FM 25 DEVELOPMENT UPDATE

[Mars_Blackmon]

6 hours ago, XaW said:

That's why I asked for clarification, as I've yet to see anything about it. And I don't think throwing in random statements like that, with an underhand accusation of SI "pandering" to some unknown stakeholders, are arguing a case in good faith without showing any proof of it. Hell, I know other games have been paid off to do a lot of things by various sponsorships, but things like this should need proof, not just wild accusations.

Lies or trolling does not make for a good climate for discussing things, the same goes for creating paper tigers just to tear them down, and I'm done letting it go now. Some people are seemingly really triggered about women's football. Now, I don't know what they are so afraid of, or why the misogyny is so deep that they have to react, but here we are. Personally, I don't care much for women's football other than the world cup, but I will try it out when it comes along to see how it works, perhaps I will like it, perhaps it will be a part of the game I ignore, like quite a few others, I don't know. Would really have loved to do the women's international side though...

Saying that women’s football was a priority for FM 25 + Unity because there are possible stakeholders is not an accusation when it is written in their own blog.
 

Words have meaning and using “accusation” suggests I am saying that SI was extorted…Good grief.

[Dbuk1]

4 minutes ago, Mars_Blackmon said:

Saying that women’s football was a priority for FM 25 + Unity because there are possible stakeholders is not an accusation when it is written in their own blog.
 

Words have meaning and using “accusation” suggests I am saying that SI was extorted…Good grief.

Where is the stake holder section in the blog?

[scythian12]

2 minutes ago, decapitated said:

I really know nothing about the unity engine apart from what I've read on this forum and some of that can be contradictory. I thus ask: What are the potential advantages of updating to Unity in simple terms? Is it keeping up with more powerful laptops/desktop capabilities? better in-match graphics? Being able to play with more active leagues? FM25 being much faster than FM24? I'm looking forward to the Late September reveal announcement, so I'm wondering what the possibilities might be?

The PC gaming master race credentials in me would say in an insulting manner: catering to dirty console peasants.

It is easier for the programmers to release the product on multiple platforms. (And crucially, also develop the game on, fix bugs etc for these varying platforms at the same time)

But it being more ubiquitously available and used throughout the industry, there is also quite a few 3rd-party extensions / libraries, e. g. SI can more easily licence / use a physics, face, whatever model if they so desire.

[davehanson]

37 minutes ago, -Jef- said:

People using EAFC24/FIFA 24 to put down women in FM is really something else.

 

Firstly EAFC sales are down cos the gameplay is bad, it is pay to win structured, has lots of bugs and issues with the game. This year we had 2 issues with "unintended" weekend league (weekly tournament) rewwards with Mbappe/Dembele being in every pack on Friday and then it was "corrected" to basically non-existent. And then there was the MLS SBC (crafting challenge) where you was basically guaranteed 97 rated Messi card. It was fixed after about 45 minutes. That's the main issue with decline in EA FC. And regardless of that EA are still making more and more money from the game/mtx.

 

Regarding women in EA FC and the alleged 4% or whatever it was for the achievement. You have to understand that barely anyone plays career more, play now, quick play or whatever is the name of the friendlies offline mode. That's where the achievement comes from. Almost everyone plays Ultimate Team (FUT) and in FUT there were multiple women players that are staples in the FUT for the year. I have learned so much about players, teams etc through the game and so have millions of others. I have 500 hours in EA FC 24 and do not have the achievement that I play with women in the game. But what I do have is 1000 games with Mia Hamm, 700 games with Wendy Renard, 300 games with Rolfo, Hansen, Pina, Bonmati, Alexia Putellas etc. I could recognise and tell you where about 50+ women play and their positions. Could I do that a year ago? Absolutely not. Before this I truly only knew of one female football player but just because she is famous locally.

 

And I will dabble into women's management absolutely because it is something new, something fun.

Just to be clear, seen as how I was the last one to bring up EAFC24 - I am NOT using it to bring down women in FM24. I have never said anything negative or derogatory regarding the Women's game being represented in any football game.

What I did say was that their inclusion in EAFC24 had not had a positive effect on sales for the game. That may not be the case - FM might open up markets - I was just questioning where they saw these markets was all.   

[spursfan]

6 minutes ago, scythian12 said:

The PC gaming master race credentials in me would say in an insulting manner: catering to dirty console peasants.

It is easier for the programmers to release the product on multiple platforms. (And crucially, also develop the game on, fix bugs etc for these varying platforms at the same time)

But it being more ubiquitously available and used throughout the industry, there is also quite a few 3rd-party extensions / libraries, e. g. SI can more easily licence / use a physics, face, whatever model if they so desire.

Yeah that and better graphics apparently, likely faster gameplay, easier navigation -- easier to maintain hopefully. 
I suspect the market would really explode positively if and when mobile does come on board (not yet in 2025 unfortunately, but international management will still be available on mobile).

[GIMN]

1 minute ago, decapitated said:

I really know nothing about the unity engine apart from what I've read on this forum and some of that can be contradictory. I thus ask: What are the potential advantages of updating to Unity in simple terms? Is it keeping up with more powerful laptops/desktop capabilities? better in-match graphics? Being able to play with more active leagues? FM25 being much faster than FM24? I'm looking forward to the Late September reveal announcement, so I'm wondering what the possibilities might be?

I can only speak in general terms, as I don't know SI's internal machinations, but there are two main elements here.

1) The need for change.  As with any piece of software, it's difficult to predict the future with any accuracy.  You will build it with the intent of being able to add new features along the way, but you cannot be certain even 5 years into the future what those features will be.  As you bolt on new features to the existing foundations, it becomes exponentially harder to continue adding.  Then there's technological changes that your system isn't built to make use of, and capacity - that your system no longer can hold everything that you want.

Like an old PC.  It has a DVD drive, and 2 USB ports.  That's perfectly fine.  But now you no longer use DVDs, and you have 10 peripheries that require USB.  You've been getting by with adapters, and your PC still works, but it's unable to use modern technology.  When you go to buy a new PC, you will look for requirements that match your needs (with a slight eye on the future).

2) Which brings us to the choice of Unity.  You know you need to change, because what you have currently has no long-term future.  You can do the same as before and build it in-house.  This gives you full control.  But it slows everything down.  The software is unique, so you can't access external help for troubleshooting.  Recruitment is tough because anyone you hire will have a steep learning curve to familiarise themselves with your systems.  Or, you can use a third party.  Where-in you give up a little bit of freedom, to address those other issues.  The more widespread the third-party platform, the larger a pool of developers you can hire from.

Like buying a new PC.  You can build it all yourself, but you'll have a lot more to do when it arrives until it is up and running.  And if you don't have the knowledge to build it yourself, you're hoping that you can find someone who can help.  Or you can buy it prebuilt.  It may be a little more expensive, but when it arrives you can set it up relatively quickly, because you have leveraged the knowledge of the people you brought it from by getting them to construct it.

Why they chose Unity over another option?  That's something only SI can answer.

[wazzaflow10]

45 minutes ago, scythian12 said:

The PC gaming master race credentials in me would say in an insulting manner: catering to dirty console peasants.

As a partial member of this I'd say catering more to mobile is the bigger issue. Modern mobile games have ruined a lot of game development in my opinion. Everyone is trying to make the next candy crush or clash of clans or whatever dumb p2w gameplay loop mode they can think of.

Built for console games have their own space that's fun at least and thre's something to be said for just being able to boot up a console without hassle. I wouldn't play a designed for pc game on console though. I don't know how someone plays FM with a controller if that's what they're doing. 

I tried FM mobile for the 15 mins I had it simultaneously with the netflix subscription and couldn't get into it.

[wazzaflow10]

6 minutes ago, Birdman10piyu said:

Of course, you can't say anything about women's football or people lose it.

It's not that people put women's football down. It's more so, we just don't care about it, you can't argue that. Barely anyone cares about women's Football. How often do you hear "ohh ya did you see  the Women's Man City yesterday??? What a game!!!!" Probably never.

No one is bashing it and it's such an after thought that we don't even consider it. Does that mean Im putting the league down? 

To top it off. The narrative we're all reading..

"We cut NT management and added Women's Football" so of course people are annoyed.. "oh and we removed the weight attribute to accommodate the women. "

So now, we have to play by their rules? We had this series and enjoyed it for decades and now that we're including women "we don't want our weight shown..." Fk off. It doesn't seem like much but what's going to come next??? "FM26 new feature!!! We've added pronouns and 10 different genders to choose from" wow now I can roleplay as Xer Josephina Mourhino 

 

get this woke sh*t away from FM.

yeah for years boys were able to buy/sell/develop their favorite players. Poor Suzie should never get to do the same with her favorite women's player because its "woke"? Did you protest when Viv Anderson was called up too? Or are you old enough to have protested Arthur Wharton and Walter Tull as well?

[Jonthedon26]

19 minutes ago, wazzaflow10 said:

As a partial member of this I'd say catering more to mobile is the bigger issue. Modern mobile games have ruined a lot of game development in my opinion. Everyone is trying to make the next candy crush or clash of clans or whatever dumb p2w gameplay loop mode they can think of.

Built for console games have their own space that's fun at least and thre's something to be said for just being able to boot up a console without hassle. I wouldn't play a designed for pc game on console though. I don't know how someone plays FM with a controller if that's what they're doing. 

I tried FM mobile for the 15 mins I had it simultaneously with the netflix subscription and couldn't get into it.

I agree with what you are saying! I have purchased several designed for pc games on console over the years and I simply cannot get into them the way I can on the PC. Sudden Strike, Tropico, FM, all of those games I have played and not enjoyed on console but I do on PC. 

[Birdman10piyu]

12 minutes ago, wazzaflow10 said:

yeah for years boys were able to buy/sell/develop their favorite players. Poor Suzie should never get to do the same with her favorite women's player because its "woke"? Did you protest when Viv Anderson was called up too? Or are you old enough to have protested Arthur Wharton and Walter Tull as well?

Yea, I bet poor Suzie is absolutely dying to play Football Manager. 

Again, I never said I HAD anything against Women's Football. If you took time to read my post, you'd see that my argument you'd see that I'm saying, it's not a big priority in majority of the playerbases' eyes

Edited September 11 by Birdman10piyu

[spursfan]

34 minutes ago, wazzaflow10 said:

As a partial member of this I'd say catering more to mobile is the bigger issue. Modern mobile games have ruined a lot of game development in my opinion. Everyone is trying to make the next candy crush or clash of clans or whatever dumb p2w gameplay loop mode they can think of.

Built for console games have their own space that's fun at least and thre's something to be said for just being able to boot up a console without hassle. I wouldn't play a designed for pc game on console though. I don't know how someone plays FM with a controller if that's what they're doing. 

I tried FM mobile for the 15 mins I had it simultaneously with the netflix subscription and couldn't get into it.

Suppose you can ask here:-

and here for console:-
https://community.sports-interactive.com/forums/forum/135-fm-console-and-fm-touch-general-discussion/

[spursfan]

6 minutes ago, Birdman10piyu said:

Yea, I bet poor Suzie is absolutely dying to play Football Manager. 

Again, I never said I HAD anything against Women's Football. If you took time to read my post, you'd see that my argument you'd see that I'm saying, it's not a big priority in majority of the playerbases' eyes

Would be good to say it as such; it reads really different first time round imo 

[Novem9]

1 час назад, decapitated сказал:

I really know nothing about the unity engine apart from what I've read on this forum and some of that can be contradictory. I thus ask: What are the potential advantages of updating to Unity in simple terms? Is it keeping up with more powerful laptops/desktop capabilities? better in-match graphics? Being able to play with more active leagues? FM25 being much faster than FM24? I'm looking forward to the Late September reveal announcement, so I'm wondering what the possibilities might be?

Many games in different genres are coming out on Unity. This will provide FM with better graphics, interface and processing speed (depends on the developers of course). One of the alarming things is that Cities Skylines work on Unity too, and practice has shown that this engine is not very good at simultaneously processing a large number of objects (city residents). The situation with FM is somewhat different, footballers and staff do not need to be processed in real time, since FM is a kind of turn-based RPG. Therefore, switching to Unity is a great step. The question is in the number of developers, since porting the game is not the most trivial task.

[Junkhead]

44 minutes ago, Birdman10piyu said:

Of course, you can't say anything about women's football or people lose it.

It's not that people put women's football down. It's more so, we just don't care about it, you can't argue that. Barely anyone cares about women's Football. How often do you hear "ohh ya did you see  the Women's Man City yesterday??? What a game!!!!" Probably never.

No one is bashing it and it's such an after thought that we don't even consider it. Does that mean Im putting the league down? 

To top it off. The narrative we're all reading..

"We cut NT management and added Women's Football" so of course people are annoyed.. "oh and we removed the weight attribute to accommodate the women. "

So now, we have to play by their rules? We had this series and enjoyed it for decades and now that we're including women "we don't want our weight shown..." Fk off. It doesn't seem like much but what's going to come next??? "FM26 new feature!!! We've added pronouns and 10 different genders to choose from" wow now I can roleplay as Xer Josephina Mourhino 

 

get this woke sh*t away from FM.

Respecting people based on their choices and gender isn't "woke".

It's just something that reasonable, well adjusted grown ups do.

 

[-Jef-]

10 minutes ago, spursfan said:

Would be good to say it as such; it reads really different first time round imo 

Reads the same now as well lmao.

 

I am just gonna refrain from commenting anything cos am gonna get banned but I am so glad sometimes Miles is who Miles is and he put women in the game despite the enormous online backlash.

[wazzaflow10]

10 minutes ago, Birdman10piyu said:

Yea, I bet poor Suzie is absolutely dying to play Football Manager. 

Again, I never said I HAD anything against Women's Football. If you took time to read my post, you'd see that my argument you'd see that I'm saying, it's not a big priority in majority of the playerbases' eyes

There's probably at least a dozen ways to say "I'm happy for women to be included but I won't be playing it because it doesn't interest me" rather than what you said.

But sure .

[forameuss]

Taking the singular that YOU are not interested, fair enough. Desperately trying to tell everyone that noone will be interested...yeah, that's telling.

[themadsheep2001]

4 minutes ago, forameuss said:

Taking the singular that YOU are not interested, fair enough. Desperately trying to tell everyone that noone will be interested...yeah, that's telling.

It always is. 

[XaW]

2 hours ago, Mars_Blackmon said:

Saying that women’s football was a priority for FM 25 + Unity because there are possible stakeholders is not an accusation when it is written in their own blog.
 

Words have meaning and using “accusation” suggests I am saying that SI was extorted…Good grief.

Stop moving the goalposts and show me proof of there being stakeholders outside SI deciding women's football has priority. Do I need to quote your message where you said that again?

[Weller1980]

With FM25 release date being pushed out surly now is a good time to extend the public beta?

The normal 2-3 weeks is simply not enough time to make any meaningful feedback and changes and with the new UI and Graphics engine a longer public beta period is surly a good thing?

Many years ago we used to get a demo 2 weeks prior to release and then it changed to beta release 2 weeks prior and I've always thought its not enough time and to me seems like a token gesture from SI to play the game early at risk of bugs. Some bugs are so deep routed and they are not discovered until you've completed a couple seasons.

[scythian12]

1 hour ago, Jonthedon26 said:

I agree with what you are saying! I have purchased several designed for pc games on console over the years and I simply cannot get into them the way I can on the PC. Sudden Strike, Tropico, FM, all of those games I have played and not enjoyed on console but I do on PC. 

 

Very offtopic, but Firaxis are bringing out Civ VII on every console that is, was or going to be (like the Switch). An am befuddled how one plays a strategy game on a console. I shall continue revering our prophet and saviour Gaben.

[themadsheep2001]

19 minutes ago, Weller1980 said:

With FM25 release date being pushed out surly now is a good time to extend the public beta?

The normal 2-3 weeks is simply not enough time to make any meaningful feedback and changes and with the new UI and Graphics engine a longer public beta period is surly a good thing?

Many years ago we used to get a demo 2 weeks prior to release and then it changed to beta release 2 weeks prior and I've always thought its not enough time and to me seems like a token gesture from SI to play the game early at risk of bugs. Some bugs are so deep routed and they are not discovered until you've completed a couple seasons.

There is always a relatively long running and fairly widespread closed alpha/beta. Extending the public beta only works if you get the buy in from it compared to the work it takes. The last time they did it that was not the case. Remains to he seen if that feeling has changed for SI

[XaW]

22 minutes ago, Weller1980 said:

With FM25 release date being pushed out surly now is a good time to extend the public beta?

The normal 2-3 weeks is simply not enough time to make any meaningful feedback and changes and with the new UI and Graphics engine a longer public beta period is surly a good thing?

Many years ago we used to get a demo 2 weeks prior to release and then it changed to beta release 2 weeks prior and I've always thought its not enough time and to me seems like a token gesture from SI to play the game early at risk of bugs. Some bugs are so deep routed and they are not discovered until you've completed a couple seasons.

Probably why SI asked for people who wanted to test the game as SI Towers through FMFC, as referenced to in the last update. I think they are trying out something new to see if that helps get reports in, I guess.

The issue with doing this is that they only get a good result if the people who participate report issues in a good way. Many people here at the forum who have reported bugs and given well thought out constructive criticism have been asked to help out in various ways before, and that will hopefully continue going forward. So the game isn't just being tested 2 weeks before release.

[Mars_Blackmon]

47 minutes ago, XaW said:

Stop moving the goalposts and show me proof of there being stakeholders outside SI deciding women's football has priority. Do I need to quote your message where you said that again?

I guess I have to put this in simple terms..:

1 option comes with sponsorship (and partnership) the other does not, so the latter is more of a priority to not be delayed for feature versions on the game…

 

this is on the cusp of you (or maybe someone else) suggesting that it would be easier to start with women’s football rather than other modes considering if all things were equal because of new code(IM would be new code as well) I said it had nothing to do with that, and my claim is based on the results and facts. Despite starting with WF, and promised of not having features missing, we are delayed with features missing so started with WF was not easir or “made more sense”

 

bit to mention there was no original date of when WF would be implemented. They are rushing at it results of what we have now. As if they need to meet a deadline..,

Edited September 11 by Mars_Blackmon

[XaW]

4 minutes ago, Mars_Blackmon said:

I guess I have to put this in simple terms..:

1 option comes with sponsorship (and partnership) the other does not, so the latter is more of a priority to not be delayed for feature versions on the game…

this is on the cusp of you suggesting that it would be easier to start with women’s football rather than other modes considering if all things were equal. O said it had nothing to do with that, and my claim is based on the results and facts. Despite starting with WF, and promised of not having features missing, we are delayed with features missing so started with WF was not easir or “made more sense”

Lets try this again. You can't say you write facts when you don't back them up. I haven't claimed my suggestion was facts, only a way it could have worked. You have said SI are pandering to stakeholders, and I still wait for how they have pandered and to whom. Show something at least, some source other than "I read it somewhere". Please, just show evidence for your claims or let it go...

[themadsheep2001]

SI stated well over a year ago that womens football would be coming in FM25. This isnt out of the blue. 

[Mars_Blackmon]

6 minutes ago, XaW said:

Lets try this again. You can't say you write facts when you don't back them up. I haven't claimed my suggestion was facts, only a way it could have worked. You have said SI are pandering to stakeholders, and I still wait for how they have pandered and to whom. Show something at least, some source other than "I read it somewhere". Please, just show evidence for your claims or let it go...

Do you know what pander mean? Some of y’all are stuck in your “men hate wonen” echo chambers that y’all are ignoring nuances.

[Mars_Blackmon]

6 minutes ago, themadsheep2001 said:

SI stated well over a year ago that it womens football would be coming in FM25

Yea when they gave us a throwaway game. I’m 2021, there wasn’t a timeframe to the public, We didn’t even k it about unity prior to last year…

Edited September 11 by Mars_Blackmon

[themadsheep2001]

2 minutes ago, Mars_Blackmon said:

Yea when they gave us a throwaway game. I’m 2021, there wasn’t a timeframe to the public,

And im quoting 2023, so you’re quoting information that's been superceded and therefore is outdated. 

[ajw10]

2 hours ago, Birdman10piyu said:

Yea, I bet poor Suzie is absolutely dying to play Football Manager. 

Again, I never said I HAD anything against Women's Football. If you took time to read my post, you'd see that my argument you'd see that I'm saying, it's not a big priority in majority of the playerbases' eyes

sounds like you have something against women's football being accessible on a video game.

[TioPatinhax]

I apologize if this has already been asked, but more or less around when we will we have a glimpse of the new match engine?

[themadsheep2001]

4 minutes ago, TioPatinhax said:

I apologize if this has already been asked, but more or less around when we will we have a glimpse of the new match engine?

Not sure, unless ive missed it. Hopefully more updates to follow end of the month, which fits in with their usual start of information drop 2 months out. I will ask and see if there is any info

[XV20]

How this thread has evolved

 1- Mockup UI (everyone hates it)

2- Touchline shouts ( SI should fix it not remove it)

3-  Int'l management ( 50/50)

4- WOMEN FOOTBALL ( SI have crossed the line, i'm not playing this game again)

[TioPatinhax]

4 minutos atrás, themadsheep2001 disse:

Not sure, unless ive missed it. Hopefully more updates to follow end of the month, which fits in with their usual start of information drop 2 months out. I will ask and see if there is any info

Thank you very much, looking forward to it.

[Dbuk1]

Im intrigued to see based on Miles blog post about being laser focused and delivering woman’s football in the most authentic way possible what this actually means? This leads me to believe that it cannot simply be a new database and off you go. So people suggesting it is like adding a playable league must be incorrect. Or Miles is blowing smoke? 

Edited September 11 by Dbuk1

[jmlima]

3 hours ago, Novem9 said:

...This will provide FM with better graphics, interface and processing speed (depends on the developers of course). ...

It has been very well explained before but it's worth repeating, the single biggest advantage of unity is multi-platform deployment and portability. Unity by itself brings no performance or visual enhancement. Prob quite the opposite in some areas, just wait until you are saddled with updates that are the same size as the install.

[Novem9]

1 час назад, XV20 сказал:

How this thread has evolved

1- Mockup UI (everyone hates it)

2- Touchline shouts ( SI should fix it not remove it)

3- Int'l management ( 50/50)

4- WOMEN FOOTBALL ( SI have crossed the line, i'm not playing this game again)

Looks like a quiz show. Women's Football 500, get your question

[Novem9]

1 минуту назад, jmlima сказал:

It has been very well explained before but it's worth repeating, the single biggest advantage of unity is multi-platform deployment and portability.

I didn't ask to be kept informed 

[Lord Rowell]

I find it really interesting, in a depressing way, the amount of people on here who think they can speak for others re. lack of interest in women's football in FM, and women's football in general. To you all, how on earth would you know this? Oh and please don't reply with "the amount of disinterested comments here" - because I doubt the population who post here are a representative slice of the community.

FWIW, my views on the whole development update so far:

1. Very excited for women's football coming to FM and it is the single major reason I will buy FM25 - a women's save will likely be my first one, esp. if I can play as Sunderland in the Women's Championship.
2. For context, I am a man, who has played FM / CM since about 1996, CM2 I think was my first one.
3. I predict more people will be playing women's leagues in FM than the doom mongers here predict, by quite some distance, and over time that will grow.
4. Obviously a shame international management not present for FM25 but I understand the rationale, and if it comes back stronger for FM26, that's a good long-term decision
5. Really great that SI now have the Premier League licensing, this alone would have been a major selling point for FM versions, in the same way the Bundesliga/German national team and the J-League has been - this seems to have been forgotten about
6. The removal of weight as a stat is no big deal to me personally, I suspect I understand the reasons which have been commented on in various places in this thread and I'm very comfortable with that. I think it was badly communicated by Miles Jacobsen though.
7. Appreciate the frustration some feel re. temporary removal of other features (shouts, versus mode, create a club) which leads me to point 8
8. Communications and expectations - did SI expect too much of their workforce in meeting the November 2025 release deadline? Should certain issues have been communicated much earlier to the fanbase?

But, all in all, I think we're gaining much more than we're losing, and long-term its win-win. So I'm still very positive about FM25 and looking forward to destroying 1000s more hours of my life on it
 

Edited September 11 by Lord Rowell
typos only

[talhak]

7 hours ago, decapitated said:

I really know nothing about the unity engine apart from what I've read on this forum and some of that can be contradictory. I thus ask: What are the potential advantages of updating to Unity in simple terms? Is it keeping up with more powerful laptops/desktop capabilities? better in-match graphics? Being able to play with more active leagues? FM25 being much faster than FM24? I'm looking forward to the Late September reveal announcement, so I'm wondering what the possibilities might be?

That’s a great question! While the "right" answer involves some technical details, I’ll do my best to explain it in a way that’s easier to understand:

• Unity supports multiple platforms, including iOS, Android, PC, consoles, and WebGL.
• Unity is regularly updated with new features, bug fixes, and improvements (who does not want to benefit from the latest technologies and performance optimizations!).
• Unity comes with a comprehensive set of built-in tools like physics engines, rendering systems, and UI frameworks that save time and effort compared to building these from scratch.
• Additionally, the Unity Asset Store offers a vast selection of ready-made assets, plugins, and tools, eliminating the need to create everything from scratch (no need to reinvent the wheel!).
• Unity also provides profiling tools, frame-rate management, and other performance optimization features to ensure games run efficiently on various hardware configurations.

[santy001]

To follow on from @talhak in terms of the switch to Unity. FM is currently on an in-house system to the best of my knowledge. Bethesda has the Creation Engine for their internal games, CDProjektRed had the RED engine which they're now retiring. Blizzard has their own internal engine for WoW etc. 

A lot of long standing companies had their own engine because around 20 years ago the industry was in a different place, smaller teams with more intimate knowledge of their engine (since the people creating it are still there) and they'd build their own engines alongside the development of games. 

Unity is one of those that has become sort of an industry norm, people are trained on it and are familiar. Same with Unreal engine. A lot of companies have hit the point where maintaining their internal engines and making the generation leaps forward that we're seeing from off the shelf solutions aren't particularly viable alongside skilling up a workforce to use their own internal engine. Especially when development teams are growing into the hundreds, you can have a fantastic onboarding process but if you've got to get 50+ people through it, then it simply takes time.

For studios working on the likes of a Red Dead Redemption or GTA the long development cycle probably lends itself quite well to that, you can add on an extra year to train staff on in-house systems. But as seen with games like Cyberpunk, it can still have problems even across longer development cycles. You can hire people ready to work on Unity/Unreal etc right now. With an in-house system you need to identify which skills transfer best and simply provide time to get familiar with the quirks of your system. Studios could in theory with in house systems reach a point where the total number of staff familiar with and able to work with an internal system diminishes to a level not particularly viable. How many of us work at companies where there's some piece of software that is used but only a tiny number of people know the intricacies of it because of its age and so few people can pass on that knowledge?

[davehanson]

10 hours ago, Lord Rowell said:

I find it really interesting, in a depressing way, the amount of people on here who think they can speak for others re. lack of interest in women's football in FM, and women's football in general. To you all, how on earth would you know this? Oh and please don't reply with "the amount of disinterested comments here" - because I doubt the population who post here are a representative slice of the community.

FWIW, my views on the whole development update so far:

1. Very excited for women's football coming to FM and it is the single major reason I will buy FM25 - a women's save will likely be my first one, esp. if I can play as Sunderland in the Women's Championship.
2. For context, I am a man, who has played FM / CM since about 1996, CM2 I think was my first one.
3. I predict more people will be playing women's leagues in FM than the doom mongers here predict, by quite some distance, and over time that will grow.
4. Obviously a shame international management not present for FM25 but I understand the rationale, and if it comes back stronger for FM26, that's a good long-term decision
5. Really great that SI now have the Premier League licensing, this alone would have been a major selling point for FM versions, in the same way the Bundesliga/German national team and the J-League has been - this seems to have been forgotten about
6. The removal of weight as a stat is no big deal to me personally, I suspect I understand the reasons which have been commented on in various places in this thread and I'm very comfortable with that. I think it was badly communicated by Miles Jacobsen though.
7. Appreciate the frustration some feel re. temporary removal of other features (shouts, versus mode, create a club) which leads me to point 8
8. Communications and expectations - did SI expect too much of their workforce in meeting the November 2025 release deadline? Should certain issues have been communicated much earlier to the fanbase?

But, all in all, I think we're gaining much more than we're losing, and long-term its win-win. So I'm still very positive about FM25 and looking forward to destroying 1000s more hours of my life on it
 

I agree with most of your points - but can't agree with that. Yes, gaining womens football this year is definitely a plus for those that want to play that game mode. But against losing International Management, touchline shouts, create-a-club, social media, I can't agree that we are gaining much more than we are losing.

Obviously a lot of that will hinge on how the ME develops in and under Unity. If it comes out of the box as a brilliant piece of design then most will be happy. If it doesn't.

[davehanson]

10 hours ago, talhak said:

That’s a great question! While the "right" answer involves some technical details, I’ll do my best to explain it in a way that’s easier to understand:

• Unity supports multiple platforms, including iOS, Android, PC, consoles, and WebGL.
• Unity is regularly updated with new features, bug fixes, and improvements (who does not want to benefit from the latest technologies and performance optimizations!).
• Unity comes with a comprehensive set of built-in tools like physics engines, rendering systems, and UI frameworks that save time and effort compared to building these from scratch.
• Additionally, the Unity Asset Store offers a vast selection of ready-made assets, plugins, and tools, eliminating the need to create everything from scratch (no need to reinvent the wheel!).
• Unity also provides profiling tools, frame-rate management, and other performance optimization features to ensure games run efficiently on various hardware configurations.

Can I ask a 'cynical' question - I know how this is going to sound before I ask it but I have wondered over the last couple of weeks since the announcement.

Does the Unity engine/platform give SI/Sega more opportunities to upsell - DLC etc than their own in-house engine? 

[themadsheep2001]

8 minutes ago, davehanson said:

Can I ask a 'cynical' question - I know how this is going to sound before I ask it but I have wondered over the last couple of weeks since the announcement.

Does the Unity engine/platform give SI/Sega more opportunities to upsell - DLC etc than their own in-house engine? 

It makes no discernable difference tbh. 

[kiwityke1983]

24 minutes ago, davehanson said:

Can I ask a 'cynical' question - I know how this is going to sound before I ask it but I have wondered over the last couple of weeks since the announcement.

Does the Unity engine/platform give SI/Sega more opportunities to upsell - DLC etc than their own in-house engine? 

 

14 minutes ago, themadsheep2001 said:

It makes no discernable difference tbh. 

I genuinely don't see what in FM you could spin off as DLC.

League packs, licenced content, game modes etc wouldn't be massive money spinners as most of that is covered via modding if you are so inclined.

You'd have to pay a team of developers to make DLC with almost no guarantee you'd recoup the cost.

[themadsheep2001]

3 minutes ago, kiwityke1983 said:

 

I genuinely don't see what in FM you could spin off as DLC.

League packs, licenced content, game modes etc wouldn't be massive money spinners as most of that is covered via modding if you are so inclined.

You'd have to pay a team of developers to make DLC with almost no guarantee you'd recoup the cost.

This is the key point. And licensing is very expensive. There's good reason why they havent gone for classic lesgues teams etc, free or otherwise, before. Leave that to your excellent modding community 

[Novem9]

10 часов назад, santy001 сказал:

How many of us work at companies where there's some piece of software that is used but only a tiny number of people know the intricacies of it because of its age and so few people can pass on that knowledge?

I worked in such a company and it is disgusting. Employees coming in need training, employees leaving are excellent specialists with a lot of experience... who also need training, because these internal developments are a thing of the past. 

[Novem9]

40 минут назад, davehanson сказал:

I agree with most of your points - but can't agree with that. Yes, gaining womens football this year is definitely a plus for those that want to play that game mode. But against losing International Management, touchline shouts, create-a-club, social media, I can't agree that we are gaining much more than we are losing.

Obviously a lot of that will hinge on how the ME develops in and under Unity. If it comes out of the box as a brilliant piece of design then most will be happy. If it doesn't.

There may not be a direct connection between women's football and international football at all. International football has been in decline the entire time women's football has not been on the agenda.

Btw, why did many people decide that women's football was perfectly polished in FM25?  Perhaps all the energy went not to this, but to new stickers on a manager's face. 

[jmlima]

17 minutes ago, kiwityke1983 said:

 

I genuinely don't see what in FM you could spin off as DLC.

...

You'd have to pay a team of developers to make DLC with almost no guarantee you'd recoup the cost.

I mean, entirely agree with economic viability but... cannot remember which football management was that had a basic stat analysis pack and you could pay (back then was an external thing) to get a full professional stat analysis pack. Right of the top of my head, same could be done with training and create a club. Probably something could be done with scouting. The in game editor is already a DLC and keeps being released so it must sell in sufficient numbers to be worth the hassle and the pile on steam negative reviews it receives every year. 

[davehanson]

29 minutes ago, kiwityke1983 said:

 

I genuinely don't see what in FM you could spin off as DLC.

League packs, licenced content, game modes etc wouldn't be massive money spinners as most of that is covered via modding if you are so inclined.

You'd have to pay a team of developers to make DLC with almost no guarantee you'd recoup the cost.

I can only go by things that I have read - things that SI/Sega have said, maybe not DLC as such, but subscription based services.