433 with Halfback

[Het2]

Firstly, apologies for creating yet another 433 thread, however I dont see anyone discussion 433 with a Halfback.

 

Has anyone had much luck this year creating a 433 with a HB?

 

I am a pretty experienced FMer and usually can get my vision of how i would like to play onto the match engine but I am struggling this year. It seems like all the rage this year is IWB and IFB and Liberos. Plus all tactics are ultra attacking with Attacking mentality selected. - Seems like no one uses positive any more?

Anyway, I was hoping for a classic 433 possession that morphs into a 343 with the ball with the DM (HB) dropping between the CBs with the fullbacks pushing up and the wingers tucking in. - Or am dreaming of an outdated build up model that is of 10 years ago with Busquets...hah ?

The issue I am having is that the 'lines' are two rigid - 343 which is porbably why modern 3241 etc. work so well. My issue is that the HB gets the ball and often sees two CMs marked out of the game or are too far.

Long story short... has any had luck with a HB this year which isnt a 4231 ?

Thanks team! 

 

 

 

 

 

[Cloud9]

4 hours ago, Het2 said:

Long story short... has any had luck with a HB this year which isnt a 4231 ?

Thanks team! 

The halfback is a great role, it will just emphasize wing transitions as compared to controlling/building up through the center. I'd recommend going with two very aggressive wingback roles to pair with the HB in a 4-3-3. 

Also, don't feel pressured to play on a specific mentality. I've been playing on "balanced" a lot this year but always enjoy a good "defensive" approach as well. Higher mentalities help the team move the ball forward quickly and take more risks, so it's a much down to the play style you'd like to see on the pitch as anything else. I prefer a lower mentality as it helps my team pick and choose their moments a bit better than playing on "attacking," while allowing more space for in match changes to ramp things up.

Attacking mentalities are a good user friendly option, or if attacking just fits the tactic you're using, as they ensure you're transitioning the ball forward into dangerous areas frequently. Patient approaches have a few more pitfalls but can be just as rewarding with a little time 

Edited April 24 by Cloud9

[NineCloudNine]

I have found that the HB works brilliantly with very aggressive FB/WBs. However, having players in the AML and AMR slots inhibits those fullbacks - they fight for similar positions and get on top of each other, or the WB doesn’t push up as much, cluttering the midfield.

I solved this by using a 4-1-3-2 with two CWBs, the DM as a HB and the middle of  three CMs being an aggressive AP (who is basically a #10 starting deep).

The left and right CMs can be B2B, Carrileros or Mezzalas depending on the patterns you want and the opposition. I like B2Bs for the extreme verticality - counter attacks are awesome!

Almost any combination of support/scorer strikers work.

The HB role here is extremely demanding, basically a CD with playmaking skills. Trained with long passes and switches to wide areas they can become an awesome quarterback.

So not a 4-3-3 strictly, though it attacks with players in similar positions to a 4-3-3 which has wide players tucking in. I’ve just had more success creating that attacking shape with the structure described above than with one that starts as a 4-3-3.

 

Edited April 24 by NineCloudNine

[Safe Hands]

I had some good success at one of my journeyman clubs. Was in Bundesliga 2. Can't remember exact team instructions but I set up with one side with an inverted forward and other side winger with inverted fullback. I had two good ball playing CBS and they really got wide and it looked really good in game. It was like the following

 

GK. Sk (d)

RB wb (s)

Cb and one bpd

Lb iwb (s)

DM hb

Cm dlp (s)

Cm cm (a)

Rw if (a)

St af

Lw w (s)

[NineCloudNine]

The classic Barcelona 4-3-3 with Busquets (one of my all-time favourite players) at HB had a similar back 4 to @Safe Hands - one attacking FB and one IFB.

I have used that in FM too but I find it constrains the structure - you are very tied in to specific roles in specific positions, which means specific players. All very Guardiola-controlly but personally I like a little bit more variety, flexibility, even chaos! and having too many positional rotations limits that.

Edited to add: I also always play with a SK-Attack and train them to try killer balls and long passes. That can be a lot of fun.

Edited April 24 by NineCloudNine

[Safe Hands]

4 hours ago, NineCloudNine said:

The classic Barcelona 4-3-3 with Busquets (one of my all-time favourite players) at HB had a similar back 4 to @Safe Hands - one attacking FB and one IFB.

I have used that in FM too but I find it constrains the structure - you are very tied in to specific roles in specific positions, which means specific players. All very Guardiola-controlly but personally I like a little bit more variety, flexibility, even chaos! and having too many positional rotations limits that.

Edited to add: I also always play with a SK-Attack and train them to try killer balls and long passes. That can be a lot of fun.

I like the 433 as can play around a lot with roles to try different things. Wanted to try and get a Treq working in wide areas but never managed it. 

My favourite formation was 4312 takes me back to Champ man 01/02 the cam with free role was deadly. Not managed to get in working this year.

Like your idea of the SK,never had the player to do it but imagine it looks great in game. 

[Het2]

Thanks for the replies everyone. Good to know people are having success out there. All the tactics I see for 433 use a DM or DLP and usually on support. 

@cloud9 - Was hoping you would provide your thoughts, I see you are very active in the other 433 threads.

@Safe Hands - Interesting take, I hadnt thought of using a more cautious fullback on one side. The rest of your roles are actually very similar to mine.

To help with the issue of there being three horizontal lines '343' in build up. I have played with the idea of my RWB being inverted and sits in the hole where the HB drops out of of. This in turn creates space for my winger on the right side. Creating sort of a 3133 in build up. But wanted this to be more situational rather than the go to. 

Have had some success but only on the attacking mentality and winning games like 4-2. Wanting a less chaotic approach hah. Will try on balance and get back to everyone here.

[warlock]

If you haven't already read it, this thread is worth studying for alternatives to the usual 'meta' tactic approach:

There's some 433 discussion in there, too.

[Het2]

7 hours ago, Safe Hands said:

I had some good success at one of my journeyman clubs. Was in Bundesliga 2. Can't remember exact team instructions but I set up with one side with an inverted forward and other side winger with inverted fullback. I had two good ball playing CBS and they really got wide and it looked really good in game. It was like the following

 

GK. Sk (d)

RB wb (s)

Cb and one bpd

Lb iwb (s)

DM hb

Cm dlp (s)

Cm cm (a)

Rw if (a)

St af

Lw w (s)

This is actually very similar to what I was building! Can I ask if what mentality you used? Was it possession based or more direct ?

[Cloud9]

3 hours ago, Het2 said:

@cloud9 - Was hoping you would provide your thoughts, I see you are very active in the other 433 threads..

The big change is how it will operate in a pivot in terms of rotations or lack there of, but in a 4-3-3 or a diamond you're going to see it play similarly to previous versions. In a 4-3-3, in possession he's going to drop back between the centerbacks and out of possession he's going to operate as an aggressive sweeper stepping into the space in front of him.

• The HB will push the CB's wide and your two wingbacks forward. If he plays the ball short to the CBs it will almost always progress down the wings. Roles like the CAR can help cover the aggressive wingback choices.
• Even a double WB(s) will see fairly aggressive wingback play due to this rotation back.
• I would suggest the biggest difference to a HB system would be the use of BPD or CD. CD's will see a lot of wing play, good BPD who can carry the ball can see more dynamic build up phases. 

I see people saying what works and work doesn't work with the HB. I'm not sure if I agree with a lot of those statements. There's no problem having wide attackers in a HB system and players combining in the same space is actually a plus. It's only when players are attempting to move into the same channel or make the same goal scoring run that you can run into redundancies. The role has been a powerful choice with the right profile player over the past few versions and that hasn't changed this FM. You could play it in a direct counter attack or a more progressive system with plenty of success. Again the use of BPD who can carry the ball or CD who will just lay off simple passes will dictate a lot of your 4-3-3 halfback plays out. 

3 hours ago, Het2 said:

To help with the issue of there being three horizontal lines '343' in build up. I have played with the idea of my RWB being inverted and sits in the hole where the HB drops out of of. This in turn creates space for my winger on the right side. Creating sort of a 3133 in build up. But wanted this to be more situational rather than the go to. 

You could also try utilizing a HB in a 3-4-2-1, if you don't like the 4-2-3-1.

If you wanted to try to make something like you mention work I would recommend putting together a tactic, testing it out and having people look at it. 

[Het2]

Cheers Cloud9, your input is always great.

I actually am running one CD and one BPD and like you say the build up sees the BPD carry the the ball into midfield with the HB below him. 

Been after more possession so dropped to balance and things are looking pretty good in this new set up - image below. I get to about the 70th minute and I am 1-0 up then will concede despite having 60%+ possession all game. I then revert back to to my chaotic system of this formation and try nab a win. 

I have found lifting the tempo and/or passing into space how get more creativity out of the team. 

Do a QPR save every year and this now my 3rd and longest time I have spent in the championship without being promoted 

EDIT: Well well well, not bad! Just had a 10 game unbeaten streak come to an end since I switched to this. Defintiyl not a perfect tactic, really had to grind some results but promising. Knocked out EPL Hull from the cup too

Edited April 25 by Het2

[Dr Naysay]

Not allowed to link it here but our very own @Rashididid a great video on his YouTube channel specifically on the HB in FM24 and how dynamic it can be in various systems.

[Delicate Dave]

I use a halfback at the moment but I play either a 4-1-2-2-1, 4-1-2-1-1

I play the WB of attack, CWB on attack or support. The thing I might do that makes this work for me is in player instructions I set the WB to mark tight but NOT press. This seems to make the space behind the WB less vulnerable and when I take this instruction off I ship goals from crosses. 

[Cloud9]

On 24/04/2024 at 18:34, Het2 said:

Cheers Cloud9, your input is always great.

This could work nicely! I would consider your defensive shape in transitions as you might get caught out against stronger teams.

At the moment you have two progressive 8's, as you might see with the stability of a 3-2 foundation on top of two progressive wingbacks. I would think about running something like a CAR + MEZ(s) combo for a more responsible pairing, capable of screening your wingbacks while still participating up the pitch.

Edited April 26 by Cloud9

[Bitner]

 

That's my 4-3-3 with a HB. winning everything, and i really like how he stays put and allows one of those BPD to venture forward. (HB is my last man very often)

Cheers,
Bitner

[spen86]

1 hour ago, Bitner said:

 

That's my 4-3-3 with a HB. winning everything, and i really like how he stays put and allows one of those BPD to venture forward. (HB is my last man very often)

Cheers,
Bitner

Love the potential shape on this. Any PI's on this mate?

[Bitner]

Yes, there are a few:

RCB: Stay wider
LCB: Stay wider, dribble more
LB: Stay wider, dribble to wider areas (not sure how it is in english)
RCM: More direct passes, Take more risks
LW: Stay narrower, Shoot on sight

Hope this helps!

Cheers,
Bitner 

 

9 horas atrás, spen86 disse:

Love the potential shape on this. Any PI's on this mate?

 

[EnigMattic1]

Is it possible to have the DM dropping deep and pushing the CB wide without using a HB? 

[Hilly1979]

44 minutes ago, EnigMattic1 said:

Is it possible to have the DM dropping deep and pushing the CB wide without using a HB? 

No, that’s the only role that’s hard coded to do so

[Skywalk3r83]

On 09/05/2024 at 03:45, Bitner said:

 

That's my 4-3-3 with a HB. winning everything, and i really like how he stays put and allows one of those BPD to venture forward. (HB is my last man very often)

Cheers,
Bitner

How are the results?
Looks nice, maybe I’m going to try this. I’m a bit done with higher tempo tactics. 

Edited May 27 by Skywalk3r83
Typo

[Bitner]

Won it all.

Cheers,
Bitner

[Skywalk3r83]

17 hours ago, Bitner said:

Won it all.

Cheers,
Bitner

Wow. Nice work!