QF4: England vs France, 7PM GMT, Al Bayt Stadium

[Heartwork]

At least the press can go back to "corrupt World Cup, doesn't count anyway" now

[Weezer]

1 hour ago, Toffle said:

Shocking? This game surely is one of the biggest (if not the biggest) in the ref's life. It's HIS game to referee. If he decides to use VAR to make sure he's taking the right decision, let him do so. No shaming here.

Literally clattered him over in the box, he shouldn’t need VAR for that. I was at the opposite end of the pitch and it was clear as day. If VAR hadn’t pulled him over to watch it he wouldn’t have given it, he didn’t decide to use VAR.

[Darren Moores Mum]

Recency bias and all that but I think I actually feel more gutted about this result than the Italy one. It was there for the taking and we had large parts of the game on top. The Italy game was a dire performance all round.

Edited December 11, 2022 by ginnybob

[Rebs]

Just now, ginnybob said:

Recent bias and all that but I think I actually feel more gutted about this result than the Italy game. It was there for the taking and we had large parts of the game on top. The Italy game was a dire performance all round.

Agree, we were terrible in the Italy match and last night we were pretty good. 

[skybluedave]

4 minutes ago, Heartwork said:

At least the press can go back to "corrupt World Cup, doesn't count anyway" now

Yeah I'm boycotting it now. Disgraceful tournament

[Smallen]

1 minute ago, ginnybob said:

Recency bias and all that but I think I actually feel more gutted about this result than the Italy one. It was there for the taking and we had large parts of the game on top. The Italy game was a dire performance all round.

I know what you mean, but I'm the other way on it. Far happier at us going out playing like that and deserving to win than I was when we played Italy. 

There were promising signs in last night's game. 6 months ago, we 100% would've swapped to a back 5 for that game. Instead we took it to them as much as we realistically could. 

[Confused Clarity]

With the second one, I think the referee's placement meant he thought the contact was shoulder to shoulder, which, if it were, would have been robust and a bit cynical, but still within the laws of the game. The kind of foul most don't like seeing but would be put down to clever play.  

Am sure that's what Hernandez was aiming for too, because he cant be stupid enough to intentionally do what he actually did. But Mount is clever enough to ensure that he just clatters into his back anyway. It was absolutely stupid from Hernandez who didn't even need to do it. Tried to go in with a "clever" play and got totally done.

 

[skybluedave]

It looked to me like Mount wasn't going to reach the ball anyway, looked a fair bit over his head. That's why I thought they wouldn't give it. No idea if that's a rule or not though

[Weezer]

7 minutes ago, ginnybob said:

Recency bias and all that but I think I actually feel more gutted about this result than the Italy one. It was there for the taking and we had large parts of the game on top. The Italy game was a dire performance all round.

Said the same to my friends. It actually feels more disappointing going out that way because we were the better team and should have won. If we’d been outplayed I think it would have been easier to take.

[The_jagster]

3 minutes ago, skybluedave said:

It looked to me like Mount wasn't going to reach the ball anyway, looked a fair bit over his head. That's why I thought they wouldn't give it. No idea if that's a rule or not though

That's why it was a foul but not a red, because he's probably not reaching it

[JD nawrat]

I think the referee was shocking but he was shocking with regards to both England and France. I think if England had won, a lot of French people would be saying the same things England are. 

Ultimately, both teams had to deal with the **** refereeing standards. England have only themselves to blame. Afterall, it was not the referee who skied a penalty at the end. 

[_mxrky]

2 hours ago, Mr Adam said:

Saka definitely fits the way this England side plays better than Foden does. But Foden is the better player. It’s closer than many think tho.

Despite our decent run, I’d say probably Saka and strangely Harry Kane would be the only players to have come out of it with enhanced reputations. 

Better based on what? Some imaginary intangible and an idealised version of the player rather than what he actually does. Because he’s certainly not better as a winger. Can’t beat his man 1 v 1 lack Saka can. Not as clever mentally either 

[JD nawrat]

6 minutes ago, _mxrky said:

Better based on what? Some imaginary intangible and an idealised version of the player rather than what he actually does. Because he’s certainly not better as a winger. Can’t beat his man 1 v 1 lack Saka can. Not as clever mentally either 

What

e: not gonna argue about who is or isn't better because I've said many times i think Saka is incredible, but Foden is too. Foden broke into a star studded City side and cemented his name as one of the best players, nevermind best young players. No idea what makes you think he's not intelligent or incapable of beating his man. He's phenomenal in both aspects. 

also Saka plays as an inside forward where Foden is a more traditional winger. They're not even really comparable. 

Edited December 11, 2022 by JD nawrat

[Coulthard's Jaw]

16 minutes ago, ginnybob said:

Recency bias and all that but I think I actually feel more gutted about this result than the Italy one. It was there for the taking and we had large parts of the game on top. The Italy game was a dire performance all round.

I'm more gutted about last night but I think that's because this is the World Cup. It's the big one.

[Coulthard's Jaw]

Why are people so weird about Saka  

[JD nawrat]

2 minutes ago, Coulthard's Jaw said:

Why are people so weird about Saka  

Fans and referees in equal amounts of bs

[skybluedave]

I think this WC has cemented Saka and Foden as our first choice wide players for the forseeable. 

[_mxrky]

8 minutes ago, JD nawrat said:

What

e: not gonna argue about who is or isn't better because I've said many times i think Saka is incredible, but Foden is too. Foden broke into a star studded City side and cemented his name as one of the best players, nevermind best young players. No idea what makes you think he's not intelligent or incapable of beating his man. He's phenomenal in both aspects. 

He can’t beat his man as well as Saka can from  a standing start. Literally Arteta’s whole atttacking plan is based on isolating Saka 1 v1 vs the oppo full back. I didn’t at Foden isn’t intelligent. He’s not intelligent as Saka though. He’s not phenomenal at either aspects. If he was he wouldn’t be bang average at rw and he also wouldn’t  be playing on the wing. He should be playing centrally but he hasn’t developed the midfielder qualities  yet because he hasn’t developed mentally enough for it.

Edited December 11, 2022 by _mxrky

[Coulthard's Jaw]

1 minute ago, skybluedave said:

I think this WC has cemented Saka and Foden as our first choice wide players for the forseeable. 

I don't know how you'd do it tactically, but Foden in the number 10 role allowing Kane to stay up front would be cool.

[GunmaN1905]

1 minute ago, skybluedave said:

I think this WC has cemented Saka and Foden as our first choice wide players for the forseeable. 

I think Foden should play in the middle because you have no proper playmakers.
Neither Rice nor Bellingham are playmakers, do you have someone else coming up?

There's plenty of talent on the wings, Foden should be #10, he's the only one capable of creating a goal out of nothing.

Saka-Foden-Bellingham should be the trio around which the team is built.

[_mxrky]

5 minutes ago, Coulthard's Jaw said:

Why are people so weird about Saka  

Bellingham and Foden get called generational talents when Saka outperformed them both this tournament and has been outperforming the later for a year and a half in a worse team. He never gets his dues and it’s ridiculous. Always seen as inferior for whatever reason. Even the arsenal researcher told me he’s not an elite talent like foden/ greenwood. Which was utter nonsense

[TalkSport]

2 minutes ago, skybluedave said:

I think this WC has cemented Saka and Foden as our first choice wide players for the forseeable. 

Oh god, hope not. Foden needs to be central. He can do the job on left well, but centrally he’s key for us moving forward. He’s best involvement last night was when he was allowed to leave the left touchline and pick the ball up more centrally. Meant he didn’t have Kounde man marking him and France didn’t know who to pick him up.

Getting him to work in a midfield three which contains Bellingham should be a priority moving forward to the Euros IMO.

[Christmas]

54 minutes ago, Smallen said:

“you got two penalties, can’t complain!!!” is one of the dumbest arguments I’ve heard.

I agree completely that if they were genuine pens then that they were awarded says nothing as to bias or lack of. 

But Maguire didn't say England didn't get the 50/50 decisions (and they did get a fair few of them), he said they didn't get anything. Which is nothing more than wee man tragic sour grapes 

[Confused Clarity]

8 minutes ago, Coulthard's Jaw said:

Why are people so weird about Saka  

I don't get it. He's one of my favourite players to watch in the modern game.

[TalkSport]

Saka has RW on lockdown, then LW there’s plenty that can rotate around with Sterling/Grealish/Rashford and whoever comes along (Sancho too if form regains). None of those names can play centrally and impact games which we lack at times. 

[Heartwork]

33 minutes ago, skybluedave said:

Yeah I'm boycotting it now. Disgraceful tournament

If there's one thing the English are masters of, it's sour grapes.

[skybluedave]

I'm not sold on Foden in the middle yet. Can he press like a centre midfielder? Would like to see him there more for Man City first. He's basically a winger/forward now at club level. You are also newting Bellingham by moving him further back. 

[Smallen]

I would play Foden as an 8 (where Bellingham played) and Bellingham where Henderson played.

Henderson was really good last night, like. 

[Darren Moores Mum]

1 hour ago, TM said:

can't be bothered reading back but did Matterface actually say "England needed a Lineker, instead they got a Waddle" when Kane missed the 2nd penalty?

I'm sure some will have a wee laugh at it but that's disrespectful towards someone who is almost certainly going to becoming the England all time goalscorer and has saved them on numerous occasions.  I watched the BBC replay last night and Mowbray was saying Kane has been England's hero/saviour in the past and didn't deserve it

then again I could just start this with "it's Matterface, he's terrible at his job"

To go back to this I actually feel even more annoyed by his comment now. It's not just hugely disrespectful to England's record goalscorer but for Waddle himself, who was a phenomenal player who's been boiled down to punchline jokes about a penalty from some talentless hack of a commentator. I would say Matterface is the Diana Ross penalty kick of commentators but that would be in itself disrespectful to Diana Ross.

****ing arsehole

[cyclonus1010]

Should be building your attack around Foden for the next 10 years.

Strikes me as a player who will go on to the next level when he is given more responsibility. But has to be centrally. Not as a striker ofc.

[Bigwig]

Could have literally put Kane in central midfield and stuck Wilson or Rashford up front.

The few times when Kane pushed forward he looked dangerous, but then spent most of the time dropping deep. 

[PaulHartman71]

I do wonder if instead of putting Sterling on given how the game was going and we were chasing a goal we could’ve put Callum Wilson on our wide on the right. Was a physical game and his strength and speed could’ve been handy, plus another threat from a set piece. 

[Coulthard's Jaw]

When has Wilson ever played wide right?

[Smallen]

Steve Bruce played Miguel Almiron as a false 9 and Wilson wide right once

[Jeroen Thijssen]

1 hour ago, Smallen said:

“you got two penalties, can’t complain!!!” is one of the dumbest arguments I’ve heard.

Can't complain that much. At least get your quote right.

First goal simply nothing wrong with that. First penalty, while it was one - often doesn't get given So you can't complain much.

Second one was a silly barge, so fine there. From one angle that actually didn't look bad either.  

[_mxrky]

11 minutes ago, cyclonus1010 said:

Should be building your attack around Foden for the next 10 years.

Strikes me as a player who will go on to the next level when he is given more responsibility. But has to be centrally. Not as a striker ofc.

Then he actually has to learn how to play as a midfielder. 

[Darren Moores Mum]

4 minutes ago, Jeroen Thijssen said:

Can't complain that much. At least get your quote right.

First goal simply nothing wrong with that. First penalty, while it was one - often doesn't get given So you can't complain much.

Second one was a silly barge, so fine there. From one angle that actually didn't look bad either.  

You've just made up that it often doesn't get given, haven't you? Absolutely no way that "often doesn't get given" FFS.

 

[Jeroen Thijssen]

Just now, ginnybob said:

You've just made up that it often doesn't get given, haven't you? Absolutely no way that "often doesn't get given" FFS.

 

Well OK, fine. Then it does. I wouldn't have given it, definitely not initially. 

[Smallen]

 

Saying you wouldn't have given this says a lot about your judgement

[ArsenalFan7]

And people wonder why Arsenal fans get annoyed about the treatment Saka gets dished out by referees. Guy is brilliant and doesn’t get his rewards.

This is why you have players like Zaha lashing out because the full backs only defence is kicking them.

[Baptista_8]

Was that Upamecano giving away the pen as well? I've lost count of how many yellows he should have had last night. Absolute donkey and if that was him, that should have been his second yellow at least.

[Jeroen Thijssen]

4 minutes ago, Smallen said:

 

Saying you wouldn't have given this says a lot about your judgement

That's not the one I'm talking about. I mean the one where Kane wins a penalty on the edge of the box. (The first one that was given)

[Smallen]

Just now, Baptista_8 said:

Was that Upamecano giving away the pen as well? I've lost count of how many yellows he should have had last night. Absolute donkey and if that was him, that should have been his second yellow at least.

Was Tchouaméni

[Baptista_8]

Just now, Smallen said:

Was Tchouaméni

Thanks.

Still should have had two yellows first half for the fouls on Saka and Kane.

[Constantine]

All this banter aside, anyone heard from Rob? 30 pages and can't remember I've seen him post since page 1.

He's like that overly optimistic anime character but I can't help it but feel and cheer for the guy, despite him annoying me a little with some of his opinions on Gareth...

[outlander]

Also, when considering who played better and who deserved the win, you cannot ignore the score situation. 

If the score was 0-0 for most of the match and then France scored a winner in the end, you could say that were lucky and Englayed deserved the win. 

But when France was leading for most of the match, of course they are going to play more defensively. 

 

Yet, both time the score was equal, it was France who scored the goal to lead. It's very harsh to say, they deserved to lose. Draw could sound like a fair result but surely England didn't do enough to say they deserved to win.

Edited December 11, 2022 by outlander

[Toffle]

1 hour ago, Weezer said:

If VAR hadn’t pulled him over to watch it he wouldn’t have given it, he didn’t decide to use VAR.

Luckily, that's how VAR works, it pulls refs over and help them make better decisions. They gave the penalty, no debate.

[Weezer]

Just now, Toffle said:

Luckily, that's how VAR works, it pulls refs over and help them make better decisions. They gave the penalty, no debate.

The debate is that the referee was awful and 'missed' blatant penalties for England.

[skybluedave]

5 minutes ago, Constantine said:

All this banter aside, anyone heard from Rob? 30 pages and can't remember I've seen him post since page 1.

He's like that overly optimistic anime character but I can't help it but feel and cheer for the guy, despite him annoying me a little with some of his opinions on Gareth...

Rob plays up to it massively. I don't know how people still keep falling for it. He's been doing it for years

[caragreg]

Lloris is still the weak point of the French team? 

It's a legend just like Deschamps, Lloris, Varane, Giroud, Griezmann..