clubs. But after a few years, they accepted and then gave me further as well.

Yeah, they do cite this kind of thing.  It's very annoying! 

However, sometimes they just say they don't see the benefit.

35 minutes ago, TheRailwaymen said:

Ask in the holidays. That way they can't say they need you at training.

I've tried this.  Doesn't help sadly!

Edited May 17, 2022 by kevhamster

[Prepper_Jack]

My favorite is the old "but, if we get you the training, another club will come in and hire you". Honest it may be, but also a surefire way to get someone to run from a job. There really needs to be an option in that case to offer contractual guarantees that you'll stick around if you receive training... because that's what they do in the real world all the time.

But, anyway, if you get an A+ rating from the board, they'll give it to you, usually outright. On the odd occasion where the rating is marginal it may require you to discuss the issue with the board, and it doesn't take much convincing.

Once you get your determination up, however, which can be done through such board dialogues, getting requests filled from them does become easier.

[kevhamster]

15 minutes ago, Prepper_Jack said:

My favorite is the old "but, if we get you the training, another club will come in and hire you". Honest it may be, but also a surefire way to get someone to run from a job. There really needs to be an option in that case to offer contractual guarantees that you'll stick around if you receive training... because that's what they do in the real world all the time.

But, anyway, if you get an A+ rating from the board, they'll give it to you, usually outright. On the odd occasion where the rating is marginal it may require you to discuss the issue with the board, and it doesn't take much convincing.

Once you get your determination up, however, which can be done through such board dialogues, getting requests filled from them does become easier.

I did ask at a point when I had an A+ rating - they still refused.  I think the board for this club are just jerks lol.

[XaW]

1 hour ago, kevhamster said:

I did ask at a point when I had an A+ rating - they still refused.  I think the board for this club are just jerks lol.

I'd love for this to be a part to negotiate in a contract renewal for the manager. "I want a coaching course if you want me to extend my contract" sort of deal...

[podunkboy]

I've had them give me the "but if you improve, we'll lose you to another club". You know what makes you lose me to another club? Taking advantage of my skills without offering me the opportunity to improve myself. Once they give me that a couple times, I let the players contracts run down and set them for release, I wait until a couple weeks before my contract runs out, I fire all the staff and I leave them professionally destroyed. Then I take a job with their rival and BURY THEM. 

[PhilT]

When I was manager of Llandudno, they paid all my badges right up to the top. I think they only questioned me once that they feared I would bugger off if they sent me on the one course but when I said it would aid the club, they sent me. I was pretty successful there. Not sure why you're not getting sent, maybe they really fear you being poached. All clubs are different I guess.

[thehig2]

 this happened with me at SA Ashdod in the Israeli National league, they kept saying that I might look for a bigger club if I get the training, finished the season in 4th (team were expected to go down). Rating with board was A+ at this point, I asked they said the same thing, at this point Hapoel Nof Hagalil in the Premier Division offered me an interview, I took it moved and they gave me coaching course on my first day. 

Agree with thoughts in this thread that coaching badge training should be something you can put into contract talks, also there should be more room to argue the toss with the board over it and the option to give an ultimatum about it (with a chance of the board backing down) 

[Prepper_Jack]

21 minutes ago, thehig2 said:

there should be more room to argue the toss with the board over it and the option to give an ultimatum about it (with a chance of the board backing down) 

Yeah, this is one thing SI needs to fix. Currently too many board "discussions" often end with a middle finger thrown in your face and the door slammed shut, even if you've done very good by them, bringing them success, talking the board and club up, and rejecting all other employment offers. You should always be able to go to them and say, "look, if you don't do this, I'll have to find employment elsewhere". I do remember that option being there in past versions of FM. The board didn't want to fund a coaching course because they feared they would lose me, but decided ultimately it would be better to let me leave than give me a coaching course. Instead of fixing this ridiculous and illogical scenario, they seem to have just brushed it under the rug by hiding the options.

Also, "negotiations" of club vision are hilariously one sided.

Board: This year, we will prefer possession soccer, require defensive soccer, prefer signing youth players, require developing youth players, and prefer the mastery of the set piece!

Head Coach: Umm, I like the details of the vision you've proposed, except for this set piece thing. We have the shortest team in our division, and it would make no sense. We'd have to rebuild the entire team. Please remove it.

Board: We have an issue with your proposed "vision". It does not have the set piece!

Head Coach: Can we talk about this set piece thing?

Board: WE ARE GETTING VERY AGITATED NOW.

Head Coach: Uhh, I just earned you back to back promotions. Can we discuss this rationally? No set pieces, please?

Board: I AM GRAVELY DISAPPOINTED IN YOU. AGAIN YOU MAKE ME UNLEASH MY DOGS OF WAR!

Head Coach: Wait, what?

Why do they even have the option there to "negotiate" these things? I've never been able to successfully negotiate it. Should just say, "Here's our demands this season, slave. Fulfill them or see red thumbs down and how devastated we are. Won't that make you feel bad?"

[podunkboy]

13 hours ago, Prepper_Jack said:

Yeah, this is one thing SI needs to fix. Currently too many board "discussions" often end with a middle finger thrown in your face and the door slammed shut, even if you've done very good by them, bringing them success, talking the board and club up, and rejecting all other employment offers. You should always be able to go to them and say, "look, if you don't do this, I'll have to find employment elsewhere". I do remember that option being there in past versions of FM. The board didn't want to fund a coaching course because they feared they would lose me, but decided ultimately it would be better to let me leave than give me a coaching course. Instead of fixing this ridiculous and illogical scenario, they seem to have just brushed it under the rug by hiding the options.

Also, "negotiations" of club vision are hilariously one sided.

Why do they even have the option there to "negotiate" these things? I've never been able to successfully negotiate it. Should just say, "Here's our demands this season, slave. Fulfill them or see red thumbs down and how devastated we are. Won't that make you feel bad?"

I find as long as you nominally meet MOST of their demands (and keep progressing), they look the other way and eventually drop some of their demands and come around to your side. And if they don't? Job market's always full of new opportunities to work for someone who agrees with your tactical vision. 

[Freakiie]

Yeah, I've generally was relatively successful in getting rid of bloat visions the board loves to add every year (Hey, we had some minor success in the past 2 season, so go sign high profile players already! Who cares that we're supposed to be a club focused on bringing in young players and developing them!). Although this season it seems to be "make the most of set pieces" that just keeps getting thrown at you sooner or later. Personally, I really don't mind that one since I don't sign CDs that can't jump anyway, but it's really weird to be told to make the most out of set pieces while you're at a club like Barcelona!

[kevhamster]

Update:  I finally got sent on my first coaching course!

It was 2 weeks before my contract expiry having rejected a new contract twice, and was not long after winning the Welsh Cup which may have helped.  I did go for a new contract after they finally let me do the course.