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Iran v USA - Al Thumama Stadium, Cymru v England - Ahmad bin Ali Stadium, 7PM UK time.

git2thachoppa

By git2thachoppa,
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oche balboa

oche balboa

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Robert Page is a little deluded considering Wales were very poor today, People were talking of Wales topping the group yet they scored 1 goal a Penalty. If i was a Wales supporter i would be annoyed with the lack of effort from the better experienced players. Bale failed on the big stage this time. Ramsey did nothing. 

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The_jagster

The_jagster

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7 minutes ago, XuluBak said:

We made that hard on ourselves. Not a fan of that second half game management. They looked completely outmatched athletically in the first half. Our midfield three were dominating, they didn't have pace to counter, we were finding lots of space out wide in attack, etc.

Sargent was so much better today than vs Wales. Hopefully, he's able to go Saturday. Haji Wright was shocking. 

More Aaronson please... 

Do you think it's a tactical decision or just tiring in the second half, in all three matches you've looked more dangerous in the first half than the second.

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enigmatic

enigmatic

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Posted (edited)
32 minutes ago, Smallen said:

It might be unpopular opinion but Phillips has a much better understanding of how to play in this team than Declan Rice does imo.

That seems suspiciously like a popular opinion tbh, Rice being the sort of water carrier that only players and managers get excited about and having had his rare bad game against the USA, and perception of Phillips being improved by him not playing in that game 

Realistically much as everyone loves moaning about it they work particularly well together.

 

-

Jeez, people moan about Gareth's interviews and Rob Page is describing a first half in which they had no touches in the opposition box and two wildly off target shots in a must-win game as a source of national pride and what they came to do!

At least after they conceded they looked like they realised England were actually possible to score against.

Edited by enigmatic
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XuluBak

XuluBak

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1 minute ago, The_jagster said:

Do you think it's a tactical decision or just tiring in the second half, in all three matches you've looked more dangerous in the first half than the second.

We definitely switched. The heat/humidity/conditions might've been a factor, but we went from 433 to 442 with Aaronson coming on. (Then 541 down the stretch)

Both sides were clearly struggling at the end, so maybe it was the right choice. It just felt like we let them back in it, and largely stopped threatening. 

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Anthrax Dave

Anthrax Dave

Posted
Posted

Almost feel a bit sorry for Wales, as our cousins, but they offered absolutely nothing going forward for 2.5 games.

Wouldn't be surprised if the USA beat the Netherlands (who haven't looked up to much, to be honest) and we screw it up with over-confidence against Senegal.

Senegal are a seriously dangerous team; If they score first, we could be in trouble.

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git2thachoppa

git2thachoppa

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5 minutes ago, SouthCoastRed said:

How does this work ffs, they get first pick 2 rounds running!

So not only have we got to overcome the jinx, we have to put up with Twatterface and Dixon twice more!! Ffs

When you're BBC or ITV, you basically choose between 2 guaranteed England matches + a semi that may never happen but would be huge ratings vs 1 guaranteed match but 2 likely England knockouts but not the big semi if it happens (and everyone wants a big semi).

Edited by git2thachoppa
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Peterj

Peterj

Posted
Posted
2 minutes ago, git2thachoppa said:

When you're BBC or ITV, you basically choose between 2 guaranteed England matches + a semi that may never happen but would be huge ratings vs 1 guaranteed match but 2 likely England knockouts but not the big semi if it happens (and everyone wants a big semi).

Only the most gifted have a big semi.

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Rob1981

Rob1981

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Posted
4 minutes ago, SouthCoastRed said:

How does this work ffs, they get first pick 2 rounds running!

BBC took two group games out of three and also wanted first pick for the semis... super confident we are making the last four obviously

Far cry from the 1990s and 2000s when they used to fight like cat and dog over the first R16 pick because they didn't expect England to go any further

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SouthCoastRed

SouthCoastRed

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7 minutes ago, Rob1981 said:

BBC took two group games out of three and also wanted first pick for the semis... super confident we are making the last four obviously

Far cry from the 1990s and 2000s when they used to fight like cat and dog over the first R16 pick because they didn't expect England to go any further

True. But ITV will doom that. I suppose Senegal v France will make a good grudge rematch

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JD nawrat

JD nawrat

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, InigoPatinkin said:

Mad he's probably going to waste his best years at City

I know you said "probably" but no idea how you can jump to such a conclusion. With Gundogan possibly going at the end of the season, and a neverending will-he-won't-he scenario with Bernardo, there's every chance Phillips will be the future of our midfield. Hard to get a read on that when we signed a player who required shoulder surgery - i expect him to play plenty post-WC, fitness permitting. 

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git2thachoppa

git2thachoppa

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1 minute ago, PMLF said:

According to Globo Esporte, Brazilians online were supporting more Iran than the USA:

https://ge.globo.com/futebol/copa-do-mundo/noticia/2022/11/29/indecisao-dos-internautas-e-leve-apoio-ao-ira-os-memes-do-duelo-com-os-eua.ghtml

I'm curious how many people that celebrated Saudi Arabia's shock win and rooted for Iran the last couple matches were the same ones hoping Qatar get whooped 5-0 every match.

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PMLF

PMLF

Posted
Posted (edited)
4 minutes ago, git2thachoppa said:

I'm curious how many people that celebrated Saudi Arabia's shock win and rooted for Iran the last couple matches were the same ones hoping Qatar get whooped 5-0 every match.

I don’t know about other countries but in Brazil it seems there has been far less hostility against Qatar than what appears to be happening in Europe and the USA.

Generally people here still more worried about our political polarization than about problems from other countries.

Edited by PMLF
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Coulthard's Jaw

Coulthard's Jaw

Posted
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2 hours ago, Rob1981 said:

BBC took two group games out of three and also wanted first pick for the semis... super confident we are making the last four obviously

Far cry from the 1990s and 2000s when they used to fight like cat and dog over the first R16 pick because they didn't expect England to go any further

2018 and 2021 were bad for the BBC, huge semi finals exclusively live on ITV. BBC have probably jinxed it though :D 

Of course for most of the 90s and 2000s I think the arrangement was that the BBC and ITV would share the semi final (was the case in 90 and 96). 

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SouthCoastRed

SouthCoastRed

Posted
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4 minutes ago, Coulthard's Jaw said:

Of course for most of the 90s and 2000s I think the arrangement was that the BBC and ITV would share the semi final (was the case in 90 and 96)

Yeah, and 70s and 80s, when England actually qualified anyway

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JD nawrat

JD nawrat

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1 hour ago, InigoPatinkin said:

Assuming Pep stays at least another 2 years there's very little chance of that. He's not better than Rodri who has basically super-human levels of fitness and is never injured and Pep is more likely to play without a DM than he is to play with two of them and Phillips isn't good enough going forward to play in one of them two '8' roles. He's hoping for either a long term Rodri injury or a spell at fullback to get in the team for any length of time. Then when you factor in he doesn't appear to have the best luck with injuries and won't be getting regular game time... it's pretty easy to see a wide range of scenarios where he plays about 20 games a season for City for the next 2-3 years. 

He isn't the same type of player as Rodri so i see no reason why they can't play together. Gundogan was signed to be our pivot but he plays with Rodri plenty. 

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TalkSport

TalkSport

Posted
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9 hours ago, oche balboa said:

Robert Page is a little deluded considering Wales were very poor today, People were talking of Wales topping the group yet they scored 1 goal a Penalty. If i was a Wales supporter i would be annoyed with the lack of effort from the better experienced players. Bale failed on the big stage this time. Ramsey did nothing. 

Seen some of their games under Page in Nations League and the qualifers for this, they are a very dull side with no identity. Just park the bus, wait for a moment of magic.

Easy to forget they’re fortunate to be here, as Ukraine were the better team till that Bale free kick. 

They’ve got a good euros group to finish 2nd in, but need to improve things otherwise could lose twice to Turkey and that’s that.

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Crispypaul

Crispypaul

Posted
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9 hours ago, git2thachoppa said:

I'm curious how many people that celebrated Saudi Arabia's shock win and rooted for Iran the last couple matches were the same ones hoping Qatar get whooped 5-0 every match.

I expect the former was Argentina losing to a weaker team rather than Saudi winning.

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git2thachoppa

git2thachoppa

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33 minutes ago, Crispypaul said:

I expect the former was Argentina losing to a weaker team rather than Saudi winning.

You expect correctly and it shows their own lack of belief in their slacktivism.

Not a lack of belief in human rights, but a lack of belief in whether watching a match or supporting or playing for a team is an indicator of such belief either side.

Edited by git2thachoppa
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swansongs

swansongs

Posted
Posted
2 hours ago, pearcey_90 said:

Seen some of their games under Page in Nations League and the qualifers for this, they are a very dull side with no identity. Just park the bus, wait for a moment of magic.

Easy to forget they’re fortunate to be here, as Ukraine were the better team till that Bale free kick. 

They’ve got a good euros group to finish 2nd in, but need to improve things otherwise could lose twice to Turkey and that’s that.

There was a point a couple of years ago where it felt like we'd moved past the "wait for magic" stage. The stars had faded, post-2016 results showed that we couldn't just be difficult to beat any more, but then we'd seen new players come in and win games for us. Moore, James, Ampadu, Neco, Wilson, Brooks all adding positively to the limited options we had. Qualified for the 2020 Euros and won promotion in the Nations League playing well and being decent to watch. Giggs was no genius but there were promising signs in what was being built in attack post-Coleman.

I think that promotion has had an impact. Getting beat by vastly superior teams on a regular basis isn't great preparation, and the "just happy to be here, look at what little old Wales has accomplished (past tense)" feeling grew. Perhaps we were fortunate that Bale and Ramsey were never fit at the same time. Page isn't a good manager to begin with (his u21s were rubbish despite having a decent group of players) and he made it very clear that he was picking squads based on sentiment not ability or form.

England are the worst possible matchup for us, last night was always going to be a near impossible task so no complaints there really . A vastly superior player pool all schooled in the exact same systems, even when we had a prime-ish Bale that was asking too much. But we were poor in the other two games, and previously as you say. Quite a few of the "next generation" already look shadows of what they were in a Wales shirt.

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Barry Cartman

Barry Cartman

Posted
Posted (edited)
13 hours ago, Smallen said:

It might be unpopular opinion but Phillips has a much better understanding of how to play in this team than Declan Rice does imo.

Rice was infuriating to watch all game last night, the amount of times Foden was in space out wide with his arm up or he made a run when Rice was on the ball and never played it happened time and time again. Rice was the one first half who he had space to do something on the ball, but every time he just turned around and played a backwards/sidewards pass. As soon as Phillips came on, he found Rashford's run that Foden was making all first half and the 3rd goal came from it 

Edited by Barry Cartman
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Smallen

Smallen

Posted
Posted
1 minute ago, Barry Cartman said:

Rice was infuriating to watch all game last night, the amount of times Foden was in space out wide with his arm up or he made a run when Rice was on the ball and never played it happened time and time again. Rice was the one first half he had space to do something on the ball, but every time he just turned around and played a backwards/sidewards pass. As soon as Phillips came on, he found Rashford's run that Foden was making all first half and the 3rd goal came from it 

Yeah. I still maintain that Rice is a really good player, but you can tell he plays for West Ham/David Moyes. He’s not on the same level tactically as the other players in the team and slows the play down too much. 

That Phillips pass for Rashford’s goal was really simple tbh, but Rice would never have even tried it unfortunately.

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Barry Cartman

Barry Cartman

Posted
Posted
6 minutes ago, Smallen said:

Yeah. I still maintain that Rice is a really good player, but you can tell he plays for West Ham/David Moyes. He’s not on the same level tactically as the other players in the team and slows the play down too much. 

That Phillips pass for Rashford’s goal was really simple tbh, but Rice would never have even tried it unfortunately.

It was simple, and Rice had simple forward passes like that on all first half, but he (not the only one mind, Walker, Stones equally as guilty) just constantly preferred to turn back and find a easy pass  

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GunmaN1905

GunmaN1905

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8 minutes ago, Smallen said:

Yeah. I still maintain that Rice is a really good player, but you can tell he plays for West Ham/David Moyes. He’s not on the same level tactically as the other players in the team and slows the play down too much. 

That Phillips pass for Rashford’s goal was really simple tbh, but Rice would never have even tried it unfortunately.

Idk if it's on Rice's ability or Southgate, but having a competent player in his position would transform the entire team.

By far your weakest link so far, imo. Put Rodri in there and you play way faster and more dangerous.

Now I haven't seen enough of Rice to say if he's just another overrated English prospect or just a victim of Moyes/Southgate, but for England he looks like he lacks basic defensive midfielder fundamentals, that can't be on current coaches. He doesn't know how to receive the ball when CBs are getting pressured in the build up.

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Smallen

Smallen

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Posted
5 minutes ago, GunmaN1905 said:

Idk if it's on Rice's ability or Southgate, but having a competent player in his position would transform the entire team.

By far your weakest link so far, imo. Put Rodri in there and you play way faster and more dangerous.

Now I haven't seen enough of Rice to say if he's just another overrated English prospect or just a victim of Moyes/Southgate, but for England he looks like he lacks basic defensive midfielder fundamentals, that can't be on current coaches. He doesn't know how to receive the ball when CBs are getting pressured in the build up.

Club Declan Rice does this :D :

image.png.8a01b53f58edf6cf0a25201a82e67824.png

 

for some reason fbref has stopped doing carry stats, but he’s always top of the league for progressive carries too. For West Ham he basically gets the ball, runs forward with it and passes it into the final third.

Never seems to do it for England but I think it’s more to do with him having no idea how to play in a possession team to be honest.

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