[Discussion] Home Screen

[GIMN]

Hello lovely skinning forum folk, - I'm keen to hear everyone's thoughts on the Home screen on FM.

For me a "Home screen" should be a landing page that helps me navigate to important information - that might be bookmarked, recently viewed, or harcoded/set modules - and notifies me of any substantial news/changes and outstanding actions.  I think the biggest problem here, however, is that the game doesn't take you to the home screen immediately after it's finished progressing.  In my opinion that kind of makes the "Home" page redundant, although it might be that my issue is actually that the name "Home" doesn't really serve it's purpose.

So, to all of those who have been so kind to read my musings, I have 3 questions:

• Do you independently navigate to the home screen (e.g. not just when the game opens up on that page)?  If so, how often?
• What do you use the home screen for?
• What would you expect from a home screen/landing page?

[Olas Nick]

recently I see many attempts to change this panel, but all the new panels are much worse than even the stock one. my understanding of the ideal "home" panel is as follows

Spoiler

 

[Tyburn]

Personally I never navigate to this page. I land on it at start up and immediately move off it, without barely looking at it. I go to it to look at my manager profile, but again, it’s just an added “click” to get to the info I want.

It’s a useful overview page if I haven’t logged onto a save in a while, but as that is rare, I find the page largely redundant as the info displayed there can be found elsewhere. If I want to see the league table I click on the league. If I want finances, I click on finances. If I want to see who I’m playing next, I go to schedule. Etc.

As to what could be shown or useful there? It’s a question that has stumped me for years.

Just my opinions, of course, and not particularly helpful. I’ve contemplated removing it from my skin entirely, but I quite like the stadium picture I’ve added to the next fixture area 😊

[GIMN]

12 minutes ago, Olas Nick said:

recently I see many attempts to change this panel, but all the new panels are much worse than even the stock one. my understanding of the ideal "home" panel is as follows

  Hide contents

 

I remember doing a poll last year to see what people considered "vital", but unfortunately didn't get many responses. I always think it's interesting to see how different people find different users for something.

If I can ask another question - using the training information as an example: When you want to see training information, do you go to the Home Page, or do you go to the Training Page?

[Olas Nick]

Training Page

[GIMN]

3 minutes ago, Tyburn said:

Personally I never navigate to this page. I land on it at start up and immediately move off it, without barely looking at it. I go to it to look at my manager profile, but again, it’s just an added “click” to get to the info I want.

It’s a useful overview page if I haven’t logged onto a save in a while, but as that is rare, I find the page largely redundant as the info displayed there can be found elsewhere. If I want to see the league table I click on the league. If I want finances, I click on finances. If I want to see who I’m playing next, I go to schedule. Etc.

As to what could be shown or useful there? It’s a question that has stumped me for years.

Just my opinions, of course, and not particularly helpful. I’ve contemplated removing it from my skin entirely, but I quite like the stadium picture I’ve added to the next fixture area 😊

I thought about removing it, too, and seeing if there was a way to rename the section My Profile in the sidebar. 

I also find I'm more likely to go to a dedicated page for information, but that brings up the question: why? Why do I decide to go to schedule for information that is present on the Home Page - especially when the home page might have other useful information I can access without having to navigate further? 

Is it because it doesn't cross my mind to check the Home Page?  Is it because the Home Page feels cluttered and difficult to digest? Is it because the Home Page contains snippets and there's not enough detail for it to be useful? Is it something else altogether?

I don't think it's possible to do what I'd like to via skinning, and might be something for the Feature requests section, but keen to hear people's opinions of the page and ignoring the limitations currently in game what they'd like to see.

[GIMN]

16 minutes ago, Olas Nick said:

Training Page

Do you think there's something that would make it better for you to go to Home Page instead?  (Ignoring the limitations of whether it would actually be possible )

[Olas Nick]

Just now, GIMN said:

Do you think there's something that would make it better for you to go to Home Page instead?  (Ignoring the limitations of whether it would actually be possible )

when I go to the Training panel, I'm interested in sections Units, Mentoring, Individual and Coaches. they just can't be put on Home. or this possible? according to this approach, in general, all panels can be placed in the home panel
sections Schedules and Rest I only use when correcting white text
and the Overview and Calendar panels I use through Inbox

[GIMN]

5 minutes ago, Olas Nick said:

when I go to the Training panel, I'm interested in sections Units, Mentoring, Individual and Coaches. they just can't be put on Home. or this possible? according to this approach, in general, all panels can be placed in the home panel
sections Schedules and Rest I only use when correcting white text
and the Overview and Calendar panels I use through Inbox

Technically, that might be possible actually.  Using selectors and finding the right widget/container classes.  It's how I got the full month training calendar onto the Home Page, and I've also used it to grab the upcoming fixtures from the Rest panel (I like that particular layout).

Just done something very quickly (so haven't put any effort into making it look right):

The particular code for the selector panels:

<!--REST PANEL-->
<widget class="team_training_rest_panel" id="TeTR" section="TeTR" late_loading="true"  valid_for_international_teams="true" valid_for_international_youth_teams="true" valid_for_fmc="true" valid_for_unemployed_manager="true">
  <translation id="title" type="use" value="Thing" />
</widget>

<!--FULL TRAINING CALENDAR-->
<widget class="team_training_calendar_panel" id="tsBr" section="ttcP" late_loading="true" valid_for_international_teams="false" valid_for_international_youth_teams="false" valid_for_fmc="false" valid_for_unemployed_manager="false">
  <translation id="title" translation_id="466488" type="use" value="Training Calendar" />
</widget>

Most of the section IDs can be found in sidebar sections.xml - whilst the classes might be mentioned somewhere.  Sometimes it's just as simple as the xml name it's pointing towards, but not always.

[Olas Nick]

 

but its not Home panel, this is modified Training panel

[wkdsoul]

I got his on the home panel for training, the page changes with the player selected on the left panel as normal.

[GIMN]

27 minutes ago, wkdsoul said:

I got his on the home panel for training, the page changes with the player selected on the left panel as normal.

Looks very nice.  I think the home page looks a lot nicer there where it focuses on fewer bits of information at a time.  I'd love to know your opinion on the questions:

• Do you independently navigate to the home screen (e.g. not just when the game opens up on that page)?  If so, how often?
• What do you use the home screen for?
• What would you expect from a home screen/landing page?

[wkdsoul]

Depends on the save.  If im on a youth development i'll keep the training under my control and use that mostly on the home page.  If a general save just the squad happiness and finances etc 

[Zoolander23]

I personally use the home screen to prepare the next game. So I set it up with standings, upcoming games, opponent analysis, training performances and finances. 
(Yes, I use a mix of panels from different skins for personal use )

[GIMN]

26 minutes ago, Zoolander23 said:

I personally use the home screen to prepare the next game. So I set it up with standings, upcoming games, opponent analysis, training performances and finances. 
(Yes, I use a mix of panels from different skins for personal use )

I like that set-up!  Is there something about the Home Page that makes it easier for you to prepare than using the Data Hub?

[Zoolander23]

11 minuti fa, GIMN ha scritto:

I like that set-up!  Is there something about the Home Page that makes it easier for you to prepare than using the Data Hub?

I find the Data Hub too dispersive. There are so many notions - useful but perhaps too many - and I struggle to quickly identify the most important ones. I tend to prefer simpler panels, where all information can fit on a single screen.
I use the Data Hub every 4-5 matches as a kind of monthly analysis 

 

[GIMN]

21 minutes ago, Zoolander23 said:

I find the Data Hub too dispersive. There are so many notions - useful but perhaps too many - and I struggle to quickly identify the most important ones. I tend to prefer simpler panels, where all information can fit on a single screen.
I use the Data Hub every 4-5 matches as a kind of monthly analysis 

 

That is understandable.  Do you find the other information in the Home Page helps you prepare, too (such as the upcoming fixtures information or the league table)?

[Zoolander23]

32 minuti fa, GIMN ha scritto:

That is understandable.  Do you find the other information in the Home Page helps you prepare, too (such as the upcoming fixtures information or the league table)?

Yes, absolutely. In this way I have a complete overview of the calendar of upcoming matches, the entire league table and injuries. For example, I don't like home screens that don't show the league table in full, because it gives me the feeling that I do not have a complete picture of the league

[_Ben_]

This is my homepage right now. I find it very little use to be honest so have just added one tab for a screen that I tend not to visit very often, to make it easier to access. In terms of what I'd expect - I'd want to navigate to it every time processing stops and then use it as a hub to get elsewhere, quite similar to your 'buttons' but it just feels like an extra thing that isn't really of use to me at present. 

Edited December 27, 2022 by _Ben_

[GIMN]

5 minutes ago, _Ben_ said:

This is my homepage right now. I find it very little use to be honest so have just added one tab for a screen that I tend not to visit very often, to make it easier to access. In terms of what I'd expect - I'd want to navigate to it every time processing stops and then use it as a hub to get elsewhere, quite similar to your 'buttons' but it just feels like an extra thing that isn't really of use to me at present. 

It feels like such wasted potential.  The Home Page is one of the few locations where you can easily bring together information from a variety of different places, but the more I think about it, the more I realise I rarely access it deliberately.  There's no real point in speculating, but I'll do so anyway - I think it's partly because of the Inbox.  This becomes the focus more often because this is where your updates are found, and subsequently takes attention away from a potentially more useful screen.  Maybe my issue is actually the inbox.

For example, I like what you've done here - it helps bring the game world into view which is something I think the game does really badly.  A lot of your interaction is focused internally, and so it can be difficult to look at how the world is developing alongside your career.

I know it's not possible from a skinning standpoint, but I think I'd be keen on seeing the Inbox relegated to being an archive of information, and centring the updates within the Home Page so it can serve as more of a hub to your experience.  I'm going majorly off topic, though.

 

[Jellico73]

Here's what I am looking for in a home page:

Player stats

League Standing

Current Injuries

Next opponent, preferably with formation, tactical style, previous records, etc

Finance and salary with regards to available transfer money and salary, I don't need the huge graph

Training

I do like the layout Mustermann has now, but I think it could be tweaked.  But I am also a proponent of less is more, and would prefer like 7 widgets (like 3 medium ones on each side of a large one in the center) I cant choose to display multiple things on as opposed to 20 widgets all crammed on a page.

Jellico

[GIMN]

4 hours ago, Jellico73 said:

Here's what I am looking for in a home page:

Player stats

League Standing

Current Injuries

Next opponent, preferably with formation, tactical style, previous records, etc

Finance and salary with regards to available transfer money and salary, I don't need the huge graph

Training

I do like the layout Mustermann has now, but I think it could be tweaked.  But I am also a proponent of less is more, and would prefer like 7 widgets (like 3 medium ones on each side of a large one in the center) I cant choose to display multiple things on as opposed to 20 widgets all crammed on a page.

Jellico

On a Mustermann front, I am stripping it back a bit - I don't think I'm ever going to be truly happy with whatever I settle on.

From a more genereal standpoint, do you find yourself actively navigating to the Home Page?  Do you switch between widgets, or set them up once and stick to them (until the game decides to reset some panels)?

[Jellico73]

3 minutes ago, GIMN said:

On a Mustermann front, I am stripping it back a bit - I don't think I'm ever going to be truly happy with whatever I settle on.

From a more genereal standpoint, do you find yourself actively navigating to the Home Page?  Do you switch between widgets, or set them up once and stick to them (until the game decides to reset some panels)?

Usually I set them up and leave them, but there are times when I want to look at something and instead of navigating to the page and then the tab it's easier to hit the widget.  I use the home page a lot actually.  

[GIMN]

1 minute ago, Jellico73 said:

Usually I set them up and leave them, but there are times when I want to look at something and instead of navigating to the page and then the tab it's easier to hit the widget.  I use the home page a lot actually.  

Ignoring what you know about what is available/possible on FM - is there any information you think should be present or available on the Home Page?

[Olas Nick]

13 hours ago, Zoolander23 said:

I personally use the home screen to prepare the next game.

until fm21 there was a button Next match for that and nothing better has yet been invented
her code is still in sidebar sections.xml but it doesn't work
I tried to figure it out a bit, but there is no time

[Jellico73]

Schedule, Injuries, next opponent, player stats, League Table, budget, training for the week you are in.

If the League table, which I would want to make the biggest one, also had the option to display Team Performance graphs, competitions, and contracts, I'd be OK with that.

Something like this:

 

[_Ben_]

2 hours ago, Olas Nick said:

until fm21 there was a button Next match for that and nothing better has yet been invented
her code is still in sidebar sections.xml but it doesn't work
I tried to figure it out a bit, but there is no time

Do you (or anyone with fm21 installed) have a screenshot of that please? I can’t remember what it looked like. 

[EnigMattic1]

3 hours ago, Jellico73 said:

Schedule, Injuries, next opponent, player stats, League Table, budget, training for the week you are in.

If the League table, which I would want to make the biggest one, also had the option to display Team Performance graphs, competitions, and contracts, I'd be OK with that.

Something like this:

 

I've been trying to get the training part onto my home panel, but I can't find the code that works. I have found "widget" code, but I need it as a container so I can 'tab' it.

[Olas Nick]

5 hours ago, _Ben_ said:

Do you (or anyone with fm21 installed) have a screenshot of that please? I can’t remember what it looked like. 

default skin fm19

Spoiler

 

[Olas Nick]

I thought maybe you could use bookmarks to save space... in the pre-alpha version it looks like this maybe someone will be interested in the idea and make it okay
for example, it can be done with a narrow panel from the right edge

Spoiler

 

[GIMN]

22 minutes ago, Olas Nick said:

I thought maybe you could use bookmarks to save space... in the pre-alpha version it looks like this maybe someone will be interested in the idea and make it okay
for example, it can be done with a narrow panel from the right edge

  Reveal hidden contents

 

That would have probably been a much easier solution than what I went with.  I basically created a load of link buttons with a selector.  I suppose it comes with the added advantage of being able to fit it horizontally, and not having to go through and individually bookmark.

[GIMN]

9 hours ago, EnigMattic1 said:

I've been trying to get the training part onto my home panel, but I can't find the code that works. I have found "widget" code, but I need it as a container so I can 'tab' it.

I might have misunderstood what you meant, but have you tried directing the tab to a selector with just the training part you want?

[EnigMattic1]

6 minutes ago, GIMN said:

I might have misunderstood what you meant, but have you tried directing the tab to a selector with just the training part you want?

If you look in the top right corner of the home screen, training as a selector works. But, I want it as a tab in the main part of the home screen:

This is the code I have for that particular tab:

<!-- Training -->
                        <container  id="SUBP" >
                            <layout class="arrange_vertical_attachment" layout="-1" offset="0" gap="4"/>
                            <layout class="stick_to_sides_attachment" alignment="horizontal" apply_to_children="true" inset="0" />
                            <translation id="title" translation_id="248422" type="use" value="Training[COMMENT; training section of player profile]" />
                            <widget class="training_overview_panel" file="human/tcs/selector/training" id="tstr" section="TeOv" late_loading="true" valid_for_international_teams="false" valid_for_international_youth_teams="false" valid_for_fmc="false" valid_for_unemployed_manager="false">                    
                            </widget> 
                        </container>

[GIMN]

46 minutes ago, EnigMattic1 said:

If you look in the top right corner of the home screen, training as a selector works. But, I want it as a tab in the main part of the home screen:

This is the code I have for that particular tab:

<!-- Training -->
                        <container  id="SUBP" >
                            <layout class="arrange_vertical_attachment" layout="-1" offset="0" gap="4"/>
                            <layout class="stick_to_sides_attachment" alignment="horizontal" apply_to_children="true" inset="0" />
                            <translation id="title" translation_id="248422" type="use" value="Training[COMMENT; training section of player profile]" />
                            <widget class="training_overview_panel" file="human/tcs/selector/training" id="tstr" section="TeOv" late_loading="true" valid_for_international_teams="false" valid_for_international_youth_teams="false" valid_for_fmc="false" valid_for_unemployed_manager="false">                    
                            </widget> 
                        </container>

How I go about this (this is almost certainly NOT the most efficient way):

<!--TABS-->
<container class="tabbed_container" id="mmstc" save_session_state="true" default_item="hsl9" default_width="-3" minimum_width="760" priority="1">
  <layout class="stick_to_sides_attachment" alignment="all" apply_to_children="true" inset="0" />

	<!--ALL YOUR OTHER LOVELY TABS HERE, TOO-->
  
  <container class="client_object_viewer_selector_panel" id="hs01" file="human/training selector" default_item="tstr" save_session_state="true" dont_set_embedded_title="true" priority="1" navigation_container="true">
    <translation id="title" translation_id="248422" type="use" value="Training[COMMENT; training section of player profile]" />
    <integer id="default_for_unemployed_managers" value="tstr"/>
    <integer id="default_for_international_managers_other_team" value="tstr"/>
    <integer id="default_for_everyone_else" value="tstr"/>
    <integer id="default_for_versus_mode" value="tstr"/>
  </container>
</container>

Then you create a file called training selector.xml:

<panel navigation_container="true">
  <container id="SUBP" class="inner_box_no_margin" >
    <layout class="stick_to_sides_attachment" alignment="all" apply_to_children="true" inset="8" />
    <layout class="stick_to_sides_attachment" alignment="all" inset="0" />
  </container>

  <widget class="training_overview_panel" file="human/manager home training panel" id="tstr" section="TeOv" late_loading="true" valid_for_international_teams="false" valid_for_international_youth_teams="false" valid_for_fmt="false" valid_for_unemployed_manager="false">
    <translation id="title" translation_id="248422" type="use" value="Training[COMMENT; training section of player profile]" />
  </widget>

</panel>

And voila (ignore the white text on grey background, I just quickly threw this together for illustration with the file that would be referenced on the base skin):

Edited December 28, 2022 by GIMN

[Olas Nick]

8 hours ago, GIMN said:

And voila

it would be ideal if SI designers finally understood that drop-down menus are absolute garbage and replaced them with tab menus

[GIMN]

17 minutes ago, Olas Nick said:

it would be ideal if SI designers finally understood that drop-down menus are absolute garbage and replaced them with tab menus

I disagree.  Each has a purpose and a place.

Drop-downs are great for customisation - when there are lots of options but you are going to set something once and it will stay like that most of the time (of course, it would help if they didn't keep resetting!!).  Tabs are great when you need to switch between information which isn't too closely connected.  Although, that doesn't mean SI get it right with choosing which one to use!

[Olas Nick]

7 minutes ago, GIMN said:

Drop-downs are great for customisation

I think the need for customization is only a consequence of the impossibility of fast navigation using drop-down menus

for example the tab-menu in the player overview has effectively made all the drop down menus in this section unnecessary, it also solves the problem of not having enough space to display some panels properly

[EnigMattic1]

10 hours ago, GIMN said:

How I go about this (this is almost certainly NOT the most efficient way):

<!--TABS-->
<container class="tabbed_container" id="mmstc" save_session_state="true" default_item="hsl9" default_width="-3" minimum_width="760" priority="1">
  <layout class="stick_to_sides_attachment" alignment="all" apply_to_children="true" inset="0" />

	<!--ALL YOUR OTHER LOVELY TABS HERE, TOO-->
  
  <container class="client_object_viewer_selector_panel" id="hs01" file="human/training selector" default_item="tstr" save_session_state="true" dont_set_embedded_title="true" priority="1" navigation_container="true">
    <translation id="title" translation_id="248422" type="use" value="Training[COMMENT; training section of player profile]" />
    <integer id="default_for_unemployed_managers" value="tstr"/>
    <integer id="default_for_international_managers_other_team" value="tstr"/>
    <integer id="default_for_everyone_else" value="tstr"/>
    <integer id="default_for_versus_mode" value="tstr"/>
  </container>
</container>

Then you create a file called training selector.xml:

<panel navigation_container="true">
  <container id="SUBP" class="inner_box_no_margin" >
    <layout class="stick_to_sides_attachment" alignment="all" apply_to_children="true" inset="8" />
    <layout class="stick_to_sides_attachment" alignment="all" inset="0" />
  </container>

  <widget class="training_overview_panel" file="human/manager home training panel" id="tstr" section="TeOv" late_loading="true" valid_for_international_teams="false" valid_for_international_youth_teams="false" valid_for_fmt="false" valid_for_unemployed_manager="false">
    <translation id="title" translation_id="248422" type="use" value="Training[COMMENT; training section of player profile]" />
  </widget>

</panel>

And voila (ignore the white text on grey background, I just quickly threw this together for illustration with the file that would be referenced on the base skin):

That worked. Thanks for the help.

[PequenoGenio]

This is what i like to see in my home screen:


Usin'g the same from this:

Really like the home screen and the manager profile

[GIMN]

12 hours ago, PequenoGenio said:

This is what i like to see in my home screen:


Usin'g the same from this:

Really like the home screen and the manager profile

Do you actively visit the homepage?  E.g. do you click on the link to check the information there, or only check it when the game finishes processing?

[PequenoGenio]

Always go here to check the info. (teams stats, injuries, promises and training perf. are the most "checked" infos)

Edited December 29, 2022 by PequenoGenio

[AsMenthol]

This is what i like to see in my home screen and next opponent info is most valuable for me to preparation (just 1 click to home screen).. 

[Olas Nick]

On 28/12/2022 at 23:26, Olas Nick said:

I thought maybe you could use bookmarks to save space... in the pre-alpha version it looks like this maybe someone will be interested in the idea and make it okay
for example, it can be done with a narrow panel from the right edge

  Reveal hidden contents

 

unacceptable. bookmarks exist only during the session. when you close the game they disappear. і don't understand why such functionality is needed

[JustHowie]

25 minutes ago, Olas Nick said:

unacceptable. bookmarks exist only during the session. when you close the game they disappear. і don't understand why such functionality is needed

I've not checked but I have seen a youtuber using a sas skin and he has bookmarks on the left using the space under the usual menus 8n the side bar and his always seem to be there 

 

5 hours ago, AsMenthol said:

This is what i like to see in my home screen and next opponent info is most valuable for me to preparation (just 1 click to home screen).. 

I like this but I'm more inclined to go with dynamics / promises where the head to head is 

[_Ben_]

2 hours ago, JustHowie said:

I've not checked but I have seen a youtuber using a sas skin and he has bookmarks on the left using the space under the usual menus 8n the side bar and his always seem to be there 

@GIMNand I played with adding ‘permanent’ bookmarks to the sidebar. You can link anything but not when you’re in the inbox and it slows everything down, massively. 

On my list to return to, though. 

[Olas Nick]

7 minutes ago, _Ben_ said:

I played with adding ‘permanent’ bookmarks to the sidebar.

I also tried creating permalinks in the sidebar but it works weird. sometimes it goes to the right page, sometimes you specify to go to one page and it goes to another, sometimes it goes to a blank page

[snowofman]

5 hours ago, JustHowie said:

I've not checked but I have seen a youtuber using a sas skin and he has bookmarks on the left using the space under the usual menus 8n the side bar and his always seem to be there 

 

You are correct, the bookmarks he uses in the skin, stays until removed. even if the game is closed and you can have other bookmarks for other saves

 

 

2 hours ago, _Ben_ said:

@GIMNand I played with adding ‘permanent’ bookmarks to the sidebar. You can link anything but not when you’re in the inbox and it slows everything down, massively. 

Not sure what you guys have been trying, but bookmarks in the sidebar works just fine, i made a bookmark menu for someone here in the forum some time ( can't remember who)

 

Edited December 30, 2022 by snowofman

[_Ben_]

37 minutes ago, snowofman said:

Not sure what you guys have been trying, but bookmarks in the sidebar works just fine, i made a bookmark menu for someone here in the forum some time ( can't remember who)

I had this setup for the sidebar with icons that led to specific screens I wanted to access quicker, but it just is incredibly slow to navigate anywhere in game now...

[snowofman]

15 minutes ago, _Ben_ said:

I had this setup for the sidebar with icons that led to specific screens I wanted to access quicker, but it just is incredibly slow to navigate anywhere in game now...

okay, can't say if something has happend to bookmarks, when i made the sidebar menu is was fine.

Tho very limited in what could be changed. But that may come down to limited knowledge

did you use the build in bookmarks or made something new ? 

i would defo be interested in looking at it, maybe tehre is something to be learned

 

[Olas Nick]

39 minutes ago, snowofman said:

Not sure what you guys have been trying, but bookmarks in the sidebar works just fine

ah, that's my error. bookmarks are indeed saved inside the save and remain when you exit the game.
but in my opinion they are not suitable for use on the sidebar. because if you don't have an ultrawide screen, you can only play with the sidebar in "icons only" mode
but on the home page, I can allocate a place for a container with bookmarks. I'm now thinking where and how so as not to harm other containers.