FM 25 DEVELOPMENT UPDATE

[Dotsworthy]

Sounds like FM25 will be a rough launch, hopefully this isn't just another Cyberpunk doing a token delay when there are major problems.

International Management I don't care too much about. I used to enjoy it when you could fly through a CM03/04 save in a week but in modern FM it isn't hugely compelling. It needs a major rethink.

I don't think I ever paid attention to the weight of the player and I don't even know how it effects the game/match engine, so I'm not that bothered about not seeing the value on the player profile.

[Carmi88]

I love people on twitter are whining about international management being removed when everyone screams it's awful and needs revamping. But then they also complain about the addition of women's football saying it's replacing international management

 

 

[andu1]

Would have expected at least one screenshot from within the game...

[renato.]

It's typical SI move to announce that they are taking out one feature to announce them as "fresh news" for the other editions, but only changing one thing or two.

[KrvakForLife]

4 minutos atrás, TopToffee disse:

Here’s a novel idea - if you’re not happy - DON’T BUY IT.

It’s not “borderline disgusting”. It would be if they were putting a gun to your head and forcing you to buy it. 
 

Spoiler: They're not. It has been made abundantly clear that areas of the game will be a step back to enable future leaps forward. You have been provided with the information to make your own decision. And if that info isn’t enough, there’ll be a demo, like every other year.

This talk of "if you don't like it, don't buy it" doesn't make sense.

Does this inhibit criticism? Criticism as long as it is constructive is good for companies, and all feedback is feedback, I understand that you like the game as much as I do, I love this game. But it is not pleasant to inhibit others from giving their opinion and criticizing as long as it is constructive.

[Dbuk1]

I'm disappointed but not surprised about the development delay. I'm a supporter of womans football and trying to help them in the real world of football. SI have made it there main priority to integrate womans football in the ecosystem when womans football is still at a very low level. If people were honest I doubt managing in the female league would be there main focus and I'm hopeful SI will release the playing figures percentage wise every year for transparency to judge this fact. One day womans football will be globally relevant. Today is not that day. Keep supporting it behind the scenes etc but not at the expense of what is relevant now.

[davehanson]

It’s okay saying don’t buy it and you are right nobody is forcing anyone to buy it - but the announcements made so far have all been about telling us what they are taking out of the game and that does feel like a kick in the teeth for, especially, long time players who have gotten used to features being added and then developed further in future versions.

Again, it’s okay saying don’t buy it, but if the majority took that view the game wouldn’t continue to exist. There is nothing wrong with being critical as long as the point is made fairly.

I am massively disappointed in the news so far - I was obviously one of the 5% that played International Management. I usually started off as an international manager before taking a club job 5 or 6 years down the line. So for me one part of the game I really enjoy has been taken away.

[andu1]

Also it's not a drama for me they removed international managment for FM 25..

It needed a serios rework so it's better if they take it off for a season or two...

[davehanson]

2 minutes ago, Carmi88 said:

I love people on twitter are whining about international management being removed when everyone screams it's awful and needs revamping. But then they also complain about the addition of women's football saying it's replacing international management

 

 

But you must see revamping and removing are two completely seperate points?

Does it need to be revamped - yes. But would I rather have had it in FM25 even in its current state - again yes

[FlazeepX]

5 minutes ago, TopToffee said:

Here’s a novel idea - if you’re not happy - DON’T BUY IT.

It’s not “borderline disgusting”. It would be if they were putting a gun to your head and forcing you to buy it. 
 

Spoiler: They're not. It has been made abundantly clear that areas of the game will be a step back to enable future leaps forward. You have been provided with the information to make your own decision. And if that info isn’t enough, there’ll be a demo, like every other year.

You're right to a degree, yes I have a choice not to buy it, but it shouldn't even be the case in the first place. The game is quite clearly unfinished, they purposely lacked more development on FM24 to focus on FM25, yet we're being delivered half a game? How can you accept that is the bar?
 

It seems to be a common theme in the games industry in the past  few years to rush a game just so it's out there, with features broken, features missing, delayed game dates, and you're okay with that? Game developers need to up their game and stop accepting the minimal as okay, and still charge your fans the same or even more for less, craziness.

[azymin]

I personally don't like the justification for removal of international management. Saying that only a small X percent of players play it is just disingenuous. The percentage is small exactly because international management has been neglected for years. 

Though I'd be very happy with FM 25 if other long standing issues finally get fixed.

[ForTheLoveOfTheGame]

1 minute ago, andu1 said:

Also it's not a drama for me they removed international managment for FM 25..

It needed a serios rework so it's better if they take it off for a season or two...

They have used the 5% figure to justify removing it though. That’s a worrying road to go down with features. 

[andu1]

I wouldnt say that what they removed so far makes FM25 a half game..

I dont think that Touchline shouts, international management or show the weight in the players profile was half of Football manager

[XaW]

1 minute ago, davehanson said:

But you must see revamping and removing are two completely seperate points?

Does it need to be revamped - yes. But would I rather have had it in FM25 even in its current state - again yes

Unless I misread things, Miles said they are low on time, and thus they didn't want to port a poorly implemented feature into the new engine and rather spend time on getting the rest of hte game correct, and then readd it in a later version. Would you rather they spent time getting the same in FM25 and having other features missing or not done right? I fail to see how this is a bad thing, unless you are a die hard international manager?

[Fat_Frank8]

Is the latest development update a joke? Release date pushed back, no international management and the weight had to be removed ()to accomodate Women’s football and their fluctuating weights. You’d think it would be easier to just disregard the apparent weight fluctuation than removing weight completely. The worst CM/FM since CM4 incoming. 

[harrycarrie]

This just has the feelings of launch, and FM25 being a bit of a disaster and a mess. I hope im wrong but nothing stated or shown so far leads me to see it in any other light, especially with the track record of recent years. Strong links back to CM4.

Edited September 4 by harrycarrie

[KrvakForLife]

Everything that has been removed so far (only things confirmed by SI):
Touchline Shouts
Social Media
Create a Club
Versus Mode
Challenge Mode (only touch, mobile and console)
Fantasy Draft (coming mid-cycle)
International management

weight shown in profile

[davehanson]

1 minute ago, XaW said:

Unless I misread things, Miles said they are low on time, and thus they didn't want to port a poorly implemented feature into the new engine and rather spend time on getting the rest of hte game correct, and then readd it in a later version. Would you rather they spent time getting the same in FM25 and having other features missing or not done right? I fail to see how this is a bad thing, unless you are a die hard international manager?

I said what I did in the post above, but for the record yes I usually started off as an international manager before moving to a club role. So for me this is quite a big feature of the game removed.

And I can’t see why - maybe someone can explain in easy to understand terms - why the international side could just not have stayed the same as it is now? It wasn’t great I accept that, but yes, I would much rather have had it in as it was in FM 24/23/22/21/20 etc than not in at all

[andu1]

Just now, KrvakForLife said:

Everything that has been removed so far (only things confirmed by SI):
Touchline Shouts
Social Media
Create a Club
Versus Mode
Challenge Mode (only touch, mobile and console)
Fantasy Draft (coming mid-cycle)
International management

weight shown in profile

Nothing that is part of the core gameplay so far.. To me some of those were unnecessary bloat like social media or touchline shouts ( never used them )

[XaW]

Just now, davehanson said:

I said what I did in the post above, but for the record yes I usually started off as an international manager before moving to a club role. So for me this is quite a big feature of the game removed.

And I can’t see why - maybe someone can explain in easy to understand terms - why the international side could just not have stayed the same as it is now? It wasn’t great I accept that, but yes, I would much rather have had it in as it was in FM 24/23/22/21/20 etc than not in at all

Because of the switch to unity, I imagine. So they would have spent apparently a significant amount of time to port (make sure the old code used is compatible with Unity) it over, and instead of doing that, they can just remove it and spend the same time getting the rest of game ported over and hopefully improved too.

[stevemc]

I don't mind international management being removed for now, as it properly needs revamping anyway, so long as the country screens are still available to view and players get called up etc

Sounds like FM25 might worth a skip until FM26 though, when hopefully most of the teething issues are resolved by.

[we88y]

Initial Thoughts on that dev blog are:

• It's clear that development is behind so we will likely experience bugs.
• I doubt the women's game will have more of a game mode share than all removed features altogether, and therefore should have been the mode pushed back.
• I suspect that this delay will mean an even later release each year from now on which is crazy really in comparison to other sports games.
• Removing weight is a bad decision and makes it harder to profile a player at a glance.

This has not been a good look so far. I'm keeping my mind open until I see more but I can see this being a disaster for various reasons.

[XaW]

1 minute ago, andu1 said:

Nothing that is part of the core gameplay so far.. To me some of those were unnecessary bloat like social media or touchline shouts ( never used them )

Most of those are fluff to me, and I've seen a gazillion posts in here asking SI to remove fluff, so guess a large portion of people will get their wish (thought I think I see some of the same names now complaining about them being removed....?)

[Micho21]

hace 3 minutos, XaW dijo:

Unless I misread things, Miles said they are low on time, and thus they didn't want to port a poorly implemented feature into the new engine and rather spend time on getting the rest of hte game correct, and then readd it in a later version. Would you rather they spent time getting the same in FM25 and having other features missing or not done right? I fail to see how this is a bad thing, unless you are a die hard international manager?

I don't think we are able to answer that after the game were delivered. If it fulfills the expectations they have already raised, then it might be understandable. If not, the answer is obvious.

[XaW]

Just now, we88y said:

Removing weight is a bad decision and makes it harder to profile a player at a glance.

Honest question; What impact do you think weight actually have in the game? Other than as a number on the profile?

[Fat_Frank8]

Wonder if graphical representation of women weight fluctuation in the new unity engine might be a headline feature?

[jimbo22]

Removing a feature that has needed fixing for years is just typical of SI. International management has been a side thought for way too long. Theres a reason that so little play it, because its poorly implemented. Interesting that losing features has been pretty big in this version while they implement womans football. I think it was said that the implementation wouldnt effect other areas of the game... Ok, we have to take that at face value even if we believe it or not. 

Release date also, almost half way through a season. September we've seen a couple tiny pictures of the game UI. interesting way to promote a new game on a new engine. Reservations are well and truly in place.

[jimbo22]

5 minutes ago, davehanson said:

maybe someone can explain in easy to understand terms - why the international side could just not have stayed the same as it is now? It wasn’t great I accept that, but yes, I would much rather have had it in as it was in FM 24/23/22/21/20 etc than not in at all

At a guess, they've been spending time on it, changed it up and now dont have time to finish it and have gone to a point where it cant be "left as it was". Could be wrong but that would seem to be the reason why they can leave it as it was. 

[xOGxTerror]

28 minutes ago, ForTheLoveOfTheGame said:

The one thing that can possibly save FM25 is the graphics…but we are yet to see any of it yet

The issue is though no one plays FM for the graphics. If they did they would have left years ago. So I don’t really understand if SI think the graphics will be a big enough trade off for all the stuff they are removing. 
 

Only 5% of players play international management cause it’s half baked. So instead of improving on it, they decide to remove it and add women’s football, which is currently played by 0% of the players, and would assume is going to be played by 5% or less of the players in the same way international football is. And now they’re removing the weight as well as it works “differently” in women’s football. I thought this was supposed to be a SIMULATION game?! We now cannot see a players weight and we can’t even manage an international team? 
 

FM25 is not in for a good start… and I think the way they’ve gone about announcing is going to hinder not help their player base get excited about it. 

Edited September 4 by xOGxTerror

[jcw163]

30 minutes ago, XaW said:

This is in the game already....Here is a gif from FM23...

 

The gif doesn't work but the comments underneath suggest it was for a handball, which is not what I am asking

Edit;- Got it to open - yeh that's for handball, they can't foul people.

Edited September 4 by jcw163

[ForTheLoveOfTheGame]

3 minutes ago, XaW said:

Honest question; What impact do you think weight actually have in the game? Other than as a number on the profile?

It’s important for immersion. 

Wouldn’t surprise me if height is removed next year now…

[davehanson]

8 minutes ago, XaW said:

Because of the switch to unity, I imagine. So they would have spent apparently a significant amount of time to port (make sure the old code used is compatible with Unity) it over, and instead of doing that, they can just remove it and spend the same time getting the rest of game ported over and hopefully improved too.

So, 2 things - the first I can't answer. How much time would it take to make international management playable? There are no real 'added' features in and around it - that's the point people have been making for years anyway. You might know more than me, I know nothing about game coding etc - freely happy to admit it, but this doesn't seem like something that should take a long time.

Secondly - and I strongly supported this last year - we were effectively told last year we were getting a more polished version of FM23 for FM24. No real features added (I think the ability to transfer a saved game file from FM23 to FM24 was the only one) as the team were fully concentrating on making FM25 the best it can be. Now we are being told that there is not the time to do that. We have 'put up' with by and large the same game for 2 years - and SI have said FM24 was their best selling game ever - and now we are being told there just isn't the time to even keep features that we in the last 20 years worth of FM. Do you not see how shockingly bad that looks?

Edited September 4 by davehanson

[Micho21]

In any case, it would be appreciated if they publish a development update on adding new features rather than another one about removing the old ones. Just for keeping a bit of optimism alive

[XaW]

Just now, jcw163 said:

The gif doesn't work but the comments underneath suggest it was for a handball, which is not what I am asking

Then you need to be specific, it was a foul and a red card. The gif works, but it's big, so you have to wait a bit...

[decapitated]

I'm still going to buy the game because Leicester are back in the premier league and I'm a loyal customer, I will be honest, I am disappointed as I've enjoyed International Management a lot previously. I think it will be worth it provided a much-improved version of International Management is ready for FM26. As much as I enjoyed it, it's a shadow of the experience of managing a club in a FM game.

I'm interested/excited to watch the new in-match graphics in 3 weeks time. 

[Costav]

3 minutes ago, XaW said:

Honest question; What impact do you think weight actually have in the game? Other than as a number on the profile?

I believe it takes a good part.
I will expand the explanation:

The weight is the mass a player needs to "transport" when moving/running...I do believe that, if physics in the game is expressed properly, between two players with same acceleration and pace the one who weights less will be fastest.
Same thing for the height.

Unless physical attributes are completely disconnected by the body characteristics of each player...   

[Micho21]

hace 2 minutos, davehanson dijo:

 

Secondly - and I strongly supported this last year - we were effectively told last year we were getting a more polished version of FM23 for FM24. No real features added (I think the ability to transfer a saved game file from FM23 to FM24 was the only one)

Set pieces editor was a quite good addition.

Edited September 4 by Micho21

[Craigus89]

5 minutes ago, XaW said:

Honest question; What impact do you think weight actually have in the game? Other than as a number on the profile?

My question is, can we infer from this that it actually has zero bearing on anything in the match engine? If so, great don't tell us, I don't care. But if it does have an impact and were tied into the strength attribute somehow for instance, then removing it is just another thing to add to the list of stuff that goes on under-the-hood that we have no knowledge of, which collectively add to the frustration due to the deliberate obfuscation of information for no good reason.  

[jcw163]

2 minutes ago, XaW said:

Then you need to be specific, it was a foul and a red card. The gif works, but it's big, so you have to wait a bit...

My original comment said:- "still no talk about whether or not keepers will be allowed to commit a foul for the first time since like 2012" so i suggest you read a bit more carefully going forward friend. Pleased to see the mods on here are as polite as ever

Edited September 4 by jcw163

[Jeffdekker]

6 minutes ago, davehanson said:

I said what I did in the post above, but for the record yes I usually started off as an international manager before moving to a club role. So for me this is quite a big feature of the game removed.

And I can’t see why - maybe someone can explain in easy to understand terms - why the international side could just not have stayed the same as it is now? It wasn’t great I accept that, but yes, I would much rather have had it in as it was in FM 24/23/22/21/20 etc than not in at all

Like XaW said, they have to rewrite the source code of the game for Unity, therefor they either had to rewrite it and push the delay further, or remove it to completely revamp it and hopefully comes back in FM26 fancy. 
But to justify the data of only 5.6% playing it, is something that bugs me, like you said it has been neglected for years, and if they revamped it sooner, more people would have played it. 

[dℍaisa]

Just release the game next year. jeez. "We'll remove everything".

[El Payaso]

33 minutes ago, XaW said:

This is in the game already....Here is a gif from FM23...

 

Hmm, not sure if a handball counts as a foul. I think the op was talking about keepers making fouls on the opposition players which is quite common source of penalties in real life. 

[Dbuk1]

Just charge double price next year and make a good game please.  P.s that means scrap release 

Edited September 4 by Dbuk1

[dℍaisa]

On 29/06/2024 at 08:22, dℍaisa said:

It appears that Sports Interactive (SI) has been removing less-used features instead of addressing thier issues, as evidenced by the removal of shouts. This trend is causing me to worry that international management might be the next feature on the chopping block.

LOL I am a time traveller. 😂 

[XaW]

Just now, ForTheLoveOfTheGame said:

It’s important for immersion. 

Wouldn’t surprise me if height is removed next year now…

Fair enough. Though height actually have an impact on the match, as a taller player wouldn't need to jump to reach a ball for instance, so I see no need for that to be removed. But I guess this was just hyperbole to make a point...

Just now, davehanson said:

So, 2 things - the first I can't answer. How much time would it take to make international management playable? There are no real 'added' features in and around it - that's the point people have been making for years anyway. You might know more than me, I now nothing about game coding etc - freely happy to admit it, but this doesn't seem like something that should take a long time.

Secondly - and I strongly supported this last year - we were effectively told last year we were getting a more polished version of FM23 for FM24. No real features added (I think the ability to transfer a saved game file from FM23 to FM24 was the only one) as the team were fully concentrating on making FM25 the best it can be. Now we are being told that there is not the time to do that. We have 'put up' with by and large the same game for 2 years - and SI have said FM24 was their best selling game ever - and now we are being told there just isn't the time to even keep features that we in the last 20 years worth of FM. Do you not see how shockingly bad that looks?

I don't know how much time, I have no background knowledge other than working in software development myself and knowing the game. Moving code from framework to framework can be a quick job or a horrible mess, everything depending on what you move between and how your code is written. It appears to me that it would be a massive job, so it seems the return on the investment is not worth it for SI.

I agree, I think SI should spend much more time fixing features than adding new ones, so no complaints on the other point.

[jimbo22]

2 minutes ago, Micho21 said:

In any case, it would be appreciated if they publish a development update on adding new features rather than another one about removing the old ones. Just for keeping a bit of optimism alive

The worry is that a "big" feature for this is the Premier League license that lets be honest people fix before they even open the game. So the only thing, so far, to look forward to is a new game engine and look. The game will sell because its the only option if you want to play this type of game but if that is the only feature they are willing to talk about they need new people with new ideas in high positions at SI.

[kiwityke1983]

35 minutes ago, XaW said:

Quick recap:

- Release date is late November
- FM25 will remove international management (to be brought back in FM26)
- Weight will be removed from player profiles
- Those FMFC members who have offered to come to SI Towers and test the game will be contacted shortly, but the times will be a bit later than previously thought.

More info will come late September, that will include more details about the game.

As one of the 5.6% of people who played international management my disappointment knows no bounds and my day is ruined!

On a more serious note to be fair international management is so hilariously under baked it may as well not exist.

As for the weight being removed I don't particularly care, I just assumed it was just a cosmetic stat anyway.

The delay is fair enough I'd rather wait for a playable game than a bug riddled one.

It is however another negative and disappointing update for FM25, a delay and more things being removed.

So let's hope the gameplay reveal in September is a good one, because I'd be lying if I said I wasn't more than slightly worried for FM25 at this point.

I've owned every version of CM/FM so I hope this isn't the first one to break my 32 year streak!

It's as unthinkable to me as supporting the massives!

[we88y]

Just now, XaW said:

Honest question; What impact do you think weight actually have in the game? Other than as a number on the profile?

Nothing in terms of gameplay. Personally, it helps me visualise the type of player, especially with regens where there is no real life knowledge.

Height enables me to know if the players are short or tall at a glance and weight allows me to understand the physicality of the player. Without the weight information, I would need to judge between height, jumping reach and strength to get an overall feeling of their physical presence. For example, if I told you about a tall forward with great strength and incredible jumping reach attributes you wouldn't necessarily think of a player with Cristiano Ronaldo's physique but more likely more of a target forward type player whereas seeing their weight gives me additional clues to the overall picture.

[whatsupdoc]

Personally the only 3 things I really care about are the ME, the AI and scouting. The graphics have never been what FM is about.

Is pressing with an unsuitable team still going to be OP?

Is off the ball movement going to impacted more by attributes like stamina, work rate, off the ball etc?

Are DoF's and other staff still going to have strange decision making?

Will managers with non-meta styles like Pep work better?

etc etc

Edited September 4 by whatsupdoc

[HUNT3R]

5 minutes ago, Costav said:

The weight is the mass a player needs to "transport" when moving/running...I do believe that, if physics in the game is expressed properly, between two players with same acceleration and pace the one who weights less will be fastest.

I'd argue that Agility (how quickly a player can change direction) and Balance, which is used in quite a few areas, covers that.