Games 31 and 32: Denmark vs Serbia live from the Fußball Arena München ITV4 8pm AND England vs Slovenia live from the Cologne Stadium ITV1 8pm

[Wavelberry]

They keep saying we played the best in this game but the first 15 minutes against Serbia is the best we've played. Everything else has been dreck. Deluded.

[aiston]

They left everything out there.....we are so ****ed.

[JJ72]

Just now, aiston said:

They left everything out there.....we are so ****ed.

Please take them back, I don't want this shower of **** staying in Köln. 

[The_jagster]

Pasting on a phone is awful, sorry

[Robson 07]

There are some "leggy" players in the squad.  Long seasons showing on Kane, Bellingham and possibly the Arsenal players. 

[SouthCoastRed]

8 minutes ago, arenaross said:

I've wasted over 4 and a half hours of my life, which I will never get back, watching England in group stages.

Wait till you are my age!!!!

[eenie]

Apology NOT accepted

[enigmatic]

1 minute ago, RTHerringbone said:

At what point do players get sufficient flak?

Like I get that the team selection has been a bit funky, but at some point the players have to be accountable because independently they're generally quite good, and I refuse to believe that players are intelligent and diligent enough to stick rigidly to the tactical plans of the coach, in spite of what their individual ideas might be.

Also, I'm not sure Gareth coached them to miscontrol quite as often as several of them managed today.

[Bliss Seeker]

Bellingham has been terrible btw. He looks dead out there, complete passanger. 

I'd be tempted to drop him and get a winger out there with Foden in the middle.

Wouldn't dare even think about having his lethargy in the middle with Rice now, we'd get mullered. 

[TalkSport]

2 minutes ago, RTHerringbone said:

At what point do players get sufficient flak?

Like I get that the team selection has been a bit funky, but at some point the players have to be accountable because independently they're generally quite good, and I refuse to believe that players are intelligent and diligent enough to stick rigidly to the tactical plans of the coach, in spite of what their individual ideas might be.

It’s on the coach for me. They’re following his instructions. Like Stones literally doesn’t come into midfield with the ball, and we all know he can do that.

[JJ72]

Just now, SouthCoastRed said:

Wait till you are my age!!!!

If he lives that long

[Smallen]

4 minutes ago, The_jagster said:

Spot the common team in both

Pos	Team v t e	Pld	W	D	L	GF	GA	GD	Pts	Qualification
1	England	3	1	2	0	2	1	+1	4	Advance to knockout stage
2	Republic of Ireland	3	0	3	0	2	2	0	3[a]
3	Netherlands	3	0	3	0	2	2	0	3[a]
4	Egypt	3	0	2	1	1	2	−1	2

 

this is what screenshots are for jags

[TalkSport]

Feel the subs will get overplayed. It was against a tiring Slovenia side. 

[ajw10]

2 minutes ago, ajw10 said:

That Palmer for Saka sub sums up Southgate for me.

No issue with Saka going off and Palmer was fine but the game was crying out for a runner, not someone was likes the ball played to feet (like Foden)

Southgate doesn't respect or understand what's need in a game. He doesn't care for partnerships, particularly attacking ones.

Has to be gone after this tournament.

to add to this, if Palmer comes on that Watkins should go up top.

Why is Gordon getting a few minutes?

Why did Southgate not take a left back?

Just outrageously poor. The squad is playing like it's 2010 where every player seemed miserable.

[Baptista_8]

Palmer is our most creative player and has to start in this dire setup

[Rob1981]

8 minutes ago, TalkSport said:

It’s only D and E 3rd place we can face now. Most likely E I’m assuming.

To get E3 and not Netherlands, we'd need CDEF to be the combination of groups providing the third place teams.

So that means Hungary dropping out, and one from Czechs/Georgia winning against Turkey/Portugal and getting to four points. 

That bottom scenario you may as well disregard.  That only happens if the Group E third place team finishes on only three points.  So that means neither of the Belgium-Ukraine and Slovakia-Romania games are draws, even though Slovakia and Romania know they can both draw to go through.

Edited Tuesday at 21:11 by Rob1981

[CFuller]

England have now played out 0-0 draws at major tournaments in 2024, 2022, 2021, 2016, 2014, 2012, 2010, 2006 and 2002... and that's just in this century.

I love this team.

[Smallen]

5 minutes ago, ajw10 said:

That Palmer for Saka sub sums up Southgate for me.

No issue with Saka going off and Palmer was fine but the game was crying out for a runner, not someone was likes the ball played to feet (like Foden)

Southgate doesn't respect or understand what's need in a game. He doesn't care for partnerships, particularly attacking ones.

Has to be gone after this tournament.

I think the natural end for Southgate was after the world cup and we might be seeing the consequences of him overstaying here sadly

[InigoPatinkin]

Ange for the England job? 

[ajw10]

Just now, Baptista_8 said:

Palmer is our most creative player and has to start in this dire setup

creativity doesn't matter if there's no runners. A balance is needed. If Palmer starts then at least one of Saka/Watkins/Gordon must start

[eenie]

It's wild that England have all of this attacking talent, are absolutely effing stacked with it, and yet they've scored the same number of goals in the group stage as *checks notes* Scotland.

[kpain16]

I have to say, I can't wait to see what Southgate does next. 

[ceefax the cat]

Mainoo suuurely starts next game, no?

Palmer and Gordon acquitted themselves really well too. I'd be concerned if I was Saka or Foden, especially Saka, who should maybe be competing for left back

Edited Tuesday at 21:12 by ceefax the cat

[Bootador]

Palmer was really good, but where's he playing? Are you dropping Saka?

Play Saka LB

[Robson 07]

2 minutes ago, InigoPatinkin said:

Ange for the England job? 

[Lucas]

2 minutes ago, InigoPatinkin said:

Ange for the England job? 

Yes please. 

[ajw10]

Just now, Bootador said:

Palmer was really good, but where's he playing? Are you dropping Saka?

Play Saka LB

Saka has never played LB in a back 4. 

[Rob1981]

2 minutes ago, CFuller said:

England have now played out 0-0 draws at major tournaments in 2024, 2022, 2021, 2016, 2014, 2012, 2010, 2006 and 2002... and that's just in this century.

Also 1958 vs Brazil... the first 0-0 draw in the history of the World Cup

[Bootador]

Just now, ajw10 said:

Saka has never played LB in a back 4. 

Walker has never played LB, it's desperate hour.

[enigmatic]

Just now, Bootador said:

Palmer was really good, but where's he playing? Are you dropping Saka?

Play Saka LB

Honestly, Gareth should probably go to a back three with Saka at LWB just because it'll drive everybody mental and then actually be better at getting in behind the opposition than the current shape  

[mrw072]

9 minutes ago, GunmaN1905 said:

Jagster beat me to it.

I remember when that happened.  At the time they were worried that all of the teams could finish exactly level, and they'd toss coins to see who would get through.  Thankfully it didn't come to that.

[ajw10]

Just now, Bootador said:

Walker has never played LB, it's desperate hour.

yeah but Walker is a defender. It's completely different.

[The_jagster]

3 minutes ago, Rob1981 said:

To get E3 and not Netherlands, we'd need CDEF to be the combination of groups providing the third place teams.

So that means Hungary dropping out, and probably one from Czechs/Georgia winning against Turkey/Portugal and getting to four points. 

That bottom scenario you may as well disregard.  That only happens if the Group E third place team finishes on only three points.  So that means neither of the Belgium-Ukraine and Slovakia-Romania games are draws, even though Slovakia and Romania know they can both draw to go through.

This scenario essentially happened last Euros and Austria ending up winning the game rather than the mutually beneficial draw

[Haguey]

Dunno if Ange bellowing come on mate on the touchline will be a big improvement in performance

[TalkSport]

Palmer was bright, but wouldn’t say it’s a great deal different to Saka. Easier to impose yourself when full back is on a yellow after tackling Saka most game, they then can’t get close to a new player. He’ll face same challenges Saka does from the start.

Nothing wrong bringing him on regularly as the sub after 60 mins. 

[CFuller]

Just now, Rob1981 said:

Also 1958 vs Brazil... the first 0-0 draw in the history of the World Cup

WINTERBOTTOM OUT. Drop Finney and give Greaves a chance, for heaven's sake! 

[Bootador]

 

[RTHerringbone]

2 minutes ago, TalkSport said:

It’s on the coach for me. They’re following his instructions. Like Stones literally doesn’t come into midfield with the ball, and we all know he can do that.

I just don't think players are that smart. I genuinely hope / dream / believe that they'll stick to "the plan" for a bit, but can't fathom a world in which the best players in England, Germany and Spain all capitulate into this deferential mass of absolute turd.

They have to be "to blame" for some of that. As a good, influential player, you'd risk the wrath of the coach if you could see a better solution.

[ceefax the cat]

1 minute ago, ajw10 said:

Saka has never played LB in a back 4. 

Guehi, Stones, Walker :: Saka, Bellingham, Rice, Trippier :: Foden, Kane, Palmer

it'd be something like that I suppose

[Lucas]

1 minute ago, Bootador said:

Palmer was really good, but where's he playing? Are you dropping Saka?

Play Saka LB

I'd honestly put Saka LB and Palmer on the right. Either that or just go to a back three, because the full backs just aren't getting forward enough anyway. 

But really given some players are obviously tired if there was any game to rest them it was this one, and Gareth hasn't done that. 

You could take the starting players out of this team for their backups and they should draw or get a result here. Otherwise, what are they doing in the squad. 

[Astafjevs]

Palmer was good, but it was for 15 mins against a poor team sitting on the edge of their own box. I don't think I'd put too much stock in it.

THe other issue is if he starts, then Saka is benched because there's nowhere else for him to go, unless you play him out of position.

Have to accept that not all the good players can start.

[Smallen]

Saka as a left back when you are playing Walker on the other side makes more sense than Trippier at left back to be honest. You just lose Saka at right wing, and he’s one of our most productive outlets there.

[ajw10]

1 minute ago, TalkSport said:

Palmer was bright, but wouldn’t say it’s a great deal different to Saka. Easier to impose yourself when full back is on a yellow after tackling Saka most game, they then can’t get close to a new player. He’ll face same challenges Saka does from the start.

Nothing wrong bringing him on regularly as the sub after 60 mins. 

zero completed dribbles from Palmer fwiw.

[TalkSport]

Main issues from that game been there in others. Rice on his own in middle. CBs not moving into midfield with the ball. Full backs always looking inside for passes. Nothing on LW. Bellingham all over, minimal involvement unless it’s a 50/50 or a slide tackle. Foden / Saka trying to inject tempo on their own. Kane walking. 

Just too many issues. 

[Gizmo7]

Come on guys, I know we’re all desperate but Saka at left back is utter madness.

[ajw10]

2 minutes ago, ceefax the cat said:

Guehi, Stones, Walker :: Saka, Bellingham, Rice, Trippier :: Foden, Kane, Palmer

it'd be something like that I suppose

would rather see Saka get dropped then move him to somewhere he hasn't played in 5 years

No one in that front three is running either. All 3 that show for the ball.

Edited Tuesday at 21:18 by ajw10

[Rob1981]

1 minute ago, The_jagster said:

This scenario essentially happened last Euros and Austria ending up winning the game rather than the mutually beneficial draw

Theirs was only the second group to finish, so at the time I don't think it was mathematically certain that the 3rd place team in that group were definitely 100% through.

It was extremely likely though.  I remember being surprised that Austria went and won it, especially because they knew they would then have to play Italy as the group RU.

[aiston]

 

 

[GunmaN1905]

1 minute ago, Gizmo7 said:

Come on guys, I know we’re all desperate but Saka at left back is utter madness.

If Ashley Young can do it...

[Haguey]

Think Mainoo starts for sure next game

Walker has to start if its the Dutch.. would probably keep Trippier at LB then for defensive solidarity and the odd good ball

Palmer was good but as above Saka must start, he doesn't play left so you kick out Bellingham which I don't think is happening, and besides if you are changing the centre I'd rather Foden moves there and someone went left instead.