How bad is leaving team training to your assman?

[Konfuchie]

There is a lot of talk about training schedules but I'm not a kind of person that is eager to download someone else's work and blindly plug it in.

I didn't like the training change when it came (it was needed but the solution they came up with I dislike) and I always leave it to the assistant manager.

My player growth is fair, especially if they play.

But am I making a huge mistake for longer term progress?

Recently I came across 2 YouTube videos about training schedules. One claimed that his custom training schedule outperformed assman 4 times in CA growth over a season. But it was done without controlled conditions with 2 completely different teams in every way and most importantly in terms of PA and room for growth and it was just donr over one season.

Second video was a huge experiment done by statistics nerd in controlled conditions that gave a ton of data and basically he brought the schedule down to 3 sessions: attacking, resistance and match practice ONLY. He compared it than to 4 most popular training schedules online and outperfmed or matched them in pretty much everything.

This leaves me confused. What do you think I should do with team training?

[Maviarab]

Go with EBTS.

if can't be bothered with that then sure go with Ass Man...nothing wrong with being more hands-off.  Whatever rmakes your game play more enjoyable.

[rinso]

I leave general team training to assman but take control of individual trainin to hone them in their roles.. ofc, it does depend on the stature of club you're at.. 

 

[Matt ex SEGA]

Ever since there's been an option to leave it to AssMan, I have. My players develop fine for the most part.  I tend to look after their individual training to try to help them succeed in my system but the team stuff I couldn't ever really be bothered with.

 

My assumption is that he does an OK job, its probably possible to optimize, but its not that interesting so I don't.

[FrazT]

Yeah- just leave it to the AM if you have a good set of coaches- I suspect that they are more important than the schedules.

[BayernMB]

On 07/03/2023 at 00:49, rinso said:

I leave general team training to assman but take control of individual trainin to hone them in their roles.. ofc, it does depend on the stature of club you're at.. 

 

Same here... works just fine.

[Garethjohn79]

Just tried out Rugby Union manager, where all training can be allocated to a staff member, with a head coach organising the training schedule. and then each specialist concentrates on their task. 

[eXistenZ]

I would trust a kid with a knife and an electrical outlet more than id trust the assman. He'l likely  shedule heavy physical training in the middle of march.

If you want another example of his incompetence, just check the coaches workload. When you ask him to assign it, you're defo missing out on stars/workload then when you do it manually.

 

Just download a few shedules from BTN or RDF and plug those in. not too much work

[Maviarab]

20 minutes ago, eXistenZ said:

I would trust a kid with a knife and an electrical outlet more than id trust the assman.

Hahahahah...brilliant!

[shirajzl]

Training is one of the things in FM that work just fine if you don't touch it, i.e. if you delegate. Sure, the AI won't optimize it, but I've never seen it do disastrously.

The same applies to press conferences and team talks, btw. People sometimes say that assman ruins your team morale that way, but I've never seen it in all the years of playing FM, ever since those mechanics were introduced. If you got transfers and tactics spot on, no amount of bad team talks can ruin your success long term.

Moreover, it's been documented (e.g. on various YT channels etc.) that you can just employ a director of football and leave EVERYTHING (signing all the staff etc.) to him and you'll do just fine, even in non-league.

If you want to delve into it for immersion, that's fine, but if you don't want to, you can leave it to the AI and you won't suffer the consequences.

Editado 9 de Marzo del 2023 por shirajzl

[Mars_Blackmon]

I leave it because I don’t want an extra advantage over the AI. Bad enough it doesn’t seem like they developed players well…

[Daniel Evensen]

If you want to min/max training, pay attention to Evidence Based Football Manager.  His methodology is second to none, and his training schedule is without a doubt the best I've ever used in Football Manager.  I've got fewer injuries than ever before, my young players are progressing like crazy, and my team has won 29 straight.

The reason why assman training works well is because he gives players enough rest.  Most of the hyped-up training schedules you see are based on gut feeling and emotion rather than on actual evidence, and tend to overwork players as a result.  Again, go watch Max's videos with EBFM and you'll see why really quickly.

Editado 10 de Marzo del 2023 por Daniel Evensen
Formatting - I forgot this isn't Reddit, lol

[Daniel Evensen]

19 hours ago, Mars_Blackmon said:

I leave it because I don’t want an extra advantage over the AI. Bad enough it doesn’t seem like they developed players well…

You probably should look into using Daveincid's Realism pack if you haven't already.  In FM23, player development issues aren't because the AI doesn't know how to train.  They seem to be due to how player reputation works, which is convincing the AI to not give young players the game time they need to develop.

 

Editado 10 de Marzo del 2023 por Daniel Evensen
Formatting again. I need more sleep.

[Siven]

One thing i noticed with most of youtube vids on training schedules is that they dont give enough rest to players. They seem to focus on stat growth and forget that fatigue is a thing. 

[Mars_Blackmon]

2 hours ago, Daniel Evensen said:

You probably should look into using Daveincid's Realism pack if you haven't already.  In FM23, player development issues aren't because the AI doesn't know how to train.  They seem to be due to how player reputation works, which is convincing the AI to not give young players the game time they need to develop.

 

I’ve been using it since it was started. The rep thing is just another layer of the development issue, still the AI will not maximize training to get the best results and that’s an advantage for the user, unless the AI gets a “cheat” to level the playing field.

[Daniel Evensen]

That's a good observation, @Mars_Blackmon... Do you know of any "cheats" to help the AI out with better training?  Is it something that can actually be done in the pregame editor?

[kingjericho]

I set individual training myself but general training is for the Ass Man. Honestly I don't even really know how training works since it was revamped.

[Mars_Blackmon]

1 hour ago, Daniel Evensen said:

That's a good observation, @Mars_Blackmon... Do you know of any "cheats" to help the AI out with better training?  Is it something that can actually be done in the pregame editor?

Not that I know of but I was speaking about code. Some games let’s the AI take short cuts to even the playing for the user.

[Conardo]

If you want it done right, do it yourself (if you have the time)....

[eXistenZ]

22 hours ago, Siven said:

One thing i noticed with most of youtube vids on training schedules is that they dont give enough rest to players. They seem to focus on stat growth and forget that fatigue is a thing. 

i guess that depends on which YT you watch. I use downloaded shedule and i dont suffer many injuries.

 

Id go so far to argue that leaving training to the assman is kinda asking for injuries. As said, he is likely to shedule heavy physical training in the middle of march....

[dunk105]

I find it fine leaving it to him but do always make sure after games its set to one session of recovery, and also a team review session.

I also tweak during times of fixture congestion to ensure there arent too many physical sessions in 2 or 3 game weeks.

[rsihn]

On 06/03/2023 at 15:19, Konfuchie said:

There is a lot of talk about training schedules but I'm not a kind of person that is eager to download someone else's work and blindly plug it in.

I didn't like the training change when it came (it was needed but the solution they came up with I dislike) and I always leave it to the assistant manager.

My player growth is fair, especially if they play.

But am I making a huge mistake for longer term progress?

Recently I came across 2 YouTube videos about training schedules. One claimed that his custom training schedule outperformed assman 4 times in CA growth over a season. But it was done without controlled conditions with 2 completely different teams in every way and most importantly in terms of PA and room for growth and it was just donr over one season.

Second video was a huge experiment done by statistics nerd in controlled conditions that gave a ton of data and basically he brought the schedule down to 3 sessions: attacking, resistance and match practice ONLY. He compared it than to 4 most popular training schedules online and outperfmed or matched them in pretty much everything.

This leaves me confused. What do you think I should do with team training?

There isn't a single answer to this as it is dependent on your assman's ability.  A world class assman is very good at picking the right training schedules to properly address the areas that your players are weak in and to continue developing their strengths. I'd even go so far as to say that my best assmen have exceeded my own results but I've found that this quickly diminishes once you are dealing with non-world class staff and you are likely to get much better results than them by doing it yourself.  

[Dirty_ACE]

On 06/03/2023 at 13:32, Maviarab said:

Go with EBTS.

if can't be bothered with that then sure go with Ass Man...nothing wrong with being more hands-off.  Whatever rmakes your game play more enjoyable.

What's EBTS if you don't mind me asking?

[Maviarab]

2 hours ago, Dirty_ACE said:

What's EBTS if you don't mind me asking?

A highly analyticaly based training schedule from Evidence Based Football Manager.

[lee50_11]

On 10/03/2023 at 12:55, Daniel Evensen said:

If you want to min/max training, pay attention to Evidence Based Football Manager.  His methodology is second to none, and his training schedule is without a doubt the best I've ever used in Football Manager.  I've got fewer injuries than ever before, my young players are progressing like crazy, and my team has won 29 straight.

The reason why assman training works well is because he gives players enough rest.  Most of the hyped-up training schedules you see are based on gut feeling and emotion rather than on actual evidence, and tend to overwork players as a result.  Again, go watch Max's videos with EBFM and you'll see why really quickly.

Has he released one or are you making one from his  data?

[Maviarab]

26 minutes ago, lee50_11 said:

Has he released one or are you making one from his  data?

He has released a schedule.

[lee50_11]

2 minutes ago, Maviarab said:

He has released a schedule.

For FM23? I was using his one on 22

[Maviarab]

Works just fine on '23.  He not released a specific '23 one yet to my knowledge.

[lee50_11]

1 minute ago, Maviarab said:

Works just fine on '23.  He not released a specific '23 one yet to my knowledge.

Ok thanks i just watched his latest and he's working on a 23 version.

[Daniel Evensen]

4 hours ago, lee50_11 said:

Has he released one or are you making one from his  data?

He has released one - it's in the link in my post.  If you missed it, here it is again.  The video explains the training schedule, and the link to the file is in the description.

[Daniel Evensen]

3 hours ago, Maviarab said:

Works just fine on '23.  He not released a specific '23 one yet to my knowledge.

I would be extremely surprised if things were different in FM23.  In addition to FM23 and FM22, EBTS also works very well on FM21 and FM20, and I'm guessing it works well on earlier games, too.  In other words, I really don't think Sports Interactive is making super secretive behind-the-scenes changes to how training works.

[Hovis Dexter]

I’ve watched EBFM’s videos and his training schedule is aimed at developing players which is fine but I also want my training to help me win my next match. In my games I enjoy developing players but see my primary task as winning matches. Accordingly, I found the EBTS to be helpful but I don’t see it as the answer to everything.

[lee50_11]

41 minutes ago, Hovis Dexter said:

I’ve watched EBFM’s videos and his training schedule is aimed at developing players which is fine but I also want my training to help me win my next match. In my games I enjoy developing players but see my primary task as winning matches. Accordingly, I found the EBTS to be helpful but I don’t see it as the answer to everything.

From what i've seen from his schedules before is you have space to add in your match specific training and team bonding etc in the available slots it just develops players more efficiently also. 

[Hovis Dexter]

1 hour ago, lee50_11 said:

From what i've seen from his schedules before is you have space to add in your match specific training and team bonding etc in the available slots it just develops players more efficiently also. 

Agree

[achortagus]

For me the meta is EBFM, with some adjustments from ZaZ. 

EBFM has showed us what to select and what not. Also, match prep seems to do no work (even negative some times).

Recovery etc, is not needed. Just adjust the Rest tab as in screenshot. 

I just paste this schedule each week, and make sure to have 2 match practice trainings.

[Hovis Dexter]

1 hour ago, achortagus said:

For me the meta is EBFM, with some adjustments from ZaZ. 

EBFM has showed us what to select and what not. Also, match prep seems to do no work (even negative some times).

Recovery etc, is not needed. Just adjust the Rest tab as in screenshot. 

I just paste this schedule each week, and make sure to have 2 match practice trainings.

 

What's your source for saying that "match prep seems to do no work (even negative some times)." ?

EDIT Please ignore ... just found EBFM's video about this on FM22

Editado 14 de Marzo del 2023 por Hovis Dexter