When will si releases news from the FM 25?

[-Jef-]

1 hour ago, El Payaso said:

I have never understood why the 3D was needed. Obviously it was a big feature in terms of sales but it is so much easier to follow player movement and other tactical things with 2D that I would never change to 3D no matter how it looks.

Also seeing players still ghosting through each other and physical battles missing completely in 2024 is a bit of deal breaker for anyone who wants to manage football matches. 

Like 80% of player base find graphics the most important part of the game. But obviously FM is different and FM is growing every year, partly because of 3D. I have always said, give me FIFA 08 graphics and I am a happy little camper. Also give me bench camera POV and I am even happier little camper. In terms of new graphics engine and cameras. Otherwise I will continue playing 2D until I drop dead.

[Andrew Marines]

11 ore fa, El Payaso ha scritto:

I have never understood why the 3D was needed.

3D is really important.

With 2D you can see players' movements but you cannot see if a player has good technique or not. You can't see him dribble or else. If you play an attributeless save, it's really important to understand.

 

Other than the fact that 3D really helps immersion. Okay okay, watching sticks play isn't really great but it's surely better than watching dots play.

That's why we all asked for graphics updates

Edited June 13 by Andrew Marines

[Andrew Marines]

11 ore fa, -Jef- ha scritto:

Like 80% of player base find graphics the most important part of the game. But obviously FM is different and FM is growing every year, partly because of 3D. I have always said, give me FIFA 08 graphics and I am a happy little camper. Also give me bench camera POV and I am even happier little camper. In terms of new graphics engine and cameras. Otherwise I will continue playing 2D until I drop dead.

Don't even add those features,let us mod the game!

I'm gonna do it myself so Si doesn't even have to bother if it's a good feature or not

[Sport Lacost]

Apologies if I’ve missed this but can a FM24 game be transferred to the new FM25? I know it could be done from ‘23 to ‘24.

Thanks 

[Novem9]

I wonder how much the editor will be redesigned. The community deserves a tool that allows you to quickly raise unplayable countries without any risk of losing your save after a couple of months.

[El Payaso]

51 minutes ago, Andrew Marines said:

3D is really important.

With 2D you can see players' movements but you cannot see if a player has good technique or not. You can't see him dribble or else. If you play an attributeless save, it's really important to understand.

 

Other than the fact that 3D really helps immersion. Okay okay, watching sticks play isn't really great but it's surely better than watching dots play.

That's why we all asked for graphics updates

Yeah, but the thing with 3D is that the representation is still very poor in 2024. For example strength is an attribute that cannot be represented within the match engine as it lacks the collision mode and physical duels that play massive part in real football. 

It is also easy to detect from the 2D whether a player makes heavy touches etc as you can see the ball escaping. I would also claim that with the 2D it is easier to make your mind simulate think how the situation would have played out in real football. 

3D would make sense if it would resemble real football, especially the physical aspects but this has never been the case on FM. 

Edited June 13 by El Payaso

[Andrew Marines]

17 minuti fa, El Payaso ha scritto:

Yeah, but the thing with 3D is that the representation is still very poor in 2024. For example strength is an attribute that cannot be represented within the match engine as it lacks the collision mode and physical duels that play massive part in real football. 

It is also easy to detect from the 2D whether a player makes heavy touches etc as you can see the ball escaping. I would also claim that with the 2D it is easier to make your mind simulate think how the situation would have played out in real football. 

3D would make sense if it would resemble real football, especially the physical aspects but this has never been the case on FM. 

That's why we need a total improvement of the graphics/animation engine.

Not needing 3D is wrong, needing a revamp of it is absolutely right

[ForTheLoveOfTheGame]

Trailer or a small walk through video either today or tomorrow please! Before the Euros start. 

 

[El Payaso]

32 minutes ago, Andrew Marines said:

That's why we need a total improvement of the graphics/animation engine.

Not needing 3D is wrong, needing a revamp of it is absolutely right

Not needing the current 3D would probably be the correct way to say it.

I would have understood introducing a 3D match engine that contains some basics of real life representation (the collision mode for example) but not the one that we have been "enjoying" ever since the 3D was published. I'd personally never use a match engine where players don't get involved in physical battles and cannot run through each other. Those are things that take it so much away from real representation of football that I wouldn't be able to watch the matches like that. 

A match engine with poor graphical representation but including some basic fundamentals of real football would have always been a different story. 

[Birdman10piyu]

It's cool if people prefer 2D

But, as someone who enjoys watching football. I'd rather much WATCH a realistic representation  of football while playing Football Manager.

3D is incredibly important, for me atleast. I don't need FIFA levels of graphics but it's such a huge game changer for most people if the game matches looked and felt more realistic 

[ForTheLoveOfTheGame]

Are we still going to have this 2D/3D debate? 
 

Isn’t it from FM own data that shows the vast, vast majority use 3D and only a small percentage use 2D? 
 

 

[El Payaso]

23 minutes ago, Birdman10piyu said:

It's cool if people prefer 2D

But, as someone who enjoys watching football. I'd rather much WATCH a realistic representation  of football while playing Football Manager.

3D is incredibly important, for me atleast. I don't need FIFA levels of graphics but it's such a huge game changer for most people if the game matches looked and felt more realistic 

And this was the whole point. If the match engine is missing many basic fundamentals of real life football, then how can it be even a somewhat realistic representation of the sport? This isn't even something that could be considered as a matter of opinion but rather a fact. 

And as someone might still claim that players don't ghost through each other anymore which was a big gripe on FM 2012:

Yes, they do. 

Edited June 13 by El Payaso

[Andrew Marines]

49 minuti fa, El Payaso ha scritto:

And this was the whole point. If the match engine is missing many basic fundamentals of real life football, then how can it be even a somewhat realistic representation of the sport? This isn't even something that could be considered as a matter of opinion but rather a fact. 

And as someone might still claim that players don't ghost through each other anymore which was a big gripe on FM 2012:

Yes, they do. 

You don't quite seem to understand how 3D works in this game.

The match engine simulates every aspect of the game(even strength and other physicals). The question is now: how do you display them on screen? 2D is quite a lot easier but 3D?

You gotta translate what the ME said to an animated 3D version, it's not easy. There IS a difference if your CD has 1 or 20 strength against a target forward, the issue is that the 3D engine doesn't display it correctly.

That's what we all are asking for years now.

We know it's not even close to realism but dots moving are even worse for immersion and that's the important thing about this game

[forameuss]

50 minutes ago, El Payaso said:

And this was the whole point. If the match engine is missing many basic fundamentals of real life football, then how can it be even a somewhat realistic representation of the sport? This isn't even something that could be considered as a matter of opinion but rather a fact. 

And as someone might still claim that players don't ghost through each other anymore which was a big gripe on FM 2012:

Yes, they do. 

That's using a bit of creative license.  12 was criticised heavily because it was the worst example of FM completely lacking a collision detection system.  As in there is no code to handle it.  That's slightly different to what you're showing.  There is clearly collision detection now, but that isn't going to mean you aren't going to see what you've given a screenshot on, it just means it's a bug rather than something that just plain isn't catered for.  

[santy001]

As being mentioned by others, a bug in animation is different to something being missing entirely from the ME. There can be something programmatically possible within the ME that does not have a corresponding animation hypothetically. There was never a time at which playing in 2D had an ME with collision detection and playing in 3D had an ME without. 

What we can see portrayed from the ME will always be limited by the animations available to the game. It's something that will continue to expand over time as more and more are obtained through motion capture etc. 

[El Payaso]

41 minutes ago, Andrew Marines said:

You don't quite seem to understand how 3D works in this game.

The match engine simulates every aspect of the game(even strength and other physicals). The question is now: how do you display them on screen? 2D is quite a lot easier but 3D?

You gotta translate what the ME said to an animated 3D version, it's not easy. There IS a difference if your CD has 1 or 20 strength against a target forward, the issue is that the 3D engine doesn't display it correctly.

That's what we all are asking for years now.

We know it's not even close to realism but dots moving are even worse for immersion and that's the important thing about this game

I do know how the ME works and that many things are also related on how they are displayed in the animations.

That is also what I have been saying all along. Why would I like to watch a 3D ME that is lacking the visual aspect of the collision mode?

I'm not even sure how the collision mode has evolved during the years but by all means, it is still far away from a finished product which something like FIFA 2005 had almost 20 years ago. I'm not saying that FIFA has ever had a realistic simulation of a football match but at least the animation is not missing some vital aspects that define football as a sport. 

For me the 2D dots give you a better immersion as you can at least imagine things happening. This of course is a matter of opinion. 

 

Edited June 13 by El Payaso

[El Payaso]

24 minutes ago, santy001 said:

As being mentioned by others, a bug in animation is different to something being missing entirely from the ME. There can be something programmatically possible within the ME that does not have a corresponding animation hypothetically. There was never a time at which playing in 2D had an ME with collision detection and playing in 3D had an ME without. 

What we can see portrayed from the ME will always be limited by the animations available to the game. It's something that will continue to expand over time as more and more are obtained through motion capture etc. 

The main difference here is the fact that the 2D match engine hides the animational flaws of the 3D match engine which makes it look better for anyone who likes to see a game of football. That's all that I am saying. 

E: pfff, why does this community creare two separate replies when I try to combine them inside one message. 

Edited June 13 by El Payaso

[themadsheep2001]

2 hours ago, ForTheLoveOfTheGame said:

Are we still going to have this 2D/3D debate? 
 

Isn’t it from FM own data that shows the vast, vast majority use 3D and only a small percentage use 2D? 
 

 

Yep. 3D is overwhelmingly the view used 

[El Payaso]

47 minutes ago, themadsheep2001 said:

Yep. 3D is overwhelmingly the view used 

Probably majority of the FM players also use the vanilla version of the game and don't replace the newgen pictures generated by the game. This doesn't mean that the vanilla version of the game or newgen faces look good or are up to the standards of 2024.

Edited June 13 by El Payaso

[Sport Lacost]

Will an FM24 save carryover to FM25? Asked a while back in this thread but has got lost in all the 2D/3D debate.

[gunner86]

2 minutes ago, Sport Lacost said:

Will an FM24 save carryover to FM25? Asked a while back in this thread but has got lost in all the 2D/3D debate.

They haven’t confirmed. They stated last year they were hoping to be able to but nothing has been confirmed since.

[Costav]

1 hour ago, themadsheep2001 said:

Yep. 3D is overwhelmingly the view used

Although I am not against 3D mode, considering only what the majority of players do/want means that we will end up playing Fifa/eFootball instead of FM.
Sometimes it is important to keep the "original" features of a game instead of proposing new ones that do not propose a real improvement. 

In the case of 2D/3D, 2D is important because as a manager you want to see how the team as a whole moves on the pitch. You cannot have the same effect with this 3D.
But I like the idea of a coach POV camera, that would add a lot of realism to the matchday. And would also make the difference between those who "like to watch football played" but understand almost zero tactics and those who want the most realistic immersion possible.

Edited June 13 by Costav

[themadsheep2001]

6 minutes ago, Costav said:

Although I am not against 3D mode, considering only what the majority of players does means that we will end up playing Fifa/eFootball instead of FM.
Sometimes it is important to keep the "original" features of a game instead of proposing new ones that do not propose a real improvement. 

In the case of 2D/3D, 2D is important because as a manager you want to see how the team as a whole moves on the pitch. You cannot have the same effect with this 3D.
But I like the idea of a coach POV camera, that would add a lot of realism to the matchday. And would also make the difference between those who "like to watch football played" but understand almost zero tactics and those who want the most realistic immersion possible.

3D was one of the most requested items before it was introduced. And 2d still exists so no one has lost out

[Costav]

100% with you on this! And I hope it will remain the same (coexistence of 2D and 3D) in the upcoming versions.

[El Payaso]

11 minutes ago, Costav said:

100% with you on this! And I hope it will remain the same (coexistence of 2D and 3D) in the upcoming versions.

I agree, as long as some of the effort also goes to 2D. It used to be more beautiful in the past with stadiums etc and with the ability to drop different widgets to the sides. 

[XV20]

10 hours ago, Sport Lacost said:

Apologies if I’ve missed this but can a FM24 game be transferred to the new FM25? I know it could be done from ‘23 to ‘24.

Thanks 

Yes it will.

[saihtam]

Graphical improvements are all good etc. But biggest hope is to get some more immersion, have variety in stadiums, crowd, pitch etc. I assume they wont be able to push it too much the first releases as ME and little parts must be working and that is fine. But considering it is Unity, there is hope that we can have bigger impact from modding community to the environments we play in. Custom low league stadiums, fans, flags, celebration etc. Hope we can do it, would love to jump back into unity also.

And regarding the licensing reveled. I understand it is a big thing, but would hope they dont expect this to be enough for promised news.

Exited, but as always need to wait and see.

[Andrew Marines]

1 ora fa, saihtam ha scritto:

Graphical improvements are all good etc. But biggest hope is to get some more immersion, have variety in stadiums, crowd, pitch etc. I assume they wont be able to push it too much the first releases as ME and little parts must be working and that is fine. But considering it is Unity, there is hope that we can have bigger impact from modding community to the environments we play in. Custom low league stadiums, fans, flags, celebration etc. Hope we can do it, would love to jump back into unity also.

And regarding the licensing reveled. I understand it is a big thing, but would hope they dont expect this to be enough for promised news.

Exited, but as always need to wait and see.

Yeah honestly if they just improve the graphics, UI and let the modders create it's a really big win. They don't even gotta do anything else

[saihtam]

3 minutes ago, Andrew Marines said:

Yeah honestly if they just improve the graphics, UI and let the modders create it's a really big win. They don't even gotta do anything else

Jup, Hope they wont close that part off from us. It all comes down to how they build architecture etc and allow potential mods inserted into the game. DB, logos etc are so small parts. I am talking about assets, stadiums etc.

Will be interesting to see their approach.

[El Payaso]

25 minutes ago, saihtam said:

Will be interesting to see their approach.

Yup. Even if the 2D wouldn't even be included, I'm going to bite the bullet and continue playing. Of course fully hoping and also believing that 2D will be there as it should be. 

Would be also awesome if the 2D could be modified. In the past we used to have nice small details available for the 2D engine but I think nowadays there are very few if any ME mods available. 

Obviously the main hope for me is that the 2D would actually look better than it has looked for the last couple FMs. It used to be better in the past with all the widgets. 

[Brodie21]

As we await an update, I think we should discuss what we've heard on the rumour mill. I've heard a whisper that some players will be able to fly

[Wolf_pd]

17 minutes ago, Brodie21 said:

As we await an update, I think we should discuss what we've heard on the rumour mill. I've heard a whisper that some players will be able to fly

I even heard which players will be able to fly.

[Zachary Whyte]

56 minutes ago, Brodie21 said:

As we await an update, I think we should discuss what we've heard on the rumour mill. I've heard a whisper that some players will be able to fly

 

[ForTheLoveOfTheGame]

Well, 10 days maximum until we hear something. Hopefully sooner…

[forameuss]

40 minutes ago, ForTheLoveOfTheGame said:

Well, 10 days maximum until we hear something. Hopefully sooner…

People really need to get out of this mindset.

[Brodie21]

@ForTheLoveOfTheGame Nice fishing. You reeled in a sprat 

 

[XV20]

12 hours ago, Brodie21 said:

As we await an update, I think we should discuss what we've heard on the rumour mill. I've heard a whisper that some players will be able to fly

interesting...

[XV20]

what if they release some info the same time they talked about" the future of fm". I can be wrong but they can take their time and when they're ready, they will say so.  Just beacuse Miles said Q2, we shouldn't expect or force him to keep to that promise. 

https://www.footballmanager.com/news/future-football-manager

[kiwityke1983]

On 13/06/2024 at 16:23, ForTheLoveOfTheGame said:

Are we still going to have this 2D/3D debate? 
 

Isn’t it from FM own data that shows the vast, vast majority use 3D and only a small percentage use 2D? 
 

 

I can only speak for myself but I haven't used the 2D match engine for a single second since they introduced 3D.

[-Jef-]

47 minutes ago, kiwityke1983 said:

I can only speak for myself but I haven't used the 2D match engine for a single second since they introduced 3D.

Same but didn't use 3D at all other than for maybe...5 minutes?

[H_a_a_k_o_n]

Mine "out of the wild guess" is that Miles is preparing a big update exactly one year after the initial blogpost. Leaving us in ecstasy for the whole summer. So, Friday 28. June some big peeks comes. He lets the news out before he sets out for a well deserved 8 weeks vacation.

(This is a speculation thread so i speculate.)

[XaW]

3 hours ago, XV20 said:

what if they release some info the same time they talked about" the future of fm". I can be wrong but they can take their time and when they're ready, they will say so.  Just beacuse Miles said Q2, we shouldn't expect or force him to keep to that promise. 

https://www.footballmanager.com/news/future-football-manager

There is no promise, just an aim. From the link you gave:

Quote

 So, this means we're aiming for the first major FM25 reveal in Q2 of 2024

Aiming...not promising anything. They also announced that the PL will be licensed, something that could very well be considered a major reveal.

That said, I hope SI communicate more about FM25 soon.

[Robbie Hood]

2 hours ago, XaW said:

There is no promise, just an aim. From the link you gave:

Aiming...not promising anything. They also announced that the PL will be licensed, something that could very well be considered a major reveal.

That said, I hope SI communicate more about FM25 soon.

Definately no promise has been made, but i doubt very much that the PL licensing would be considered as a major reveal. This is what Miles wrote:
 

Quote

By this point that I’m sure that most of you are asking the same question – when can we see what this all looks like? Well, as mentioned earlier, we've had resource on FM25 for some time now, building towards a key milestone at the end of 2023. So, this means we're aiming for the first major FM25 reveal in Q2 of 2024

https://www.footballmanager.com/news/future-football-manager

The line "when can we see what this all looks like" probably means images of the improved matchday graphics and user interface, not an announcement of PL licensing.

I am hoping for a major reveal thursday or friday next week when there are no matches being played at the Euros

[KillYourIdols]

Hope SI Hurry up, I want the "Unofficial Beta Release Thread" and all It's GIF-ey goodness and Speculation back in my life

[Brother Ben]

22 hours ago, Wolf_pd said:

I even heard which players will be able to fly.

Max Bird of Bristol City?

[KillYourIdols]

4 minutes ago, Brother Ben said:

Max Bird of Bristol City?

and Troy Parrott

[Brother Ben]

22 minutes ago, KillYourIdols said:

and Troy Parrott

So tempted to derail this thread with a full avian XI   

I won't though, I promise.

But they will be managed by Goose Hiddink 

[KillYourIdols]

20 minutes ago, Brother Ben said:

So tempted to derail this thread with a full avian XI   

I won't though, I promise.

But they will be managed by Goose Hiddink 

John Peacock as Assistant?

[kiwityke1983]

6 hours ago, -Jef- said:

Same but didn't use 3D at all other than for maybe...5 minutes?

Yep I think both have a place in the game.

[-Jef-]

26 minutes ago, kiwityke1983 said:

Yep I think both have a place in the game.

 

As I said years ago. All SI needs to do (as if that's a trivial task) is have FIFA 08/09 animations and graphics and let me have a camera in the dugout as a real manager would have. And I switch to 3D in an instant.