What is "Transfer expenditure" and why is it costing me tens of millions more than I've actually paid?

[Oaktown Mojo]

Hi everyone!

 

I'll say immediately in my defense I did do a search. Didn't find anything applicable, so probably just stupid. However...

 

I'm a couple of seasons into a game and keep wondering about my spiralling transfer expenditure. Over the course of the last 2 seasons I've spent roughly 150 million in transfer fees and brought in about 280.  All of my buys I do straight up, no installments or anything. Maybe some future clauses for games played etc but never installments.

 

However when I look at my books I see almost 10 million per month going out to "transfer expenditure" when for example in the month I took the screenshot I only bought one player for less than a million.

 

In the attached screenshots you can see my total "transfer expenditure" over the time period is a whopping 235 million - 85 more than I've spent on players. And as far as I can tell, loyalty bonuses are a separate column on the expenditure sheet and as such shouldn't count against the transfer expenditure column. And even if it was, my spending hasn't been so wild as to generate such a massive monthly payout.

 

So my question is: what is "transfer expenditure" made up of? What am I missing? Obviously something, and surely it will make me slap my forehead in shame for not understanding it. But as far as I can tell I'm bleeding tens of millions out more than I'm actually paying. 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited May 15 by Oaktown Mojo

[XaW]

Check your transfer clauses, perhaps you are paying installments from past season. Also, I think signing on bonuses and agent fees come from the same budget, but don't quote me on that.

[-Jef-]

12 hours ago, XaW said:

Check your transfer clauses, perhaps you are paying installments from past season. Also, I think signing on bonuses and agent fees come from the same budget, but don't quote me on that.

I can confirm that they do.

[gunner86]

If you go on to the transfer clauses section (I think it’s under the Finances section, may be under Scouting), it will show you any pre-determined transfer clauses.

While you may not buy in installments, Palace may well have before you took over (i.e In Real Life).

As XaW mentions, Agent fees etc also count

[danyates8]

Yeah I'm currently experiencing the exact same issue. However I think mines a little clearer than yours as the monthly outgoing for 'transfer expenditure' for one month is more than I've spent in the whole save. I've spent around 3.5 million in around 3 and a half seasons yet my transfer expenditure for the last month is £3,579,758 taking the season total too £4,686,902. There was £150,000 towards clauses and 50k in transfer fees that month. To make matters even more confusing the season before transfer expenditure across the season was £4,376,687 when id spent 300k on actually transfer fees. So that's a total of £9,063,589 in two years taken from the overall balance when ive only spent £1,700,000. It has to be a bug,

[XaW]

4 minutes ago, danyates8 said:

Yeah I'm currently experiencing the exact same issue. However I think mines a little clearer than yours as the monthly outgoing for 'transfer expenditure' for one month is more than I've spent in the whole save. I've spent around 3.5 million in around 3 and a half seasons yet my transfer expenditure for the last month is £3,579,758 taking the season total too £4,686,902. There was £150,000 towards clauses and 50k in transfer fees that month. To make matters even more confusing the season before transfer expenditure across the season was £4,376,687 when id spent 300k on actually transfer fees. So that's a total of £9,063,589 in two years taken from the overall balance when ive only spent £1,700,000. It has to be a bug,

What are the agent fees and signing on bonus for all those players? That is also a transfer expense.

[danyates8]

I brought one player in January with a 50k fee and 25k agent fee yet the expenditure for that month is £3,500,000. All the other players were brought in at the beginning of the season with low agent fees

[Cascadian]

Sounds like it's amortization. IRL, transfer fees are (obviously) paid in full when a transfer occurs. However, for accounting purposes that money is spread evenly over the length of the player's contract. Sign a $10 million player for 5 years, and the fee will hit your books at $2 million annually, or roughly $167,000 monthly. So what you're seeing is the amortized cost of all transfer fees on your books, including those made before you even assumed the helm. It doesn't matter what you did or didn't actually spend in a given month. (This is for incoming players only. Payments received for outgoing players immediately hit your books in full.) That's how it works in actual life, anyway. Sounds like that's how it works in FM, too. I've never actually checked, lol.

Edited May 24 by Cascadian

[Cloud9]

18 hours ago, Cascadian said:

Sounds like it's amortization. IRL, transfer fees are (obviously) paid in full when a transfer occurs. However, for accounting purposes that money is spread evenly over the length of the player's contract. Sign a $10 million player for 5 years, and the fee will hit your books at $2 million annually, or roughly $167,000 monthly. So what you're seeing is the amortized cost of all transfer fees on your books, including those made before you even assumed the helm. It doesn't matter what you did or didn't actually spend in a given month. (This is for incoming players only. Payments received for outgoing players immediately hit your books in full.) That's how it works in actual life, anyway. Sounds like that's how it works in FM, too. I've never actually checked, lol.

FM doesn't use amortization I believe (too complicated), just a simple 3 year rolling FFP period. 

[Cascadian]

On 25/05/2024 at 07:52, Cloud9 said:

FM doesn't use amortization I believe (too complicated), just a simple 3 year rolling FFP period. 

Yeah...I should have checked my own save before replying. Zero transfer spend this month.

[wazzaflow10]

Has anyone come up with a reason why transfer expenditures are occuring outside of the transfer window? I most certainly did not spend £76M in October, nor did I spend £41M in the last month. On course to fail FFP as a result. There were £185M outgoing - most of which was bought before I got there. I can't figure out how £185M becomes £216M and that's assuming the transfers that did happen prior were actually counted starting in July 2023. The only players I've brought in are the bottom two.

 

 

 

[White Flag]

Chelsea has hundreds of million of prior transfers paid by instalments, so these fees will have a massive impact on you for a few years to come.

[wazzaflow10]

6 hours ago, White Flag said:

Chelsea has hundreds of million of prior transfers paid by instalments, so these fees will have a massive impact on you for a few years to come.

Just tallied up all the clauses in the game and their dates. 77M in fees paid out mainly in January, July, and August. Don't think this is it.

 

 

 

 

 

[wazzaflow10]

@XaW

I didn't realize there was another thread with the same topic feel free to merge if necessary.

[XaW]

3 hours ago, wazzaflow10 said:

@XaW

I didn't realize there was another thread with the same topic feel free to merge if necessary.

Merged!

But also, agent fees (also for contract renewals I believe, so check that too!), installments, and if you have any sell on fees or any loyalty bonuses paid out, perhaps?

[wazzaflow10]

30 minutes ago, XaW said:

Merged!

But also, agent fees (also for contract renewals I believe, so check that too!), installments, and if you have any sell on fees or any loyalty bonuses paid out, perhaps?

I haven't renewed any contracts, certainly not £70M worth of contracts in one month. Outlined the installment plans and their payout dates. Not sure on loyalty bonuses but I'd assume they'd be paid out more evenly or remaining balance upon sale. I'm certainly not selling anyone outside of the window where that'd come into play so significantly. I believe Agent fees and loyalty bonuses have their own line item now too. Even so, I'd understand a few million difference to account for these extra fees but this seems to be 200M+ on top of what they've already spent.

I would expect the transfers that already at save start (Jackson & Nkunku) to have been paid/accounted for already in the budget. I'm basing this on the fact that there isn't nearly £150M in transfer income from transfers that happen on or before July 1. To be honest I'm not even sure what happened in October that generated £21M in revenue. I feel like this has to be a bug or some transfer fee schedule isn't show to us. The math just doesn't line up.

 

[XaW]

14 minutes ago, wazzaflow10 said:

I haven't renewed any contracts, certainly not £70M worth of contracts in one month. Outlined the installment plans and their payout dates. Not sure on loyalty bonuses but I'd assume they'd be paid out more evenly or remaining balance upon sale. I'm certainly not selling anyone outside of the window where that'd come into play so significantly. I believe Agent fees and loyalty bonuses have their own line item now too. Even so, I'd understand a few million difference to account for these extra fees but this seems to be 200M+ on top of what they've already spent.

I would expect the transfers that already at save start (Jackson & Nkunku) to have been paid/accounted for already in the budget. I'm basing this on the fact that there isn't nearly £150M in transfer income from transfers that happen on or before July 1. To be honest I'm not even sure what happened in October that generated £21M in revenue. I feel like this has to be a bug or some transfer fee schedule isn't show to us. The math just doesn't line up.

 

Then I'd suggest reporting it as a possible bug. At the very least SI can explain it if it's not a bug.