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Match 5: Argentina vs Saudi Arabia - LIVE on ITV1 (10am GMT) from Lusail Iconic Stadium

Coulthard's Jaw

By Coulthard's Jaw,
in 2022 World Cup Forum

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sc91

sc91

Posted
Posted
4 minutes ago, Haguey said:

Can imagine a few of those Saudi players will be looked at by teams in Europe. Or is there still a ban on them signing for foreign teams like the CM 01-02 days :D

I always thought the issue was that they were paid a lot more in the Middle East?

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GunmaN1905

GunmaN1905

Posted
Posted (edited)
16 minutes ago, The_jagster said:

Wrong Tony.

 

Well, I bottled it.

My apologies. :ackter:

The point still stands.

  

2 minutes ago, sc91 said:

I always thought the issue was that they were paid a lot more in the Middle East?

I think that their #10 earns like 10 million net per year. They don't really care about moving away.

And a lot of them are from families that don't need money, apparently.

Edited by GunmaN1905
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Heartwork

Heartwork

Posted
Posted
30 minutes ago, CFuller said:

A better stat than anything Matterface has ever churned out.

Some managers are just more cut out for international management than club management and vice versa. Renard has an international management CV that makes him one of the most respected international managers in the game despite his poor club record. Same as how some successful club managers have failed at international level.

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GunmaN1905

GunmaN1905

Posted
Posted (edited)
2 minutes ago, Heartwork said:

Some managers are just more cut out for international management than club management and vice versa. Renard has an international management CV that makes him one of the most respected international managers in the game despite his poor club record. Same as how some successful club managers have failed at international level.

I think Saudis stopped their league a month earlier and played quite a few friendlies while obviously also working on their fitness a lot over the years.

I don't think he'd fail at club level, it's just that why manage some let's say mid-lower table Ligue 1 team when you can earn massive money with Saudis?

I'm sure that emir is showering him with money as we speak. :D

Edited by GunmaN1905
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Heartwork

Heartwork

Posted
Posted
4 minutes ago, GunmaN1905 said:

 

I think that their #10 earns like 10 million net per year. They don't really care about moving away.

And a lot of them are from families that don't need money, apparently.

So if they moved it wouldn't be for money but for prestige. Plus their families will probably shower the club they go to with sponsorship money.

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Weezer

Weezer

Posted
Posted
13 minutes ago, kpain16 said:

They earn much higher wages than they would in Europe for the level of their ability.

Some of the wages the Middle Eastern players get on FM are insane.

I always try to buy Al Soma but the guy’s on 100k+ p/w!

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kpain16

kpain16

Posted
Posted (edited)
14 minutes ago, Weezer said:

Some of the wages the Middle Eastern players get on FM are insane.

I always try to buy Al Soma but the guy’s on 100k+ p/w!

Yeah, he does seem to have an obscene wage. Not to mention they probably get huge bonuses as well.

 

Croatian NT coach Dalić was a star manager in Saudi Arabia and UAE and is loaded as hell. You only need to see his summer house on the island of Pag. His Croatia wage is among the lowest in the World Cup, doesn't need it. 

Edited by kpain16
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JD nawrat

JD nawrat

Posted
Posted
2 hours ago, GunmaN1905 said:

But over the past 3 years they steadily improved and their teamplay was way better than any other team.

It's a short, NT tournament. Always about being solid as a team and having a few class individuals to create goals out of nothing.

England has Maguire starting, Portugal has 40 years old Pepe, France has washed up Lloris, Brazil's backline is old and washed up, Germany has a couple of anonymous defender to the continental audience, Spain's is also unimpressive.

Aged like milk :D

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Bunkerossian

Bunkerossian

Posted
Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, Ackter said:

Because they've not been allowed to.

That makes this win all the more shocking. An utterly reactionary state and society that prevents players from developing, but here, they beat one of the much trumpeted contenders. I honestly thought they could get a point in the group stage. Renard is a good manager. But a win? No way. I didn't bother watching the game.

Edited by Bunkerossian
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VP.

VP.

Posted
Posted (edited)

Wasn't impressed with Argentina even in the first half when they were on top as without the ball they're all over the place. Once the Saudi's calmed themselves down a bit at half time and came out much more composed in the second half (admittedly they still gave the Argies a bit of a kicking too) they looked comfortable once ahead.

Also don't think I've seen a team run and fight as much as Saudi Arabia did from the first minute to last. Stats will probably say otherwise but from watching the game they fully deserved their win.

 

Edited by VP.
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PMLF

PMLF

Posted
Posted
2 hours ago, thomyorkessoul said:

@PMLF how are they going to view this in Brazil? Just laughing at Argentina, or do they look at it as a bad result for all of South American football? I hope they're just laughing about it.

Just laughing about it, as the Argentinians would do if the roles were reversed.

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PMLF

PMLF

Posted
Posted

This Argentina defeat will increase Brazil’s favoritism to win the tournament. It will be interesting to see if the players can handle the pressure as Brazil usually perform a lot better when they are not the main favorites.

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Heartwork

Heartwork

Posted
Posted
5 minutes ago, PMLF said:

This Argentina defeat will increase Brazil’s favoritism to win the tournament. It will be interesting to see if the players can handle the pressure as Brazil usually perform a lot better when they are not the main favorites.

Flashbacks to 2014

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GunmaN1905

GunmaN1905

Posted
Posted
6 minutes ago, InigoPatinkin said:

Just seen Argentina lost starting Otamendi over Martinez and we complain about Southgate :D

That wasn't even the biggest issue at CB.

Romero clearly isn't fully fit and he was always a step late.

Another thing was starting one midfielder (whol barely played this season) and 4 wingers, having no balance.

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GunmaN1905

GunmaN1905

Posted
Posted
6 minutes ago, Astafjevs said:

He started De Paul and Paredes. Two midfielders. 

De Paul was always a winger or trequartista for Udinese. Then Scaloni started to play that hybrid 4-4-2 with Di Maria being a wide forward of sorts and De Paul being a bit more defensive on the other side.

De Paul moved to Atletico and plays (or doesn't, this season) in similar way for Cholo, he never played with just one proper midfielder.

It was always two natural central midfielders alongside him. He has a good work rate, covers a lot of ground, but he was never a traditional midfielder.

Then to make it even worse, 35 year old Papu replaced Lo Celso, so they had no pressing power or physicality in midfield.

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Astafjevs

Astafjevs

Posted
Posted

He never played as a winger at Udinese. He's never been one, he's a central midfielder. Whether you think he can play in a two or not doesn't mean he's now a wide player.

Argentina have played those two loads of times together and it's never been a problem. The issue is picking Gómez and not someone else. But then it's Saudi Arabia and they should have enough to beat them regardless. They were inches away from ending the game in the first half and the conversation would be different 

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GunmaN1905

GunmaN1905

Posted
Posted
5 minutes ago, Astafjevs said:

He never played as a winger at Udinese. He's never been one, he's a central midfielder. Whether you think he can play in a two or not doesn't mean he's now a wide player.

He was literally never a central midfielder for them. Always played behind the striker if they didn't have wingers.

Udinese, Atletico and Argentina always have two actual, natural, central or defensive midfields alongside him.

Quote

Argentina have played those two loads of times together and it's never been a problem. 

Yeah, they always played together...with another midfielder next to them. Mostly Lo Celso, who's now injured.

It was either him or Guido Rodriguez, who's even more of a DM than Paredes. It was never just two of them and then three players who are 100+ years old combined in front.

Quote

The issue is picking Gómez and not someone else.

That we obviously agree on.

Quote

But then it's Saudi Arabia and they should have enough to beat them regardless. They were inches away from ending the game in the first half and the conversation would be different 

True, but that's how underdog wins usually happen. You make one or two mistakes and then you have to turn the game around, which Argentina couldn't, not even close.

I'd say that it was even bad scouting, they took it way too casually after the early lead. Being caught offside so many times as a top player is obviously a scouting issue.

When Saudis stayed all the way up at 45 meters from their goal, they looked so surprised, with no solutions other to hoof it to Di Maria and hope he makes something happen.

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enigmatic

enigmatic

Posted
Posted
4 hours ago, Rob1981 said:

I'd still have Senegal v France as the biggest upset probably.  Reigning World and European champions against a team that had never ever qualified before.  Plus it was the opening game.

Today would be top five though probably, maybe with Senegal/France, Argies/Cameroon and Italy/North Korea.  Not sure what else, maybe USA/England.

And the greatest footballer ever to have been born in Senegal starting. For France.

On the flip side, I think that Senegal side had much better players than Saudi, and whilst Saudi have qualified a lot by dint of the easiest qualification route they've usually been the worst side in the competition. Argentina were South American champions on a 36 game unbeaten run too, so it's not like they were far behind that France side.

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HOORAY HENRIK

HOORAY HENRIK

Posted
Posted (edited)

Still have Cameroon beating Argentina in 90 as a greater upset. Especially when you consider the level some of the Cameroon players were at. Plus they actually won while down to 10. I mean this was the captain and a few others team…

Although Tonnerre were one of Cameroon's leading clubs, they lacked basic facilities; playing on a baked earth pitch in a stadium with no showers or dressing rooms. 

:D

Edited by HOORAY HENRIK
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